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steinrokkan posted:The pipelines going through Ukraine are not used to sell gas to Germany. Yamal leads through Belarus. https://twitter.com/tmarzecmanser/status/1497478906148016129?cxt=HHwWgsC-ubLIjsgpAAAA Yeah, and Yamal has been secondary to German purchases. Since December 21, Gazprom had only shipped gas into Germany via NordStream 1, if I understand correctly.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:05
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FishBulbia posted:No fly zone is literally just a Western media euphemism for an air war. Counterpoint: 'No fly zone' is the logical evolution of the 'shoo fly dont bother me zone'
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Feb 26, 2022 18:05
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acidx posted:This little game you guys are playing works both ways. If the US declares that starting at x time any plane flying in Ukrainian airspace will be shot down, then it would be Russia who would then be choosing to escalate the situation if they continued to fly, leaving the US no option but to shoot down Russian jets. Thats not how any of this works. I realize that a lot of military related stuff is not common knowledge but people in this thread have had incredibly stupid takes and understandings of how things work. My favorite so far was the "What if the Ukrainians like hopped across the border to Poland and just kept firing???" Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Feb 26, 2022 |
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Feb 26, 2022 18:05
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FishBulbia posted:How'd they deal with air defenses in Belarus? In this nonsense scenario: by dropping bombs on them.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:06
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uXs posted:In this nonsense scenario: by dropping bombs on them. Oh okay, bombing countries is generally considered an act of war. I think we should just assume that the Russian will understand this is a limiteed humanitarian intervention and not respond.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:07
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Samopsa posted:https://twitter.com/phoenix_de/status/1497576367898214405?t=npQD8zz84i8CPeZzic8-aQ&s=19 loving Morawiecki, he must be thanking his lucky stars for this poo poo. Rankings were tanking, inflation was going up, EU was going to cut funding, but now suddenly everyone's eyes are on Ukraine and he can play the wise statesman. SourKraut posted:Honestly after all of this, I think I can say that I really love and respect the hell out of Poland. Reminder that the Polish ruling party are all turbochuds. You do not gotta hand it to them.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:07
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Bashez posted:A congressman brought it up on TV so now people are talking about it. Also, a congressman who is a hawk and a pariah within the GOP
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Feb 26, 2022 18:08
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Owlkill posted:There's also been British Typhoons, although from what I've seen it looks like they're there as escorts for the RAF's tankers until they get on station. I really wonder what the logic is behind having transponders on/off. 100% there is still Rivet Joints flying around right now, we just can't see them.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:08
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Yeah, the current Polish government is scum barely better than Putin. And they are holding majority of the population hostage and disenfranchised.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:08
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FishBulbia posted:There is no guarantee that driving into a wall at 80 mph will kill me either First of all, I am not advocating for a military confrontation between NATO and Russia, that would be… well not loving good. All I am saying is you have to assume state actors are at least rational enough that they don’t really want to destroy the world, otherwise, like I said… The first leader of a nuclear power who figures out they have convinced you that if you fight them they will use nuclear weapons, they can take over the world without firing a shot.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:09
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acidx posted:This little game you guys are playing works both ways. If the US declares that starting at x time any plane flying in Ukrainian airspace will be shot down, then it would be Russia who would then be choosing to escalate the situation if they continued to fly, leaving the US no option but to shoot down Russian jets. No, it wouldn't. Also, that distinction doesn't actually matter at all since the end result is the same?
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Feb 26, 2022 18:09
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uXs posted:In this nonsense scenario: by dropping bombs on them. I’d like to ask everyone to calm down with playing out a “hypothetical” US-Russia war over a would-be Ukrainian NFZ.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:10
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FizFashizzle posted:Just had a dark thought. For maybe the first time we’re going to see what happens when patriotic anti occupation resistance synergies with readily available social media clout chasing. #TwoRussianChallenge As a civilian, can you live stream taking out two invaders before being killed.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:10
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sad question posted:
This is currently a valid strategy in the Early Access Cold War RTS game Warno (that is set during a hypothetical Russian invasion into West Germany in 1989) where you take unloaded transport vehicles and drive them into enemy territory to scout. Maybe Russian top brass have been playing too much Warno?
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Feb 26, 2022 18:10
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They just sent one unit into the fog of war like it's an RTS game?
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Popete posted:This is currently a valid strategy in the Early Access Cold War RTS game Warno (that is set during a hypothetical Russian invasion into West Germany in 1989) where you take unloaded transport vehicles and drive them into enemy territory to scout. They're a big fan of helo rushing, thats for sure!
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Feb 26, 2022 18:11
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DaysBefore posted:Aside from this and short pieces on Khrakiv and Kherson I've seen basically no footage of the regular Ukranian Army doing anything, which I guess is a good thing thing because it means their media blackout might be working? There is a well-publicized incident in donbas where the Russians used a cell phone to aim artillery. They figured out who the mother of an ukrainian officer who they wanted to kill was, sent her a message that his son was dead, then waited for her to frantically call him, them fired artillery on the location of the cell phone she called, killing him. This story is now a part of Ukrainian military training. The message is very clear: If you are at the front, keep your cell phones off unless you want to die. a pipe smoking dog posted:That is very interesting as I'd assumed at some point they were going to have to try and shut the border to stop arms arriving from Poland. That's not feasible after the convoys of arms started arriving, because, surprise surprise, the troops near the Polish border were suddenly the best armed units in the country. Also quite numerous, because of all the people who are flocking in from the Polish side/getting conscripted on the Ukrainian side of the border. Although I would probably consider the forces who tried to leave but got stopped on the border to be among some of the least realiable that are available. Sinteres posted:I'd say I think the West is going to get some payback for this next time the US goes on an adventure, but the US got away with doing it in Afghanistan without Russia really doing the same elsewhere, so maybe not. Er, Russia has abso-loving-lutely done this to the US in almost every conflict US had been in? Where do you think the Taleban got all their weapons from? They didn't beat the US with their granpa's Jezails. FizFashizzle posted:I’m not saying the us didn’t commit war crimes (like incinerating a retreating column of troops) US totally did a lot of warcrimes, but shooting at retreating troops is not a warcrime. If you don't want to get shot at, you need to either explicitly surrender, or be deemed hors-de-combat by a few clearly defined conditions. "Running away" is very explicitly not one of them. the popes toes posted:To illustrate how difficult it is to uncouple, Russian gas is still transiting Ukraine, carried by their pipeline, and being sold to Germany. Now. At this minute. Note that this is probably not something that the Ukrainians want to stop. They are siphoning from this flow to run a lot of their own economy. If Germany stops buying, there will be no reason for Russia to keep pumping.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:12
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https://twitter.com/Andy_Scollick/status/1497617089749737475 Defence consultant. https://twitter.com/noraneus/status/1497610338744864770 https://twitter.com/Porter_Anderson/status/1497609633342668806 the CNN correspondent showing Russian frontline movements on air continues Ukraine now really needs for these advances to overextend themselves, which is probably why they are urging civilians to attack fuel convoys. That threat doesn't need to be actually real for Russia to be obliged to spend a lot more resources defending a long, snaking supply chain ronya fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Feb 26, 2022 |
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Feb 26, 2022 18:12
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szary posted:Reminder that the Polish ruling party are all turbochuds. You do not gotta hand it to them. I was mostly just thinking of the Polish people in general as a country, not so much the government. But I have definitely become more educated on the Polish government via this thread even.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:12
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Are you guys seriously talking about NATO establishing a no-fly zone? Like do you think it's something that can actually happen? Or is it just that thinking about it excites you? Also, I don't see conventional Ukrainian forces surviving past day 7. I'm also hoping that there's going to be peace talks, and soon. Otherwise, this will turn into a loving quagmire (as designed), and shitloads upon shitloads of people - Ukrainians, Russians and loads of other nationalities - will loving die some horrific, horrific deaths. Which, of course, would be a preferable options both for NATO and for people whose peepee gets hard when they watch combat footage (especially when there are dead bodies) (I feel there's quite a few dead body enjoyers posting in this here thread), but it's a complete loving nightmare scenario for anyone currently living in Ukraine (or who has friends and relatives there). (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 26, 2022 18:14
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ronya posted:
Theres been conflicting reports but even if some of them are true it appears that theres been only a couple of cities that have been taken, the rest have been bypassed. We dont have a good idea of Ukranian military deployment but in theory the troops stationed in cities that got bypassed could leave and hit supply convoys.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:16
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ronya posted:Ukraine now really needs for these advances to overextend themselves, which is probably why they are urging civilians to attack fuel convoys. That threat doesn't need to be actually real for Russia to be obliged to spend a lot more resources defending a long, snaking supply chain I fear this part is going to have some really ugly outcomes.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:17
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Honestly, shut the gently caress up about no fly zones and move on.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:18
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 https://twitter.com/Buckarobanza/status/1497590811445317636 Ukrainian ambulance blown up as EMTs try to save a wounded man (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 26, 2022 18:18
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nurmie posted:Like do you think it's something that can actually happen? Or is it just that thinking about it excites you? It's this. Adam Kinzinger made a poo poo post about it, that's all.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:18
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Telsa Cola posted:Theres been conflicting reports but even if some of them are true it appears that theres been only a couple of cities that have been taken, the rest have been bypassed. As far as we can tell, only 1 noteworthy city has fallen to Russians as of noon today - Melitopol’, in the Crimean frontline, where Russia has established the greatest foothold.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:18
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ronya posted:Ukraine now really needs for these advances to overextend themselves, which is probably why they are urging civilians to attack fuel convoys. That threat doesn't need to be actually real for Russia to be obliged to spend a lot more resources defending a long, snaking supply chain The Lawrence of Ukrainia strategy. 
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Feb 26, 2022 18:19
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I'm getting really worried that Russia has had enough and are going to level Kyiv and any other city that resists.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:20
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uXs posted:The Baltics _are_ NATO. We're all but openly driving weapons into Ukraine, not a NATO member. If you think we'd just retreat from the Baltics, there's just no way. Right, I think the argument is here if you operate on the assumption that "if NATO confronts Russia with conventional forces in any circumstance, Putin/the Russian Federation will deploy nuclear weapons and immediately escalate to strategic nuclear weapons use" then that puts NATO in the position of having to decide, "do we actually defend the Baltics, because if we do we are ending the world?" Then, again, assuming that state actors are mostly rational and do not want to end the world, ignoring your treaty obligations to those NATO states will start making a lot of sense.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:20
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nurmie posted:Are you guys seriously talking about NATO establishing a no-fly zone? nurmie posted:Like do you think it's something that can actually happen? Or is it just that thinking about it excites you? And clearly the general responses from most should demonstrate it doesn't excite anyone, but if it were something that could be done with a 0% chance of causing a greater and/or nuclear war, then it wouldn't be the worst thing since it would force Russia to re-evaluate their commitment to this invasion. nurmie posted:Also, I don't see conventional Ukrainian forces surviving past day 7. I'm also hoping that there's going to be peace talks, and soon. Otherwise, this will turn into a loving quagmire (as designed), and shitloads upon shitloads of people - Ukrainians, Russians and loads of other nationalities - will loving die some horrific, horrific deaths. Which, of course, would be a preferable options both for NATO and for people whose peepee gets hard when they watch combat footage (especially when there are dead bodies) (I feel there's quite a few dead body enjoyers posting in this here thread), but it's a complete loving nightmare scenario for anyone currently living in Ukraine (or who has friends and relatives there). Your post seems to be more pro-Russia/tankie than it is anything else with how this was worded. If NATO leadership really lusted for "horrific, horrific deaths" as you said, they'd have begun direct military confrontation with Russia. Nothing that NATO has done so far supports anything that you're saying, and it seems more like a "I hate NATO so I'm going to rattle off nonsense" than anything else. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 26, 2022 18:21
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 Final warning to WW3 Clancychat conversation.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:22
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Hey folks, if you haven't donated already to support Ukraine against fascist invasion, you've still got time to get the extra reward of a sweet gang tag! While it's nothing but an incredibly silly token, it's a tiny candle in the darkness and a reminder of those fighting for their freedom.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:22
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Ukraine is now accepting donations in Cryptocurrency. Maybe this is more accessible way of donating for some. https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1497594592438497282?cxt=HHwWhMC9vZyWw8gpAAAA
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Feb 26, 2022 18:23
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SourKraut posted:Your post seems to be more pro-Russia/tankie than it is anything else with how this was worded. It really didn't.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:23
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cinci zoo sniper posted:
Amen. It's is really a pointless conversation to have, especially over, and over, and over again.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:23
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TheRat posted:It really didn't. It really did though, with the talks about NATO's "peen" growing big at horrific deaths and needing to include Russia in every line that also referenced Ukraine's suffering. Ukraine's current situation and horrible circumstances are because of Russia - there's no need to sympathize with Russia right now.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:25
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Is there a thought from Russia that once this war is over that European countries are going to end their sanctions and go back to business as usual? Cause I would think the sanctions should take hold but I bet Russian propaganda would say the west just wants to make the people or Russia suffer while the oligarchs and Putin somehow still enjoy some decent life. Otherwise I don’t see how this doesn’t harm Russia greatly in all areas even with allies. I suppose Putin is committed and can’t back down now unless made to and then he’d have to lose his next election or resign.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:25
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Trump posted:I'm getting really worried that Russia has had enough and are going to level Kyiv and any other city that resists. This is not aligned with their political objectives of being seen as liberators toppling a corrupt, unpopular government. If they start annihilating civilians en masse, then the morale of the troops and populace will completely collapse and the resolve of the Ukrainians will only be strengthened.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:25
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Gatts posted:Is there a thought from Russia that once this war is over that European countries are going to end their sanctions and go back to business as usual? Cause I would think the sanctions should take hold but I bet Russian propaganda would say the west just wants to make the people or Russia suffer while the oligarchs and Putin somehow still enjoy some decent life. Europe is so dependent on Russian gas that they won't cut off imports or the finances to pay for them. Any sanctions that don't cut off gas sales will have limited effect.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:27
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Eh nvm
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Feb 26, 2022 18:27
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Gatts posted:Is there a thought from Russia that once this war is over that European countries are going to end their sanctions and go back to business as usual? Cause I would think the sanctions should take hold but I bet Russian propaganda would say the west just wants to make the people or Russia suffer while the oligarchs and Putin somehow still enjoy some decent life. Once this is over - one way or another - sanctions will die down over time because Europe is 100% reliant on Russian gas and oil.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:28
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