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I’d say the supporting text is that Sukuna literally had a 1-Up available that he would put him back at 100% and give him more hands and mouths to do sorcery poo poo with. He was stalling with Mahoraga but that was mostly curiosity than necessity. He wanted to see what the “counters everything” power could do and see if he could take away a trick or two himself for later, as a nice souvenir of the fight.
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Oct 8, 2023 21:58
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Fabricated posted:It doesn't work though, so he didn't and couldn't have won the fight early. You know, because it didn't work?? Gojo notes he is not doing other moves during that moment however. We learn a bit later that because because he's having Mahoraga adapt rather than using more powerful attacks.
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Oct 8, 2023 22:01
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None of that stuff could hit Gojo through the infinite however. He could have 10 mouths but without a trick to bypass infinite that isn't domain amplification (which requires turning your innate technique off) it doesn't work. The big problem with fighting Gojo is simply being able to hit him at all and after Malevolent Shrine collapsed he had nothing that worked outside of Mahoraga.
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Oct 8, 2023 22:07
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Oxxidation posted:it's supported by gojo saying that he would have won anyway. you're arguing yourself in circles now I've been adamant that the Gege is just wrong on this point and nothing shown so far has disproven that. Even with two mouths and 4 hands, if Sukuna didn't learn to dismantle space from Mahoraga he would get dunked on by Gojo once the domain factor has been removed. Writers can do this, have characters say stuff that ultimately isn't true no matter how much they insist. If his last move is just lightning like he attacks Kashimo with, channeled through that cursed tool. He's effectively got nothing until the story proves otherwise. Because that lightning isn't stated to imitate a "sure hit" effect like Kashimo's did which is the only believable loophole in this situation. And like Fabricated says, Sukuna copying Mahoraga is logical, but that's only because he had a template to work from he literally could not have done that on his own by his own words.
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Oct 8, 2023 22:08
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couldn't Sukuna have just done his transform no jutsu and reactivate his domain? Gojo wouldn't have been able to counter with his own anymore. like Sukuna isn't an idiot and wants to save some tricks for the other people he needs to fight. he doesn't know all their powers and curse techniques can get kinda cray plus Sukuna isn't bros with Kenjaku and knows he'll have to deal with him at some point
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Oct 8, 2023 22:15
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:couldn't Sukuna have just done his transform no jutsu and reactivate his domain? Gojo wouldn't have been able to counter with his own anymore. like Sukuna isn't an idiot and wants to save some tricks for the other people he needs to fight. he doesn't know all their powers and curse techniques can get kinda cray
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Oct 8, 2023 22:18
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Jury is still out as to whether his domain is back in action but since Hiruguma is back on the field I've been leaning towards 'Yes'. But if Gege is sitting on that as a huge reveal, using it against Gojo would have undermined this moment.
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Oct 8, 2023 22:18
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At least we can all rest easy knowing that senzu beans and the equivalent of them are garbage and ruin the flow of a conflict The 1-Up reincarnation thing sucks worse than anything else prior, as Gojo's take on Sukuna makes sense when you consider everything Gojo pulled out and still came up short with. He doesn't know about the 1-Up, he doesn't know about the bringing back the original body, but he does know he pulled out every trick he knew and then some and still lost. Without Mahoraga would Gojo have lost? Given the 1-Up poo poo, probably still he would have lost. Just too much bullshit to overcome twice. Could Sukuna have been killed before he used the item? 100%. Sukuna was nervous because one of Gojo's haymakers could have ended up legit killing him. But if you're Gojo, you do all of that, you drag yourself to "guess I gotta brain damage myself to keep going" levels of constant output, and you STILL lose? Yeah I get it, I'd say your loss felt inevitable too. It's still written poorly with the excuse of shock value, though!
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Oct 8, 2023 22:24
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Fabricated posted:None of that stuff could hit Gojo through the infinite however. He could have 10 mouths but without a trick to bypass infinite that isn't domain amplification (which requires turning your innate technique off) it doesn't work. The big problem with fighting Gojo is simply being able to hit him at all and after Malevolent Shrine collapsed he had nothing that worked outside of Mahoraga. I feel like Sukuna is going to pull out half a dozen new tricks that could've conceivably overwhelmed Gojo when paired with Domain Amplification or exploiting gaps after a Domain Expansion battle, and you're going to keep insisting it was all thanks to Mahoraga and Gege is just trying to write himself out of a corner.
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Oct 8, 2023 22:36
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Fabricated posted:Saying it is different than showing it at any time before. Nothing Sukuna did before he fought Gojo (obliterating the finger holder, mulching a bunch of civilians in Shibuya, dunking Jougo, 1v1ing Mahoraga) was something Gojo couldn't do just as easily. They are absolutely, unequivocally gassing him up here at the end. No there's not you're just actively ignoring every detail to try and make this somehow not exactly what it's always been lol
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Oct 8, 2023 22:42
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Fabricated posted:None of that stuff could hit Gojo through the infinite however. He could have 10 mouths but without a trick to bypass infinite that isn't domain amplification (which requires turning your innate technique off) it doesn't work. The big problem with fighting Gojo is simply being able to hit him at all and after Malevolent Shrine collapsed he had nothing that worked outside of Mahoraga. Those would have hit him through the Domain, which he had two chances to do.
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Oct 8, 2023 22:59
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Shinjobi posted:At least we can all rest easy knowing that senzu beans and the equivalent of them are garbage and ruin the flow of a conflict Actually bring back the original body had been stated to be a thing earlier, people were just wondering why he had not done so.
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Oct 8, 2023 23:00
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MonsterEnvy posted:Actually bring back the original body had been stated to be a thing earlier, people were just wondering why he had not done so. The fact that it is by all appearances a 100% full heal is more likely the point of contention. Sukuna could have still been missing one of his left hands and his left eye. Which might have given Kashimo more of an in during this fight and at least been a bit of tension before Sukuna reveals that he's been repairing the last hand and then gets to go all out and dunk on him. Which would be better than what we got.
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Oct 8, 2023 23:32
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It's pretty clear people are still quite upset about Gojo getting split
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Oct 8, 2023 23:33
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Sukuna pulled a Gojo on Gojo~ Like, when Gojo was last "killed" he just un-killed himself and powered up for some reason. Now that Sukuna just did the same thing, people are calling it BS
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Oct 8, 2023 23:36
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Gologle posted:Will this thread ever come to grips with Nobara being dead as hell It's the manga's fault. It had characters go "Well, she's only mostly dead" when she died, and nobody has even given her a second's mourning, and just a couple chapters back we got a scene in the actual afterlife where she's conspicuous by her absence. It's not one of those "He's just hiding!" bits where people desperately explain the 1% chance a character is just pining for the fjords like with Gojo. (Admittedly, those sometimes happen anyway in manga, but we're putting those aside for now). This is the manga going out of its way to go "Gee, Nobara might come back...", and then kind of ignoring the whole thread for years. It's more like Annie in Attack on Titan, where you have to eventually poo poo or get off the pot, rather than like Power in Chainsaw Man where you got an explicit, confirmed endpoint. And then she came back later, but that's, again, a whole different thing. As for Sakuna, we did get Gojo saying "Nah. I'd win." early on, and he was popular partially because he was a guy who always backed up his poo poo-talk. Sakuna being treated as the sure winner rather than the counterbalance is boosting him in a way the manga didn't earlier. And immediately having another fight to just go "Yep. So strong" feels weird. (As for Gojo undying, it happened in a flashback arc, which meant we knew it wouldn't stick from the start. Somewhat different context.)
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Oct 8, 2023 23:41
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Higuruma is probably going to remove one of Sukuna’s cards with his technique. We might get a Heien era flashback out of it too. Maybe we’ll see how Sukuna got that body of his since it’s been on the spotlight. Kenjaku noted that Tengan looked like Sukuna, and she’s an amalgamation of a bunch of different vessels. I would also like for Higuruma to survive.
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Oct 8, 2023 23:49
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:No there's not you're just actively ignoring every detail to try and make this somehow not exactly what it's always been lol They absolutely are. You're not even making an argument here?
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Oct 9, 2023 00:09
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Collapsing Farts posted:It's pretty clear people are still quite upset about Gojo getting split Yeah I noticed a long time ago that a lot of people seem to have memed themselves into thinking that the protagonist of JJK is gojo, not yuuji, and that seems to be a big motivator for why a lot of people are so especially mad about this you may not like the specifics of how it happened but gojo's entire arc was designed around him having to eventually fail where the actual main character succeeds, he wasn't ever going to be the coolest guy around forever
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Oct 9, 2023 00:33
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He's not gone, yknow 
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Oct 9, 2023 00:41
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I was fully expecting Gojo to die because he basically had to. I wasn't expecting it to be so lame.
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Oct 9, 2023 00:42
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Yeah I noticed a long time ago that a lot of people seem to have memed themselves into thinking that the protagonist of JJK is gojo, not yuuji, and that seems to be a big motivator for why a lot of people are so especially mad about this I think some of the annoyance there comes from the fact that Getting Gojo Back was a major part of the entire Culling Game arc which people were already kind of turned off on, so having him revived and then dying near-instantly kind of is a sour point. I honestly don't have a problem with his death (and kind of thought it was inevitable) but I do think the exact point it happened felt a bit weird and rushed. Edit: And as I mentioned before I think it suffers from the fact that aside from Yuuji everyone we started the series with is dead/effectively dead so people are probably a bit more negative about Gojo's death because it means we're down to Yuuji and a bunch of basically nobodies (and the prequel squad who I know some people consider nobodies but I like.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 00:52
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Sukuna must have 2 wieners and 4 balls
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Oct 9, 2023 00:53
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Gojo's death if he is dead was a cool swerve and a good finish to one of the best fights in the series. It could've been executed a bit better but it is a really cool idea. It's perfectly fine that Gojo thinks he might not have been able to beat Sukuna even without Ten Shadows because Sukuna didn't have to try using his other stuff in the bag. He had a game plan from the start using Mahoraga and managed to win with that game plan. Personally I think it's likely Gojo would've been slightly favored to win if Ten Shadows wasn't on the table, but it makes complete sense that he's not convinced when Sukuna didn't show off everything he had in stock against him., RevolverDivider fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 00:57
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I don't really get the take that sukuna's being gassed up now when he was always presented as the strongest thing to ever live basically. but I do agree that the fight itself is not presented in a way that makes gojo's post-mortem comments feel realistic. we haven't seen much of sukuna's true form yet but as is, it just feels like he'd have won by stalling gojo out with the 1-up. there's no reason to believe sukuna's other moves would get through limitless without mahoraga's adaption. that feels like it was pretty explicitly intended for dealing with gojo really I think it's just a problem with how the fight ended. it was abrupt, it was anticlimactic, and the 1-up leaves it feeling kinda hollow. unless losing mahoraga is actually important to defeating sukuna somehow, it feels like the only reason it happened was to kill gojo off so he was out of the way
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Oct 9, 2023 05:31
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yum posted:I would also like for Higuruma to survive. He's gonna die, alas, which is a pity because he's the most interesting character Gege introduced in a long time. But we've literally already seen a way for Sukuna to bypass his domain (breaking it from outside now that he's gotten back his mojo, thanks to his own insanely strong domain) and even if he doesn't get to use it because Gojo's debuff miraculously sticks and he somehow hasn't devised a way to talk himself out of cursed technique suppression + execution, he has just gotten a cursed tool that he can use to chomp people from afar that Higuruma has no defense from.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:46
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Manatee Cannon posted:I don't really get the take that sukuna's being gassed up now when he was always presented as the strongest thing to ever live basically. but I do agree that the fight itself is not presented in a way that makes gojo's post-mortem comments feel realistic. we haven't seen much of sukuna's true form yet but as is, it just feels like he'd have won by stalling gojo out with the 1-up. there's no reason to believe sukuna's other moves would get through limitless without mahoraga's adaption. that feels like it was pretty explicitly intended for dealing with gojo I’m not sure how to articulate this exactly, but I suspect on some level all of these problems stick out more because Jujutsu Kaisen has been kinda uninterested in its own protagonist for too long. Gojo probably needed to die at some point, but has the comic really done the necessary legwork for the idea of his students and particularly Yuji being able to surpass him to feel plausible? Eh…
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Oct 9, 2023 08:37
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Captain Oblivious posted:I’m not sure how to articulate this exactly, but I suspect on some level all of these problems stick out more because Jujutsu Kaisen has been kinda uninterested in its own protagonist for too long. I mean, you look at the post-Shibuya arcs, you went into the Culling Game which was a massive and confusing pile of rules that mostly didn't matter in the end, and you got the better part of a year without Yuji appearing at all, and not doing much of note even when he did show. Meanwhile, Gojo's return was hyped to the heavens, and the fight went on for months. It wouldn't be that hard to build Yuji up some in that time, but instead, we've gone in a ton of directions, none of them putting him in the spotlight again. It's weird.
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Oct 9, 2023 09:50
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Captain Oblivious posted:I’m not sure how to articulate this exactly, but I suspect on some level all of these problems stick out more because Jujutsu Kaisen has been kinda uninterested in its own protagonist for too long. I don't really mind the protagonist disappearing for long stretches, goku's still flying to namek for like 2/3 of dbz, but yea we are currently not at a point where yuji or anyone looks able to stand up to sukuna. tho I don't think that's intended at this point. it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people die but sukuna leaves yuji alive because it's funny to him it's just that the gojo/sukuna fight feels like a little narrative cul de sac. it's not like it was ENTIRELY pointless (sukuna no longer has mahoraga or his 1-up), but we didn't know he could do one of those things and he didn't need the other to dunk on the rest of the cast. which is why it feels like gojo only came back so the author could kill him. I really think the fact that the arc feels unsatisfying is because of gojo, not sukuna e: actually the fight might have accomplished one more thing: megumi's gotta be giga dead now right? like sukuna's fully incarnated in his body, surely there's no coming back from this. maybe that scene where geto stops kenny for a bit was foreshadowing for megumi to do the same to sukuna, but that kid's gotta be toast Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 10:29
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I don't actually understand the "endgame" of the manga yet. Like yeah, it seems we're doing the final fights against Sukuna now with all his tricks being revealed, but we still have a 2nd supervillain mastermind out there, too. I have no idea how all this is going to come together yet
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Oct 9, 2023 10:32
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I do kinda wish Yuji had been a bit more present but who knows what he'll be able to do after eating the rest of the Death Paintings or whatever the hell it is he did. I guess he might be able to gently caress Sukuna up because he innately has the ability to directly damage the soul? Maybe he''ll literally punch Sukuna out of Megumi?
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Oct 9, 2023 11:33
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Fabricated posted:I do kinda wish Yuji had been a bit more present but who knows what he'll be able to do after eating the rest of the Death Paintings or whatever the hell it is he did. I guess he might be able to gently caress Sukuna up because he innately has the ability to directly damage the soul? He'll make Sakuna remember how they were best friends in juvie, so Sakuna will take the full force of Higuruma's sentencing to pay Yuji back for when they were younger. His last line in the manga will be "8,600 years. But with good behavior, who knows?"
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Oct 9, 2023 11:40
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Manatee Cannon posted:e: actually the fight might have accomplished one more thing: megumi's gotta be giga dead now right? like sukuna's fully incarnated in his body, surely there's no coming back from this. maybe that scene where geto stops kenny for a bit was foreshadowing for megumi to do the same to sukuna, but that kid's gotta be toast I feel like that's not a given yet, but who knows, Gege is pretty trigger-happy when it comes to character deaths and honestly, why it has worked very well in the past, I'm starting to feel like that's how he cops out when he doesn't know how to write a character past a certain point. I can only think of a vanishingly small amounts of actual character arcs in JJK, and even less that didn't just end in death. It's still wild to me that Choso survived.
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Oct 9, 2023 12:19
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Gojo's story is ultimately one of failure. We're repeatedly told he's insanely powerful, and shown it. But we're also repeatedly shown that, when the time comes, he doesn't use that power correctly and he doesn't accomplish his goals. Hidden Inventory is his foundational moment, where he fails to protect Riko and, after, sets the stage for repeating this kind of failure by questioning what he's been told all his life, that he's some kind of sorcerer god. His sentimentality also allows Kenjaku to steal Geto's body, leading to all the other events in the manga. Shibuya is also his failure. After striding into the place like he's all-powerful -- and sure, exercising some of that power -- he ultimately fails to save people, fails to take out any of the major villains except Hanami, and gets sealed away. He's self-confident even then, putting his faith in... Yuta, mostly, which still hasn't come to fruition. Then here, when he's unsealed, he fails to do anything in the immediate confrontation, and fails to defeat Sukuna now. It was inevitable narratively, but ultimately unsatisfying for reasons others have mentioned. Even his decision to allow Yuji to live and keep Sukuna locked away, being a present danger, is arguably a failure. We'll see how this ends up playing out, but Gojo's whole arc is really just about him making bad decisions, failing to use his influence, and offloading the burden on others who he really doesn't properly support, train, or assist.
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Oct 9, 2023 12:37
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Fabricated posted:I do kinda wish Yuji had been a bit more present but who knows what he'll be able to do after eating the rest of the Death Paintings or whatever the hell it is he did. I guess he might be able to gently caress Sukuna up because he innately has the ability to directly damage the soul? There's a bit where after taking the bath to sink Megumis soul, that Sukuna notices a crack in his finger ( chapter 216 for y'all) that the panels really linger on. I suspect something to do with his soul not fully taking to Megumi's body will be a way to win and Sukuna will be exposed to it more because he chose to fully incarnate, which is why he didn't want to do it before
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Oct 9, 2023 12:38
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chiasaur11 posted:He'll make Sakuna remember how they were best friends in juvie, so Sakuna will take the full force of Higuruma's sentencing to pay Yuji back for when they were younger. Sukuna's whole thing about knowing love but not caring about it being foreshadowing to his defeat by being force-fed completely fake love would be hilarious.
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Oct 9, 2023 12:39
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ImpAtom posted:I think some of the annoyance there comes from the fact that Getting Gojo Back was a major part of the entire Culling Game arc which people were already kind of turned off on, so having him revived and then dying near-instantly kind of is a sour point. this is maki erasure, we got neo-toji and everyone is still hating smdh Nighthand posted:Gojo's story is ultimately one of failure. and this is why gojo rules ThatBasqueGuy fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 16:57
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So much emphasis is made ITT and other spaces on Yuji being the protagonist and how it's a flaw that the manga neglects him, and I'm sitting here scratching my head because JJK is clearly an ensemble cast story.
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Oct 9, 2023 16:58
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:this is maki erasure, we got neo-toji and everyone is still hating smdh Maki is part of the prequel squad! Conspiratiorist posted:So much emphasis is made ITT and other spaces on Yuji being the protagonist and how it's a flaw that the manga neglects him, and I'm sitting here scratching my head because JJK is clearly an ensemble cast story. It's hard to have an ensemble cast story when the vast majority of your ensemble cast either vanishes from the plot or is dead. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 17:03
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Conspiratiorist posted:So much emphasis is made ITT and other spaces on Yuji being the protagonist and how it's a flaw that the manga neglects him, and I'm sitting here scratching my head because JJK is clearly an ensemble cast story. eh most shonen battle manga is loosely an ensemble cast story. You inevitably end up with scores of side characters who get shoehorned in. Yuji is clearly the protagonist of JJK though. The story has him at its core, hes featured in a majority of the chapters, we learn the most about him.
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