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ronya posted:Drifting o/t, but I think about this headline sometimes: Absolutely, and it goes both ways. Conservatives and free market liberals regularly cheer when fascists invade or rise up inside socialist nations.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:35
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Mokotow posted:They’re not only bad at military stuff, but diplomacy too, it seems. Yanukovich is literally “shoot on sight” for 80% of Ukrainians. Yeah if it's true that seems like a very dumb idea by Russia - "How about the guy who had to flee the country and got convicted of high treason in absentia??"
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Mar 7, 2022 15:36
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with a rebel yell she QQd posted:Casual shopping. Brought some amour to avoid another door situation, huh.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:36
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PederP posted:Absolutely, and it goes both ways. Conservatives and free market liberals regularly cheer when fascists invade or rise up inside socialist nations. I'm always curious when people post stuff like this. What current countries do you consider to be a socialist nation right now?
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Mar 7, 2022 15:37
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Atreiden posted:That doesn't make Denmark neutral, we are very much a close ally of the U.S. and followed them on non-nato missions such as the second Iraq war. We are apparently also going to have a referendum on our opt-out of the EU defense in June. iirc Denmark also carried out a disproportionate share of the air strikes in Libya.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:39
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Fame Douglas posted:The truth is that reflection is of some flowers and he clearly was in a room with those flight attendants. There's no reason to invent this dumb conspiracy theory based on a cherry-picked frame of a reflection and some compression artifacts. Maybe, maybe not. The reality is that Russian state media is fundamentally untrustworthy, and cannot really substantiate any claim or video.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:39
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Atreiden posted:In what world is Denmark, a founding member of NATO neutral? Denmark is formally a member of NATO, but has opt-outs (no bases, no nuclear warheads, and no military exercises on Danish territory) and formally a member of the EU, but has opt-outs to its defence commitments there too so it's a one point in the constellation of possible options when one envisions 'neutral' - cherrypicking the conditions of membership
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Mar 7, 2022 15:40
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Dante posted:Yeah if it's true that seems like a very dumb idea by Russia - "How about the guy who had to flee the country and got convicted of high treason in absentia??" It’s not even the legalities of it that are the problem. He is genuinely hated by people of Ukraine, due to backstabbing them over a Russian objection to the EU deal back in 2013. That was essentially the singular cause for Euromaidan revolution.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:40
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Updated numbers for protestors arrested in Russia yesterday https://twitter.com/RFERL/status/1500843023709745152?t=ROkSXvVsizBJOI3bNofxsQ&s=19
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Mar 7, 2022 15:40
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KitConstantine posted:Updated numbers for protestors arrested in Russia yesterday Kuril citizens never disappoint me.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:41
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Perhaps the Russians aren't taking negotiation seriously.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:42
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I'm really awed by the courage of those protesters in Russia. Current government is unable to think about anyone voicing displeasure on their action as not being in one of 2 groups: manipulated idiots or malicious foreign agents. I doubt I'd have their courage.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:44
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Of course, rhetorical, but wholly lacking in any concilliatory sense, which I think is the message. https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1500817848968654850?cxt=HHwWhMC9hbn4_NMpAAAA
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Mar 7, 2022 15:50
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Blue Footed Booby posted:iirc Denmark also carried out a disproportionate share of the air strikes in Libya. Yup we were on of the countries that ran out of bombs there.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:50
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barbecue at the folks posted:Lots of people here advocating rolling over instead of fighting actual honest-to-God fascists, as if those fascists hadn't already declared that they're gonna start disappearing everyone opposing them the second resistance stops. Do you fight for the chance to remain free or cower the rest of your life in fear of a murderous basement-dwelling nutso and his goons in jackboots? Show some honesty and just admit you're advocating that an entire nation should submit to being dominated by a sad old spook with a penchant for poisoning underwear and be done with it. The calculus of whether to fight or not rests entirely on what the Ukrainians value - life and property vs a political arrangement with the West which might not ever happen. No one is advocating for surrender. Most of us advocating for Ukraine to seek some sort of negotiated settlement are just hoping Zelensky isn't once again banking on the West to come through and save his country and that what he ends up with after 6 months of seeing his country turned into pancake mix with millions fleeing the country isn't significantly different from what a negotiated peace might look like. After all it is much easier to go full internet keyboard warrior mode and advocate giving the Russians nothing when your cities aren't being shelled. If Zelensky and the Ukrainians wish to continue fighting for their future as a part if the West then by all means continue. I remember though how bitter Zelensky was when NATO just sort of looked around awkwardly with hands in pocket when the Russians attacked and how much more bitter it might feel when NATO/EU might cave to Russian demands for energy wrt to limiting what institutions Ukraine can join after 6 months of war.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:53
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KitConstantine posted:The peace negotiations are being held on the Belarusian border. Look who seems to be in Belarus Unless it's his personal plane that he has been owning and operating ever since, there's no reason to believe Yanukovich is there. Rather someone high in the current Ukrainian government is there.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:54
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Ola posted:Unless it's his personal plane that he has been owning and operating ever since, there's no reason to believe Yanukovich is there. Rather someone high in the current Ukrainian government is there. I think you misunderstand. That plane is flying from Russia to Belarus. Who ever it is it isnt Ukr.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:56
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MikeC posted:The calculus of whether to fight or not rests entirely on what the Ukrainians value - life and property vs a political arrangement with the West which might not ever happen. No one is advocating for surrender. Most of us advocating for Ukraine to seek some sort of negotiated settlement are just hoping Zelensky isn't once again banking on the West to come through and save his country and that what he ends up with after 6 months of seeing his country turned into pancake mix with millions fleeing the country isn't significantly different from what a negotiated peace might look like. Russia's current offers have been and have always been "roll over and die" and have not been interested in negotiating one bit so it doesn't really make any sense to go "OH TAKE THE OFFER NOW".
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Mar 7, 2022 15:57
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ronya posted:Denmark is formally a member of NATO, but has opt-outs (no bases, no nuclear warheads, and no military exercises on Danish territory) and formally a member of the EU, but has opt-outs to its defence commitments there too Stop with the bad takes and talking out your rear end. Denmark is 100% a member of NATO. We have military exercises routinely with NATO partners, we had several NATO installations during the cold war, the HQ for LANDJUT was in Karup as an example. We've been one of the core members of KFOR, we bombed Afghanistan in 2001, we had combat forces deployed as part of ISAF (and had the most KIA per capita), we bombed Libya so much we ran out of bombs. We have an opt-out when it comes to EU defense policy and we do not wish to house nuclear weapons in peacetime.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:58
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Dante posted:I'm always curious when people post stuff like this. What current countries do you consider to be a socialist nation right now? I was talking about the historical context. The post mentioned events of the second world war. What nations right are now socialist and/or to what extent those who claim to be, are so, is very much out of scope for this thread, I think. But another way to put it then without invoking the spectre of socialism: 'a lot of people are bad and will happily cheer their preferred enemy getting chewed up by someone they should, in principle, also oppose'. The perverted truth of what the old 'enemy of my enemy' thing can also represent. I just wanted to highlight it's a human thing, and not at all restricted to socialists. Trump posted:Stop with the bad takes and talking out your rear end. To be fair, the so called 'footnote' policy era was a thing, and Denmark was a weirdly bothersome member of NATO back then. But that is very much in the past. I agree with your points on the current state of Danish NATO membership.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:58
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MikeC posted:The calculus of whether to fight or not rests entirely on what the Ukrainians value - life and property vs a political arrangement with the West which might not ever happen. No one is advocating for surrender. Most of us advocating for Ukraine to seek some sort of negotiated settlement are just hoping Zelensky isn't once again banking on the West to come through and save his country and that what he ends up with after 6 months of seeing his country turned into pancake mix with millions fleeing the country isn't significantly different from what a negotiated peace might look like. Nice cool post from 1939
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Mar 7, 2022 15:58
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dumbass, ignore.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:58
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In related news, Ireland just invaded Russian soil https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1500838594671529993?t=Xwa8MvipSL3DdeXKX81CXQ&s=19
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Mar 7, 2022 15:59
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lol, I just read what that Russia's list of unfriendly states means - Russians, Russian companies and the public sector who have debts to those countries are allowed to pay them in rubles  I'm sure that will go well... 'here's a sack of toilet paper with some Cyrillic text on them, a Russian always pays his debt'
Nenonen fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Mar 7, 2022 |
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Mar 7, 2022 16:00
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KitConstantine posted:The peace negotiations are being held on the Belarusian border. Look who seems to be in Belarus Something that is conveniently forgotten by all the posters frantically both-sides-ing on peace terms is that Putin's goal from the very start was to either: 1. Dismantle and assimilate Ukraine piece by piece, -or- 2. Headshot their democratically-elected national government and reinstall his own puppet - you know, the one that literally fled Ukraine because the people he spent months brutalizing at Maidan failed to buckle. Option 1 failed early on thanks to Ukrainian and Western intelligence spoiling his DNR/LNR astroturf campaign, so he got impatient and went for option 2. Even under the guise of peace talks, he's clearly still pursuing one or both, because it's never really been about "liberating the people of Ukraine". MikeC posted:After all it is much easier to go full internet keyboard warrior mode and advocate giving the Russians nothing when your cities aren't being shelled. It's easy to be an internet keyboard warrior calling for appeasement when you're not the target of violent annexation by a repressive autocracy. Negotiating with Russia at this point is like catching someone stealing your car out of your driveway and "negotiating" to allow them to take one set of keys instead.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:01
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https://twitter.com/andydoconnor/status/1500840964021182470
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Mar 7, 2022 16:01
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Zhanism posted:I think you misunderstand. That plane is flying from Russia to Belarus. Who ever it is it isnt Ukr. Yes I misunderstood, thanks. Then it could definitely be him, or whoever else the Russians in all their wisdom think the Ukrainians will accept as puppet.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:01
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Ola posted:Yes I misunderstood, thanks. Then it could definitely be him, or whoever else the Russians in all their wisdom think the Ukrainians will accept as puppet. Putting Yanukovych back in place would pretty much be guaranteed to ensure the war continues.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:03
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The sign on the windshield appears to be referencing the murder of women and children by Russian Soldiers with accompanying pictures...
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Mar 7, 2022 16:03
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Dante posted:I'm always curious when people post stuff like this. What current countries do you consider to be a socialist nation right now? The poster you're responding to is almost surely referring to a situation like Bolivia 2018-2020 wherein you had one candidate framed as a Castro-Chavez-ish socialist strongman and opposing forces framed as Pinochet-ish capitalist fascist vampires, and the election was framed as contested, with apparent institutional irregularities (term limits and the court, weird vote counting stuff, the military being sort of involved in a coup but also sort of not, contested leadership claims, etc.) And it would be fair to characterize the conversation about it in the Anglosphere or global north as either "My guy won, which is good because the other guy was corrupt and tried to cheat" or "My guy lost, but only because the other guy was corrupt and cheated", and as best as I can tell everyone's opinion about the institutional health and fairness of the democracy was subsumed by their views on sort of broadly socialist/capitalist and anti-American/pro-American foreign posture. My position as a comparativist is that presidential democracy is generally a bad design, term limits are good but not necessary, abolishing term limits so that the person subject to them can run again is basically always illegitimate, the court was wrong to allow Morales to run, and there was probably minor fraud in the tallying; but the coupists were mostly antidemocratic and some of them borderline fascist, and even before the coup there was likely plurality-majority support for MAS and a broadly left/US-skeptical posture. I'm glad the end result was Arce in charge, but the entire affair likely hurt Bolivia and I wouldn't be surprised to see more aftershocks because of it. Whether or not you actually consider Bolivia to be socialist or not is sort of academic because presumably you understand the basic parameters of the dispute and how people talked about it.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:03
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Look at all that graffiti too. Are Russian embassies elsewhere in a similar state?
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Mar 7, 2022 16:03
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Thoughts and prayers for Zenrus admin, sanctions against and divestments from Russian gas, oil, and coal are coming in as early as tomorrow, due to casualties inflicted upon Ukrainian civilians. I don't understand this  What's "Zenrus admin"? But in general, this is good news. Now if only the EU made serious plans to divest from all fossil fuels.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:04
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Major sanction package is happening this week
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Mar 7, 2022 16:05
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Cenodoxus posted:It's easy to be an internet keyboard warrior calling for appeasement when you're not the target of violent annexation by a repressive autocracy. Armchair pacifist? In other news, Russian Federal reserves to remain unchanged for the next 3 months. Or at least the reported number won't change https://twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1500846630236471298?t=fZu4sBzYtH_UlG5MxrfrlA&s=19
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Mar 7, 2022 16:05
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PederP posted:To be fair, the so called 'footnote' policy era was a thing, and Denmark was a weirdly bothersome member of NATO back then. But that is very much in the past. I agree with your points on the current state of Danish NATO membership. And the danish society is still saddled by a weird anti-militaristic sentiment (1864 is 150 years ago, let it go people), but it's changing.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:06
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Man Plan Canal posted:Whether or not you actually consider Bolivia to be socialist or not is sort of academic because presumably you understand the basic parameters of the dispute and how people talked about it. I'm wondering which current countries are considered socialist nations by the people who use the term, which is why I asked about that. Presumably they are referring to something!
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Mar 7, 2022 16:09
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MikeC posted:The calculus of whether to fight or not rests entirely on what the Ukrainians value - life and property vs a political arrangement with the West which might not ever happen. “Life” where they’re not allowed to make decisions for themselves versus the respective liberties. It’s really tiresome to see people repeatedly imply that Ukraine has no agency of its own.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:10
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Dante posted:Yeah if it's true that seems like a very dumb idea by Russia - "How about the guy who had to flee the country and got convicted of high treason in absentia??" there's no way russia would install him. not because ukraine hates him (that's a bonus) but precisely because he fled and collapsed their efforts to control ukraine instead of holding out and asking for aid. they want someone who is, well, not going to do that the instant the going gets tough because it's definitely going to get tough for an attempted russian puppet government
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Mar 7, 2022 16:11
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NTRabbit posted:Surely now that the Treaty of Versailles is signed, Germany will never attack France again Whether or not a Danegeld is worthwhile depends on whether you think you will use the time it affords you better than the vikings. So I guess the calculation here is whether or not, if they pay off Putin to not invade for a few years, they can build up their armed forces to the point Russia will be unable to invade again.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:11
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Trump posted:And the danish society is still saddled by a weird anti-militaristic sentiment (1864 is 150 years ago, let it go people), but it's changing. Also an abysmal treatment of returning veterans, because of stereotyping them as violent sociopaths, when the majority are big, dumb kids who want to go on an adventure.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:11
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