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Kill All Cops
Apr 11, 2007


Pacheco de Chocobo



Hell Gem

cinci zoo sniper posted:

country whose national sport is dota 2 handles sun poorly, more at 11

Funny since Ukraine is every bit the Dota2 powerhouse as Russia is. I hope Dendi didn't get drafted though.

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the popes toes
Oct 10, 2004

Grape posted:

Every time I check the live cams everything is dead quiet, so I will continue to do so as much as I can
#doingmypart

Seeing a lone person in one of those quiet panoramas, walking slowly alone, while war wages around the city, is the loneliest thing I've ever seen

FishBulbia
Dec 22, 2021



McDonalds is still being held, there is hope here

Peanut Butler
Jul 25, 2003



Grape posted:

Every time I check the live cams everything is dead quiet, so I will continue to do so as much as I can
#doingmypart

a maidan square one had sustained machine gun fire; now it's just- distant, incoherent, mass shouting

eerie beauty of the 6am church bells

a corvid's repeated yalp

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

cinci zoo sniper posted:

No real cities. They’ve captured some drive through villages in the south, and similarly around E101.

This is starting to resemble a farce the more I think about it.

KitConstantine
Jan 11, 2013

Looks like Russia forgot about Odessa in their initial hits on anti-aircraft positions

https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1497422249443405826?t=7FpNxlNpI3f3ovUl5jtcoA&s=19

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

SourKraut posted:

The hospital; cluster munitions aren't illegal under the Geneva Conventions, and "illegal" aggression is rarely addressed.

No, but they are a violation of the Convention on Cluster Munitions Treaty, to which 110 countries are signatories. Russia incidentally is not one of those countries, and neither is the United States; however, nearly every country in Europe and the Americas are signatories.

This is why it makes news and why cluster munitions should not be used. It's a munition that is pretty terrible in how indiscriminate it is, and it is banned by most Western countries.

Despera
Jun 6, 2011
Fallujah was a massive headache for US forces and a fraction of the size of kyiv

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

Kill All Cops posted:

Perhaps they should close the Dark Portal.

That's map 15 man, we're only at map 2.

OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013

FishBulbia posted:



McDonalds is still being held, there is hope here

This is the largest ever war between two countries that contain McDonalds, incidentally

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]
Does anyone know how many aircraft kills Ukraine is claiming tonight?

my morning jackass
Aug 24, 2009

Tuna-Fish posted:

The standard cold war Soviet doctrine massively oversimplified: Keep your good forces in reserve, assault everywhere along the line simultaneously with the second-tier forces, then call off any assaults that face heavy opposition, send your reserve of good troops to go through whichever places the second-tier forces made best progress in, ideally get a solid breaktrough and fan out to wreak havoc behind enemy lines.

People's opinions on what is happening might be somewhat colored by that. We have no idea how much this is still what the Russians do. At least some of the forces massed on Ukrainian borders are effectively police, suited for internal security but not for facing off against a determined enemy, so they are not all "good troops". Still, I would be shocked if there wasn't a solid "second punch" left still outside Ukraine.

Well we know there are troops in reserve because we have satellite imagery of that already.

I think a lot of people have their vision clouded by what they know war to be like, which has been a lot more asymmetrical than this. A near peer conflict between two (fairly) modern military forces is going to have a lot of casualties. Troop transports carrying paratroopers will get shot down, convoys will get vaporized by arty or air strikes and so on. These may be tactical failures and gently caress ups on one side and great moral victories on the other, but I think their strategic importance as individual events is being exaggerated.

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Peanut Butler posted:

a maidan square one had sustained machine gun fire; now it's just- distant, incoherent, mass shouting

eerie beauty of the 6am church bells

a corvid's repeated yalp

Nope, just checked. Quiet again. (Because I checked.)

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Grape posted:

Nope, just checked. Quiet again. (Because I checked.)

Except for someone playing music really loud and a bunch of ravens.

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

Despera posted:

Fallujah was a massive headache for US forces and a fraction of the size of kyiv

The CNN Generals pointed out that Kyiv is around 2 million people which is the size of Chicago. It was never going to be easy to take.

Concerned Citizen
Jul 22, 2007
Ramrod XTreme

OctaMurk posted:

This is the largest ever war between two countries that contain McDonalds, incidentally

This is why I've moved on to the Applebees Theory of Conflict Prevention.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Grape posted:

This is starting to resemble a farce the more I think about it.

We’ll need to wait for daylight. Kharkiv is taking insane pummelling, and internet connectivity may have been killed there. We could wake up into a Russia-held Kharkiv.

Kherson was also going really hot according to Twitter, but the reports now are that Russians got pushed further back than where they were at the sunset.

the popes toes
Oct 10, 2004

Despera posted:

Fallujah was a massive headache for US forces and a fraction of the size of kyiv

Speaking of, if the official Defense Ministry Ukrainian reports are correct, Russia has lost more lives in this adventure than the US lost in the entire Afghan campaign. I can't wrap my head around it.

Canned Sunshine
Nov 20, 2005

CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION



ZombieLenin posted:

No, but they are a violation of the Convention on Cluster Munitions Treaty, to which 110 countries are signatories. Russia incidentally is not one of those countries, and neither is the United States; however, nearly every country in Europe and the Americas are signatories.

This is why it makes news and why cluster munitions should not be used. It's a munition that is pretty terrible in how indiscriminate it is, and it is banned by most Western countries.

I don't disagree at all, just clarifying that technically, Russia's use of them isn't illegal per-say. It's still horrible.

FishBulbia
Dec 22, 2021

ZombieLenin posted:

Does anyone know how many aircraft kills Ukraine is claiming tonight?

Like 6.

So far there is only 3 confirmed downings total.

Dante
Feb 8, 2003

Reading this thread and some other stuff on the internet I do think some are taking the isolated tidbits of good military news as evidence of something more than it is. Even though Ukraine has had some success, the strategic situation is untenable. Russia has invaded an absolutely huge country in both land area and population, and are fighting in the capital by the 48 hour mark. Within the next few days Ukrainian air assets will be gone and Russia will have completely air superiority. Ukrainan forces will be exhausted from fighting, while Russia can rotate in fresh troops. While I hope there's an insurgency, Ukraine is a very flat country. The topography is pretty much the opposite of Afghanistan or Switzerland, and the climate is very different from Vietnam. It would not be an easy place for the guerilla side of an insurgency. The Nazis did have issues dealing with insurgencies, but they also successfully occupied most of europe and were beaten by conventional armies - not partisan revolts. The Ukranian people are incredibly brave, but Russia can and will grind Ukranian military forces down. Molotovs and civillians sniping from windows won't stop Russia in Kiev anymore than it did in Grozny. An iron curtain around Russia that makes Putin's war domestically incredibly unpopular to the point where it destabilizes the regime is probably Ukraines best hope. That responsibility should weigh very heavy on the shoulders of all western governments. The seeds that were sown in 1968 caused tremendous problems for USSR later on, and we can only hope this invasion spells out the same fate for Putin's regime.

Rad Russian
Aug 15, 2007

Soviet Power Supreme!
Not sure if people mentioned Taiwan stopping chip shipments to Russia but that might actually be a big development, especially with the current shortages. All modern military equipment needs chips. While Russia is usually resistant to trade embargoes because they make all their mil hardware internally, they might not be able to for much longer. Whatever equipment they have in Ukraine is it for a while.

hump day bitches!
Apr 3, 2011


OctaMurk posted:

This is the largest ever war between two countries that contain McDonalds, incidentally

There used to be an old thing about countries with McDonalds never going to war with each to support the expansion of neoliberalism and peace through economic integration.

The end of history was a stupid lie.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

KitConstantine posted:

Looks like Russia forgot about Odessa in their initial hits on anti-aircraft positions

https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1497422249443405826?t=7FpNxlNpI3f3ovUl5jtcoA&s=19

They were too busy bombing a civilian industrial equipment plant for that. That's one angle that I think people may be missing --- a lot of the country's industrial capacity may be gone.

Despera
Jun 6, 2011
Does the Mcdonald's ice cream machine work though?

the popes toes
Oct 10, 2004

OddObserver posted:

They were too busy bombing a civilian industrial equipment plant for that. That's one angle that I think people may be missing --- a lot of the country's industrial capacity may be gone.

Brown and Root checking in. We've got an app for that.

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.


FishBulbia posted:



McDonalds is still being held, there is hope here


OctaMurk posted:

This is the largest ever war between two countries that contain McDonalds, incidentally


this thread's made me want mcD's for lunch tomorrow even though their grease makes me feel sick. think they might be sponsoring the invasion?

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Mooseontheloose posted:

The CNN Generals pointed out that Kyiv is around 2 million people which is the size of Chicago. It was never going to be easy to take.

Famous CNN geography skills. Kyiv has 3 million official population and is 2/3 the size of LA.

FishBulbia
Dec 22, 2021

hump day bitches! posted:

There used to be an old thing about countries with McDonalds never going to war with each to support the expansion of neoliberalism and peace through economic integration.

The end of history was a stupid lie.

It was Thomas Friedman

Who about a week ago proposed that Biden had stared Putin down

He's actually a great analysist, usually the exact opposite of what happens comes true, its honestly remarkable

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Dante posted:

Russia has invaded an absolutely huge country in both land area and population, and are fighting in the capital by the 48 hour mark.

For all your authoritative doom tone you seem unaware that Kiev is very close to the Belarusian border.
This is like acting shocked that an American invasion of Canada would quickly reach Ottawa.

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012


Every time I hear "There will never be an insurgency because there's no jungles or mountains" like, do you think that stopped Iraq? Baghdad isn't exactly a mountainous jungle.

Tomberforce
May 30, 2006

Despera posted:

Does the Mcdonald's ice cream machine work though?

I guess problematic for the idea that no two countries with a McDonald's have ever gone to war...

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Famous CNN geography skills. Kyiv has 3 million official population and is 2/3 the size of LA.

Eh, blame me more than CNN, cause wikipedia says they have 2.7 million people.

Dante
Feb 8, 2003

hump day bitches! posted:

There used to be an old thing about countries with McDonalds never going to war with each to support the expansion of neoliberalism and peace through economic integration.

The end of history was a stupid lie.

That's a Thomas Friedman column, and he later expanded this "argument" somewhat in a book. The end of history argument by Fukuyama relates to something entirely different.

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

FishBulbia posted:



McDonalds is still being held, there is hope here

What's the source for this map?

Also, keep posting live streams if anyone have any with anything interesting. All the ones I've seen just have empty streets and crows screaming.

FishBulbia
Dec 22, 2021

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Every time I hear "There will never be an insurgency because there's no jungles or mountains" like, do you think that stopped Iraq? Baghdad isn't exactly a mountainous jungle.

Yup.

It is honestly remarkable that someone who came to power in 2000 would be so cavalier toward the threat of insurgents.

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

Dante posted:

Reading this thread and some other stuff on the internet I do think some are taking the isolated tidbits of good military news as evidence of something more than it is. Even though Ukraine has had some success, the strategic situation is untenable. Russia has invaded an absolutely huge country in both land area and population, and are fighting in the capital by the 48 hour mark.

I wonder if the fact that they've reached the capital has anything to do with the capital being you know, not very far at all from the Belorussian border, where the Russians are invading from. It doesn't say as much as I think you believe it does.

Peanut Butler
Jul 25, 2003



Grape posted:

Nope, just checked. Quiet again. (Because I checked.)

this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teF2f1DkeEQ

maybe the audio icon is on the wrong panel, idk

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Every time I hear "There will never be an insurgency because there's no jungles or mountains" like, do you think that stopped Iraq? Baghdad isn't exactly a mountainous jungle.

If only there had been really violent conflict in this part of the world previously, conflict that had widespread "partisan" activity for instance.
But I guess there's no way of knowing.

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ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

hump day bitches! posted:

The end of history was a stupid lie.

History is dialectical, that was always a capitalist lie. An obvious one at that.

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