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I’m not here to argue that execution was perfect - even though I largely really enjoyed the season and think it’s a pretty good adaptation. I will say that Rafe is pretty good at explaining the changes they did make and that the explanations make sense to me in hindsight. Also I’m guessing that the RJJ “regret” he’s alluding to there is that the early books are too Rand-centric. There really is a big shift in the books as you get into TDR and beyond where Jordan embraces the ensemble and multiple character perspectives. It all comes around in the end of the series with Egwene’s last conversation with Rand - in the end, victory over the Dark One wasn’t just about the Dragon, but humanity as a whole.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:20
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I'm probably a B too. I've read the books twice, I'd like to see some book things and maybe something a little different too. If I wanted 1:1 book stuff I'd just read the books again. Something I noticed on a 3rd rewatch is LTT and Latra Posae Decume are wearing the same knuckle duster lookin thing that Ishi does 
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Dec 24, 2021 19:21
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There were some really great bits this episode - Ishamael owned, I liked how Rand's puppydog nature saved the day, Padan Fain is a wonderful motherfucker etc. But it all felt very disjointed and a bit like things just happened, without a lot of time to get into how or why or what it means. Kind of like the season as a whole really. I think the various cliffhangers were a bit of a whiff. I don't like "will this actor return next year?" as a cliffhanger because it'll be obvious in any of the marketing campaigns. Book readers can probably deduce that Rand was lured there to accidentally destroy the seal, but show-only people get some line about an indestructible thing actually being destructible which means ?????. It feels like the episode ends with them reminding us there's more story to come, instead of giving us some big mystery or hook to bring us back next year.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:22
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: He could see condensation gathering on a pitcher of berry wine.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:26
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before the series started my expectations were dismal. once the first three came out my hopes definitely got up and after the fifth episode I thought drat this is gonna be pretty close to perfect. 6 and 7 did a lot to squander that trust. a lot of the poo poo I didn't like in the finale was set up by those two episodes. the actor for Mat leaving, COVID, and the flawed nature of the first book being what it is were all pretty much worst case scenario. one of your principals leaving the show after shooting but before reshoots is a loving five alarm disaster. if they can get a few more episodes a season, a few extra dollars for CG, some experience with what worked and what didn't, then the show does have a whole lot of potential. what we got with these 8 eps was flawed, sometimes deeply flawed, but I don't feel like it's because the show is being done by incompetent people or people who don't care about the source material. there's every reason to expect it to get better from here.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:58
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th3t00t posted:She wouldn't be considered an oath breaker until they ask her if she remembers her oath and then they'd still give her the chance to re-swear her oaths, and then if she decided not to she'd be made da'covale, not killed. They killed tons of villagers in the towns they conquered in TGH. Hurin complains about all the death he smells as they pass through. People were absolutely fair game until they (re)affirmed their oaths.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:15
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: *Folds arms under ample innkeeper breasts*
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Dec 24, 2021 20:22
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After a seriously dazzling display of raw power annihilating thousands of Trollocs by 5 mostly untrained channelers linking up...I'm curious how Dumai's Wells is going to play out and if the impact is going to be undermined by this earlier scene. edited to remove "low powered" before people holler at me about egwene and nynaeve because my original phrasing was incorrect.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:23
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The TV no book thread sounds like every one of us book readers at the end of a book arguing about what happened and what comes next. It is nice to see again. And someone made a comment that makes me 100% certain Moiraine is just shielded and tied off. "The show made it apparent that the one power needs to be channeled constantly to get an effect." (Not quite the exact quote but close enough.) This would be a good way to teach a out tying off weaves.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:33
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Season 2 will be Lan and Moiraine looking for a way to fix a male tied off shielding. Boom now her arc has something for her to do. After sleeping on it I'm still fine with the ending. The show could have used 2 more full episodes
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Dec 24, 2021 20:38
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I mean there's a couple different ways she can get her power back and Judkins made it clear that's a plot device to explore some poo poo with her and Lan in S2 because they are #1 and #2 on the call sheet but have gently caress all to do in books 2 & 3. And you can't park your leads for a whole season.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:41
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Dr. Clockwork posted:After a seriously dazzling display of raw power annihilating thousands of Trollocs by 5 mostly untrained channelers linking up...I'm curious how Dumai's Wells is going to play out and if the impact is going to be undermined by this earlier scene. I think the main impact of Dumai’s Wells was the sheer horror of what was happening. The Asha’man weren’t just unleashing a ton of raw power, they were doing it to annihilate and explode huge amounts of actual people. We can go back and forth on the morality of killing Trollocs, but the fact is you can kill 5,000 of them and no one will really give a poo poo. When human body parts start landing all around you, it’s a little different. At least that’s how I remember Dumai’s Wells. It’s been a really long time.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:42
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bio347 posted:I'm kinda intrigued by the open existence of women who can channel that are not Aes Sedai. That's a pretty big political change compared to the books. Like, there wasn't a "we need everyone who can channel!" moment for Tarwin's Gap in EotW because it's an unthinkable ask - channeling means Aes Sedai period full stop. I suppose it's probably an irrelevant detail for the purposes of the story, but a world where the White Tower does not have a(n apparent) iron grip on channeling is a pretty different place. The rules for this are established pretty early on in the books. If you are too weak to be an Aes Sedai, they tech you enough not to kill yourself and put you out, Break the Tower's rules badly enough, they put you out once they're confident you won't kill yourself. Refuse the Test three times, they out you out. Fail the test (and survive), they put you out. No mention of there being a ban on channeling is mentioned, but there is a prohibition against organizing,. The Kin are special because they're runaways and an organization, not because they are channelers not controlled by the Tower. Nothing about Amalisa or her other emergency recruits contradict any element of the book setup. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile:
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Dec 24, 2021 20:42
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Hexel posted:I mean there's a couple different ways she can get her power back and Judkins made it clear that's a plot device to explore some poo poo with her and Lan in S2 because they are #1 and #2 on the call sheet but have gently caress all to do in books 2 & 3. Book 3 she has plenty to do. Chasing Rand with Perrin gives us seeing how taveran affect towns, meeting/freeing Gaul, meeting Faile, meeting grey men, darkhounds, balefire, sammeal in illian, Be'lel balefire. There is a lot there and a lot to work with imo.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:50
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thrawn527 posted:I think the main impact of Dumai’s Wells was the sheer horror of what was happening. The Asha’man weren’t just unleashing a ton of raw power, they were doing it to annihilate and explode huge amounts of actual people. We can go back and forth on the morality of killing Trollocs, but the fact is you can kill 5,000 of them and no one will really give a poo poo. When human body parts start landing all around you, it’s a little different. Additionally, Dumais Wells is the first time organizer Male channelers operate together as an institution. It is the birth of the Black Tower to the world stage, which is a sudden shift for all those involved. Plus of course Aes Sedai swearing to the Dragon. It's also the first major power-on-power battle I'd say. There is some during the battle of Cairhien, with Rand and Egwene/Aviendha, and Rahvin blasting them back in turn (or is it Sammael then?). I dont remember if the Shaido wise ones get involved, but it's not nearly to the extent of the Power fighting at Dumai's Wells.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:51
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RC Cola posted:Book 3 she has plenty to do. Chasing Rand with Perrin gives us seeing how taveran affect towns, meeting/freeing Gaul, meeting Faile, meeting grey men, darkhounds, balefire, sammeal in illian, Be'lel balefire. There is a lot there and a lot to work with imo. Rafe Judkins posted:What they had to do in book two is very, very, very small. She has one chapter essentially, her and Lan. They’re number one and two on the call sheet and we have Rosamund Pike and Daniel Henney I'm just reporting what they said and why that decision was made  https://nerdist.com/article/the-wheel-of-time-season-1-finale-showrunner-interview-rafe-judkins/
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Dec 24, 2021 20:54
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That was my bad for saying book 3 I guess Judkins only ever said book 2 but seasons 2 & 3Rafe Judkins posted:So we talked about Season 2 and Season 3 and what they look like in the writers' room while we were doing Season 1, so we could set it up correctly in the finale. That was the biggest story we had to figure out how to tell -- what is the Moiraine and Lan story in Season 2? They don't really have anything in the book so we looked at the chapter that they have, and it really is so much about their relationship. Digging into it, and asking, "What's the core that exists there between the two of them when you really, really dive in?" Hopefully, we set them up in a place at the end of Season 1 that will really take that chapter of what they have to do in Book 2, and make you feel like there's a whole season worth of story of their relationship in there, and Moiraine putting back the pieces of who she really is. https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-rafe-judkins-interview/
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Dec 24, 2021 20:58
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Haha taking the Robert Jordan approach and stringing out a thin plot for three books.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:01
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: Please.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:01
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Grundulum posted:
I love watching book readers with this take because the additional prophecy is actually 100% accurate to the books, even though it doesn't show up in them. And like, you should know why that prophecy will come true and why it didn't happen in this episode.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:03
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Nitrousoxide posted:They killed tons of villagers in the towns they conquered in TGH. Hurin complains about all the death he smells as they pass through. People were absolutely fair game until they (re)affirmed their oaths.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:05
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Prophesies are known for being clear and unambiguous.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:05
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Hexel posted:That was my bad for saying book 3 I guess Judkins only ever said book 2 but seasons 2 & 3 Gotcha, sorry to nitpick. Yeah in book 2 moiraine literally goes to visit adalaes and vandene to learn about the forsaken and prophecies. I think season 2 can be moiraine just lore dumping prophecies, forsaken, and maybe some history of the war of hundred years so we have context of hawkwing's armies coming back.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:07
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I’m down with Moiraine figuring out how to break the shield just in time to institute a “balefire any forsaken on sight, they’re too dangerous otherwise” policy.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:15
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This is a really refreshing reaction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY_grb9q8VA Non-book readers are smarter than we think. This girl basically likes everything that Daniel Greene hated about this episode 
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Dec 24, 2021 21:18
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^^^ Red Laytee is one of the most insightful non-readers I follow. th3t00t posted:Those were towns massacred by the white cloak questioners. Not the Seanchan. No, they were done by the Seanchan. In fact the white cloaks roll into one village while Perrin is there and the people there don't react like it was whitecloaks who killed a bunch of people.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So, like, it's good. But I like the books more still. Go figure. I never, ever had any sense that I would land elsewhere than this.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: Tug boat for life.
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Dec 24, 2021 22:13
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You know what? That last episode? I really liked it. It might not be *our* turning, but it is *a* turning, and one which works for television. I'm excited to see what the team can do with more budget, more space, more security of tenure., and less Great Plague interference. And as a final observation - Josha is going to be an *incredible* Rand al'Thor.
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Dec 24, 2021 22:40
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When I saw the very first shot of Rand in the first episode, I had strong "I can see how this man becomes The Dragon Reborn" vibes from him.
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Dec 24, 2021 22:57
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:
This is about where I am as well. There were some good scenes in the episode (mostly the Ishamael and Rand scenes) and then so many just bizarre and poorly thought out ones. Seriously, literally everything about the battle scene was just bad. Like, that was one of the worst walls I've ever seen in movies/tv, and that's the best the Borderlanders can build in generations? "Let's put holes in our wall at about twice the height of what we're keeping out (that they can apparently easily break open), genius! Also absolutely no tools on top of the parapet to clear climbing enemies off the wall." This isn't even a Covid issue (or it really shouldn't be), because choices like wall design and Amalisa just randomly standing in the field instead of on the city wall were clearly approved by someone, and in the case of the former were likely heavily CGI. The funny thing is that I almost, ALMOST, gave Amalisa a pass for standing there like a moron instead of somewhere safe (like the city wall) given this episode went out of its way to talk about untrained channelers being able to accomplish great things when put into peril... except she HAS been trained and clearly knows how to channel (if weakly) whenever she wants. Also sure was great how Trollocs only remember they've got throwing spears when the plot requires it, because some of them certainly got closer than the one that pegged Moraine in Episode 1. The cold open had absolutely no urgency to it, and sounded more like Lews Therin wanting to do it just because he could. The entire loving reason for the attack on the Bore was a desperation play because they were losing the war - and while you could still say he was being arrogant in that choice, because Latra did have reasonable concerns, it absolutely still was a case of they both had very valid points and just came to a disagreement (that arguably worked out for the best even with the Breaking... because the alternative was annihilation by the Shadow). Here he just sounds like a moron consumed by hubris. Rand setting off into what very much look like the Aiel Wastes with effectively no supplies on him was sure a choice too - though I can vaguely give this one a slight pass if we're assuming he's just planning to walk until he dies or whatever. If it is and we get an Aiel storyline with him alone, that'll sure be an interesting swerve... or it could be, but a lot of the shortcuts they've been choosing really aren't making me enthusiastic for a radical change like that. Not So Fast posted:The only reason she could was being connected to the two most powerful channellers for a thousand years. Without Nynaeve and Egwene she could barely light a candle. So her actual plan was to die like an idiot while dragging however many other weak channelers she could scrounge up down with her? Because she has absolutely zero idea how strong Nynaeve and Egwene are, and any other plan could have been better accomplished from safety atop the city walls. Or better yet, if she was really serious she would have pushed to be at Tarwin's Gap so she could take out as many as possible before burning out given they're actually chokepointed there and pressed together, instead of out in flatlands again. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 23:14
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CuriousSymptoms posted:You know what? That last episode? I really liked it. It might not be *our* turning, but it is *a* turning, and one which works for television. I'm excited to see what the team can do with more budget, more space, more security of tenure., and less Great Plague interference. And as a final observation - Josha is going to be an *incredible* Rand al'Thor. Yeah I've gotta say his performance in this episode relieves me of significant doubt if he could do the nuance required to play the reincarnation of a superhero raised as a farm boy struggling with his inevitable insanity as he tries to save a world that hates him Playing off Fares Fares Ishamael certainly helped but I was invested and did not lose disbelief during the whole sequence
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Dec 24, 2021 23:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: I'll have a tag please.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:18
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Re watched the Moraine/Ishy scene again, and I'm definitely coming down on the side of shielded. Her weaves go back into her, he doesn't pull anything out. He also makes like a locking motion with the little flash of power in his hand. Also mentions that she can sense the power, but she can't reach it. Gentled/burned out people can no longer sense the power, thus losing the will to live. The books definitely establish Forsaken can leave shields in place like done to Liandrin and Asmodean. Is she was stilled it should have broken her bond with Lan. They both know it's still there, just masked. And the Rafe interview is ambiguous as hell, nothing in that would make me think she was stilled. Also also, being stilled would have released her from the Oaths, and she said she still couldn't lie. Dingleberry2 fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 23:32
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th3t00t posted:Edit: It was also extremely dumb that Amalisa chose to let all of the men of Fal-Dara die before channeling all the trollocs away. it was funny as hell when she said all the children in fal dara had to stay and fight Jedit posted:The channelers in the current era are as children compared to those in the AOL and everything they do is simpler. For example, the very best Healing weaves used by the Yellow Ajah were originally just for battlefield triage. When the Forsaken show up and start channeling then we can expect to see what you want, but for now you're watching kids paint and complaining that it's not the Mona Lisa. there's no visual relationship between the weaves and their effects (aside from the netted look of the shields). it's all just 'laser beam pointed at the sea causes tsunami' or 'laser beam pointed at the sky causes lightning'.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:35
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Maybe just a little more forensic analysis of the pixels and we can settle for certain the stilled vs. shielded debate. I’m waiting for an interview with the CGI guy who just shrugs and goes “idk, we just put white lines around when they do magic.”
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Dec 24, 2021 23:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: I'd like one please. Thank you.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:07
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, quote this post by midnight Christmas EST if you want this gangtag added to your profile: Wipe out all my other gang tags Idc
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Dec 25, 2021 00:25
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Yeah, the Age of Legends scene would have landed different if they were in a war-torn city under siege. Soldiers with shocklances and whatnot. Would have raised the stakes and given more context. I loved hearing the Old Tongue and picking words and grammar out of the script. I’d love to see the actual actor script.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:32
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Ishamael was perfect, and the scenes he was in were mostly great. Fain was great. Everything else was in the average to really bad range. My episode ranking for the season would be: 4 > 7 > 2 = 3 > 5 > 6 > 1 > 8 Overall I'd rank the season as a 6/10, with a lot of potential for future seasons to be great (presuming that a lot of the general clunkyness of the writing and plot in this season was a consequence of the various unforeseeable disasters that impacted it).
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Dec 25, 2021 00:35
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