SF & F Mega-thread: I had to google 'spock pirate depilatory'

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > SF & F Mega-thread: I had to google 'spock pirate depilatory'

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ToxicFrog: Apr 26, 2008

pseudorandom name posted:

What I'm hearing is that it is a multidimensional graph with horny/unhorny and problematic/non-problematic as two of the axes.

Four of the axes, since "the work" and "the author" are orthogonal sets of dimensions.

# ? Jun 15, 2022 21:30

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# ? May 31, 2024 12:13

NoneMoreNegative: Jul 20, 2000; GOTH FASCISTIC
PAIN MASTER

shit wizard dad

Captain Monkey posted:

Was going to post this exact thing. This blogger seems like a moron, and using woke as a pejorative is just one of many red flags.

Ah, Godwin's Second Law

https://twitter.com/sfmnemonic/status/1504687870006620163

:hmmyes:

# ? Jun 15, 2022 21:36

Copernic: Sep 16, 2006; ...A Champion, who by mettle of his glowing personal charm alone, saved the universe...

i started this one

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Jun 15, 2022 21:46

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/dogunderwater/status/1537106608739721229

quote:

Did you read The Odyssey? And if so, when?

I read a lot of the stories within The Odyssey, because they�re in things like Percy Jackson, and those little books of mythology you get as a kid, but I actually started and finished writing without sitting down and reading the whole thing. I have various translations; there are parts that are very beautiful and readable, but it�s so long, and written in a �prose-y� way that�s kind of impenetrable.

That�s what will be good about your book; it will be an easier read, but you�d also get to know the stories of The Odyssey.

Yeah. There�s a massive gap in the market, particularly in YA. There�s a Jaci Burton book that just came out, called �Medusa�, but that�s illustrated and on the younger side. Largely mythology has bypassed YA, which is why this is quite fun, because I love Greek mythology and YA, so it�s a little fun melding of my favourite things.

# ? Jun 15, 2022 21:51

Stupid_Sexy_Flander: Mar 14, 2007; Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?; Grimey Drawer

Copernic posted:

i started this one

I'm pretty sure this is just covid 19.

# ? Jun 15, 2022 21:57

pradmer: Mar 31, 2009; Follow me for more books on special!

Sunshine by Robin McKinley - $1.99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OGWASCI/

# ? Jun 15, 2022 22:51

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

Kalman posted:

Orcs. Jewish-coded dwarves. Etc.

Orcs I get. But I never even once thought of the Dwarves as Jewish. They always came off as slightly greedier, more violent, shorter Vikings.

# ? Jun 15, 2022 23:30

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Everyone posted:

Orcs I get. But I never even once thought of the Dwarves as Jewish. They always came off as slightly greedier, more violent, shorter Vikings.

Tolkien explicitly based the dwarvish language on hebrew. They're also bearded, hoard gold, etc.

# ? Jun 15, 2022 23:41

neongrey: Feb 28, 2007; Plaguing your posts with incidental music.

Everyone posted:

Orcs I get. But I never even once thought of the Dwarves as Jewish. They always came off as slightly greedier, more violent, shorter Vikings.

well, Tolkien said as much in his letters himself so

it's a bit closer to philosemitism than antisemitism but that's not exactly great either

# ? Jun 15, 2022 23:45

Nigmaetcetera: Nov 17, 2004; borkborkborkmorkmorkmork-gabbalooins

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Tolkien explicitly based the dwarvish language on hebrew. They're also bearded, hoard gold, etc.

He based the black speech on hurrian, a then recently deciphered Semitic language. I don�t think he thought that Hurrian speakers were any more barbaric than their neighbors, but they had a wicked ugly sounding language.

# ? Jun 15, 2022 23:46

Larry Parrish: Jul 9, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

is there a single real life culture that's exclusively clean shaven. i just don't get how beards are a clear Jewish thing

# ? Jun 15, 2022 23:48

Nigmaetcetera: Nov 17, 2004; borkborkborkmorkmorkmork-gabbalooins

Larry Parrish posted:

is there a single real life culture that's exclusively clean shaven. i just don't get how beards are a clear Jewish thing

I�ve read that there are ethnicities that have difficulty growing facial hair. To be fair though there�s like a 50% chance I read it from H.P. Lovecraft or Robert E. Howard.

# ? Jun 15, 2022 23:53

Milkfred E. Moore: Aug 27, 2006; 'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/dogunderwater/status/1537106608739721229

Dang, I knew I should've said my manuscript is a queer retelling of the myth of Sekhmet.

# ? Jun 15, 2022 23:55

HopperUK: Apr 29, 2007; Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/dogunderwater/status/1537106608739721229

And the thing that annoys me most is that she said it's written in a prose-y way, when it is a poem. I get what she meant but like - she's a writer. Words mean things.

# ? Jun 15, 2022 23:55

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Larry Parrish posted:

is there a single real life culture that's exclusively clean shaven. i just don't get how beards are a clear Jewish thing

It's a stereotype, it doesn't have to make sense

# ? Jun 15, 2022 23:59

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

HopperUK posted:

And the thing that annoys me most is that she said it's written in a prose-y way, when it is a poem. I get what she meant but like - she's a writer. Words mean things.

Her advice to other aspiring writers is "get on Twitter'. YA book twitter is easily the most toxic, most backbiting community on twitter.

e: you'll have to take my word for it they took down the article lol

# ? Jun 16, 2022 00:30

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Larry Parrish posted:

is there a single real life culture that's exclusively clean shaven. i just don't get how beards are a clear Jewish thing

Some traditional varieties of Judaism religiously require beards. That's hardly the only religion for which that's the case, but there generally weren't significant Sikh or Muslim populations living in many European societies.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 00:32

Tars Tarkas: Apr 13, 2003; Rock the Mok

A nasty woman, I think you should try is, Jess.

If you read between the lines she got a book deal because she networked with a bunch of YA twitter authors right before they got book deals and blew up who could then help her make publishing contacts and had a line to an agent through one of her professors. She's also pretty frank about writing what she wrote because those books were selling/getting deals, so I at least appreciate that honesty. I'm way more productive this week when I am suspended from twitter so I advise you all to stay away from it, but especially stay away from YA author twitter.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 00:42

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

pseudorandom name posted:

What I'm hearing is that it is a multidimensional graph with horny/unhorny and problematic/non-problematic as two of the axes.

It's a graph of disturbing alien angles, which is why HP Lovecraft isn't visible on it.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 00:47

Tars Tarkas: Apr 13, 2003; Rock the Mok

A nasty woman, I think you should try is, Jess.

What we need is a graph that is very busy, but if you stare at it long enough, you see either a sailboat or a horny sailboat. Then you have your answer for a particular author.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 00:58

Selachian: Oct 9, 2012

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/dogunderwater/status/1537106608739721229

Did she at least read the Cliffs Notes? Do kids today even have Cliffs Notes anymore, or is that another hopelessly dated reference?

# ? Jun 16, 2022 00:58

StrixNebulosa: Feb 14, 2012; You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

zoux posted:

Her advice to other aspiring writers is "get on Twitter'. YA book twitter is easily the most toxic, most backbiting community on twitter.

e: you'll have to take my word for it they took down the article lol

https://web.archive.org/web/2022061...ublished-author

quote:

Did you read The Odyssey? And if so, when?

I read a lot of the stories within The Odyssey, because they�re in things like Percy Jackson, and those little books of mythology you get as a kid, but I actually started and finished writing without sitting down and reading the whole thing. I have various translations; there are parts that are very beautiful and readable, but it�s so long, and written in a �prose-y� way that�s kind of impenetrable.

That�s what will be good about your book; it will be an easier read, but you�d also get to know the stories of The Odyssey.

Yeah. There�s a massive gap in the market, particularly in YA. There�s a Jaci Burton book that just came out, called �Medusa�, but that�s illustrated and on the younger side. Largely mythology has bypassed YA, which is why this is quite fun, because I love Greek mythology and YA, so it�s a little fun melding of my favourite things.

What actually inspired you to write the novel? It was partly your love for Greek Mythology, but was there anything else?

I read an article about the story. It�s a reimagining of the story of Penelope�s maids. If you�re not familiar, they aid and abet her in deceiving suitors, so she doesn�t have to marry while her husband is away. They believe he�s dead, but she has unwavering faith that he�ll return. The maids eventually betray her. It�s not clear why � some translations say they�re sleeping with the suitors, some give them more grace � but they then get murdered, brutally. There�s not much more on them, it�s one of those things you snag up on because it feels they haven�t had enough mention to suddenly be pivotal. I definitely stumbled on the idea. There are a lot of books that look at smaller, less well-known stories, like Madeline Miller�s �Circe� � Circe is in The Odyssey, and underutilised � it gives her more nuance, and her own agency. I wanted to do that for Melantho (the only named maid), so I gave her more depth in her motivations, and vengeance. In The Odyssey she dies and there�s no consequences, no vengeance, there�s nothing, and I didn�t love that. Why Greek mythology? I�ve just always loved it.

Did you do much writing before you stumbled on the idea?

Not really. I always wanted to be a writer, but a novel is a big commitment. I had bits and pieces but hadn�t really done much with it. I used to do short stories because it�s �one and done�. I wanted to commit to writing, so during the pandemic I thought, �I�ve got nothing else to do, why don�t I give this a go?�. To be honest the first draft was pretty shocking, but I was lucky the idea was pretty solid. I feel that a first draft is for getting everything on a page, and now I�m working on my second novel I�m going back to basics. I just need to write something, then I can smoothen the edges and make it consumable and readable.

[...]

Do you have a favourite book, and genre?

Genre-wise probably YA fantasy. That�s what I write, and what I read most of the time. It�s escapist and doesn�t require too much thinking to enjoy it. That�s what�s great about them � they have these layers of depth that can be unpacked when you read them again. In terms of favourite books, probably �The Song of Achilles�; it�s excellent, and I read it when I was 16, so it was quite formative. Similarly, I read the Percy Jackson books when I was around 10 to 15, and absolutely loved them. They�re not necessarily the best books I�ve ever read, but I read them when they were pivotal for me.

How did your book get discovered by the publisher?

Traditional publishing has various layers; the top is my publisher who acquired the book and paid me, beneath that is my agent. She represents me, helped me edit, submitted to publishers, negotiated my contract, and pay, and does various other things for me. The stage of �discovery� is where you query agents; you send out a pitch, synopsis, and extract � normally the first chapter. I queried my manuscript quite widely and had several offers. My agent is incredibly clever and understood exactly what I was trying to do. There�s a misconception that books get �discovered� online. I know very few people for which that is the case, and it normally comes down to foreign rights. It�s difficult to sell something that�s been published online, because why would a publisher buy something that was available for free online? It�s not in their best interest, and you get copyright laws involved. One of the best things you can do is networking with other writers; they might make referrals, suggest an agent, or even reach out to them, and you�re likely to get more attention. I don�t think publishers are scouring the internet, because they have so much to do and get agented submissions which tend to be higher quality.

Did you look for an agent personally, or, as you said, did someone refer you to one?

I did a mentorship scheme, which was really helpful. It�s called Pitch Wars � published authors take unrepresented authors as mentees. You submit your work, and they mentor you and help you revise your manuscript for 3 months. Then there�s a showcase for agents to request from. It�s a way to get noticed quickly, although it�s incredibly hard, because it�s a very short window to revise your whole book. I basically rewrote mine � my mentors were fantastic, and had a great vision, but it involved deconstructing it and putting it back together. It added two new points of view; I wrote about 60,000 words in two months. It was sort of a referral, because their names were on it, saying we mentored this person, and agents will know these books are likely to be of a higher quality than what they see in their submission box. I had 6 offers from American agents through the scheme, and just 1 from a British agent. My agent is actually married to one of my lecturers.

Where did you find the mentorship scheme?

I found it on Twitter. My number 1 piece of advice for aspiring writers is to get on Twitter. There�s so much you can only learn from having someone look over what you�ve produced and highlight where you�re going wrong. It exposes you to incredible opportunities and people. It has bad sides as well, obviously, but it�s where I met a lot of established authors who have been really generous with their time.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 00:59

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

Edit: maybe in poor taste lol

# ? Jun 16, 2022 01:04

Lily Catts: Oct 17, 2012; Show me the way to you
(Heavy Metal)

Thanks for the tangential reminder to finish The Song of Achilles, I guess

# ? Jun 16, 2022 01:15

SurreptitiousMuffin: Mar 21, 2010

zoux posted:

Her advice to other aspiring writers is "get on Twitter'. YA book twitter is easily the most toxic, most backbiting community on twitter.

e: you'll have to take my word for it they took down the article lol

This is the single worst advice for any writer. I've been in the industry for around 5 years and in that relatively short timeframe I've seen Twitter ruin multiple lives. Not careers, lives. Abandoning writing and public life altogether, suicide attempts and nervous breakdowns, and I'm not even in YA. Adult SF/F is a loving snakepit but it's a hugbox compared to YA, the expression I've heard again and again is "knife fight in a phone booth". Twitter is a useful publicity tool, but that's why you have a loving publicist.

SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jun 16, 2022

# ? Jun 16, 2022 01:23

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's a stereotype, it doesn't have to make sense

Granted. It still flew over my head when applied to Dwarves. I guess a 5 works for Tolkien. He did inspire a Led Zepplin song but also inspired Gary Gygax to be the sperm donor of RPGs.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 01:37

branedotorg: Jun 19, 2009

Everyone posted:

Granted. It still flew over my head when applied to Dwarves. I guess a 5 works for Tolkien. He did inspire a Led Zepplin song but also inspired Gary Gygax to be the sperm donor of RPGs.

and which of those is redeeming?

# ? Jun 16, 2022 01:52

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

What are you trying to tell me here, little man, that you don't like Zep?

# ? Jun 16, 2022 02:25

Larry Parrish: Jul 9, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

it's sage advice to hang out on Twitter all day if you're writing books so you get taken seriously on Twitter, not so much if you're doing literally anything else with your life. in fact i don't know why you'd want to waste your time on any social media thing like that.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 03:01

habeasdorkus: Nov 3, 2013; Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.

Megasabin posted:

For some reason I always thought Red Rising was a young adult series. I started it and kept being like, "Hmm, this sort of language usually isn't used in a young adult novel", "this sort of content usually isn't..". Then I got to the scene Where for the passage he has to fight another student. And not just any student-- a friendly student he had already met earlier that seemed coded to become a "best friend" type character. I figured he would figure out a way to cheat the system so they both live. Instead he just mercs the kid.

I have to admit I thought the narrative seemed pretty cliche up until that point. I hope it can keep the brutal atmosphere going.

Well before that point Darrow mercy killed his pregnant wife while she was being hung for treason. At that point I was pretty sure it was not a regular YA book. And man, for my money it absolutely does.

e: Also, I strongly recommend the Red Rising series and the Iron Gold follow on books, but serious content warning for violence and sexual violence.

habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jun 16, 2022

# ? Jun 16, 2022 03:59

Blastedhellscape: Jan 1, 2008

When I was in middle school I had some friends who got into David Eddings books and talked a lot about them, and I remember there always being a big display of them at the bookfair, but I just viscerally didn't want to read them because they sounded like the most generic Tolkien and D&D rip-off crap. I just remember hearing that there was a smooth d&d thief character named Silk who was one of the main characters. And the first book is called "Pawn of Prophesy." It just all sounded horribly bland.

And this was even at a time when I was reading tons of licensed Forgotten Realms books along with more adult/pretentious stuff. I guess my middle school thinking was "Well, at least these Dungeons and Dragons books I read are fully aware that they're schlock and lean into into it." They also had a lot of weird but memorable moments. Those David Eddings books all seemed really forgettable.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 05:10

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

I liked the thing in one of the Eddings books where the protagonist uh goes forward in time a long way? and is all "whoa what is this knife made of, this isn't bronze"

coincidentally that is all I remember about the Eddings I have read and I will not be reading more.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 07:45

moonmazed: Dec 27, 2021; by VideoGames

ed, edd, and eddings

# ? Jun 16, 2022 07:48

Beachcomber: May 21, 2007; Another day in paradise.; Slippery Tilde

Copernic posted:

we should use the Piers-Lovecraft Scale, which evaluates books on a 1-10 ladder of being problematic:

---------
1 [Terry Pratchett]
2
3 [Ursula LeGuin]
4
5 [Tolkien]
6
7
8
9
10 [Piers Anthony]
---------

There you go.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 08:38

Stupid_Sexy_Flander: Mar 14, 2007; Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?; Grimey Drawer

90s Cringe Rock posted:

I liked the thing in one of the Eddings books where the protagonist uh goes forward in time a long way? and is all "whoa what is this knife made of, this isn't bronze"

coincidentally that is all I remember about the Eddings I have read and I will not be reading more.

Redemption of athalus I think. There's a bit where he (the greatest thief in the world who's been sent way forward in time) breaks into a store's office to steal all the money and then all he finds are these worthless papers he throws around and leaves, only to talk about it later to a guy who goes "yea, that paper stuff is money." while he goes :stonk:

# ? Jun 16, 2022 09:43

A Proper Uppercut: Sep 30, 2008

zoux posted:

Her advice to other aspiring writers is "get on Twitter'. YA book twitter is easily the most toxic, most backbiting community on twitter.

e: you'll have to take my word for it they took down the article lol

Unrelated to anything but can I ask where you AV is from? I really like it.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 12:06

3D Megadoodoo: Nov 25, 2010

HopperUK posted:

And the thing that annoys me most is that she said it's written in a prose-y way, when it is a poem. I get what she meant but like - she's a writer.

She's a YA writer. :smugmrgw:

# ? Jun 16, 2022 12:12

silvergoose: Mar 18, 2006; IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS

A Proper Uppercut posted:

Unrelated to anything but can I ask where you AV is from? I really like it.

Looks like Grim Fandango to me but now I'm curious too.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 12:18

MisterBear: Aug 16, 2013

I�ve just finished Seven Surrenders by Ada Palmer, the second book in her Terra Ignota quartet. Loving the series so far - it�s wonderfully dense with ideas and characters that stick in the brain. Looking forward to reading book three (The Will to Battle) after a quick break for some holiday trash.

High level and woefully incomplete overview - in a future where society has been at peace for almost three hundred years, what price should society be willing to pay to maintain that peace?

# ? Jun 16, 2022 14:46

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# ? May 31, 2024 12:13

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

A Proper Uppercut posted:

Unrelated to anything but can I ask where you AV is from? I really like it.

I clipped it out of a random issue of Hellboy. I really like how Mignola draws skulls (though this one in particluar was drawn by Duncan Fegredo, who started pencilling books when Mignola got too busy to both write and draw Hellboy)

I will take this opportunity to plug Hellboy, which is far and away my favorite comic. It is also nothing like the movies, GDT turned Hellboy from a taciturn, hardboiled detective in the style of Sam Spade into a fast talking quip machine. I hate the loving movies.

There are two kinds of Hellboy stories. The first one deals with the overarching metaplot involving Nazis and other malicious actors trying to contact and release Lovecraftian-style monsters upon the earth. It reminds me a lot of Declare by Tim Powers, if you've ever read that. The second type are folk tales. Mignola is obsessed with folktales from cultures around the world, and will often adapt them for HB, with Hellboy acting mostly as an observer. These are also excellent. Hellboy is a complete story, as its companion, B.P.R.D. This book is closer to the movies, it has all the side characters like Abe Sapien and Liz Sherman. That book deals with a secret government agency that's fighting against these forces that are trying to contact and release Lovecraftian-style monsters upon the earth. It is written but not drawn by Mignola, and it is also excellent.

Comics are expensive, but the first three trades (so 18 issues) are available on Kindle Unlimited, so sign up for a free trial and see if you like them! I've read through both series multiple times, they are marvelous.

# ? Jun 16, 2022 15:54

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > SF & F Mega-thread: I had to google 'spock pirate depilatory'

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