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Atreiden posted:Seriously wtf is wrong with Germany. If it wasn't such a serious situation this would be great comedy. lol a firmware update definitely takes six months Are they trying to download the update using a 9600 bit/s modem?
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Jun 9, 2022 11:31
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Nenonen posted:lol a firmware update definitely takes six months You’re about to discover something about internet in Germany. 
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Jun 9, 2022 11:33
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PederP posted:For the same reason we cannot argue in favor of direct intervention in this thread: nukes. Duda's quote specifically mentions that if we're afraid of nukes, we might as well surrender now, so he's happy to verbally dismiss the threat while not engaging
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Jun 9, 2022 11:34
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"Doesn't the German govt. believe that Russians can march into Berlin and occupy parts of Germany?" Sit down Mr President, that is one thing noone belives these days d64 posted:Imo it's in bad taste and off the mark to compare Putin to Hitler. If the Polish govt believes they are the same, why are they standing by then? Why are they not fighting along with Ukraine in that case, instead of taking aim at Germany? It's just cheap rhetoric. I mean it's a cheap shot but both are genocidal dictators who started a war on their neighbors to wipe them (well, part of them) out. The Third Reich had a bit more "backstage" then compared to the paper tiger that Russia appears. Also Poland has been doing a lot to help, sending equipment, hosting refugees and providing a lot of training grounds for people who then go back to Ukraine to fight with the gear other countries provide. We cannot directly intervene as Polish soldiers killed by Russian soldiers could be seen as provoking a large scale conflict by our allies, who could then refuse to help further, or worse, stop the help they are providing now. There's already a lot of talk about the Article 5 thing and the image of Poland is mostly "yeah kurwa let's go kill Ruskie yeeeeeeeeee". So we kind of have to stay put to show that we are not exactly that. That way we can put pressure on countries with more resources to help.
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Jun 9, 2022 11:34
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Nenonen posted:lol a firmware update definitely takes six months Apparently this is the source but I can't find the thing about the SW update: https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2022-05/ukraine-russland-krieg-news-liveblog
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Jun 9, 2022 11:42
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Nenonen posted:lol a firmware update definitely takes six months As VW owners about software updates, six months is a rush job.
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Jun 9, 2022 11:43
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Ola posted:As VW owners about software updates, six months is a rush job. Presumably military stuff doesn't need the cheat at emission tests functionality taking up development resources.
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Jun 9, 2022 11:56
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Is there any value to this article or is it just propaganda? The real Zelensky: from celebrity populist to unpopular Pinochet-style neolibera I'm extremely leery of the Grayzone these days and I had a look at the author's site, it seems to be invariably repeating Russian talking points to such a degree I think its probably just on the payroll of Moscow: https://natyliesbaldwin.com/
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Jun 9, 2022 11:59
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Atreiden posted:Seriously wtf is wrong with Germany. If it wasn't such a serious situation this would be great comedy. Not surprised. Adding new features to the firmware of such a complicated piece of machinery in just a few month is pretty good. Since it's also a very dangerous mass murdering device, the testing and certification process for the changes is probably insane.
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Jun 9, 2022 12:02
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Cantide posted:Apparently this is the source but I can't find the thing about the SW update: You have to scroll all the way back to yesterday at 14:49. Machine translated: quote:German arms deliveries could be delayed until winter
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Jun 9, 2022 12:03
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khwarezm posted:Is there any value to this article or is it just propaganda? Zelensky wasn't very popular before the war, but I wouldn't trust the Grayzone even if they said that water is wet. Doesn't really matter now anyway.
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Jun 9, 2022 12:06
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Atreiden posted:You have to scroll all the way back to yesterday at 14:49. Thanks so the Original quote "not before winter" isn't entirely correct. Still disappointing
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Jun 9, 2022 12:15
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d64 posted:Imo it's in bad taste and off the mark to compare Putin to Hitler. If the Polish govt believes they are the same, why are they standing by then? Why are they not fighting along with Ukraine in that case, instead of taking aim at Germany? It's just cheap rhetoric. Hitler didn't have nukes. The Allies were loving terrified that he was close to one. The axis had advanced heavy water manufacturing plus working V-2 rockets, it was only a matter of time
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Jun 9, 2022 12:18
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Dug up the business insider article that was the source for Zeit and Visegrad and it's a bit more damning, it goes into more details with more German promises. https://www.businessinsider.de/poli...chland-steht-a/ Old news for this thread quote:Iris-T air defense system: After weeks of pressure, Chancellor Olaf Scholz (SPD) announced in the Bundestag last week that Ukraine should get the Iris-T air defense system. He did not give details. According to Business Insider, the news apparently came as a surprise not only to the Ministry of Defense, but also to Egypt. Because the Egyptian government had ordered several systems in Germany, one of which it is now supposed to do without in favor of Ukraine. But government circles say that the Iris-T system for Ukraine should not be ready for use until November or even December. Regarding Marder and Greek BPM's quote:But the Greeks are said to have been surprised by the Chancellor's announcement, so there is a lot of trouble behind the scenes. Because the BPM tanks are mainly stationed on the Greek islands. The government in Athens fears that Turkey could see an exchange with modern Marder vehicles as an affront in foreign policy - and that the next military conflict in Europe would arise. and the MARS II quote:Multiple rocket launcher Mars II: Scholz had also announced multiple rocket launchers in his Bundestag speech. They can hit targets 40 kilometers away. It goes on to conclude that heavey weapons from Germany should not be expected short term. quote:At the moment it does not appear that heavy weapons will be delivered from Germany to the Ukraine in the short term. Because according to information from Business Insider, the federal government has not delivered any military material to Ukraine in the past two weeks. A corresponding status was communicated to foreign and security politicians in the Bundestag at the beginning of the week. Remarkable: For the current week, the Ministry of Defense even announced that it would not deposit an updated list of “materials handed over to the UKR” in the secret service office of the Bundestag, as is usually the case – because nothing is being delivered.
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Jun 9, 2022 12:21
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khwarezm posted:Is there any value to this article or is it just propaganda? The lady interviewed there is just a happy traitor and a propagandist (living abroad and teaching at a Moscow university) and the interviewer is a useful idiot so they can be safely ignored, along with grayzone in general. Baysha pretends as if February 24th, Bucha and Mariupol did not happen and ignores how Russian army hammers the historically pro-Russian regions the hardest. Neoliberal reforms and internal struggles (wonder if she ever can say anything about the latter in her new home) stopped mattering once bombs started falling, Russians showed their true face and Zelensky started behaving like a leader. quote:I follow Zelensky’ war speeches on a regular basis, and I can confidently say that the way he frames the conflict can hardly lead to any diplomatic resolution as he permanently repeats that the forces of good are attacked by the forces of evil. Gee I wonder why What happened? Conflict?
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Jun 9, 2022 12:28
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Hitler didn't have nukes. The Allies were loving terrified that he was close to one. The axis had advanced heavy water manufacturing plus working V-2 rockets, it was only a matter of time the allies were scared, but the germans weren't anywhere near close. and even if the germans had had the correct theory on how to make nukes, they lacked the resources for a manhattan project scale project
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Jun 9, 2022 12:35
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Hitler didn't have nukes. The Allies were loving terrified that he was close to one. The axis had advanced heavy water manufacturing plus working V-2 rockets, it was only a matter of time The nukes are a red herring at best, or a convenient excuse at worst
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Jun 9, 2022 12:39
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Hitler didn't have nukes. The Allies were loving terrified that he was close to one. The axis had advanced heavy water manufacturing plus working V-2 rockets, it was only a matter of time Yeah, he was never going to have nukes. The Nazi nuclear program was basically derailed from the start because, ironically, they couldn't get their reactor to work well. They didn't achieve criticality till the very end of the war, which was four years after the Chicago Pile had gone Critical and two years after X-10 was regularly going critical daily. It was a loose knit project with little to no funding and little to no resources compared to the Manhattan project which was not only well funded, but also benefitted from a huge amount of talent that the Nazis specifically chased off for being Jews or practicing "Jewish Science". Another reason was a lot of up and coming Physics students were sent to the East or West front and killed/captured. The Allies did believe the Nazis could build one, but Operation Alsos proved that the Nazi were far behind the US program wise. Reminder that the Nazi Physics groups basically rejected Einstein's pivotal work as "Jewish Science". https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-2-pro-nazi-nobelists-attacked-einstein-s-jewish-science-excerpt1/ This is totally off topic but "Nazis gonna get nukes" was always laughably false. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 12:52
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She Blinded Me With Jewish Science
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Jun 9, 2022 13:00
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FishMcCool posted:Duda's quote specifically mentions that if we're afraid of nukes, we might as well surrender now, so he's happy to verbally dismiss the threat while not engaging I know the Poland has a religious extremism problem and probably many there view apocalyptic war with Russia as a good end goal, or think that the virgin mary will come from heaven again to save them. This is what happens when euphemism rules the day. They need to be specific. You mercy killing your chronically ill parents and then having to eat your pets is worth stopping Russia. You will never vote again and spend the rest of your life on a state agricultural facility until the tumors get you. Ukraine will no longer exist as a concept. But we can remember we stood up. Your child is stillborn.
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Jun 9, 2022 13:46
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https://twitter.com/maxfras/status/1534814914975518722 https://twitter.com/jakecordell/status/1534875481903968259 https://twitter.com/iikkakorhonen/status/1534873257421283329 https://twitter.com/artyomlukin/status/1534713032114376704 Reznikov claims that Harpoons are now deployed alongside Neptunes along the shoreline. https://t.me/insiderUKR/34392
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Jun 9, 2022 13:47
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fatherboxx posted:Neoliberal reforms and internal struggles (wonder if she ever can say anything about the latter in her new home) stopped mattering once bombs started falling, Russians showed their true face and Zelensky started behaving like a leader. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ70EFhFGT8 Xander77 fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 13:50
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Xander77 posted:I've been told that he's using the war as a pretext to persecute all opposition, regardless of how they feel about the Russians. That’s a line fairly popular with Kremlin. They don’t even consistently recognise him as having legitimacy to begin with.
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Jun 9, 2022 13:52
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cinci zoo sniper posted:That’s a line fairly popular with Kremlin. They don’t even consistently recognise him as having legitimacy to begin with.
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Jun 9, 2022 13:54
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khwarezm posted:Is there any value to this article or is it just propaganda? Grayzone exists to remediate propaganda from Russia and aligned countries, yeah. That specific author also has a bylines on RT's site starting in 2021.
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Jun 9, 2022 13:57
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Xander77 posted:It's possible that every single Ukrainian commentator on fairly anti-war Russian blogs is in fact a Kremlin shill, I guess. To be fair, restrictions on political liberties currently imposed in Ukraine are something to carefully monitor. It’s just that the characterisation of “persecute all opposition, regardless of how they feel about the Russians” doesn’t hold its water.
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Jun 9, 2022 13:58
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Hitler didn't have nukes. The Allies were loving terrified that he was close to one. The axis had advanced heavy water manufacturing plus working V-2 rockets, it was only a matter of time It wasn't, there wasn't enough spare electricity in the Reich to refine the fissile material, which accounted for the large majority of the cost of the bomb. It was straight up impossible for the Reich to build a bomb at any point.
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Jun 9, 2022 14:14
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, he was never going to have nukes. The Nazi nuclear program was basically derailed from the start because, ironically, they couldn't get their reactor to work well. They didn't achieve criticality till the very end of the war, which was four years after the Chicago Pile had gone Critical and two years after X-10 was regularly going critical daily. It was a loose knit project with little to no funding and little to no resources compared to the Manhattan project which was not only well funded, but also benefitted from a huge amount of talent that the Nazis specifically chased off for being Jews or practicing "Jewish Science". Another reason was a lot of up and coming Physics students were sent to the East or West front and killed/captured. The Allies did believe the Nazis could build one, but Operation Alsos proved that the Nazi were far behind the US program wise. Yes, it is a derail, but you are entirely correct. Yes, nukes were coming along soon-ish by the 1940s, after the theoretical and practical breakthroughs that had been made in physics earlier in the century it was only a matter of time. The timing of when they were developed was a bit specific, though, and only a project on the scale of Manhattan could have resulted in a working bomb by 1945. And only the USA had the resources to pursue a project of quite that scale at that time. Not just material resources but human resources too, and not just the brilliant lead researchers but all those lower-level lab tech dudes and so on; training such people if you do not have them at hand takes years. Anyway, they had enough resources to attack problems from several angles at once and try multiple paths in parallel -- which also resulted in not one but two completely different bomb designs by mid-1945, both of which worked. That was a bit of hindsight, though. Nobody really knew exactly how difficult and time-consuming this development would be until it was actually done. DURING the war, it was not unreasonable to fear that maybe it was easier, or that maybe the Germans were further along than anyone knew. As a further derail, I've often thought we were kind of lucky that nukes came along exactly when they did, just in time to be used at the very end of a major war, when there wasn't going to be another major war for a while. So that by the time the tech had diffused and developed a bit further and multiple powers had arsenals of significant size, everyone had had time to take a good long look at the horrible effects of the loving things, and assigned them to the new category of deterrent weapons which we never hope to actually use. And they have still not been used again. Consider the alternative if they were developed during a kind of peacetime more similar to the years before WW1... then everyone copies their homework and then everyone has hundreds of the drat things, and then somebody shoots an Archduke or something, and nobody has an actual example of their use...
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Jun 9, 2022 14:15
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Here's the official Ukrainain MoD count on 155mm weapons already in Ukraine, and some other notes. Fair to question how accurate the below count is in either direction, but it's a fair point of estimate https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1534833302468808704?s=20&t=2QngodUHmwguf8FEqELB2A https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1534833328779665410?s=20&t=2QngodUHmwguf8FEqELB2A and a wish list https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1534833343488983040?s=20&t=2QngodUHmwguf8FEqELB2A
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Jun 9, 2022 14:19
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I wish I could just buy a basic car w/o all the electronic BS. Would still want the seatbelt s and airbag s though.
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Jun 9, 2022 14:23
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Serious question: does Germany even have an Army capable of more than parades at this point? Half of their rocket systems don't work? Half? I'm starting to think that the three Baltic republics could put together a larger actual army than all of Germany right now. I hope NATO planners are able to plan the defense of Europe sans Germany, because it sounds more and more like they have a paper army. After Ukraine has parity in artillery, which they might get from more precise fires instead of number of tubes/launchers, given reports that NATO artillery is more accurate even with unguided munitions, I think the next push will be for modern armored vehicles. Pushing all of the Warsaw Pact-era BMPs and T-72s was good, but Ukraine needs to stand up completely new brigade-sized formations, and ideally those formations will be armored and mechanized. Light infantry with great artillery is great, but combined arms is still superior. Ynglaur fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 14:23
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Crude oil was also selling at an insane discount, even before EU oil sanctions were announced. It still raked them money, but double digit % below what the nominal price would’ve implied. I was originally responding to this Shooting Blanks posted:It can be difficult to comprehend how long it takes sanctions to go from Announced -> Enacted -> Effective. But once that train gets rolling, holy poo poo will it be hard to stop. I've had nearly 40 years of media blasting the effectiveness of sanctions toppling governments and the only evidence of that occurring is......I don't know....is Libya deciding to change their policy regarding WMDs by giving them up and then getting invaded right after. I remember taking grad school lessons from ppl in the Justice Dept talking about how pinpoint sanctions on select govt officials can induce governmental changes abroad in 2008 and it just seems like a policy that has never shown its effectiveness.
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Jun 9, 2022 14:27
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Ola posted:As VW owners about software updates, six months is a rush job. My god, I'm still waiting for my ID.4 software update from a year ago. With all these excuses you get the feeling the unofficial-official German position is "do nothing for as long as possible" which is, y'know, kind of a dick move.
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Jun 9, 2022 14:28
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So the wife and I watched "The Man in the High Castleto" Amazon and it posits a universe where the Nazi's won the war, partly due to the Nazi's developing an Atomic Bomb (named the Heisenberg device.) This caused me to do some research on what Werner Heisenberg got up to during WW2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Heisenberg Basically he didn't think Atomic Weapons could be produced during the second World War without a massive influx of time and resources. Instead he advocated for developing nuclear power and that it would be able to power an army of vehicles, ships and subs for the Nazi's. So basically the electrical car, being charged by nuclear power plants.
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Jun 9, 2022 14:30
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Kchama posted:So the thing is, money is not able to solve all problems. My reply was in response to "Oh they'll just use their money to build all the stuff they import now." That is not a matter of having money. That is the matter of having expertise and equipment, which also require their own expertise and equipment. And Russia doesn't have either sets of expertise or equipment. This will impact everything, especially their warfighting ability. I believe their industry right now can only service 50% of their society's needs, and they imported the rest. Which is fine, until you piss off the rest of the world to the point that they refuse to sell you what you need. They likely can eventually service the other 50%, but that's going to take a lot of time to do and the quality of that isn't likely going to be nearly as good as Russia is use to for a long time. Is Russia turning to China a point against all this? Like the only way to see what occurs is to wait and see but I feel like emphasis and high expectations on the effectiveness of sanctions is relying on a West aligned view of the world and perhaps an undue overestimation of their role in the world economy.
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Jun 9, 2022 14:31
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The Question IRL posted:So the wife and I watched "The Man in the High Castleto" Amazon and it posits a universe where the Nazi's won the war, partly due to the Nazi's developing an Atomic Bomb (named the Heisenberg device.) Yeah but even then Heisenberg was going about the very fundamentals the wrong way, largely because they didn't have the benefit of people like Frisch, Meitner, Fermi, Bohr, Joliot-Curie, Einstein, etc. They purposefully rejected key parts of nuclear science because it wasn't 'Aryan' enough or came from Jewish scientists. There's some theories Heisenberg prevented Germany from gaining nuclear weapons on purpose but that's not been proven in any way. It is notable that after capturing the German nuclear scientists and after the bombs were dropped, they 'leaked' the details to the captured scientists and they roughly deduced how the weapon likely worked. It was never that nuclear weapons would be difficult to make, more that getting the materials required making leaps and bounds in producing, extracting, handling, manufacturing, and testing the required components. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 14:34
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I have to imagine that this is going to be an absolutely massive block to resuming agricultural operations right? Even if you clear the UXO, chemicals and shards have to be a major concern.
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Jun 9, 2022 14:37
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Shageletic posted:I was originally responding to this I don't think anyone here is seriously expecting sanctions to effect government change, though, nor is the guy you were quoting arguing that as far as I can see. What they ARE expecting is that sanctions can nuke the Russian economy, which as far as we can tell IS happening. The intended side effect is that this includes their war economy and ability to supply and rearm forces in the field, thus contributing meaningfully to military defeat. This hasn't got much to do with regime change and has notably more limited (and thus achievable) goals. Edit: Shageletic posted:Is Russia turning to China a point against all this? Like the only way to see what occurs is to wait and see but I feel like emphasis and high expectations on the effectiveness of sanctions is relying on a West aligned view of the world and perhaps an undue overestimation of their role in the world economy. Funny you should say that when this just cropped up on this here page: cinci zoo sniper posted:https://twitter.com/iikkakorhonen/status/1534873257421283329
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Jun 9, 2022 14:40
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JerikTelorian posted:I have to imagine that this is going to be an absolutely massive block to resuming agricultural operations right? Even if you clear the UXO, chemicals and shards have to be a major concern. Shrapnel is just going to get plowed out with the rocks, it's annoying but not really an issue, and depends on the chemicals.
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Jun 9, 2022 14:44
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Tomn posted:I don't think anyone here is seriously expecting sanctions to effect government change, though, nor is the guy you were quoting arguing that as far as I can see. Okay then my sensitivity might be due to previous claims unrelated to this conflict then. I'm still looking for more evidence that western sanctions can cripple Russian military forces to that extent but I'll freely admit the last few decades hosed me up to an extent so lets wait and see I guess. Time being the only judge and all
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Jun 9, 2022 14:47
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