GlassEye-Boy posted:

In that case I seems a good theory is that Demandred (using Taim) was working to foil Mesaanas plan (manipulating the tower aes Sedai and the black ajah). Demandred certainly knew where Rand was as he was communicating with the Shaido encouraging them to also attack the Aes Sedai. Demandred and the Dark one probably didn’t want Rand in Tower hands as that reduces the chance of Chaos, and also increases the possibility of Rand being gentled.

Shageletic posted:

Am I remembering wrong, but didn't Elaida not even intend on finding black sisters, but just sisters she hated and the hunt was actually a miscommunication?

GlassEye-Boy posted:

In that case I seems a good theory is that Demandred (using Taim) was working to foil Mesaanas plan (manipulating the tower aes Sedai and the black ajah). Demandred certainly knew where Rand was as he was communicating with the Shaido encouraging them to also attack the Aes Sedai. Demandred and the Dark one probably didn’t want Rand in Tower hands as that reduces the chance of Chaos, and also increases the possibility of Rand being gentled.

mossyfisk posted:

Why do Black Ajah put up with their oaths, anyway? It seems easy to sneak in to use the Oath Rod and they all know how it works.

mossyfisk posted:

Why do Black Ajah put up with their oaths, anyway? It seems easy to sneak in to use the Oath Rod and they all know how it works.

Zore posted:

Lots of reasons I'd imagine. First they wouldn't want to go oathless because that would immediately expose them when they lost/never got the 'ageless' look.

Zore posted:

Second, even if the other Aes Sedai aren't super aware the other Black sisters are and probably keep a closer eye on the Oath Rod.

Zore posted:

Third you actually need someone else to use it, so at that point you'd need multiple Black sisters working together who all trust each other enough not to rat the others out for clout. Which describes roughly zero of the ones we see in the series.

Zore posted:

Fourth, tradition and a chronic lack of imagination.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

Can't unswear without breaking the oath in the first place so you'd have to be really really creative.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

Black Oath #1 : to not betray the shadow until the hour of my death

Vavrek posted:

oh, that's clever. I forget. What are the Black Ajah's oaths?

jng2058 posted:

Whoo, that scene! One of the best in the books.


But yeah, Egwene explicitly wonders what the other two Black Ajah oaths are, but never gets a chance to ask Verin, so I don't think we ever find out.

th3t00t posted:

I don't have the numbers in front of me but I always got the impression that Taim was in his late 20's early 30's and had been channeling for 5 or so years. He was a commoner and only rose to power because he was backed by the shadow. Whereas Logain was early to mid 20's and had been channeling for 2 years or less and was a nobleman who already had power and family connections. We were never shown the extent of Logains knowledge or prowess with the power before his gentling. It was mentioned that Logain was strong, but never that he had knowledge about the power like what Taim had.

quote:

“Let me understand,” Logain said when he lowered the pewter cup. “You want to know what I think of al’Thor’s amnesty?” Some of the sisters shifted on their stools, maybe because he had omitted calling her “Mother,” but more likely because they despised the subject.

“I want your thoughts, yes. Surely you must have some. In Caemlyn with him, you would very likely be given a place of honor. Here, you may be gentled any day. Now. You’ve held off the madness six years, you say. How much chance is there, do you think, that any men who come to him might do as well?”

Spek posted:

Nothing that would prevent them from unswearing, except possibly the first if they were ordered to.

Spoilers up to book 12:

Verin also said she intended to use the oath rod to unswear the shadow's oaths but couldn't find it. I don't remember if it was clear whether she believed she needed to poison herself first, or if the poisoning was a last resort after not finding it.

jng2058 posted:

Re: Verin. She explicitly says that she looked for the Oath Rod first because she had things she wanted to do before dying, but when it was missing only then resorted to the poison.

BigHead posted:

I had to check the wiki, which says that we find out in the Wheel of Time Companion, not the main series.


1) I shall obey all commands given by those placed above me in service to the Great Lord

2) I shall prepare for the day of the Great Lord's return

3) I shall hold close the secrets of the Black Ajah, unto the hour of my death.

Invalid Validation posted:

Not like it matters much since all Aes Sedai just skirt their oaths anyways.

Johnny Joestar posted:

all the stuff about the truth of the oath rod and everything surrounding it is genuinely one of my favorite setting details just because i feel like it helps capture the series as a whole

Libluini posted:

There were Aes Sedai who lived 300+ years. Can you imagine how long they lifespan would have been without the oath road?

Zore posted:

Third you actually need someone else to use it, so at that point you'd need multiple Black sisters working together who all trust each other enough not to rat the others out for clout. Which describes roughly zero of the ones we see in the series.

Chapter 26 of The Path of Daggers posted:

Saerin fingered her knife hilt and eyed them quizzically, not shifting a step. “A puzzle,” she murmured. Suddenly she glided forward, her free hand dipping into Seaine’s lap so quickly that Seaine gasped. She tried to keep the Oath Rod hidden, but the only result was that she ended with Saerin holding the Rod waist high with one hand while she held the other end and a fistful of her skirts. “I enjoy puzzles,” Saerin said.

Seaine let go and adjusted her dress; there seemed nothing else to do.

The appearance of the Rod produced a momentary babble as nearly everyone spoke at once.

“Blood and fire,” Doesine growled. “Are you down here raising new bloody sisters?”

“Oh, leave it with them, Saerin,” Yukiri laughed right on top of her. “Whatever they’re up to, it’s their own business.”

Atop both, Talene barked, “Why else are they sneaking about—together!—if it isn’t to do with the Ajah heads?”

Saerin waved a hand, and after a moment gained quiet. All present were Sitters, but she had the right to speak first in the Hall, and her forty years counted for something, too. “This is the key to the puzzle, I think,” she said, stroking the Rod with her thumb. “Why this, after all?” Abruptly the glow of saidar surrounded her, too, and she channeled Spirit to the Rod. “Under the Light, I will speak no word that is not true. I am not a Dark-friend.”

quote:

In the silence that followed, a mouse sneezing would have sounded loud.

“Am I right?” Saerin said, releasing the Power. She held the Rod out toward Seaine.

For the third time, Seaine retook the Oath against lying, and for the second time repeated that she was not of the Black. Pevara did the same with frozen dignity. And eyes sharp as an eagle’s.

“This is ridiculous,” Talene said. “There is no Black Ajah.”

Yukiri took the Rod from Pevara and channeled. “Under the Light, I will speak no word that is not true. I am not Black Ajah.” The light of saidar around her winked out, and she handed the Rod to Doesine.

Talene frowned in disgust. “Stand aside, Doesine. I for one will not put up with this filthy suggestion.”

“Under the Light, I will speak no word that is not true,” Doesine said almost reverently, the glow around her like a halo. “I am not of the Black Ajah.” When matters were serious, her tongue was as clean as any Mistress of Novices could have wished. She extended the Rod to Talene.

The golden-haired woman started back as from a poisonous snake. “Even to ask this is a slander. Worse than slander!” Something feral moved in her eyes. An irrational thought, perhaps, but that was what Seaine saw. “Now move out of my way,” Talene demanded with all the authority of a Sitter in her voice. “I am leaving!”

“I think not,” Pevara said quietly, and Yukiri nodded slowly in agreement. Saerin did not stroke her knife hilt; she gripped it till her knuckles went white.

Johnny Joestar posted:

all the stuff about the truth of the oath rod and everything surrounding it is genuinely one of my favorite setting details just because i feel like it helps capture the series as a whole

Libluini posted:

There were Aes Sedai who lived 300+ years. Can you imagine how long they lifespan would have been without the oath road?

Johnny Joestar posted:

all the stuff about the truth of the oath rod and everything surrounding it is genuinely one of my favorite setting details just because i feel like it helps capture the series as a whole

Mat Cauthon posted:

I do wonder if any enterprising Aes Sedai (Black ajah or otherwise) every had the idea to use it on rulers or other influential people over the years.

Gwaihir posted:

I think the rod, specifically, only works on people who can channel.

Gwaihir posted:

(yes, because it literally cut their life in half).
I think the companion actually notes the details as far as expected lifespan, and the correlation with strength in the power, where the absolute strongest like Rand or Lanfear would have expected to live for 800 years.

Gnoman posted:

KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

Long time since I've had occasion to open the Big Book of Bad Art (and, jeez, some of this art is really bad).

aparmenideanmonad posted:

LTT was ~400 when he sealed the bore and in the prime of his life. One of the kin is nearly 600. I'm guessing top end OP users with access to Healing could push a millennium.

I might have missed someone else pointing this out, but the Oath Rod is totally usable by one person as we see when the sitters bust in on the Black Ajah hunters:


This is the rest of the scene, pasted in because it's one of my favorite payoff moments in any of the Aes Sedai plotlines:

DarkHorse posted:

I like the implication that Mesaana, posing as Danelle Sedai was able to avoid detection because the Chosen considered themselves distinct from and above darkfriends

Technically correct, the best kind of correct!