ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: George Rail Road Martin

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pidan: Nov 6, 2012

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

I saw an old quote from GRRM yesterday where he said he based Dorne on a mixture of Wales, Spain, and Palestine. Which left me incredibly confused.

I guess Wales / Palestine is their political role, and Spain the cultural / aesthetic model? But yeah, that's quite the combo to present.

# ? Nov 23, 2021 05:13

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 19:51

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

quote:

�As a child I looked up to my grandfather. I loved visiting him at his house in the country, spending a weekend during summer helping him with the yard and the chickens, and in return he would cook up a grand feast and tell me stories of his adventurous youth. As I nibbled on a piping hot lemoncake he would tell me about his days in the military. He flew fighter jets, even as technology was moving towards drones. The last generation of sky cowboys. He was proud of his exploits, even though he tried to hide it, like the tattoo on his upper bicep. Every time the ace the words 'wild cards' was visible he would pull down his sleeve. I always assumed it was the name of his squadron. Instead of Maverick he was Ace, his wingman was Joker, King, and so on. I wondered if they skipped Queen but I never asked.

My parents went on vacation one summer and so I went to my grandfather's for two weeks. I'd never stayed that long and I thought I could handle it. But I was growing up, fifteen years old, and I started getting restless after four or five days. I'd already explored the house for the umpteenth time, heard all the stories, visited the neighbors... and my grandfather knew it. He knew I liked reading, so he took me into his large library to find a new book. I had just finished The Hobbit and asked about similar books.

"An old book, but a classic," I remember him telling me. "So it's a fantasy you want?"

I nodded in agreement and he lead me over to a bookshelf solely devoted to fantasy. My bad rear end fighter jet grandfather, secretly reading books of elves and dwarves? I giggled a little bit at the thought. He had everything. Sword and sorcery, epic fare like the complete Wheel of Time, modern urban fantasy, the works. So of course I went for Lord of the Rings.

"Are you sure? The style is a bit stuffy. Probably not what you're used to." I was not to be deterred. I knew what he meant. My generation has no attention span, no eye for detail, no imaginative mind. Thanks to technology of course, but I digress. I grabbed the books. He shrugged and turned towards the door.

And as I gave the shelf one last look, I saw something. A shelf on the very bottom, boarded up.

"What's in there, grandpa?"

He spun around. "Don't you worry about that. Nothing for a child to know. Let's go have lunch," he said and marched out of the room. I tore my eyes off the forbidden shelf and followed.

My grandfather at this point was starting to become a touch eccentric. It started after my grandmother's suicide a few years earlier. He started drinking more, but never when I was over. Gambling, too, among other things. Joining mysterious groups in the city, where likeminded individuals could talk and rant about whatever it is they had in common. Two weeks was hard for him to be away from all this, I guess. So the weekend came, and he was going to go into town for a few days, don't tell your parents, help yourself to food, here's some money, the neighbors are home next door. I was feeling pretty old so it was no big deal for me. The money sealed the deal as well. And he was gone with a hug and a wink.

It rained and so I read all day. Tried to, at least. I got to Tom Bombadil, if anyone is wondering. I closed the book after trying to get through those damned songs and went into the library. I browsed, looking for something else that piqued my interest, but my mind kept coming back to the same thought. I kneeled down, examined the boarded up shelf, remembered my grandfather's words, and stepped back. Then I got a hammer from the garage.

Inside were four books of different color, neatly arranged on one side of the shelf. The the other side was empty. What was the big deal, I thought. They're just books. I picked up the first one. It was well-worn, ink along the side of the pages, the spine bent. Intrigued, I began to read...

***

The rest is blurry to me. Three days later my grandfather came home to a quiet house. He found me in the library, those books scattered about. Those glorious books. I remember seeing other things as well. Crows and men made of ice, giants and goats. I was delirious, three days of no sleep and hardly any food and water.

I remember this though: my grandfather bellowing and running to me. He cradled me in his muscular arms, and I could feel the tears wet against my face. His or mine, or both. He told me later I said one thing over and over.

"Are there more? What comes next?"

Clear as day I recall his words back, echoing through the recesses of my shattered young mind.

A whisper: "There's no more. Nothing comes next."

Those words haunt me. Nothing comes next.

***

I was in an institution for six months and got behind in school and had to retake a year. I'd say I was never the same again, but things more or less straightened themselves out. I'm older now, I have a wife and daughter of my own. I've even read Tolkien and respect his work. But in the back of my mind there is always something gnawing...

My grandfather passed away last month. It brings back memories, both good and bad. I guess that's why I'm writing this. A confession of sorts. Something I need to let off my chest so to speak. On his deathbed he kept telling me he was sorry. I never faulted him for what happened. It was my own action. I suspect he never forgave himself, but maybe that was just the dementia. But he said something else. A week before the end he called out in his sleep, "I never meant for her to be one of us." My family asked who he was talking about, what it meant. He whispered "Victoria" and fell silent for the rest of the afternoon. Victoria was my grandmother's name. The rest of the family suspected that he was regretting marrying her or something. Drama ensued. Was it really a suicide? But I knew better. I saw things in a new light.

In my attic there is a safe, padlocked and with a secure code. I know I should throw away my copies. They bring no happiness into my life. But it's hard to let go. I now know what my grandfather felt and why he never got rid of those damned books. Sometimes when I'm home alone, or when I'm drunk and the family is sleeping, I'll creep up those steps and sit in front of the safe. The code sits at the front of my mind and my fingers itch. But every time I slip back down the stairs and into bed without opening it. I know its dangerous and you might say it's a matter of time before something terrible happens again. My wife reads chic lit mostly, and my daughter's been reading Stephanie Meyer's latest quadralogy. The one with the loving leprechauns. I'm okay with that.

Because I never want them to become one of us.

One of us."

# ? Nov 23, 2021 05:25

nine-gear crow: Aug 10, 2013

Every time someone posts a giant wall of text in this thread, my eyes glaze over and I immediately scroll to the bottom to see if "Winnie The Pooh... Targaryen" is there or not.

And I'm always disappointed.

# ? Nov 24, 2021 11:55

Coquito Ergo Sum: Feb 9, 2021

Up to season 4 in my rewatch, and I gotta say that season 2 was a lot worse than I remember it being. It's where you start to see cracks in plot logic, dumbed-down characters that are played straight from their book counterparts, ridiculous Littlefinger, bad dialogue, homophobia/sexism. The taking away of Dany's agency becomes apparent in this too, as they keep giving events from the book to her simp male followers, like giving the Quaithe conversation to Jorah or the Yunkai victory entirely to Daario later on (with her being naked in the scene, of course).

You can sort of feel the writers getting desperate to get to The Red Wedding before the show is possibly cancelled, too. Lots of plot points are blazed through and checked off of a list without making much sense. I remember thinking the whole Qhorin plot was wonky on my first watch (before I'd read the book).

Lots of bad dumb jokes, too, like the line where Daenerys pronounces "Qarth" wrong, which actually kind of doesn't make sense.

# ? Nov 24, 2021 16:57

Collateral: Feb 17, 2010

My Babies.

# ? Nov 25, 2021 14:22

PupsOfWar: Dec 6, 2013

Coquito Ergo Sum posted:

ridiculous Littlefinger,

a lot of people cite Aiden Gillen's scenery-chewing creep performance (and the show-only sexposition scenes) as a big adaptation change, since book Littlefinger is supposedly meant to be friendly and nonthreatening, while Gillen's take on the character is so obviously sinister from the start

I do lay a lot of blame for that on GRRM, though, for giving book Littlefinger such a stereotypical creep description as soon as he shows up in AGOT

# ? Nov 26, 2021 07:18

disaster pastor: May 1, 2007

PupsOfWar posted:

a lot of people cite Aiden Gillen's scenery-chewing creep performance (and the show-only sexposition scenes) as a big adaptation change, since book Littlefinger is supposedly meant to be friendly and nonthreatening, while Gillen's take on the character is so obviously sinister from the start

I do lay a lot of blame for that on GRRM, though, for giving book Littlefinger such a stereotypical creep description as soon as he shows up in AGOT

Yeah, there aren't many characters who are actually more villainous in the show than in the books, so Littlefinger stands out even though it's largely (not completely) an artifact of the books saying "this guy everyone thinks of as charming and witty is actually a huge scheming creep" and the show having to find a way to translate that.

# ? Nov 26, 2021 18:45

Ginette Reno: Nov 18, 2006; How Doers get more done; Fun Shoe

D&D are morons who have no sense of subtlety at all so it's not surprising they handled Littlefinger in such a hamfisted way.

# ? Nov 26, 2021 20:55

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

I mean that was my first impression of Season 2 a decade ago, so not to be :smug:

but yeah I'ma be a little :smug:

about that. We all had a lot more good will for that show than was deserved.

# ? Nov 26, 2021 21:49

Punkin Spunkin: Jan 1, 2010

Really it's the scheming facial hair that gives the game away

# ? Nov 26, 2021 22:14

PupsOfWar: Dec 6, 2013

One thing I've noticed in the fandom since the show ended is people seem way more interested in the Griff/Aegon storyline than they used to be.

When Dance came out it felt like the universal consensus was "this sucks, why are we spending so much time on these nobody characters"

but it seems like since the show ended the way it did, people became more cognizant of the function Aegon likely serves (a problem Dany can't simply overwhelm with her armies, and which strikes at the very legitimacy of her whole claim, seems useful if the plan is for a Dany heel turn)

that or the Aegon=Blackfyre theory has had time to percolate around and people decided it was cool

PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Nov 27, 2021

# ? Nov 27, 2021 02:09

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

PupsOfWar posted:

One thing I've noticed in the fandom since the show ended is people seem way more interested in the Griff/Aegon storyline than they used to be.

When Dance came out it felt like the universal consensus was "this sucks, why are we spending so much time on these nobody characters"

but it seems like since the show ended the way it did, people became more cognizant of the function Aegon likely serves (a problem Dany can't simply overwhelm with her armies, and which strikes at the very legitimacy of her whole claim, seems useful if the plan is for a Dany heel turn)

that or the "Aegon Blackfyre" theory has had time to percolate around and people decided it was cool

It�s called Stockholm Syndrom.

# ? Nov 27, 2021 02:14

mind the walrus: Sep 22, 2006

"How desperate for new ASoIaF content were you?"
"I did fan-theories about Faegon"
"Well, that's not so ba--"
"In 2021"
"Oh honey..."

# ? Nov 27, 2021 03:15

Coquito Ergo Sum: Feb 9, 2021

It's also basically the only thing that gives Varys any sort of motivation.

# ? Nov 27, 2021 03:30

disaster pastor: May 1, 2007

PupsOfWar posted:

One thing I've noticed in the fandom since the show ended is people seem way more interested in the Griff/Aegon storyline than they used to be.

When Dance came out it felt like the universal consensus was "this sucks, why are we spending so much time on these nobody characters"

but it seems like since the show ended the way it did, people became more cognizant of the function Aegon likely serves (a problem Dany can't simply overwhelm with her armies, and which strikes at the very legitimacy of her whole claim, seems useful if the plan is for a Dany heel turn)

that or the Aegon=Blackfyre theory has had time to percolate around and people decided it was cool

As much as I don't care about the Aegon story, it's very much a fundamental part of GRRM's plot, and I feel like a lot of the interest you're seeing is a side effect of realizing how badly the show's plots suffer from just sloppily excising it, rather than finding a logical way to reassign its pieces to keep those plot paths stable. (No, "Varys actually supported Daenerys all along" doesn't count as logical.)

# ? Nov 27, 2021 03:34

Phenotype: Jul 24, 2007; You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.

PupsOfWar posted:

One thing I've noticed in the fandom since the show ended is people seem way more interested in the Griff/Aegon storyline than they used to be.

When Dance came out it felt like the universal consensus was "this sucks, why are we spending so much time on these nobody characters"

but it seems like since the show ended the way it did, people became more cognizant of the function Aegon likely serves (a problem Dany can't simply overwhelm with her armies, and which strikes at the very legitimacy of her whole claim, seems useful if the plan is for a Dany heel turn)

that or the Aegon=Blackfyre theory has had time to percolate around and people decided it was cool

I posted this in the thread a while back, a summary of a theory I saw on Reddit a little after the finale aired:

Phenotype posted:

In one of the earlier books, Daenerys had that prophetic dream about a cloth dragon on sticks with the people cheering, which might have meant Griff (the fake dragon/Targaryen) and Jon Connington's army takes over King's Landing before Daenerys gets there. When she finally arrives she sees another Targaryen has survived and taken what she thought was her birthright, and since Griff has been raised to be a good king, the people love him, and so Daenerys ends up seeing her entire quest was meaningless, her destiny meant nothing. Maybe she finds out Griff is a fake, too, and so it sets the scene for her to lose her mind and burn King's Landing to the ground in a much more fulfilling way than in the show.

The kicker that makes me like this theory so much -- Jon Connington had that scene where he's thinking back to the battle of Stoney Sept, where he and his men went from house to house searching for a wounded Robert Baratheon in hopes of ending Robert's Rebellion. But the search takes too much time, and in the present he wishes he would have done what Tywin Lannister would have done, and just burned the village to the ground. Sure enough, before he finds Robert, he hears the sound of the bells ringing -- and in the present, he curses the sound of the bells -- to announce that Ned Stark's army had arrived, and Robert escapes in the ensuing battle and goes on to kill Rhaegar a couple weeks later. And of course, remember how the TV show had that weird bit about how the King's Landing bells mean open the gates, or something? Possibly Connington is going to flip out or react badly to the bells somehow, helping shape the events leading to Daenerys's snapping and burning the city to the ground.

It all seems to tie together pretty nicely once Griff and Connington are in the mix, you can see foreshadowing and a much more logical and satisfying path to the same ending we saw on screen. And so D&D listened to GRRM spell out all the major plot points for the end of the series, probably while playing on their phone or something, and said "Oh, bells, huh? That sounds pretty cool, we'll throw that in there somehow" even though they didn't want to use any of the relevant characters.

Since grrm has said his ending is very similar to the one we got in the TV show, it's a pretty compelling theory that the Aegon bits that got cut were pretty crucial to making the ending work.

# ? Nov 27, 2021 17:11

pseudanonymous: Aug 30, 2008; When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

It�s called Stockholm Syndrom.

Did you know that's not a real thing. Actually invented by a male psychiatrist when a woman in a hostage situation said he did a poo poo job as a hostage negotiator. The original Stockholm syndrome was just 100% pure gaslighting.

# ? Nov 27, 2021 19:42

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

pseudanonymous posted:

Did you know that's not a real thing. Actually invented by a male psychiatrist when a woman in a hostage situation said he did a poo poo job as a hostage negotiator. The original Stockholm syndrome was just 100% pure gaslighting.

It�s more real than this series ever getting another book.

# ? Nov 27, 2021 23:16

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

What level of cope is this?

# ? Nov 30, 2021 20:49

vseslav.botkin: Feb 18, 2007; Professor

That's reasonable if they mean two or three normal books -- ADWD was around 420,000 words, which is about four normal books worth of writing. Also factor in that he moved the ending of Book 5 to the beginning of Book 6 and I could believe he was sitting around the 75% mark, which is why he keeps acting like it's almost finished. Of course, that would mean he still has another 100k to go, so....

# ? Nov 30, 2021 23:05

pidan: Nov 6, 2012

vseslav.botkin posted:

That's reasonable if they mean two or three normal books -- ADWD was around 420,000 words, which is about four normal books worth of writing. Also factor in that he moved the ending of Book 5 to the beginning of Book 6 and I could believe he was sitting around the 75% mark, which is why he keeps acting like it's almost finished. Of course, that would mean he still has another 100k to go, so....

I mean, speculation on how much of the books he has actually written is pretty pointless. Whether he has 1000 words written or a million, he's clearly in no rush to make a book of them. And we don't know why, either. Lots of theories make sense - he's lost interest, he's written himself into a corner, he's too busy with other stuff, he can't deal with the show overtaking him: all plausible, but ultimately what difference does it make?

# ? Nov 30, 2021 23:11

vseslav.botkin: Feb 18, 2007; Professor

Well, personally, I think it's extremely funny.

# ? Nov 30, 2021 23:17

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

the longest english language fantasy series ever written, The Wandering Inn, at 8.6 million words and still ongoing, has been written entirely within the period between the releases of A Dance with Dragons and Winds of Winter

# ? Nov 30, 2021 23:29

PupsOfWar: Dec 6, 2013

imo there's no way gurm can finish the series in just 2 more books, so whether he ever finishes book 6 (maybe) or even book 7 (probably not) is irrelevant to the question of whether he finishes the series (he won't)

the amount of corner-cutting in the latter half of the show is what crystalized this for me

PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Nov 30, 2021

# ? Nov 30, 2021 23:41

81sidewinder: Sep 8, 2014; Buying stocks on the day of the crash

PupsOfWar posted:

One thing I've noticed in the fandom since the show ended is people seem way more interested in the Griff/Aegon storyline than they used to be.

When Dance came out it felt like the universal consensus was "this sucks, why are we spending so much time on these nobody characters"

but it seems like since the show ended the way it did, people became more cognizant of the function Aegon likely serves (a problem Dany can't simply overwhelm with her armies, and which strikes at the very legitimacy of her whole claim, seems useful if the plan is for a Dany heel turn)

that or the Aegon=Blackfyre theory has had time to percolate around and people decided it was cool

This debate is kind of a microcosm to see if someone is still hanging on to this story finishing.

If you don't think FAegon has a huge role in the endgame, you have to admit that huge portions of Dance are almost entirely pointless to the story as a whole and really start to see where the wheels fell off in keeping the plot moving forward. If you see him having a huge role, or even being 'actually' an Aegon, you're diluting yourself into thinking GURM actually had a plan all along.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 00:31

Mr. Grapes!: Feb 12, 2007; Mr. who?

Jazerus posted:

the longest english language fantasy series ever written, The Wandering Inn, at 8.6 million words and still ongoing, has been written entirely within the period between the releases of A Dance with Dragons and Winds of Winter

I'm not sure a terrible shovelware LitRPG is really a good source of comparison. It's more of a fanfic.

Don't get me wrong, GURM is a fucker and we're not getting the books, but really, I'd rather have nothing at all than something of the quality of the Wandering Inn, with its Trumpquotes and Harry Potter Houses and Leveling Up My Innkeeping Skill

"Erin tossed a potato peel at him. Rabbiteater caught it, and munched on it. She shook her head.

�It�s not an insult to me. Because�I�m a Hufflepuff, Rabbiteater. Me too.�

He looked at her.

�But you smart. You�are�smart.�

He corrected himself. Erin smiled.

�Not according to the online test. I�m 40% Hufflepuff, 60% Gryffindor. But everyone gets Gryffindor. And really�I�m good at chess. "

Mr. Grapes! fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Dec 1, 2021

# ? Dec 1, 2021 01:58

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

i knew somebody was going to do this instead of just laughing at the slow words man

it's a fair point of comparison when it's 8.6 million words (which i personally enjoy more than most of gurm's words but you're welcome to view it as trash if that's how you feel, although your "example" text is, well, probably the worst six lines you could pull out of the whole story, and from one of the earliest volumes, too) vs 400k. aside from that, i do not personally feel that latter-day asoiaf has any special literary quality at all. gurm isn't tolkien by a long shot

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Dec 1, 2021

# ? Dec 1, 2021 03:12

PupsOfWar: Dec 6, 2013

if the position you want to take is that the anonymous channer author of The Wandering Inn puts out better work than gurm, i dont think anyone can realistically stop you

# ? Dec 1, 2021 03:19

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

PupsOfWar posted:

if the position you want to take is that the anonymous channer author of The Wandering Inn puts out better work than gurm, i dont think anyone can realistically stop you

it would extremely surprise me if the author of TWI had any tolerance whatsoever for channers

there are a lot of valid criticisms you can make of TWI but these aren't it, folks

# ? Dec 1, 2021 03:32

Guy A. Person: May 23, 2003

I feel like if you don�t want a fantasy series you like to get made fun of, bringing it up in a thread that�s become entirely about making GBS threads on a guy�s fantasy novels in increasingly elaborate ways was maybe a little risky

# ? Dec 1, 2021 03:40

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Guy A. Person posted:

I feel like if you don�t want a fantasy series you like to get made fun of, bringing it up in a thread that�s become entirely about making GBS threads on a guy�s fantasy novels in increasingly elaborate ways was maybe a little risky

that's fair

i don't much care about people's opinions of TWI, i responded because the criticism was very dumb

unlike all of the criticism of grrm

# ? Dec 1, 2021 04:14

TK-42-1: Oct 30, 2013; looks like we have a bad transmitter

Holy poo poo.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 05:12

The Anime Liker: Aug 8, 2009; by VideoGames

Mr. Grapes! posted:

“It’s not an insult to me. Because…I’m a Hufflepuff, Rabbiteater. Me too.”

He looked at her.

“But you smart. You…are…smart.”

He corrected himself. Erin smiled.

“Not according to the online test. I’m 40% Hufflepuff, 60% Gryffindor. But everyone gets Gryffindor. And really—I’m good at chess. "

Thanks, I now have advanced terminal AIDS cancer. In my balls.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 07:04

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

hitler had gone super-saiyan....

# ? Dec 1, 2021 07:38

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Jazerus posted:

that's fair

i don't much care about people's opinions of TWI, i responded because the criticism was very dumb

unlike all of the criticism of grrm

Have to disagree here, the criticism was very good

Like all of the criticism of grrm, :lol:

# ? Dec 1, 2021 08:41

ChubbyChecker: Mar 25, 2018

Mr. Grapes! posted:

I'm not sure a terrible shovelware LitRPG is really a good source of comparison. It's more of a fanfic.

Don't get me wrong, GURM is a fucker and we're not getting the books, but really, I'd rather have nothing at all than something of the quality of the Wandering Inn, with its Trumpquotes and Harry Potter Houses and Leveling Up My Innkeeping Skill

"Erin tossed a potato peel at him. Rabbiteater caught it, and munched on it. She shook her head.

�It�s not an insult to me. Because�I�m a Hufflepuff, Rabbiteater. Me too.�

He looked at her.

�But you smart. You�are�smart.�

He corrected himself. Erin smiled.

�Not according to the online test. I�m 40% Hufflepuff, 60% Gryffindor. But everyone gets Gryffindor. And really�I�m good at chess. "

now that's podracing!

# ? Dec 1, 2021 11:44

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

pidan posted:

Kazakhs have always been pretty diverse, but yeah, that picture is definitely not a typical look for an ethnic kazakh person living a steppe lifestyle.

Otoh she's fluent in kazakh and rides horses better than anyone here in west Texas or back on canadian farms, and GRRM wasn't writing in 1795. Kinda my point, it's a bit racist that the ur-Dothraki is a hawaiian and they all look a certain way, while irl it's totally cool for randos to call my girlfriend not kazakh enough because she doesn't look right. As said, the dothraki could have been a lot more interesting.

Still could be but lol fat man is not writing any more books.

Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Dec 1, 2021

# ? Dec 1, 2021 15:22

Coquito Ergo Sum: Feb 9, 2021

Pausing my rewatch to look back at problems I've had with the first few seasons, and boy it really does feel like Dave and Dan are the most responsible for the show's decline in terms of writing. So many of their episodes not only have the "show don't tell" problem of characters constantly explaining who they or other characters are while repeating lines like "He's the one who killed the Halfhand!", but their episodes also poison the well with massive character divergences that writers of other episodes then have to deal with. They also have the far and way worst dialogue and humor of any of the episodes.

# ? Dec 2, 2021 19:20

PupsOfWar: Dec 6, 2013

benioff & weiss are the strongest evidence that you should never let Posters be in charge of anything

like, drat, these 2 guys whose main qualification is they posted a lot on A Forum of Ice and Fire aren't good screenwriters?

# ? Dec 3, 2021 04:48

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 19:51

jsoh: Mar 24, 2007; O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight

PupsOfWar posted:

benioff & weiss are the strongest evidence that you should never let Posters be in charge of anything

like, drat, these 2 guys whose main qualification is they posted a lot on A Forum of Ice and Fire aren't good screenwriters?

their main qualifications are daddies money

# ? Dec 3, 2021 05:15

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: George Rail Road Martin

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