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yum
Oct 27, 2005

Only good things will come
to someone like
you.
Hakari/Kashimo is one of my favourites as well. One thing about Hakari though is that he was not trying to kill Kashimo because he wanted his points. He could probably go a lot harder than that with infinite CE if he was out to kill. Kashimo is a monster in close combat, and definitely doesn't fit the traditional sorcerer mould as classified by Zenin/modern JJK society; another display of how far you can go without using a cursed technique. I wonder if he could've pulled off Maki's feat against the Zenin.

I think what Kenjaku is referring to is that he probably has a gaggle of concept-manipulating SG cursed spirits at his disposal, but none of them are able to stop Yuki's technique. When she's able to 1-shot special grades by tossing an object imbued with so much mass that it overrides whatever bullshit they're on, it'd be a waste of his rare pokemons.

I'm curious to see how it interacts with Limitless though. Seems like a case of unstoppable object meets an impenetrable shield scenario.

edit: the early jjk translations are frustrating in that Gege does callbacks to dialogue from earlier chapters/explains a lot of rule-lawyering mechanics that become important later on but the early translators didn't know that so their interpretations sometimes change the meaning. Also the use of inconsistent terms.

Supplementing with fan translation notes is useful because while they're not necessarily more accurate, they provide alternative interpretations of the text, so you can get a better picture of what's being said. E.g. https://nanami-says.tumblr.com/ or https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fGG-miZgBFk-C0zfO8BPWsivqsRHK_3DChXCKDo8ShM/edit

yum fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Feb 16, 2023

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EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013

Kenjaku says "Since she defies concepts I can't use a high grade spirit like I did in Shibuya". He could be being poetic about how strong she is ofc but I'd seen others online suggest her having immunity to techniques with rules based targeting. Curious on thread consensus there.

There is a One Piece Podcast where often they have the official translator on for discussing the week's chapter. It's great because for a bunch of translation stuff he can explain his reasoning or some subtleties that aren't evident to people who can't read Japanese etc. So will definitely be checking out those links. I had read a bit of the Nanami Tumblr one before. It's very interesting but I also felt there was a lot of stuff that seemed line very minor differences and you're only hearing one translators pov. Not that there aren't bigger errors in the official text iirc, just that there is a lot of ones that seem like "I'd have chosen this word over this one" which seems more subjective imo.

Bread Set Jettison
Jan 8, 2009

Translation and localization is so nuts. I only recently found out the “direct translation” of JJK isn’t “curse fight” because of the kanji. It’s closer to “the cycle of cursed battles” or “the battle of the curse is repeating”

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
THE WHEEL OF CURSE IS TURNING

yum
Oct 27, 2005

Only good things will come
to someone like
you.
I think it depends on the author and source material. There's definitely a lot of needless nitpicking but Gege clearly put some thought/effort into this stuff

PringleCreamEgg
Jul 2, 2004

Sleep, rest, do your best.
Honestly I’m still trying to figure out if the rules are more or less vibes based like Jojo or if it’s rigid like Hunter x Hunter

ChaseSP
Mar 25, 2013



Stuff like binding vows seem to be entirely dependant on how the two parties understand the terms to be and why you need to be very drat sure you have the same understanding less you be tricked.

Pierson
Oct 31, 2004



College Slice
Yuji making a vow that innocent people not get hurt but not including himself in the vow is deep levels of self-loathing. :(

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Pierson posted:

Yuji making a vow that innocent people not get hurt but not including himself in the vow is deep levels of self-loathing. :(

Yeah it's why Sukuna celebrated, that Yuji did not consider himself part of the anyone when making the vow.

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012

Oxxidation posted:

THE WHEEL OF CURSE IS TURNING

Kenjaku should be banned from tournament play purely because he has an answer for everything and an ungodly health pool.

yum
Oct 27, 2005

Only good things will come
to someone like
you.
You know, Sukuna escaping Yuji was probably not a part of Kenjaku's plans. Doing a re-read, before fighting Choso, this is what he says about Yuji and Sukuna


So he wants the two of them together for whatever reason. Sukuna was also surprised that Yuji could suppress him, so he had no idea that Kenjaku made a vessel specifically for him.


some other stuff:
https://twitter.com/konoraora/status/1627014212450144256?s=20
Junji Ito references


https://twitter.com/king_jin_woo/status/1626228109342285827?s=20
Megumi is likely to be the next volume cover



The latest chapter is also a continuation of the first arc

EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013

yum posted:

You know, Sukuna escaping Yuji was probably not a part of Kenjaku's plans. Doing a re-read, before fighting Choso, this is what he says about Yuji and Sukuna


So he wants the two of them together for whatever reason. Sukuna was also surprised that Yuji could suppress him, so he had no idea that Kenjaku made a vessel specifically for him.


some other stuff:
https://twitter.com/konoraora/status/1627014212450144256?s=20
Junji Ito references


https://twitter.com/king_jin_woo/status/1626228109342285827?s=20
Megumi is likely to be the next volume cover



The latest chapter is also a continuation of the first arc

These are all cool!

I had picked up the chapter title and rushed back to check the cursed womb arc named when I saw part 5. Super detail.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!
Would be amazing if everything Kenjaku’s done falls apart cause Sukuna was feeling bratty.

ChaseSP
Mar 25, 2013



It might just be that Sukuna being active is triggering the rise in curses and Yuji keeping him locked up was a very useful contingency to keep Sukuna from potentially interfering.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!
That does make sense, and parallels Gojo’s existence and how it influenced sorcerer development which is really cool. Tho since Yuji is my boy i’m holding out hope that he possesses an x factor that’ll make sukuna look stupid for underestimating him. I wanna see Sukuna in the same spot Mahito was in at the end of Shibuya.

Flair
Apr 5, 2016

ChaseSP posted:

It might just be that Sukuna being active is triggering the rise in curses and Yuji keeping him locked up was a very useful contingency to keep Sukuna from potentially interfering.

Based on early comments, Kenjaku expected Sukuna to go on a rampage earlier, but Sukuna has heavily hinted that he has stayed passive because he wanted to bide his time with Megumi's cursed technique. If anything, Kenjaku sees Yuji as being a vessel with an inherently strong soul, so Yuji and Sukuna are probably some catalyst for keeping curses alive.

Bread Set Jettison
Jan 8, 2009

TheHan posted:

That does make sense, and parallels Gojo’s existence and how it influenced sorcerer development which is really cool. Tho since Yuji is my boy i’m holding out hope that he possesses an x factor that’ll make sukuna look stupid for underestimating him. I wanna see Sukuna in the same spot Mahito was in at the end of Shibuya.

I fully expect to Yuji to bite off new-Sukuna’s finger

lih
May 15, 2013

Just a friendly reminder of what it looks like.

We'll do punctuation later.
it's pretty likely that kenjaku was responsible for yuji "finding" sukuna's finger in the first place, & yuji being good at suppressing sukuna is almost certainly due to some scheme of kenjaku's too, but it doesn't really seem like there was any grand plan there - at most just some experiments? kenjaku messing around and seeing if something interesting/favourable would happen etc.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Bread Set Jettison posted:

I fully expect to Yuji to bite off new-Sukuna’s finger

I don't think that would do anything.

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS

Yeah you can see Sukuna filling Yuji's pinky with his soul or whatever before tearing it off.

yum
Oct 27, 2005

Only good things will come
to someone like
you.
It's been noticed that Sukuna uses a slightly different handseal to summon Nue compared to Megumi:


Sukuna



Megumi

This could be one hint as to why Sukuna was so interested in the 10 Shadows. It's a technique that summons shikigamis using shadows, meaning it summons a projection of an idea from the user's mind. Thus, manipulating the conceptualization behind the shadow should mean a more powerful shikigami. Sukuna interprets the summoned shikigami differently than Megumi. He has a deeper understanding of cursed energy, and more importantly of himself and the mindset and creativity needed to bring forth his best. His Nue is a monster compared to Megumi who is always limiting himself.

This is why it's Gojo-approved and Zenin's most prized technique to the point that Naobato was willing to pay a small fortune + make Megumi the clan head without even meeting him. It's a special-grade technique with infinite potential that's limited only by the user's imagination. Thus far, we've only seen Megumi's interpretation of the shikigami and we're led to believe that they have fixed forms due to the power system of the 10 Shadows. We're also led to believe Sukuna is interested in it because of that power system and Marohaga, but there are several hints suggesting otherwise.


Sukuna immediately noticed the potential of the technique after a quick bout with Megumi. Megumi only displayed two of his shikigami. He highlights the use of shadows over anything else - there's no mention of the inherent system the technique is based on. He's impressed solely by the use of shadows.


It shouldn't be Marohaga that he's interested in: He's got no idea what Megumi is going to summon. He only knows that it's going to be something big.



Sukuna says this right before using his domain in his fight against Marohaga.


I always thought it was a weird thing to say, but he says it because he's learned how the technique works from his analysis of Marohaga.

There are only two requirements for the Shikigami summoned: Its power is based on one of the 10 Sacred treasures, and its form must resemble the shadow puppet hand seal (it's a shadow after all). Megumi only knows that the 10th shikigami has never been tamed, thus, Marohaga is Megumi's interpretation of an invincible shikigami based off of the Mirror treasure. He's able to summon something incredibly powerful despite his relatively low level of power because of this belief.

That might be the purpose of Marohaga in the 10 Shadows system - it's not supposed to be defeated. It allows the user to go crazy with their imagination and think of something completely overpowered. This would also fit the special grade technique classification of modern JJK, since the user can easily imagine something capable of taking down a nation - though it'd be suicidal, but hey, Yuki's black hole was also indiscriminate.

Taima
Dec 31, 2006

tfw you're peeing next to someone in the lineup and they don't know
Hey yall I have been re-reading the manga to prepare for the conclusion of the culling games arc. I assume a lot of you have too, but I had a couple of small questions that I hope you guys could help me understand.

The main question I have pertains to when Mahito uses his domain in 0.2 seconds, copying Gojo.

(by the way this is an interesting top level point that Gege seems to be making that Gojo can and will be surpassed or at least equaled as humanity and curses mix to level up together, but that's not the point of my question).

Here are the relevant pages:



This scene confuses the poo poo out of me. Mahito uses his domain but we don't actually see anyone inside it besides Mahito. Then has has a conversation with Sukuna, and I don't get why; I thought the whole point was he was outside of Sukuna's range, so why are they meeting in that way? And why is Sukuna so passive? He's inside Sukuna's domain for some reason, but as far as I know, enacted such a short domain to specifically prevent that?

Who is saying they "won't let that happen"? It's very strictly implied that Mahito is NOT trying to affect Sukuna, and is avoiding such an interaction on purpose, so what does that even mean?

And what does Sukuna's understanding with Itadori have to do with this conversation? Sukuna demonstrated, with only a few fingers of power, that he can override Mahito's domain without even using his own. That was the whole point of the Nanami/Yuji/Mahito fight's conclusion. So why does Mahito think he can kill Yuji, especially now that sukuna is ridiculously more powerful? Sukuna nearly killed Mahito last time with a split second flick of his wrist, so why the change of heart now?

If I take this whole thing at face value, it's implying that Mahito is bumping up against, but not affecting, Sukuna's soul, and is basically saying Sukuna can't do poo poo because there's no time to switch, even though he presumably would kill Mahito if he could.

But he doesn't do anything to Sukuna, or Yuji, and why would Mahito need to say all of this if he wasn't interacting, nor trying to interact, with Sukuna's soul? And it was extremely firmly established that Sukuna can destroy Mahito effortlessly if he wishes, even in Embodiment of Self Perfection.

Then, Todo's arm gets blasted off, but as far as I can tell, they're not even in Mahito's domain; Mahito just runs over and blows it off as far as it looks. Idk man I just don't get this scene at all, could someone explain?

Mahito's domain is categorized as a guaranteed one hit domain by Nanami. But all he does is, like... outside the domain? blows off Tojo's arm as a regular attack, on the street, no domain. Is this domain supposed to be "written on air" like Sukuna's domain? So many questions.

------------------------------

2) What the flying gently caress is going on here? Is Choso like 13 feet tall? He must be, because they had zero reason to just slap him into a doorway. I get that thematically he's going to through a lot, and is kind of propping himself up in the doorway to collect his thoughts. But it just seems like such an unnecessary panel unless they're trying to showcase how tall Choso is or something. If I remember right from the latter parts of the Culling Games arc he didn't seem that tall...?

Taima fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Feb 20, 2023

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Taima posted:

Hey yall I have been re-reading the manga to prepare for the conclusion of the culling games arc. I assume a lot of you have too, but I had a couple of small questions that I hope you guys could help me understand.

The main question I have pertains to when Mahito uses his domain in 0.2 seconds, copying Gojo.

(by the way this is an interesting top level point that Gege seems to be making that Gojo can and will be surpassed or at least equaled as humanity and curses mix to level up together, but that's not the point of my question).

Here are the relevant pages:



This scene confuses the poo poo out of me. Mahito uses his domain but we don't actually see anyone inside it besides Mahito. Then has has a conversation with Sukuna, and I don't get why; I thought the whole point was he was outside of Sukuna's range, so why are they meeting in that way? And why is Sukuna so passive? He's inside Sukuna's domain for some reason, but as far as I know, enacted such a short domain to specifically prevent that?

Who is saying they "won't let that happen"? It's very strictly implied that Mahito is NOT trying to affect Sukuna, and is avoiding such an interaction on purpose, so what does that even mean?

And what does Sukuna's understanding with Itadori have to do with this conversation? Sukuna demonstrated, with only a few fingers of power, that he can override Mahito's domain without even using his own. That was the whole point of the Nanami/Yuji/Mahito fight's conclusion. So why does Mahito think he can kill Yuji, especially now that sukuna is ridiculously more powerful? Sukuna nearly killed Mahito last time with a split second flick of his wrist, so why the change of heart now?

If I take this whole thing at face value, it's implying that Mahito is bumping up against, but not affecting, Sukuna's soul, and is basically saying Sukuna can't do poo poo because there's no time to switch, even though he presumably would kill Mahito if he could.

But he doesn't do anything to Sukuna, or Yuji, and why would Mahito need to say all of this if he wasn't interacting, nor trying to interact, with Sukuna's soul? And it was extremely firmly established that Sukuna can destroy Mahito effortlessly if he wishes, even in Embodiment of Self Perfection.

Then, Todo's arm gets blasted off, but as far as I can tell, they're not even in Mahito's domain; Mahito just runs over and blows it off as far as it looks. Idk man I just don't get this scene at all, could someone explain?

Mahito's domain is categorized as a guaranteed one hit domain by Nanami. But all he does is, like... outside the domain? blows off Tojo's arm as a regular attack, on the street, no domain. Is this domain supposed to be "written on air" like Sukuna's domain? So many questions.

------------------------------

2) What the flying gently caress is going on here? Is Choso like 13 feet tall? He must be, because they had zero reason to just slap him into a doorway. I get that thematically he's going to through a lot, and is kind of propping himself up in the doorway to collect his thoughts. But it just seems like such an unnecessary panel unless they're trying to showcase how tall Choso is or something. If I remember right from the latter parts of the Culling Games arc he didn't seem that tall...?



Mahito activated his Domain for 0.2 seconds. During that 0.2 seconds he tapped Todo's arm with the guaranteed hit (He did not have time to choose where to hit him). Because his Domain touched Yuji as well he briefly touched Sukuna's soul like in the first battle, but because the Domain was active so briefly Sukuna was not able to retaliate against Mahito. Only Mahito is talking, he's just telling Sukuna he is going to kill Yuji and Sukuna won't be able to interfere regardless of whatever deals he has with Itadori. Also Mahito punched Yuji not Todo.

Choso is sitting by a maintenance hatch which are small in Shibuya Station.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Feb 20, 2023

Patware
Jan 3, 2005

MonsterEnvy posted:

I don't think that would do anything.

he's still gonna do it

Patware
Jan 3, 2005

eat 'em up yum

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

MonsterEnvy posted:

Mahito activated his Domain for 0.2 seconds. During that 0.2 seconds he tapped Todo's arm with the guaranteed hit (He did not have time to choose where to hit him). Because his Domain touched Yuji as well he briefly touched Sukuna's soul like in the first battle, but because the Domain was active so briefly Sukuna was not able to retaliate against Mahito. Only Mahito is talking, he's just telling Sukuna he is going to kill Yuji and Sukuna won't be able to interfere regardless of whatever deals he has with Itadori. Also Mahito punched Yuji not Todo.

Choso is sitting by a maintenance hatch which are small in Shibuya Station.

That’s your answer.Those little maintenance hatches are all over Tokyo stations.

Ohhh man seeing Shibuya animated will be a treat if they do it well, the Mahito fight in particular will be pure chaos on screen

yum
Oct 27, 2005

Only good things will come
to someone like
you.

Asuron posted:

That’s your answer.Those little maintenance hatches are all over Tokyo stations.

Ohhh man seeing Shibuya animated will be a treat if they do it well, the Mahito fight in particular will be pure chaos on screen

Season 2 of the anime is going to cover the Star Vessel arc as well as Shibuya in 2 cours (24-26 episodes). It's gonna be jam-packed!!

Taima
Dec 31, 2006

tfw you're peeing next to someone in the lineup and they don't know
Oooh ok I get it now thanks guys :)

I've been re-reading the whole manga and have noticed so many things. The manga really, really benefits from 1-2 repeat readings, especially the culling game has insanely better pacing when read at your own leisure.

Shibuya is one of my favorite arcs in all of anime/manga so having it animated along with the Star Vessel arc is going to be a feast for the soul. However the thing I want animated most is the fight between Hikari and Kashimo. That is my favorite fight in JJK.

quote:

An aside about Charles/Hikari and drawing:

On my second read of the Charles/Hikari fight, I totally missed the point of the conversation which was in hindsight obviously for Gege to air some grievances with the manga industry in Japan. The part where he breaks the dude's finger and goes "art doesn't have to be perfect and imperfect art can convey more emotion" made me laugh out loud because (and honestly I didn't notice this on the first read) Gege is comically horrible at drawing hands, to the point where it's kind of absurd.

I get his point, but to be fair the hands are really, really bad lol. From my perspective Gege has two impulses that stand out on the second reading:

1) The hands which are barely an upgrade from Final Fantasy 7

2) a major plot undercurrent is the mistreatment of women in Jujutsu society, which I actually love as a concept, but Gege also goes out of his way to objectify and hurt women in unnecessary ways. Even when he's trying to portray strong women, there are issues here, like the lady who hates the Fujiwara and is just drawn naked a bunch for, idk some reason. I guess she likes being aerodynamic!

Also the entire plot point of Mai and Maki being poo poo for Plot Reasons and Mai needing to kill herself so one of them could do anything. I don't get why he piles so much poo poo on women. It's to the point where whenever a woman is introduced I'm like, oh, dope, how is this lady going to get poo poo on later? Maki is essentially forced to become a male character to rival Toji. I would have liked her to retain her femininity and thought she was a cool character. Now she's super powerful but also super serious which makes her the same as many other male sorcerers.

Overall though these are relatively minor points. I loving love JJK!!!

yum posted:

I'm in the camp of Yuji not developing a technique. As noted by Choso, Yuji's specialty is his control of cursed energy, such as the ability to perform black flash almost as if on command, in addition to his monstrous physical strength. It's this hybrid aspect that separates him from Maki/Toji, who rely solely on physical ability with 0 cursed energy. This does put a ceiling on his capabilities though, at least according to the bird-strike lady, but you can become pretty powerful without a technique like the Kyoto new shadow style sword teacher. I feel it'll be whatever Kenjaku did to Yuji before birth + his familial history (where did he learn that ancient martial art? why did Kenjaku choose to infiltrate Yuji's family?) that brings him up to level.

Your viewpoint has been reinforced by this week's chapter (214). And I have to admit that Yuji beating people through sheer willpower and willingness to hurt himself is extremely on point thematically with the themes of JJK and specifically Yuji's character.

I do think we'll see him live long enough to become what he hates most, as that is heavily implied by the Mahito fight, so I'm curious to see how they work with that. They are setting Yuji up to be something of a monster, both in strength, and perhaps losing the morality that he tried so hard to preserve.

Gege is turning Yuji into a T-1000 that seems to automatically heal himself and has nearly unlimited strength which I enjoyed a lot more than I thought I would. At this point I don't think he needs a curse technique, but a domain would be nice, even if it's mostly ornamental (domains in general have kind of lost meaning in JJK but that's another topic). I don't mind though- even if most domains just become a cool art piece addition to the biggest fights, that's pretty dope.

Another angle would be for Yuji to truly master black flash in a way that keeps him at 120% potential at nearly all times, so basically a constant in-the-zone power buff instead of a curse technique, and that could include a more powerful, previously undiscovered version of Black Flash that powers him up even more and would sub for a finishing technique. The narrative idea being that Yuji is so attuned to Black Flash that he uncovers an entire upgraded level of ability (say, Black Flame or something).

I like this narratively because Yuji is new to the Jujutsu world, so discovering a new way to attune to curse energy above Black Flash would be in keeping with his theme of "becoming powerful partially because he doesn't have any prior training and therefore no prior learned constraints" a la divergent fist. Yuji doesn't have a lifetime of Jujutsu training to weigh him down; which would make a new discovery above Black Flash fit him like a glove in more than one way.

quote:

More thoughts on the story and 214:

My belief is also that Sukuna won't stay in Megumi's body; he will be forced to leave. It's hard to say whether he would go back into Yuji's body or simply use ten shadows to somehow retrieve his own. I don't think Megumi is "dead", not by a long shot, and the narrative doesn't really support Sukuna staying in his body forever either. It seems unlikely that he would return to Yuji at this point, but that's possible if Gege gets written into a corner and needs the plot to re-balance.

Sukuna entering Megumi's body could just be an elaborate excuse for Megumi to become extremely powerful by the time Sukuna is forced out. This feels inevitable; all of the main cast need insane power boosts to compete with what is happening in the story. And those power boosts need to happen sooner rather than later.

quote:

Power scaling issues and character glow-ups:

Gege wrote himself into a bit of a corner with the power scaling, which has had a negative impact on the series basically since its inception... it's not a bad thing, but it could be a road block to the pacing as he will need to go out of his way to power up, at the very least, Yuji... Megumi... probably Todo (I refuse to believe he would leave a crowd favorite of this magnitude dead or useless)... along with fun but classically useless women characters who would be rad to see empowered (looking at the Momo and Miwa here specifically, especially since they have both been invoked by the story in various ways recently, and are narrative dead ends if nothing powers them up) and of course Nobara.

There is no world in which Gojo and Sukuna are unsealed, and the cast doesn't become ludicrously powerful. There is no way to write that away at this point. Unless Sukuna transferring bodies is something of a red herring, which is possible but unlikely. The fact remains that once Sukuna reaches his full power, everyone else needs to get a glow-up before that or during it.

Especially since the story almost requires Gojo to be unsealed, and soon. Really loving soon. Like, in the next 10 chapters soon.

This is one of the things that harms JJK; Gege has some narrative elements that almost force the story in certain directions. For instance, 90% of the time the only characters who lose body parts, are ones that can ultimately heal themselves or are close to someone who can. Reverse Curse Technique is a blessing and a curse on the series - fights are hard capped in intensity if people can't lose body parts) but it also hamstrings the narrative. Gege is starting to give everyone reverse curse technique to the point where it seems like it'll be a regular ability more than something special. JJK has a few of these elements, but that's a topic for another day.

quote:

More general thoughts on the story and the transition of theme/intensity between the arcs covered by the anime so far, and Shibuya:

Overall JJK is fuckin cookin right now and I can't wait to see what happens next. This week's chapter (214) is amazing. And I can't overstate how incredible the concept of the Shibuya arc with an unlimited budget will be. And if that does well, the Culling Game fights with unlimited budget will also be out of control.

My only issue with Shibuya being an anime is how can they possibly show that on TV? The violence and terror (along with the vibe switch) is basically the entire point of the Shibuya arc. If they have to scale it down it will hurt the arc in huge ways. Though I guess they could just censor it, and then release an uncensored blu ray collection. We'll see. Regardless, if they don't go all out showing the complete and utter disregard for human life that occurs in the manga, the narrative edge is lost.

Probably my favorite part of JJK is how it starts as an intentionally somewhat cheesy shonen and then, in Shibuya, transitions to something utterly different, confusing, and horrifying. A true terrorist attack that comes out of nowhere. That change in tone is loving masterful and in my eyes, one of the best things in anime/manga EVER. That will be undermined if Gege can't portray the violence and cruelty that he wants. It's essential that Shibuya be aired as-is. At the same time I don't see how that's possible... :(

The transition from light-hearted to cruel and violent is especially powerful because if JJK kept on that initial arc - where the implied story is Yuji collecting all of the Sukuna fingers with his friends, over presumably like 15 mass market, money-printing seasons, becoming the next One Piece or DBZ- it would have been one of the most easy to write, popular, and money making shows in the history of anime.

Gege threw that all away, on purpose, and the result is just so loving powerful. It's unreal, and something American media would literally Never loving Do because of the potential impact on revenue. Instead of trying to end JJK in a timely manner, media strong-arming would force it to run for 20 years. Instead Gege tears it all down for the sake of the story and pacing. America is losing its grip on artistic media and I'm glad other countries are starting to step in and make their own mass-market projects.

The anime masterfully doubles down on this concept by airing one of the lightest, most playful EDs in the history of the genre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6riDJMI-Y8U

The op and eds of JJK (and the music in general) are a loving master class for SO many reasons. It's a classic, possibly best-in-class example of how an anime can transform an original manga and make it far more than the sum of its parts. Even with the roadblocks inherent in retaining the pure violence and terror the Shibuya arc entails, if anyone can do it, it's MAPPA.

But that deserves it's own entire discussion for another day. The only anime that comes close, for me, in terms of absolutely bomb op/ed that completely recontextualize what's happening, is Re Zero (but I get that's controversial, and isn't in the scope of this already giant post).

Forgive the length on this one please, and I won't blame yall if no one reads a word of it :) turns out I had a lot to say.

Taima fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Feb 23, 2023

Taima
Dec 31, 2006

tfw you're peeing next to someone in the lineup and they don't know
Refined my stupid mega-post lol

EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013

I read your post OP.

I agree with many parts. I do agree Gege has a problem writing women. He does a good job setting up strong cool women which is a cut above many mangaka but then just has them owned anyway so reliably that it sucks.

I disagree on Maki though. I don't think she sacrificed femininity or anything. She used to have longer hair and wore a skirt instead of trousers but I don't think she had traditional feminine behaviours or anything. Or rather I don't think she had behaviours or traits then that were stereotypically female that she doesn't exhibit now. I think she's always been very serious too, and everyone has grown more serious post-Shibuya. She had a pretty normal chat with Kamo just before Naoya's curse arrived.

I don't think she was forced to become like Toji either so much as they are both just antithetical to the things Zen'in stand for. Maki had attained a body of equal power to Toji but she hadn't yet achieved a mentality like his. He wasn't just strong because of Heaven's Restriction, he was an absolute motherfucker. I appreciated that just getting his power didn't make her incredible, it was her growth mentally and spiritually that finally put her on his par. Also considering she eradicated Zen'in instead of just leaving them I think she's being set up to be greater than he ever was. Toji abandoned pride and desire to get strong and died to Gojo when he wanted to prove himself. Maki has never lost her will to stay with people and exceed her haters.

I don't think Yuji will become a T-1000 like you described because that's already Hakari's power and I don't think he'd double dip. I'm staying strong we're going to see Yuji use a cleave or failing that his mother's power.

I think only Itadori and Megumi need power boosts really. I like your suggestion that maybe Sukuna makes Megumi advance more quickly along his path after controlling his body. Like Megumi gets "see this is what you can do" style thing.

Itadori I think we are about to see make that jump with whatever he does as he recovers.

I don't think domains are useless or pointless rn they are still every bit as powerful as always. In fact I think the inevitable Gojo Sukuna fight is going to come down to domain expansion. I'm really curious who wins there because as powerful as Infinite Void is the narrator voice calls Sukuna's boundary less DE "an artist using the air as canvas" and a total masterwork. God I hope we get that fight though if we do my assumption would be Gojo loses somehow due to it being a shonene and the MC having to win lol.

For Maki/Mai stuff I am in two minds. It's pretty sad how it ends for Mai but I found it incredibly cathartic how she wiped out Zen'in after lol. I guess it can feel bad that Mai ends up just reduced to being motivation for Maki but I thought the execution was done well enough that what it was going for worked on me. It wasn't as well done as Junpei I think though. Where he was the same for Itadori but I think I was more invested in that character than I was with Mai so it didn't just fee like he existed for Yuji to be motivated by.

On a final note I don't think JJK is bleak or hopeless at all though the characters often feel that way and especially now. I don't see Itadori becoming what he hates. I see him finally gaining the same compassion for himself he has for others and that he deserves to live. I think he's truly considered himself dead since his stay of execution and that's how he's been treating himself. Even taking the blame for Shibuya in Higurama's court. Basically I want a Nico Robin "I want to live" moment from our boy

Bread Set Jettison
Jan 8, 2009

Everyone will forgive all of Geges sins if Nobara comes back

Bread Set Jettison fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Feb 23, 2023

EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013

In other news a collector's edition for the first 13 episodes just arrived



Has a bunch of really nice thick art cards



Disc holder is a nice unfolding one with lots of unique art and each disc is unique looking





Has interviews with all the key cast VAs





Definitely hoping to grab the equivalent for episodes 13-26

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream
Saying Maki sacrificed her femininity by getting a short haircut and mostly remaining the same person but more determined is incredibly telling OP.

yum
Oct 27, 2005

Only good things will come
to someone like
you.
Gege's treatment of women especially sucks since he's made some pretty cool female characters with interesting powers, but they get instantly demolished for plot reasons. I think if he weren't plowing through the story at breakneck speed there'd be more time for them to shine, like Nobara's fights during the relatively low-stakes pre-Shibuya and the Kyoto school fair.

With Maki, Gege has made it pretty explicit that she's currently equal to Toji. By the end of the series, I believe that she will surpass him - perhaps she'll be placed in a similar situation as Toji vs Gojo except she won't make the same mistake of following her pride and ignoring her instincts.

I like Higuramas description of Yuji: He's like an unbreakable doll. I think it's true in more ways than one. I really don't have any good guesses as to what Yuji's power up will be, that Kenjaku fucker is hard to predict! I don't have any qualms with Yuji gaining Cleave or anything, I just don't see the point. I don't think it really adds anything, why do we need two characters with the same power? It doesn't really complement his close fighting style either.

If Gojo does fight Sukuna, I think Gojo will lose the domain fight. It's been said that in a domain vs domain battle, the more refined domain wins, and Sukuna's barrierless domain is by far the most refined we've seen. On that note, I really like Kenjaku and Sukuna's domains. Kenjaku's domain expansion hand sign represents faith/prayer and he's the only character in the series with a hand sign that doesn't represent a god. He's completely devoted to his goal of finding something greater than himself to worship that the externalization of his ego is a totem symbolizing this quest. Sukuna's domain expansion is just a massive shrine dedicated to himself lol. A reflection of his divinity


I think what we're missing is further explanation about how binding vows work. They seem incredibly important and versatile - Hakari made one in seconds to protect his body, Sukuna uses one to expand his domain's range, etc. I think the fan book said Heavenly restrictions are essentially binding vows made before birth. We'll probably find out more as we learn more about Yuji's past and Kenjaku mom's manipulations.


EmmyOk posted:

In other news a collector's edition for the first 13 episodes just arrived


These are cool! The lines of cursed energy kind of replicates the sketchy artstyle of the manga.

EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013

I agree on the DE face-off for sure and it's been my theory for a while. As a domain expansion is the only thing that would allow circumvention of limitless. Gojo has been literally the most perfect and strongest sorcerer in every aspect but only Sukuna got that incredible narration about domain refinement.

I do agree that reusing a power isn't nearly as interesting as it being a new one. I just think cleave is really cool lol and seeing Yuji use it would be badass. It's also just from Gojo saying Sukuna's technique would be carved into him. I haven't checked the t/l tumblr's on those chapters though. However the anime dub described it like that. There's also the fact we don't know Sukuna's actual technique. I think there is more going on than slash(?) and cleave. Whatever he did to use fire against Jogo really confused Jogo. I also think Itadori getting the gravity power would be less interesting even though CT is mostly inherited.

I can't recall them mentioning powers manifesting in ways other than inheritance but people have mentioned that so I assume it's possible

EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013

I agree and beelive Maki will exceed Toji by series end. I think not from giving up her pride though. Toji isolated himself and wanted success only for himself. I think Maki being dedicated to creating a place for weaker people like Mai is what will ultimately raise her above.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
so Yuji has reverse cursed technique judging by the hole on the back of his shirt or Sukuna was actually suppressing his CT and he’s got super regeneration or something as his natural ability. Hell it might just be heavenly restriction

Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

https://onepiecechapters.com/chapters/5649/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-214?&date=23-2-2023-21

I guess i dont understand why these female characters exist to just get splatted every other chapter, other than Angel being a nothing AGAIN this chapter did rule.

ChaseSP
Mar 25, 2013



Asuron posted:

so Yuji has reverse cursed technique judging by the hole on the back of his shirt or Sukuna was actually suppressing his CT and he’s got super regeneration or something as his natural ability. Hell it might just be heavenly restriction

Hole is just from usual anime poo poo showing a shockwave from a powerful blow blowing out fabric on the other side, there's no actual hole on his shirt or anything in the front

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Hypocrisy
Oct 4, 2006
Lord of Sarcasm

Jerkface posted:

https://onepiecechapters.com/chapters/5649/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-214?&date=23-2-2023-21

I guess i dont understand why these female characters exist to just get splatted every other chapter, other than Angel being a nothing AGAIN this chapter did rule.

Hana nooooooo...

Yuji just marching forward was a badass spread though.

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