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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Rand learning toxic masculinity from Lan and then having to find a way out of it is, like, the crux of his entire arc. If that's not happening... what exactly is Rand's arc, now? I think whatever poo poo that goes down next episode is going to set them on a new trajectory -- maybe cause Lan and Rand to shut down and distance themselves out of duty or fear of getting people killed. I actually have no idea what's going to happen which is kinda neat! Like the way they're setting up death flags for Moiraine and the amount of focus they gave the warder bond makes me wonder if she's going to go out way earlier than she did in the books. But it'd be really weird to resolve the Lan/Nynaeve/Moiraine stuff this early.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:23
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TLM3101 posted:*snip* I just wanted to say without posting your whole comment again that it made me realize something. It's fitting that the TV adaption of the Eye of the World ends up written like they aren't sure if they will be successful enough to get a sequel so some plot points get rushed to fit in one season. The Wheel weaves as The Wheel wills.
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Dec 17, 2021 19:23
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Chomposaur posted:I actually have no idea what's going to happen which is kinda neat! Like the way they're setting up death flags for Moiraine and the amount of focus they gave the warder bond makes me wonder if she's going to go out way earlier than she did in the books. But it'd be really weird to resolve the Lan/Nynaeve/Moiraine stuff this early. it was all death flags until they did the oath that she can't return to the Tower, which gives away the game -- would never have spent that much time on that scene if it was never going to cause conflict later
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Dec 17, 2021 19:27
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Episode Seven, "The Dark Along the Ways" While we've returned to the books somewhat, the unfortunate situation with Barney Harris has forced some significant changes to the story, and the show itself has made some voluntary choices to adjust matters. Let's discuss! What Happened? We cold open at the Blood Snows, then pick up where we left off with the Mat-less party in the Ways. They travel through it, have a Trolloc encounter, are accosted by Manchin Shin, and escape near Fal Dara. They confer with Lord Agelmar, Padan Fain shows up through the Ways, Moiraine consults Min, there's an argument, and everyone breaks up to brood. Rand and Egwene have make up sex, Nynaeve and Lan get together for the first and second times, Rand has a flashback to learning he's adopted from a wounded Tam in a scene from episode one, then we see he's been channeling ever since he broke the door in Breen's Spring. Rand consults Min himself, and finally he admits that he's the Dragon Reborn, and he and Moirane ditch the others to enter the Blight and travel to the Eye of the World. This episode mostly covers chapters 44-48 of The Eye of the World with the travels through the Ways, time spent at Fal Dara, and the beginning of the journey into the Blight. The flashback of Tam's delirious ramblings covers events from chapter 6, while Moiraine's consultation with Min takes place in Chapter 14, and Rand's talk with her in Chapter 15. What's Been Changed or Added? Tigraine's giving birth to Rand and subsequent death are mentioned but never shown in the books. Tam finds baby Rand after Tigraine is already dead rather than showing mercy and helping her give birth as shown here. Since Mat was with the party all the way through the end of the book, the argument about trying to reopen the Waygate to get him never occurs. The trip through the Ways is abbreviated compared to the book, where it takes several days. The party finds evidence of Trollocs in the Ways but doesn't face any actual Trollocs this time. The Machin Shin attack doesn't include whispers of your greatest fears, it's just a threat to drain your soul. Lord Agelmar isn't nearly so overconfident in the book. Indeed, rather than denying he needs help, in the book Agelmar is practically pleading with Lan to raise the standard of Malkier and get him reinforcements while hoping that Moiraine will stay to help as well. That's because in the book, Agelmar is well aware that a massive Trolloc army is heading his way, and he's desperate for any help he can get in the battle to come. Lady Amalisa doesn't show up until the early chapters of The Great Hunt, where she has a conversation with Liandrin, not Moiraine. There is no indication that Amalisa can channel or was a failed Aes Sedai candidate in the books. Moiraine certainly does not sic the Red Ajah on Mat. Perrin doesn't notice Padan Fain in Fal Dara because in the book, Padan Fain is already insane and acting very Gollum like and had been immediately captured by the guards while trying to sneak into the city and thrown in prison. When Moiraine consults Min in Baerlon, we don't know what they talk about because that's a Rand chapter, and he isn't close enough to hear. The description of "sparks fighting the darkness" is from the book, but it's something Min tells Rand. In the book, Min is a serving girl at the Stag and Lion inn, not the bartender/proprietor. The discussion about whether to press on from Fal Dara, and especially the Rand-Egwene-Perrin love triangle aspect of it are completely new to the show. Likewise, the scene with Lan visiting one of his father's retainers and the man's family is new, since in the books, the last of the men who brought Lan out of Malkier, Bukama, had died twenty years ago during the prequel New Spring. In the book, Lan doesn't tell Nynaeve about his heritage as the king of lost Malkier. Agelmar tells the whole group about it, instead. Lan and Nynaeve don't hook up at this point in the books. Rand's archery practice, conversation and make up sex with Egwene, and subsequent second archery practice are all new. The flashback to Tam helping Tigraine give birth is new, and in the books, his telling Rand about finding the baby happened back in chapter 6. As noted earlier, Rand's conversation with Min happens much earlier in the book. Book Min's visions are much more detailed, and yet do not explicitly confirm that Rand is the Dragon Reborn. In the book Min does mention three beautiful women, but her show counterpart leaves out that they're surrounding a dead Rand on his funeral bier. Rand doesn't tell Moiraine he's the Dragon Reborn in the book. Indeed, even after she and the Amyrlin Seat both tell him that he is to his face in the early chapters of The Great Hunt he refuses to believe it until practically the end of the book. Rand and Moiraine do not sneak off and enter the Blight alone. The whole group, including Mat and Loial, all go into the Blight. The Blight is a gradual transition from normal terrain to increasingly corrupted and dangerous terrain, not the overgrown mass that it is in the show. The Eye of the World, besides not being the Dark One's prison, is also not one day's walk north of Fal Dara in the book. In the book the Eye is a source of untainted Saidin and it moves around magically, never appearing in the same place twice. Moiraine finds it through the combination of having three ta'veran with her and desperate need to save the Eye from the Dark One. What Got Dropped Entirely? Mat. This is due to Barney Harris leaving the show, of course, but in the books Mat remains with the party all the way until the end. A lot of Sheinar. The Waygate is about a day's ride south of Fal Dara in the book, and the party travels through deserted villages and farms on their way through. They're deserted because everyone's evacuated to Fal Dara to escape... ...the massive Trolloc army that's coming. It and Agelmar's decision to ride out to meet it in Tarwin's Gap are all missing from the show. In the book, Fal Dara isn't right at the mouth of Tarwin's Gap and certainly isn't within line of sight of the Blight. A series of watchtowers that the Shienarans have built to watch the Blight have been omitted as well. Lan's old friend Lord Ingtar meets the party at the gates in the book. He later escorts them as far as the watchtowers, and because of that misses the Battle of Tarwin's Gap by an hour. He's been omitted from the show, though he apparently has been cast for season two. Foul mouthed Uno takes Ingtar's place in the show, despite not showing up until The Great Hunt in the books. Because Fain hasn't been captured, Moiraine's interrogation of Fain and revelation that he's been a Darkfriend all along and indeed brought the Trollocs to the Two Rivers has not occurred. In the book, Lord Agelmar plays host to the whole party. His interactions with them and the exposition about Lan and the state of Sheinar and the Blight have been omitted, as has Agelmar first asking Lan and Moiraine to wait to go into the Blight until after the coming battle, and then suggesting that they take an escort of soldiers with them, pleas and suggestions that Moiraine declines. Many of Min's visions regarding Rand have been dropped, the most significant to matters right now being the one where she flat out tells Rand that he and Egwene aren't going to end up together the way they both want. So What Did I Think? drat, do I wish they'd gotten the ten episodes Rafe asked for instead of just eight. The scene with Tam and Rand in the Westwood needed just another minute or two to really sell it, for instance, and a lot of the things that bug me would have been better with more time to set them up properly. For that matter, I'd have liked more time in the Ways as well as the explanation for non-book readers what the Ways even are and how they came to be and why they needed Loial to get around in them. The whole Perrin loves Egwene thing also feels like it's come out of nowhere, even though you can kind of see it in Laila refusing to go to Egwene's braid party and Perrin staring longingly at Egwene while she dances with Aram, the fact that Perrin has been off screen a lot means that it still felt sudden and disconcerting when it happened. More time would have let them set that up better. I'm not 100% sure I'm down with that whole love triangle. I'm willing to see if the show does anything interesting with it, but between it being a major deviation from the books for (so far) no really good reason and it seeming to come out of nowhere because Perrin has had so little screen time (my non-book reading friend can't be bothered to learn his name, just referring to him as "third guy" because he's been so unimportant thus far) means it's going to be a bit of a tough sell. Rand admitting he's the Dragon Reborn and telling that to Moiraine, however, is a change I'm all for. Rand trying to run away from his destiny throughout The Great Hunt is my least favorite part of that book, regardless of how realistic it is. But by having the choice of "admit it's you or watch all your friends die", it makes perfect sense that Rand would choose to save his friends. Likewise, Moiraine choosing to leave everyone else behind as she goes on what she believes is a suicide mission with Rand also makes sense. Even Min's prophecy that "The Amyrlin Seat will be your downfall" makes sense in the context that Siuan's dreams are the only reason Moiraine is going into the Blight. So Moiraine probably believes that she's going to die at the Eye and is choosing to let everyone else survive by not bringing them. Padan Fain: Superspy is an interpretation of the character that I'm really enjoying. It's much better than the Gollum knock off he is at this point in the books. They've done Min proud, the fatalism of a precog is portrayed perfectly here, and her chemistry with Rand is a good sign for later events. On the other hand, Lord Agelmar seems to have eaten a bit of a character assassination. I think I prefer the competent but overwhelmed by events version in the books to the overconfident and rude version we get here. Lady Amalisa being a failed Aes Sedai is an interesting angle, and I wonder if they're going to do anything with that next season, or if it's just to introduce the idea that there are non-Aes Sedai channelers out in the world. I'm still thinking about the hastened Lan+Nynaeve relationship. Show Lan doesn't seem to have book Lan's suicidal death wish to go kill himself in the Blight fighting Trollocs, and thus doesn't feel he has to reject a relationship with Nynaeve. On one hand, it's interesting to see things progress so quickly, on the other Nynaeve's love giving book Lan something to live for is a big story aspect to lose in both their arcs. I dunno yet. I guess I'll have to see where they go from here. The combination of mixing Rand's archery and the flashbacks to him channeling was very well done. Even if I wanted a little more from Tam's revelation, the rest of that sequence works great. So overall, I think this is a good episode with a lot to recommend it, albeit one that's hurt by the lack of time and having to cover for Harris' departure. As emergency patching goes, this was probably as good as we can hope for. Episodes 1 & 2 Episode 3 Episode 4 Episode 5 Episode 6 Episode 8 jng2058 fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 20:00
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Moiraine and Lan bonding due to prank war gone too far confirmed in the X-ray tidbits!
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Dec 17, 2021 20:23
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Sanguinia posted:I always wondered if him winning that sword duel wasn't partly Lews Therin, as it later would be with various channeling weaves. Lews was one of the best in the world with swords. Almost certainly, given that even in Caemlyn Bryne comments that the sword seems natural on him (or somesuch) despite the fact he's had basically no training whatsoever in it at that point. I'm really not sure even prodigy is enough to describe just how fast Rand picked up the blade once he started to get some real training, so the skill bleeding through from his past life makes a lot of sense. And the fight in Toman Head has him specifically note refusing to draw on Saidin, so I don't think he's channeling there - he just focuses and falls into the Void, and proceeds to understand the swordsmanship going and how to counter it. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 20:25
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Gonna be real mad if I can't buy a set of the Forsaken totems at some point. e: funco pop Forsaken totems don't count
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Dec 17, 2021 21:14
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Gonna be real mad if I can't buy a set of the Forsaken totems at some point. for an e-commerce company, amazon is really dropping the ball on the merch thus far
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Dec 17, 2021 21:16
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Hexel posted:for an e-commerce company, amazon is really dropping the ball on the merch thus far Where's my Loial bobblehead?
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Dec 17, 2021 21:20
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Remember, if there's ever anything that strains belief, that the pattern is canonically like a director doing what it needs to make events of the world interesting for the creator. It's literally making a book/movie for the creator's entertainment and that's its sole mission.
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Dec 17, 2021 21:28
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love tirangle is dumb, agelmar being a stuck up jerk is dumb tigrane was loving cool, the ways were cool, but too short. Min is a totaly cutie and gave off good Min energy so best wife status is carrying over.
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Dec 17, 2021 21:31
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I laugh every time a book reader complains about the "love triangle"
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Dec 17, 2021 21:59
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The TV thread is still dissecting the fight scene 
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Dec 17, 2021 22:08
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What does CW mean again Also I wonder if moiraine girlfights Lanfear at the eye
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Dec 17, 2021 22:08
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:What does CW mean again Content warning But in this context, the tv channel The CW
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Dec 17, 2021 22:09
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.....which means?
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Dec 17, 2021 22:11
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:What does CW mean again It's like when people say the visual effects are "Xena level", but for dialog instead of vfx. Also loving looool if they think this is "CW" level just wait. Edit: Oh, CW is a tv network that famously pumps out teenage angst and romance tv shows.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:11
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Ah, gotcha Also Xena, Hercules, and Legend of the Seeker rule fight me cowards
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Dec 17, 2021 22:16
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Ah, gotcha I will. By making really abnoxious faces and making rawr sounds and making the world's worst effort to stab someone with a foam sword.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:26
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Which I block with my sword and then kick you in the guts
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Dec 17, 2021 22:27
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Lightning bolt.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:28
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:
I always assumed that as the elite, it was more that they had better equipment and training, and the people in it were less likely to break. Actual, professional soldiers who'd had some fighting experience. They might not be much better than some of the army, but they were actually trained and took it seriously. There could always be some idiot officers but the main dudes like the captains were given their positions because of competence rather than political pull. That alone would make them better than a lot of armies at the time, or even throughout our history even if their skill level wasn't much higher than anyone else. Tam did earn that sword, I'm hoping they really cover more of that. The fact it's covered by the scabbard might be how they reveal it in the future, where he pulls it out to practice and everyone freaks out. Comrade Blyatlov posted:Ah, gotcha Legend of the Seeker was a show built to gently caress with the author which is part of what made it so badass.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:29
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How are u posted:Lightning bolt.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:32
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Rereading the second book and I'd forgotten how early Egwane was leashed. I remembered that being far later.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:41
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seaborgium posted:
The problem here is that someone noticed last episode that there's a heron mark at the top of the sheath as well, not just on the blade. Also Rand drawing it on Lan, so he at the very least should have noted it on the blade itself. So yes, Rand's been casually wandering around with a blademaster's sword and no one's even batted an eyebrow - and even if you want to say most peasants wouldn't recognize it, now they're in Fal Dara. I've got the bad suspicion that it'll just suddenly be brought up next season when Ingtar enters the picture and starts training Rand, and please pretend people not noticing it before now didn't happen.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:44
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There has to be a scene of Lan training Rand and explaining the Sheathing the Sword move because its really important.
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Dec 17, 2021 22:50
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One of the first clips we saw of the show was them "making" the heron marked blade so I imagine they have a plan for it.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:08
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I really do wish that Machin Shin had been more, well batshit insane, the way that it is in the books. It could still have whispered that Rand's the Dragon but it's just a lot more horrifying in the books when it's just spouting insanity about blood and bones and eating souls.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:10
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When people were talking about removing some of the redundant fast travel mechanics last week, I did wonder if Machin Shin might be changed somehow. If they don't end up using the Portal Stones, "I win again Lews Therin" could easily become Machin Shin's effect on the already insane.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:23
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Reik posted:One of the first clips we saw of the show was them "making" the heron marked blade so I imagine they have a plan for it. Also when Tam pulls it out the camera lingers on the Heron Mark despite it being in the middle of a desperate action scene. I don't blame Lan for not commenting on it, he's a cagey guy. The only other person who on camera got a good enough look at the sword that they really should have noticed it was Darkfriend Lady, and why would she say anything? You can argue that characters like Aglemar or Thom or several others should have noticed it logically and said something, but its not a stretch to assume they just missed it. Rand keeps the thing under his coat for the most part.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:24
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I never bought into Aiel are superhuman fighters. They're awesome skirmishers. And individually loving excellent fighters. And Rand gets a few hundred thousand of them. Other professional troops have different strengths. Like armor, pikes and crossbows. Tight formations and different tactics. Cavalry is also a force multiplier even against aiel. Trollocs are big and dumb but they weigh the same as horses and charge almost as hard. The trick with them would be not to get hit.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:24
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Natural 20 posted:I really do wish that Machin Shin had been more, well batshit insane, the way that it is in the books. It could still have whispered that Rand's the Dragon but it's just a lot more horrifying in the books when it's just spouting insanity about blood and bones and eating souls. I dunno. Something that is getting into your mind and preying on your doubts and fears seems a lot creepier than just talking about skin and blood. Book version is all internal. Having something get into your brain and read you like a book is a bit more horrific.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:28
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Affi posted:I never bought into Aiel are superhuman fighters. The Aiel War didn't end because the rest of continent stopped them, it ended because the Aiel killed the guy they wanted to kill and went home.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:29
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Affi posted:Cavalry is also a force multiplier even against aiel. Considering Trollocs call the Aiel Waste "The Dying Grounds," I guess that says something about how big a deal cavalry are for Aiel to deal with 
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Dec 17, 2021 23:29
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the books frequently talk about the aiel basically being superhuman in combat if only because they spend their entire life living around it and training. they're not magical or whatever else, they're just attuned to it more than the average troop from some other nation, and basically any time they're brought up it's about some poo poo like how a single one of them easily killed like 5 people or whatever. nothing in the show so far has been out of line with that.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:30
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Affi posted:I never bought into Aiel are superhuman fighters. The Aiel war had at least 167,500 Westlanders (Some more, because there are a few countries who's numbers are never stated) vs at most 80,000 Aiel. And the Westlanders lost.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:32
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Fully kitted out Aiel can run as fast as a horse, they are literally superhuman due to 2500 years living in a wasteland and preparing to be used as weapons. They are the People of the Dragon. They rule.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:36
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I mean, they're literally Fremen from Dune. Them being superior fighters both on the tactical and strategic level because of their environment and their warrior culture is stated fact, and we see it illustrated. That's not to say that no Wetlander is any match for them. Rhuarc respects the Great Captains, he nods along and approves of their thoughts on various battles all the time. They all respect Lan. Other characters who fight them at various points aren't completely outclassed. They're just better fighters than The Most People From The Fat And Comfy Lands.
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Dec 17, 2021 23:38
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CainFortea posted:The Aiel war had at least 167,500 Westlanders (Some more, because there are a few countries who's numbers are never stated) vs at most 80,000 Aiel. Well, technically, each side achieved their operational goals, so maybe a mutual victory?
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Dec 17, 2021 23:39
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I beat up an Aiel once Was a pretty fair fight since I had a broken leg at the time
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Dec 17, 2021 23:40
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