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The Luffy line just feels a little corny because it doesn't really suit the character.
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Jun 18, 2023 06:06
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Because the series already has jokes
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Jun 18, 2023 06:06
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hatty posted:Because the series already has jokes And that means they can't add in more? They aren't going to use the manga as a script
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Jun 18, 2023 06:07
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Hold Up. Pay attention to the music in the gum gum pistol scene. Is that the Joy Boy Heartbeat?
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Jun 18, 2023 06:08
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Eiba posted:So what's wrong with quips? People rightfully got tired of Joss Whedon style “so that just happened” quips in Marvel movies and such but don’t know how to articulate what they don’t like about them and somehow that lead to every bit of brief humorous dialogue or characters riffing off of each other being conflated with them online
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Jun 18, 2023 06:44
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Arist posted:The Luffy line just feels a little corny because it doesn't really suit the character. Luffy has a poor attention span and comes off as unserious and says dumb, honest things that are often funny and often end up being pretty insightful. What part of that is incompatible with quips? I honestly think there must be something I'm missing about quips since people hate them so much, so that's an honest question. hatty posted:Because the series already has jokes I'd be surprised all the complaints about quips are really just people being grumpy that they didn't use the exact same jokes from the manga. Edit: Hitlersaurus Christ posted:People rightfully got tired of Joss Whedon style “so that just happened” quips in Marvel movies and such but don’t know how to articulate what they don’t like about them and somehow that lead to every bit of brief humorous dialogue or characters riffing off of each other being complained about.
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Jun 18, 2023 06:44
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I hope Luffy punches the bad guy
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Jun 18, 2023 06:57
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I generally can ignore quippy dialogue if it's even somewhat more thought out than "well THAT just happened" stuff. But it just feels kinda wrong coming out of Luffy's mouth. If Usopp had said that I don't even think I would have noticed beyond maybe a polite, bemused chuckle at the in sync response. It does make sense to me on a meta level why they would make that choice though. Luffy's primary conversation settings are Meat and Adventure so if you want to give your lead actor some more lines you've got to go somewhere with it. Also I don't really mind Nami in this? I think a lot of people are glossing over that she's a bit standoffish and planning to rob the rest of the crew at the first opportunity in the run up to Arlong Park. I'm hoping that once we hit that episode she can open up a bit more into the only sane person keeping the crew from drowning.
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Jun 18, 2023 06:59
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Luffy is too dumb to be meta
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Jun 18, 2023 07:01
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Eiba posted:"Corny" seems exactly in line with Luffy's character. quote:
Bc they're a crutch and I'd rather have a closer direct adaption than have the people who thought the Cowboy Bebop jokes were good write jokes for One Piece too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inVBz0Tv03U Look at this and tell me you want this type of writing in One Piece.
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Jun 18, 2023 07:06
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Sounds fine to me.
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Jun 18, 2023 07:16
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Kild posted:What was insightful about Luffy saying there's some tension. Luffy just ignores minor spats like that because he knows their true feelings already. I was going to say not every dumb thing Luffy says has to be insightful, it's just that he often shows his exceptional judge of character, but you picked the one quip that actually did lean into that aspect of Luffy. I don't really get the rest of your post. I understand you (and many others) don't like quips. I'm asking why. I feel like Cowboy Bebop's heightened reality was cool and minimalist, so maybe quips don't work great there. Haven't seen the show so I don't know how it worked out. One Piece is very goofy. Like quips are goofy. Right? What am I missing? They've been used badly so they're always bad?
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Jun 18, 2023 07:25
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:People rightfully got tired of Joss Whedon style “so that just happened” quips in Marvel movies and such but don’t know how to articulate what they don’t like about them and somehow that lead to every bit of brief humorous dialogue or characters riffing off of each other being conflated with them online This is a dishonest way of presenting people's complaints. The Whedon-style dialogue is not really OP's thing at all, so it doesn't fit and feels off. "Brief humorous dialogue" happens all the time between members of the crew but it's never been presented like this. That line doesn't really fit Luffy at all imo and that's a character-specific thing, not me being so stupid I hate all short form jokes being told by characters. Eiba posted:This is true even though the crewmembers haven't accepted it yet, because Luffy is blithely aware of their potential and assuming (rightly) that things will work out. His attempt at conflict resolution comes off as kind of naive and childish, but his judge of character is spot on. To me, it feels like it's a broad-strokes version of Luffy's personality shoved through a corporate joke machine. You're right that his general personality is there, but the character voice feels all wrong. It's like they're trying to turn Luffy into Peter Parker, which would be a major misstep. That's why I feel it doesn't fit him at all. Eiba posted:One Piece is very goofy. Like quips are goofy. Right? What am I missing? They've been used badly so they're always bad? People aren't allergic to quips. They don't like the specific example that they've been given because the voice is wrong, and fear that it will lead to other specific examples that they don't like because lovely Netflix shows in the very recent past by the same production companies have done the same thing. There're also many ways to be goofy, and I don't feel that the franchise is goofy in this way. Eiba posted:I understand you (and many others) don't like quips. I'm asking why. There's no evidence of it in this project (and I hope there never will be), but my personal dislike of overly quippy dialogue comes from how they're emblematic of one thing I loving hate about certain adaptations of works: the fact that these works seem to be ashamed of being fantasy or sci-fi. Being fantastical or earnestly ridiculous is too gauche or childish, so they wink at the audience and make fun of themselves in an honestly quite mean-spirited way. That's not what this project is doing, but it's very easy for a badly-scripted comedic work to veer into low-quality meta humour that's really quite tired at this point. You can absolutely be funny and goofy and dumb in a work without drawing audiences' attentions to it with that kind of dialogue. Just let things be ridiculous. You don't have to be the class clown and point it out to me. Tonally, quips can be all sorts of weird. Again, there's no real evidence of it here, but notice how all the pretend dialogue from the thread is of relatively serious or emotional moments. Badly timed quips, the likes of which plagued Hellboy 2019 and some of the Marvel movies, undercut serious moments through forced laughs. One of my favourite things about One Piece is how Oda lets ridiculous stuff happen but absolutely understands how to write and carry legitimately cool things in the same story. Legitimately cool bad guys aren’t undermined in their cool scenes by a peanut gallery chiming in. Poorly timed quips undercut that, making it look as if the writers don't trust the emotional core of the scene and have to distract the audience. In short, I personally feel that, when used in the Marvel way, they're not right for this story. One Piece is distinctly not self-serious but I don’t feel that it's quiptastically self-aware either. GruntMountain fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Jun 18, 2023 |
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Jun 18, 2023 07:34
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quips is as meaningless a term as twee but people specifically dont like a style of derivative modern comedy writing where every joke has a singular style and voice regardless of the character or situation it comes from and that's what they're usually observing when they call something quippy, they dont just have an allergic reaction to a character spouting a one-liner lol
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Jun 18, 2023 07:36
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Eiba posted:That's... the weirdest example because it's exactly Luffy's normal kind of dumb insight. He's saying something kind of dumb and obvious on the surface, but more importantly observing that they're a crew. This is true even though the crewmembers haven't accepted it yet, because Luffy is blithely aware of their potential and assuming (rightly) that things will work out. His attempt at conflict resolution comes off as kind of naive and childish, but his judge of character is spot on. Am I being trolled? Luffy sits there and laughs in that situation. The situation itself also doesn't make sense because Zoro calls Luffy Captain within 5 minutes of being untied so him denying being part of a crew is just stupid. GruntMountain posted:To me, it feels like it's a broad-strokes version of Luffy's personality shoved through a corporate joke machine. You're right that his general personality is there, but the character voice feels all wrong. It's like they're trying to turn Luffy into Peter Parker, which would be a major misstep. That's why I feel it doesn't fit him at all. Precisely. He's Luffy, not Spiderman
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Jun 18, 2023 07:48
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the problem with quips is usually theyre just kind of ad libs style writing in most cases at best, and at worst are used to add comedic beats to moments that do not need them at all--which is what makes them so obvious in a certain kind of action/adventure movie in the past 10 years like almost all writing it just depends on how theyre used.
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Jun 18, 2023 07:54
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anime was right posted:the problem with quips is usually theyre just kind of ad libs style writing in most cases at best, and at worst are used to add comedic beats to moments that do not need them at all--which is what makes them so obvious in a certain kind of action/adventure movie in the past 10 years Yeah bathos isn't inherently awful but a lot of these Netflix writers use it as a crutch. They either don't believe in the source material or they're just trash writers who only know how to write in that one way.
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Jun 18, 2023 08:54
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The big issue with 'quips' is that it's a tell for low confidence in a joke. It's a hedged bet. Like, instead of just having a character say something goofy and have it answered, the media has to then make sure you know they know it's dumb/goofy/cliche, instead of just committing to the dumb/goof/cliche. Which was clever in the 90s but is very played out nowadays. It undercuts sincerity terribly, and for a story where a characters sincerity/dreams really do matter, isn't a great sign. Will be fine if it's just like, Zoro's thing and not everyone elses. But a lot of media (Renfield, Spiderverse, Rick and Morty, etc.) as of late has every character doing it. Hence the paranoia about it. Eiba posted:I feel like Cowboy Bebop's heightened reality was cool and minimalist, so maybe quips don't work great there. Haven't seen the show so I don't know how it worked out. One Piece is very goofy. Like quips are goofy. Right? What am I missing? They've been used badly so they're always bad? Among the biggest sins of that show (as someone who kind of dug it anyway) was that they sacrificed a lot of the weight of the world in favor of dialog that just didn't take the world very seriously. Like, ironic detachment makes sense to a degree, but when everyone is doing it, as an audience you also have a hard time taking it seriously. Which for Bebop, given the places and themes it goes to, is a huge problem. Among OP's big triumphs is how freakin' sincere it is, even to the stupid bits. Just sending a prayer up that the Netflix show doesn't undercut that, is all.
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Jun 18, 2023 09:01
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The big issue with 'quips' and/or 'Whedon-style dialog' is that neither of these things mean anything objective and everyone who complains about it is an insufferable loser. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 18, 2023 09:10
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show looks like poo poo and its jokes are annoying instead of funny
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Jun 18, 2023 09:31
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Libra posted:The Lord of the Coast? Yeah right. That overgrown garden eel couldn't bite off a finger, let alone an arm.
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Jun 18, 2023 10:04
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Show looks fine. A bit rough around the edges, but most shows do during their first few episodes. Jeff Ward looks amazing as Menacing-Buggy, can't wait to see the other side of the character. The stretching CG during the final shot does look a bit weird, but as folks elsewhere have said, that's the worst it's likely to ever look because of how they slow it down and focus on the effect. It'll be fine during fast paced action scenes, plus they'll get better at the effect with practice and experience. I loved seeing Shanks, Koby, and Garp's ship. Usopp looks so good I didn't even realise he didn't have his trademark long nose! I'm less happy with Sanji's look though... his twirly brows feel much more important to his character, though yeah I guess it's easy enough to write around them. Can't wait to see more of the show!
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Jun 18, 2023 11:11
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Eiba posted:That's... the weirdest example because it's exactly Luffy's normal kind of dumb insight. He's saying something kind of dumb and obvious on the surface, but more importantly observing that they're a crew. This is true even though the crewmembers haven't accepted it yet, because Luffy is blithely aware of their potential and assuming (rightly) that things will work out. His attempt at conflict resolution comes off as kind of naive and childish, but his judge of character is spot on.  The delivery came out as a very Luffyish, dumb, sincere thing he would say. If anything, it reminded me of how Luffy immediately starts referring to Sanji as part of his crew once he decides to recruit him. It's fine to use a similar gag with Nami and Zoro protesting, because this is the very early days of the crew and nobody but Luffy really has a reason to trust anyone else yet. It's funny to see people blowing it way outta proportion, and the rote memes are really getting to be as tired as the quips themselves at this point. I still think the show is gonna be a guilty pleasure at best, but to me the trailer didn't come off nearly as embarrassing as it could have been.
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Jun 18, 2023 11:48
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Oh and for those of you crying over the witty one-liners... keep in mind the people who make trailers love those types of lines because the humour can land with little-to-no context. I'm sure the couple of funny moments in this trailer aren't representative of all the comedy in the show.
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Jun 18, 2023 11:52
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i want to see them stretch luffy's head out of the pool
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Jun 18, 2023 12:32
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jassa posted:I'm sure the couple of funny moments in this trailer aren't representative of all the comedy in the show. oh just you wait and see notwithyourheart fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jun 18, 2023 |
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Jun 18, 2023 13:14
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So... you're a pirate, with a swordfish nose, and your name is ARR-Long... a bit on the nose, don't you think?
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Jun 18, 2023 13:45
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Last Celebration posted:drat I didn’t know 4Kids was writing this Well then it wouldn't be bloody, Zoro would be covered in jam.
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Jun 18, 2023 13:51
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Bleck posted:The big issue with 'quips' and/or 'Whedon-style dialog' is that neither of these things mean anything objective and everyone who complains about it is an insufferable loser. 
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Jun 18, 2023 13:54
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I'm going to watch it because I'm an idiot and it'll make oda happy
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Jun 18, 2023 14:00
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Jose posted:I'm going to watch it because I'm an idiot and it'll make oda happy This. It looks fine (not good), will most likely end up being bad, but I'll watch it. I also don't hate the Death Note adaptation they did though (Light is depicted as dumb piece of poo poo like he should be, and Misa is an actual character) so who am I to have an opinion.
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Jun 18, 2023 14:02
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I dont care how much oda wants this to succeed or how funny itd be to see season 2 cgi chopper, im not giving netflix my money again
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Jun 18, 2023 14:05
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Kild posted:Am I being trolled? Luffy sits there and laughs in that situation. The situation itself also doesn't make sense because Zoro calls Luffy Captain within 5 minutes of being untied so him denying being part of a crew is just stupid. I had never thought of aloofness as one of Luffy's defining or most appealing characteristics, but I guess he really is pretty aloof and verbally uncommunicative in the manga. It's a testament to Oda's skill as a writer that so much of Luffy's character is shown by his actions. Things are going to be different in this adaptation, and I don't think it's worth getting too bothered by that myself. Maybe Zoro doesn't call Luffy captain right after getting rescued. That's okay. The story where he does that still exists, and will always be the real story of One Piece. This is going to be a reinterpretation where Luffy is chattier to help a modern TV audience connect to him in 8 episodes or whatever they have. His chattiness has still managed to capture the essence of his character, I think, from the extremely limited examples we see in the trailer. That's honestly pretty impressive to me- they managed to capture his character while making changes appropriate to the medium. I have no idea what you mean by "crutch" when you keep bringing it up. You mean something useful? The TV show has different constraints and a different audience with different expectations and is using different tools. If you think using those tools leads to issues with the story or characterization in specific cases, I can respect that. But just expressing hatred of those tools as if they're self evidently lazy and bad doesn't make much sense to me. Goofy quips are a perfect fit for One Piece.
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Jun 18, 2023 14:16
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mabels big day posted:I dont care how much oda wants this to succeed or how funny itd be to see season 2 cgi chopper, im not giving netflix my money again It's Netflix, we're not seeing season 2 Chopper either way.
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Jun 18, 2023 14:25
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Coby is blonde instead of pink haired? 0 out of 10, Netflix should be shot.SyntheticPolygon posted:Its a bad gag because Zoro agreeing with him would have been funnier and more appropriate to the character. It's only because they cut off the part where Zoro insists that great fighters call out every power move, not just finishers.
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Jun 18, 2023 14:32
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Yeah if it didn't have the sassy sarcastic comeback from Zoro, I think it'd work.
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Jun 18, 2023 14:37
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It understands that Zoro's a grouch while simultaneously falling to understand that Zoro's also an idiot.
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Jun 18, 2023 14:39
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Characters being genuinely idiotic while also reconciling that with their other character traits was probably always going to be pretty hard to do in a show like this, by virtue of live action being less exaggerated and cartoony in all respects than an actual cartoon would be. Writing that out makes me a bit warmer to the dialogue choices I had issues with earlier.
GruntMountain fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jun 18, 2023 |
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Jun 18, 2023 14:48
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I don't think they should be doing attack name callouts regularly (rather than just as a joke sometimes) so I think that's a reasonable scene to establish that Zoro is more serious than Luffy. Plus I imagine he'll get into it later on
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Jun 18, 2023 15:08
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The fact that neither Usopp nor Sanji had a single line in the trailer is indicative of either the overall dialogue being bad, or the dudes who cut the trailer just combing through for the couple of lines that most pop in the standard trailer way. I'm leaning toward it being trailer dude brain considering that almost all the dialogue in the trailer, other than the two "quippy" scenes, is clearly cut up dialogue from unconnected scenes dubbed over what's happening on screen. Live action Merry masthead is still kind of terrifying and continually makes me think of the goat in Drag Me To Hell.
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Jun 18, 2023 15:12
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