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I understand the principle and the general benefit, but it seems just from this one case to be a huge amount of cost and effort and variance from the norm for a fairly temperate climate. Like I get it for Texas or Norway.
Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 09:10
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WhatEvil posted:Skimming stuff isn't that hard. I was intimidated as gently caress when I had to fix a ceiling after a leak but I gave watched a bunch of vids on the old tubes by a guy called "Vancouver Carpenter" and cracked on. Ha, I watched the same guy. He does make it seem ridiculously easy, but after a while I did get the hang of it.
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Aug 10, 2023 09:57
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Jaded Burnout posted:I understand the principle and the general benefit, but it seems just from this one case to be a huge amount of cost and effort and variance from the norm for a fairly temperate climate. Like I get it for Texas or Norway. I read an article about the PassivHaus standard from Building Science and some of its requirements/recommendations are...interesting to say the least and are probably not doable in a colder climate like Norway. Some required design limitations were put in place in the 80s when construction science and materials were not what we have now so there's things like worries about condensation in super-airtight homes that are not an issue anymore but still are part of the PH standard. It's also very euro-centric and does not even consider some things that are more common in north america like floor-based heating and such.
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Aug 10, 2023 14:15
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Huh floor heating is common in europe? I would've thought it was more common because hydronic radiant heating is more common here while forced air heating is common in NA. And I hate the term europe centric because what they do in the UK doesn't resemble how they build in France or Germany and so on, and how they build houses in the continent or UK doesn't resemble how we built in the nordics either (and the border is soft, building practices even change from northern to southern sweden for instance).
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Aug 10, 2023 14:49
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Side note: I live in a 1997 rental apartment in Oslo. There is no central HVAC, just an extractor fan for the kitchen and bathroom. Running the extractor fan does indeed make it hard to open both the apartment and balcony door, and the only airflow into the apartment is through two holes bored through the outer wall, with very restrictive grates. It's a real challenge keeping the place below 25C when it rains and we have to close the balcony door, and it's borderline unlivable if there is a heat wave. Very cozy in the winter, though; there is central heating but we barely need it. Separately, Norway has a standard for passive houses, NS3700/NS3701. I'm not going to buy a copy to check the details, but Google translate does a decent job with this explainer. (Our place predates it, and also lacks several features.) Computer viking fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 14:51
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I loving hate stuffy houses.
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Aug 10, 2023 14:54
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goatface posted:I loving hate stuffy houses. Mmh. The good thing about this apartment is that it runs through the building, so we can get a decent circulation if we open the windows/door on both the north and south face. 99 shouldn't have that problem, since he's building it with proper HVAC and can pump a lot of (temperature regulated) air into and out of each room.
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Aug 10, 2023 15:01
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You say that but the havc will be hooked up to the sewer vent somehow and the first use will end up with 99 gassing himself as after his first poo poo or when the pump freezes from terror the hcac system vents poo gas through the house. The airtightness will come back to haunt him, as the miles of wire and Ethernet cable cause the brain of the house to gain sentience and trap him inside.  Btw I love this thread and while 99 is messing up and taking the ribbing well it's been very entertaining and worth it. When its finally finished it'll look great. Also move into the storage container
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Aug 10, 2023 15:51
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Live in a new build myself, everything goes up through vents that are in a vented tile in the roof which all the various extractor fans are connected to. Have two internal waste pipes. Still annoying as I would prefer underfloor heating over radiators and at some point will look into some form of cooling here as we still put in heat reclaiming combi boilers. No idea on the passive house stuff but this is meant to be pretty airtight and would be EPC A if it wasn’t for the fact that the solar panels are limited because for some reason they only have four compared to the 6 those that face away from the road (even if facing the same direction) Anyway, so far it’s looking like it will be quite nice when L house is done
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Aug 10, 2023 15:53
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Starbucks posted:Anyway, so far it’s looking like it will be quite nice when L house is done When it's done? Lol 99 lives only to suffer. When the last board is plastered he'll realise that the L is facing the wrong way and start the whole project again.
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Aug 10, 2023 15:58
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Fidelitious posted:. Some required design limitations were put in place in the 80s when construction science and materials were not what we have now so there's things like worries about condensation in super-airtight homes that are not an issue anymore but Is that not an issue anymore? What changed?
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Aug 10, 2023 16:12
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UCS Hellmaker posted:The airtightness will come back to haunt him, as the miles of wire and Ethernet cable cause the brain of the house to gain sentience and trap him inside. "I'm sorry 99, I can't do that." E: Alternatively, 99 trying to change the default settings on poop.ini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpTHrdemfQo Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 17:24
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I think some people are possibly missing the main idea about having a very airtight house. I think NJAN99 has mentioned it already but with high airtightness you put in a heat (and moisture?) recovery vent and fan so you are actually exchanging air all the time with the outside, but keeping the internal atmosphere at a comfortable temperature and humidity at a minimal cost. If you have decent insulation and high airtightness you can reduce your heating and cooling bills significantly but also make the house MUCH more comfortable because you eliminate all uncomfortably warm and hot spots like you get in really old houses. We've been working on the airtightness of our house (in Canada) and what we've done so far is to rake away a lot of the (loose-fill) loft insulation and taped up any holes in the vapour barrier (penetrations for lights etc. plus seams and random holes of which there were many), plus been around the house with a tube of silicone and filling in holes at windows etc... and we did an airtightness test before and after - my wife is in building science and has access to the kit for free so why not. Anyway I think we improved our airtightness by like 25% and we've seen a pretty nice drop in our heating bills. I think our "equivalent leakage area" is now about 1 square foot - in other words if all of your leakage for the whole house were going through one hole, that would be the size of that hole. It sounds a lot but that's actually quite good for a 30+ y/o detached home like ours.
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Aug 10, 2023 17:46
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Personally it's not the idea of an air tight house that can be confusing with this build, it's the execution. Airtight homes with ERVs for ventilation is not a novel idea in 2023 and something I'd expect in a mid-high end custom home, but at least on this side of the Atlantic that airtightness is done at the exterior. Its confusing seeing 99 dealing with tape and membranes inside the house, trying to seal individual rooms. The closest thing I've seen elsewhere is with a post frame build but at least in that case since none of the internal structures are loading bearing they had a continuous membrane inside the exterior walls and separating the attic from the rest of the house, none of this individual room nonsense. If this is all just to have dedicated ventilation to each room... well, why in the world is the tightness needed for that except to bond villain people with gas?
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Aug 10, 2023 18:18
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To compartmentalize things enough that 99 can track a leak down to the individual room when one of the cheese bricks fully crumbles into dust?
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Aug 10, 2023 18:27
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Sensing a lot of jealousy from a bunch of loose air havers.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:31
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If anything my air is too tight
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Aug 10, 2023 20:51
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Elem7 posted:, but at least on this side of the Atlantic that airtightness is done at the exterior. Pretty sure this depends on the climate more than nation. You don't want to trap moisture. Some places works to dry in, others dry out. In colder places barrier goes at the interior, at least that's my understanding
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Aug 10, 2023 21:10
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I know my house isn't airtight because I always have the windows open.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:12
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Dysgenesis posted:I know my house isn't airtight because I always have the windows open. I worked for the university accommodation department whilst I returned to uni to achieve my pretty poster making degree. We had a passivehaus accommodation block built at huge expense and to huge acclaim. Then we moved 300 self orientated 18 year olds into it who hosed the entire building concept by having their windows open the whole time rather than rely on the buildings super well designed air tight ventilation systems that meant it didn't need any heating. Winter comes round and everyone is freezing and their lawyer dad's are threatening us so every student is bought an electric radiator to plug in in their rooms. Humanity fucks everything up
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Aug 10, 2023 21:20
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lol the windows were all open to let the weed smoke out right
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Aug 10, 2023 21:24
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I worked for the university accommodation department whilst I returned to uni to achieve my pretty poster making degree. I also burn coal for heating.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:26
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Leperflesh posted:lol the windows were all open to let the weed smoke out right No, that's just incense they were burning.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:26
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Leperflesh posted:lol the windows were all open to let the weed smoke out right or the doors propped open with rocks for the pizza delivery lad
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Aug 10, 2023 21:26
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This is the bit I don't get about passive house philosophy. I like having windows and my back door open, a summer or autumn breeze feels really nice, you can get the scent of the jasmine and herbs growing in your garden, connect to the outdoors. Being in a hermetically-sealed box (or L) just isn't for me tbh
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Aug 10, 2023 21:33
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Failed Imagineer posted:This is the bit I don't get about passive house philosophy. I like having windows and my back door open, a summer or autumn breeze feels really nice, you can get the scent of the jasmine and herbs growing in your garden, connect to the outdoors. Being in a hermetically-sealed box (or L) just isn't for me tbh Google/AI will read your messages/determine your preferences and I will pump relevant fragrances into your cell through the ventilation system via a small rubix cube of scent installed in the central vacc.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:39
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Google/AI will read your messages/determine your preferences and I will pump relevant fragrances into your cell through the ventilation system via a small rubix cube of scent installed in the central vacc. Cube Cube 2: Hypercube Cube Zero House of L
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Aug 10, 2023 21:42
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Minimizing heating/cooling demands is something I can only get behind, but from what I've read about Passive House design it's always left me with questions. For one, it feels to be much more about the branding and Officialness of it than actual savings. Two, at some point you're going to run into diminishing returns, and Passive House feels like it goes to great lengths (and expenses) to get those last few percents of savings, to the point where you'd have to wonder if it makes sense. Lastly, it feels like a very theoretical & engineer-way of approaching buildings, blind to how actual humans live in them, they like to open a window, or a door to the garden, to have a connection with the outside, or let some actual fresh air in. (Mechanical ventilation with energy recovery is cool as gently caress, especially in the cold season, but it has its limits, even when installed & maintained properly.)
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Aug 10, 2023 21:52
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I worked for the university accommodation department whilst I returned to uni to achieve my pretty poster making degree. I actually just finished two huge L-shaped passivhaus dorms, they had contact switches on the windows that turned the heaters off when the windows were open. After doing 1year call back warranty items in one building, make sure you get the best trap primer you can lol. Stunk real bad there.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:52
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I have no desire to open any windows or doors. Its why I bought 8metres worth of bifold doors and related steel structure to support their aperture. Just do well thought out joined up building people.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:56
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WhatEvil posted:in other words if all of your leakage for the whole house were going through one hole, that would be the size of that hole. What size of hole is respectable for a new build? I would be disappointed if I could get a matchbox car through it. But I think I might get my actual car through it. I think its measured in like air changes per hour or something to remove the size of house factor from the scale?
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Aug 10, 2023 22:10
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you can open the doors but the house computer will broadcast an annoying 'bong bong bong' noise till you close the doors, also somewhere in a cabinet a little illuminated "door ajar" light flashes on and off
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Aug 10, 2023 22:22
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Horatius Bonar posted:I actually just finished two huge L-shaped passivhaus dorms, they had contact switches on the windows that turned the heaters off when the windows were open. well our passive haus dorms didnt have heaters because they shouldn't have been necessary.
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Aug 10, 2023 23:35
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The flashing "door ajar" light will actually be one of the can lights in the living room.
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Aug 10, 2023 23:42
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I have no desire to open any windows or doors. Its why I bought 8metres worth of bifold doors and related steel structure to support their aperture. Just do well thought out joined up building people. But how do you get out?
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Aug 10, 2023 23:45
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Dysgenesis posted:But how do you get out? Why would you want to leave?
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Aug 11, 2023 00:03
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to go pick up something you bought on ebay that you didn't notice said "local pickup only" till after you paid
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Aug 11, 2023 00:15
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Failed Imagineer posted:This is the bit I don't get about passive house philosophy. I like having windows and my back door open, a summer or autumn breeze feels really nice, you can get the scent of the jasmine and herbs growing in your garden, connect to the outdoors. Being in a hermetically-sealed box (or L) just isn't for me tbh They still have doors and windows if it's nice out (or if the Stargate is on the fritz), but you have the option of sealing everything up if it's 1 or 100 degrees out.
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Aug 11, 2023 00:40
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NotJustANumber99 posted:well our passive haus dorms didnt have heaters because they shouldn't have been necessary. Of course I agree students shouldn't be trusted with windows that open, sharp objects, or even most round objects. I'd say the contact switches in the building I worked on seemed like a great idea to deal with how people interact with their spaces - let people open their windows but then, no wasted energy on heat. I'd bet the people who designed the building I worked on learned a lesson from your experience with university dorms.
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Aug 11, 2023 01:34
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Horatius Bonar posted:Of course I agree students shouldn't be trusted with windows that open, sharp objects, or even most round objects. I'd say the contact switches in the building I worked on seemed like a great idea to deal with how people interact with their spaces - let people open their windows but then, no wasted energy on heat. I'd bet the people who designed the building I worked on learned a lesson from your experience with university dorms. You don't think the students would bypass the switches? I do...
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Aug 11, 2023 01:36
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