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I'm not sure whether much of the movie being characters effectively looking directly into the camera and saying "stop rewatching Evangelion", including Shinji talking about how he needs to make "a world without Evas" as the title cards of every entry in the franchise flash by behind him is annoyingly on the nose or hilarious and charmingly meta. There's a lot in this movie where I liked it but after a bit started to feel like, "yes, Anno, I get it."Crisis posted:Which also undermines the ending of 3.0. I was talking to a fellow goon about this while watching, and he made a good point that Thrice feels like a weird thematic retcon of 3.0. We went from "there's no magic fixes, you have to be smart because people will use you for their own ends, and trying to find a magic fix will actually make things worse" to "the guy who's an obvious manipulator in the last movie was a good guy all along, and yeah you actually can just use the magic spears to fix everything, in fact we can just whip one up right now no problem" and it feels like a jarring shift. You know, a quite literal deus ex machina. :V I ended up wondering if perhaps Anno had felt like he wrote himself into a corner in 3.0 and that was his way out. The camera pointing itself directly at every female character's butt at every opportunity got pretty annoying, too. Also, what was the point of the Key of Nebuchadnezzar? I feel like I'd missed/forgotten something, because it didn't seem to actually make much of a difference. Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 09:39
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 lol, owned
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Aug 16, 2021 09:59
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Jonny 290 posted:it's really interesting because i'm popping around again on the film, mostly in the village scenes, and i want to post screenshots of frames that i love, but it's so much better in motion. I keep having this feeling in the back of my mind that Anno had Miyazaki on speed dial for the first third. The whole first act is just so gorgeous and warm. studio ghibli did provide animation assistance on that segment iirc
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Aug 16, 2021 10:40
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Flesnolk posted:
I think it was mostly just to make gendo a badass demi-god who despite having knowledge beyond the ken of all humanity, still lets his human side win, because love, etc. he could've become an ACKSHUALLY neckbeard about literally every topic but didnt, which is a nice thing to think about if gendo is essentially the Anno stand-in of this movie edit: also, i think plotwise it is supposed to imply that the 4D chess movements performed by Gendo to trap WILLE etc are a result of this newfound knowledge, although I'm not sure I quite buy it as walking into traps is what eva characters do best bicycle fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 10:47
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the spear was hilariously on the nose and people are still misinterpreting it? SHINJI GREW A loving SPINE, IT'S A LITERAL SPINE FROM THE SPACE SHIP. its not magic powers, its loving self confidence!!! christ
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Aug 16, 2021 11:22
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Paper Lion posted:the spear was hilariously on the nose and people are still misinterpreting it? SHINJI GREW A loving SPINE, IT'S A LITERAL SPINE FROM THE SPACE SHIP. its not magic powers, its loving self confidence!!! christ gmo spine
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Aug 16, 2021 11:29
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I don’t care, the Wunder battle ruled and using full rear end battleships loaded with nuclear turbo warheads as missiles was dope as gently caress. Eva has been present throughout more than half my life and I’m happy that it finally has a conclusion I can feel happy about.
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Aug 16, 2021 11:32
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In the original Eva ending Shinji realizes he could have another life without Eva where he is happy. I think it's important that he ends up with someone who wasn't in the original series (particularly not with Asuka), although I agree that Mari didn't get all that much development beyond not being Asuka.
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Aug 16, 2021 11:59
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After all is said and done, who is your waifu?
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Aug 16, 2021 12:11
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After taking a day to sit on it I'm still really satisfied with this film. Some miscellaneous thoughts (light spoilers but tagging just to be safe): -The scene where Asuka force feeds Shinji is still hard to watch. Seeing her berate him for his actions, all the while it being clear that she's projecting her own self loathing onto him. Tiffany Grant did a really good job. -Similarly, the scene where Rei Q first collapses really hit me. Having seen people just collapse like that, I was struck by how realistically sudden it was. Also the scenes with Rei Q were great and the implication that Gendou intentionally arranged it so that she couldn't survive outside Nerv was a big twist of the knife. -When Unit 2 prevents Asuka from stabbing Unit 13, is it possible it was trying to protect Asuka? I know Asuka assumes it's because Unit 2 is afraid but Unit 13 only makes its move once the AT field is down. -Do we know if Mari is a clone or is she definitely the original? -What the gently caress is that weird doll/potato sack thing Rei is holding during her conversation with Shinji
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Aug 16, 2021 13:09
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Nyeehg posted:
At that point, in theory wouldn't Rei and Yui both have been in Unit 1? I thought it was either some weird "Shinji is talking to both Rei and Yui" thing, or considering that the potato baby kinda looked like Asuka's puppet, maybe it was some weird metaphysical representation of Asuka being reborn post-Angelfication?
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Aug 16, 2021 13:26
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Nyeehg posted:After taking a day to sit on it I'm still really satisfied with this film. Some miscellaneous thoughts (light spoilers but tagging just to be safe): Third point: unit 02 may have been afraid and/or it may have been aware that Unit 13 was playing possum, which could link with it wanting to protect asuka, yeah Fourth point: given that fuyutsuki identifies her as mari iscariot, i think it's unlikely that she's a clone. mari was seemingly a friend of yui, gendo and fuyutsuki who turned against them at some point, hence 'iscariot.' how and why she was subjected to the curse of eva is unclear. however, mari DOES have the -nami bit of her surname which does link her to the clone ayanami and shikinami types Fifth point: it's a tsubame doll now, here's an idea. gendo says that shinji's mother had been to the golgotha object. the golgotha object lies in negative space. yui was injected directly into the core of unit 01 and vanished. when the eva pilots enter 'negative plug depth' which is seemingly proximity to the core, they physically vanish and gain amazing capabilities in their evas and strange physiological issues outside of them (no longer needing to eat, for example, or age). is there some interaction between 'negative space' and the 'negative plug depth?' Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 13:28
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Randalor posted:At that point, in theory wouldn't Rei and Yui both have been in Unit 1? I thought it was either some weird "Shinji is talking to both Rei and Yui" thing, or considering that the potato baby kinda looked like Asuka's puppet, maybe it was some weird metaphysical representation of Asuka being reborn post-Angelfication?
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Aug 16, 2021 13:30
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JazzFlight posted:The doll had Toji’s baby’s name on it, so I think it was implying she has all Reis’ memories, like Rei Q’s experiences weren’t lost. I didn't notice Tsubame was written on the doll. That makes a lot more sense.
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Aug 16, 2021 13:47
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JazzFlight posted:The doll had Toji’s baby’s name on it, so I think it was implying she has all Reis’ memories, like Rei Q’s experiences weren’t lost. Oh, I completely missed that. I would ask how Rei got Rei Q's memories, but considering that they were in an area where imagination and reality were both "real", I'm going to settle on "That was the 'real' Rei that all Reis that get Tang'ed become one with after death. Shards of a soul returning to where they came from".
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Aug 16, 2021 13:57
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If I can put on my WELL ASHKULLALY glasses for a minute and miss the point intentionally, Evangelion Anima had an explanation for Rei memories but also its not a good one and I still don't recommend reading Anima. That said, it's funny that one thing that killed Anima for me and made me stop reading actually ended up in 3.0+1.0: The idea Toji still had the Angel in him and they used tech to suppress it. Of course, I think my anguish came from the overly cheery, slice of life tone of that plot point in Anima versuses how its done in 3.0+1.0, which treated the idea with the level of "oh this is hosed" that it warranted.
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Aug 16, 2021 14:43
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Covok posted:If I can put on my WELL ASHKULLALY glasses for a minute and miss the point intentionally, Evangelion Anima had an explanation for Rei memories but also its not a good one and I still don't recommend reading Anima. I think I'm gonna have to read Anima just on the basis that it looks like it's full of bullshit. From what I've heard at least it won't be boring 
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Aug 16, 2021 15:27
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Char posted:Mari is barely a character and more of a clumsy attempt to insert a new character in a story that was already time constrained in retelling old characters. I agree and every line she speaks seems like its designed to make her into otaku bait instead of developing a real human person.
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Aug 16, 2021 15:44
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Jonny 290 posted:it's really interesting because i'm popping around again on the film, mostly in the village scenes, and i want to post screenshots of frames that i love, but it's so much better in motion. I keep having this feeling in the back of my mind that Anno had Miyazaki on speed dial for the first third. The whole first act is just so gorgeous and warm. Honestly, that first third and the upbeat note it ends on generally really feel like Anno is making his case to Miyazaki & Ghibli as a whole that he & the staff at khara can carry the torch now both in spirit, but also very likely literally regarding getting a shot to do Nausicaa sequels, something Anno & Miyazaki have mused on over the years but never actually advanced. Anno is seemingly declaring through 3+1 that he's emotionally ready and aesthetically capable of filling those shoes.
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Aug 16, 2021 15:49
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Nyeehg posted:I think I'm gonna have to read Anima just on the basis that it looks like it's full of bullshit. From what I've heard at least it won't be boring There are 4 (3?) Reis in Anima. One goes to school and lives an ordinary life as an Eva pilot and three sit in geosynchronous orbit with orbital canons to destroy anyone who would attack Nerv. IIRC, this is mainly to stop SEELE from using the UN to attack Nerv again. The Reis share a soul (?) and Rei can move her soul through her clones to operate all of them. I might be getting details wrong. I literally gave up on like Chapter 6 and then read a plot synopsis. It doesn't help Anima is a light novel, which means it honestly feels too light on details and actual writing to hold my attention.
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Aug 16, 2021 15:50
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In the end of 3.0+1.01, when Shinji is talking to Kaworu why does it show flashbacks from 2.0 where Shinji is with Kaji at the ocean restoration plant , but this time replaces Shinji with Kaworu? I watched the new movie on Thursday, then on Saturday rewatched all the rebuilds and the fourth movie again. I've always liked the TV ending and enjoyed this movie more on the second watch.
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Aug 16, 2021 15:56
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I watched the 3+1 when it came out Friday and had three main thoughts: 1) What the technobabble? 2) This is going to make a crazy SRW level. 3) Okay yeah, I like that ending and resolution.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:10
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Hunter Noventa posted:I watched the 3+1 when it came out Friday and had three main thoughts: 1) A lot of technobabble usually gets cutout of the dubs by localizers. This isn't just an Eva thing either. Japanese scripts are kind of dry and have a lot of long, plodding scenes where characters describe boring details like this. I remember Appleseed Exmacina calling this out in their commentary track, saying how often localizers of Japanese media find themselves removing boring exposition dialogue with more character driven pieces to keep the interest of American audiences. For an Eva example, I think there is a scene where Ritsuko literally goes over all the details of a project to Misato whereas the localizers had Ritsuko say the plan was poorly thought out but that she wouldn't bother explaining it because she knew Misato would do it regardless. Studio Kara has been stricter on their dubs recently, especially Eva, and neither Netflix nor Amazon care enough to give any push back.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:17
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Yeah that seems like a really weird and bad thing for a dub director to do.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:31
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Paper Lion posted:the spear was hilariously on the nose and people are still misinterpreting it? SHINJI GREW A loving SPINE, IT'S A LITERAL SPINE FROM THE SPACE SHIP. its not magic powers, its loving self confidence!!! christ Do Japanese people have a similar idiom? Otherwise I don't see it.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:32
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SPACE HOMOS posted:In the end of 3.0+1.01, when Shinji is talking to Kaworu why does it show flashbacks from 2.0 where Shinji is with Kaji at the ocean restoration plant , but this time replaces Shinji with Kaworu? I watched the new movie on Thursday, then on Saturday rewatched all the rebuilds and the fourth movie again. I've always liked the TV ending and enjoyed this movie more on the second watch. The other scenes imply that Kowaru and Kaji took over NERV at some point (along with all the dialog through the film that referenced kaji's sacrifice) so it may just be a different conversation. Kaji clearly liked that place, as he is the one that got the kids there and had goals to restore animal life. I couldn't remember what they talked about in 2.0 so I just took it at face value as a different event
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Aug 16, 2021 16:34
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Covok posted:1) A lot of technobabble usually gets cutout of the dubs by localizers. This isn't just an Eva thing either. Japanese scripts are kind of dry and have a lot of long, plodding scenes where characters describe boring details like this. I remember Appleseed Exmacina calling this out in their commentary track, saying how often localizers of Japanese media find themselves removing boring exposition dialogue with more character driven pieces to keep the interest of American audiences. For an Eva example, I think there is a scene where Ritsuko literally goes over all the details of a project to Misato whereas the localizers had Ritsuko say the plan was poorly thought out but that she wouldn't bother explaining it because she knew Misato would do it regardless. Studio Kara has been stricter on their dubs recently, especially Eva, and neither Netflix nor Amazon care enough to give any push back. I watched the sub myself, it was just a lot of terms being tossed out without much if any explanation like the L-Field or Corization that you could kind of piece together what was meant, but instead of pausing to explain it with even a ten-second aside, it goes on as if we're supposed to either know, or ignore it. I kind of get that explaining the technobabble isn't the point, but it did kind of bug me.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:50
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I would love love love to just have a few scenes that show what the office dynamics are like at a Kaworu and Kaji run NERVE.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:54
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So maybe I missed something, but what exactly was Seele's deal in Rebuild? In the original series, they were just a typical "shadow organization that would leave out the final step in the plan when talking to underlings" group, but in Rebuild, they have technology so advance that it apparently can't be replicated by Nerv/Wille (the black pillars specifically) and we never actually see them. Considering the talk of "forced evolution" being the history of Lilim, were they just supposed to be a precursor race to Humanity that chose to upload themselves so they could guide Humanity and/or see what came after Humanity? They were apparently content to die in 3.33 after the Third Impact.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:56
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Crisis posted:I thought the movie was very messy. It seems like the movie hits a vibe that people were desperate to see from Eva, and so they are willing to overlook the very clumsy execution. For what it’s worth, I get what they were going for in this movie, I don’t hate it or anything, I just wish it had been done better and more thoughtfully. Nah. You're the product of your environment and countless situations outside of your control, but it doesn't make your choices and preferences meaningless. Rei's the same, just with the dial turned up to 11, and always has been. The bit in the movie is the elevator conversation again, except this time Asuka has even less a valid point due to her own circumstances.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:37
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Covok posted:1) A lot of technobabble usually gets cutout of the dubs by localizers. This isn't just an Eva thing either. Japanese scripts are kind of dry and have a lot of long, plodding scenes where characters describe boring details like this. I remember Appleseed Exmacina calling this out in their commentary track, saying how often localizers of Japanese media find themselves removing boring exposition dialogue with more character driven pieces to keep the interest of American audiences. For an Eva example, I think there is a scene where Ritsuko literally goes over all the details of a project to Misato whereas the localizers had Ritsuko say the plan was poorly thought out but that she wouldn't bother explaining it because she knew Misato would do it regardless. Studio Kara has been stricter on their dubs recently, especially Eva, and neither Netflix nor Amazon care enough to give any push back. For the record it’s cool having all the details
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Aug 16, 2021 17:37
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I think it was a weird/cool detail that Asuka was playing Gunpey on her Wonderswan.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:57
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Ultraklystron posted:Honestly, that first third and the upbeat note it ends on generally really feel like Anno is making his case to Miyazaki & Ghibli as a whole that he & the staff at khara can carry the torch now both in spirit, but also very likely literally regarding getting a shot to do Nausicaa sequels, something Anno & Miyazaki have mused on over the years but never actually advanced. Anno is seemingly declaring through 3+1 that he's emotionally ready and aesthetically capable of filling those shoes. welp now I'm going to be disappointed if this doesn't happen
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Aug 16, 2021 18:02
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I mean Asuka's backstory is taken directly from Princess Kushana in the Nausicaa manga. Man I need to re-read the manga, it owns so much.
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Aug 16, 2021 18:31
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Covok posted:There are 4 (3?) Reis in Anima. One goes to school and lives an ordinary life as an Eva pilot and three sit in geosynchronous orbit with orbital canons to destroy anyone who would attack Nerv. IIRC, this is mainly to stop SEELE from using the UN to attack Nerv again. The Reis share a soul (?) and Rei can move her soul through her clones to operate all of them. Wait what? I have so many questions. Where did the 3 new Reis come from? Fairly sure Ritsuko killed all the other Reis when she destroyed the dummy plug system. How can Rei transfer her soul across space? How is SEELE still around? (One Google search later...) Why is there a giant lady Eva with huge tits!? This is so so dumb  So yeah, I just ordered all the volumes available in English. Now I have no expectation it will be good but I'm hoping it'll be a good one to make fun of. Thanks for sorting out my reading for next weekend .
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Aug 16, 2021 19:08
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Nyeehg posted:Why is there a giant lady Eva with huge tits!? This is so so dumb I think it is a reference / homage to the "Fantastic Planet" (La planète sauvage) where the giant aliens who enslaved the humans used even more giant headless naked statues for reproduction
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Aug 16, 2021 19:24
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Was someone driving unit 13 when it rekt Asuka or had NERV just automated it like they do with everything else?
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Aug 16, 2021 19:28
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Nyeehg posted:Wait what? I have so many questions. Where did the 3 new Reis come from? Fairly sure Ritsuko killed all the other Reis when she destroyed the dummy plug system. How can Rei transfer her soul across space? How is SEELE still around? I actually know the answers to the giant Eva question but should I spoil it? Also, there is no other way to put it: they redesign Asuka and really oversexualize her and its creepy. I've heard people compare her redesign in Anima to "bimbofication."
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Aug 16, 2021 19:34
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In the end Gendo is the master manipulator and everyone else is an idiot. Everything Wille does Gendo anticipates. The whole 3rd movie happens because they didnt bother to tell Shinji ANYTHING about what happened so of course he runs off with Rei the first chance they get. Then they know there was 4 ships planned and there were 4 Adams so of course they fly the 4th ship straight to where Gendo was so he can use it and get 01 back. Seriously, does anyone in this show think other than Gendo? Its so laughable how easy Gendos trap was for Wille.
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Aug 16, 2021 19:49
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Zhanism posted:In the end Gendo is the master manipulator and everyone else is an idiot. Everything Wille does Gendo anticipates. The whole 3rd movie happens because they didnt bother to tell Shinji ANYTHING about what happened so of course he runs off with Rei the first chance they get. Considering that the second ship only had the same guns as the Wunder, and the third had to resort to ramming, Wille may have been hoping that they could catch Gendo before he had all three ships airborne.
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Aug 16, 2021 19:57
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