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Gologle posted:How would Sukuna, the greatest and best sorcerer to have ever existed, not have reached the pinnacle of the Ten Shadows' technique? He probably cheated by cleaving and fire bombing Mahoraga to complete the ritual instead of having the bull run on a treadmill for weeks before releasing it.
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Jan 3, 2024 04:37
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Gologle posted:How would Sukuna, the greatest and best sorcerer to have ever existed, not have reached the pinnacle of the Ten Shadows' technique? He had to use it in conjunction with his cutting techniques to take out Gojo. Gojo claims Sukuna would have beat him without 10 shadows, but I don’t think the opposite is true. At least not what we saw. We also never see him use a 10 shadows based domain expansion like Megumi has.That may still be something Sukuna either wasn’t able to do (something like “his innate domain and thus domain expansion is tied to his soul not his body” so he’s stuck with just Malevolent Shrine) or didn’t need to do because he had other powers to use, including the flames we haven’t seen again, and thus didn’t fully plumb the depths of 10 shadows.
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Jan 3, 2024 04:54
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stuker posted:i've got my complaints on how that fight ended for sure, but this part never really bothered me much? gojo was characterized as pretty cocky, and infinity has blocked the attack. he probably should have paid more attention to whatever happened with the one mahoraga slash that hit him, but he didn't and now he's dead I don't think that Gojo wouldn't mulch Sukuna for even trying a counterattack unless keeping Megumi alive was that important. Given Gojo tried to definitely kill Sukuna with two hollow purples at different occasions, that's unlikely. I can agree that Gojo can be cocky but so is Sukuna so after all the crap he just took, why is anyone assuming that Gojo assumed that he could comfortably just let Sukuna do anything unexpected? A full chant Hollow Purple actually destroyed both of Sukuna's limbs and later completely destroyed Maharoga. Letting Sukuna chant when he's never done so prior to that last moment just seems like inviting an unforseen consequence. I can at least give Gojo that much intelligence and given the state of his body it's clear he just didn't react at all, potentially implying he got hit by an unchanted but enhanced Dismantle. All this is still simply a problem with not showing the last moment and leaving it up to the reader to fill in that blank. And there are still questions like whether Gojo can also see the inception of a cursed technique and whether he could have seen a difference in what Sukuna was doing. It's not like Gojo can see Dismantle like Mahoraga could back in Shibuya, but he could have at least braced for something unknown and that be reflected in his body.
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Jan 3, 2024 05:06
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Brought To You By posted:I'm not going to pretend to know what JJK is supposed to be about but there's a very good argument that Gege has allowed the story to get away from them as things progressed and that's one of the causes for the current writing problems. I also think you are way to forgiving of stuff if you think Sukuna winning the way he did wasn't just poorly executed. It basically amounts to the reader having to accept that "Sukuna has to win or the plot is resolved" and make assumptions about why Gojo never reacted to an attack that subsequently has been shown to be accompanied by finger pointing and possibly a chant. If the story wanted to put presentation over logic that's fine but it's a bad call in a fight that revolved around minutia and massive flexing of techniques and skill. And a bad fit for a story where that kind of outcome isn't typical and I can't think of a previous fight that just ended with such a huge question mark. No, I'm never going to let it go I mean dude you’ve taken issue with the fact that Nanami ‘s weapon was imbued with his technique, in a series all about people leaving parts of themselves behind due to regrets and bad feelings. Amongst other complaints where it’s all works with the information we are given very consistently about the characters and nature of the powers on display. Gojo didn’t know Sukuna could penetrate infinity and getting caught off guard with the world slash is again something entirely plausible and within the nature of Gojo( his arrogance and cockiness), that he thought whatever was coming infinity would just tank. I don’t know what your read on the story is, but the reason I and others aren’t having an issue with it, is because it’s consistent with the things that have been presented about the character themselves and the rules in universe.
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Jan 3, 2024 05:06
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Asuron posted:I mean dude you’ve taken issue with the fact that Nanami ‘s weapon was imbued with his technique, in a series all about people leaving parts of themselves behind due to regrets and bad feelings. Amongst other complaints where it’s all works with the information we are given very consistently about the characters and nature of the powers on display. That one dude obsessed with turning people into coat racks? It's not to say he wants to make a human into a magical tool, but I've always read it as he's a killer that likes to use bodies as his medium for mundane object. Like using a skull for a cup or a spine as a back scratcher. I think some people reading into it that he makes cursed objects because he's the only other known creator of cursed tools along with the hand-sword he made. I get them but I'm not convinced. quote:Gojo didn’t know Sukuna could penetrate infinity and getting caught off guard with the world slash is again something entirely plausible and within the nature of Gojo( his arrogance and cockiness), that he thought whatever was coming infinity would just tank.
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Jan 3, 2024 05:17
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Nuebot posted:Also like, broadly speaking; being in the same arc (and in some cases literally the same fight) for over a year can just burn people the gently caress out on a story. A lot of that stuff reads a lot better when you read it through without the week by week update but boy howdy does several straight months of "And then this character attacked and did nothing, and then this character attacked and did nothing, and then this character attacked and died." really just kind of suck sometimes. Even in the one piece thread there were a few people getting tired of Wano by the end, and especially during the dressarosa arc there were people absolutely ready for that to end. This is kinda where I'm at, even though I only caught up a couple of weeks ago. It's just a little boring to see Sukuna deal with everything and the more he does, the more impressive his final moments will have to be. Asuron posted:Gojo didn’t know Sukuna could penetrate infinity and getting caught off guard with the world slash is again something entirely plausible and within the nature of Gojo( his arrogance and cockiness), that he thought whatever was coming infinity would just tank. This doesn't really make sense as Gojo's arm is cut off by the same attack about two chapters prior to his death. Gojo is cocky, as is apparent by the look on his face when he realizes the attack hits and cuts of his arm, but not so cocky he would ignore that threat entirely after having his arm cut off. E: He may not have thought that Sukuna could learn the technique just by seeing it though. But imo that's a rather lame way to lose a fight. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 06:02
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i agree it's a very embarrassing way to lose the fight i think gojo's initial airport reaction suggests he feels the same, even if he thinks sukuna would have won regardless stuker fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 06:27
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It would have been better if he and takaba had switched places
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Jan 3, 2024 06:36
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stuker posted:i think gojo's initial airport reaction suggests he feels the same, even if he thinks sukuna would have won regardless The way it all went down, I understand the spirit of him saying so even if I disagree. lmao I completely forgot it went down the way it did and then Sukuna got a 100% heal at the end of it. that probably made the pill a little more bitter to swallow
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Jan 3, 2024 06:39
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stuker posted:i've got my complaints on how that fight ended for sure, but this part never really bothered me much? gojo was characterized as pretty cocky, and infinity has blocked the attack. he probably should have paid more attention to whatever happened with the one mahoraga slash that hit him, but he didn't and now he's dead It already succeeded in cutting his arm off before the fatal one, though, right? The only way I can understand that is that it simply caught him off-guard. Sukuna just did it at a time when he wasn't able to avoid it in time.
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Jan 3, 2024 06:53
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rkd_ posted:This is kinda where I'm at, even though I only caught up a couple of weeks ago. It's just a little boring to see Sukuna deal with everything and the more he does, the more impressive his final moments will have to be. I treat it as with Mahoraga being the one to cut him, not Sukuna , he thought the only way through is amplificatin. I think it’s fine he got cut, not thinking Sukuna could learn it that fast. Even Sukuna comments on this and how difficult it was. Brought To You By posted:I also pointed out in that discussion that Cursed objects are not the same as cursed tools. Cursed objects retain a vestige of the original body whether it's the eyes on Prison realm and the Back door, or literal body parts like the Death womb paintings and Sukuna's fingers. Cursed Tools are just regular objects made by other people and their construction is still unknown outside the two (with Higuruma maybe making it three) characters who have literal object conjuration as their base ability. And for the first two they just made replicas of things that already existed so they didn't create a tool with their own technique as the function. Other than that all we know is that someone will imbue cursed energy into a tool until it gains a property even if it's as basis as the three-section staff cursed tool. I don't think it's unreasonable to question why Nanami's technique persisted especially when so far, it's accomplished nothing and likely won't until Sukuna is severely depleted of cursed energy. That’s kinda the crux of my whole point We don’t know how they are made. We know that cursed techniques are based on feelings of negativity and that cursed weapons are imbued with these same feelings. There’s no reason to question it. You don’t know how they’re made, it doesn’t go against anything in the story because we’re not told and we also know Nanami did die with regret, he just used his final words to not let it become a curse for someone else.
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Jan 3, 2024 07:45
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Asuron posted:We don’t know how they are made. We know that cursed techniques are based on feelings of negativity and that cursed weapons are imbued with these same feelings. If we don't know how they are made. Why not question it when they replicate an ability of a person that actually lived instead of seemingly being made by a creator to have a completely unique ability? This is why I talked about not liking the writer asking us to fill in blanks when there is no information. The same character that made a hand sword also made a sword with rockets on the backblade. You think he had a technique for telekinesis control of tools but also had an ability that stored cursed energy to release it explosively? Because the sword Maki initially brought to the Zennin family was also one of his creations. Again, I can understand that Nanami's bond with his cursed tool could create this situation, but the mechanics are singular in circumstance and never seen prior to this making the one time it does happen seem random. If this were Hunter x Hunter where post moterm nen was was more established and there were better examples of current abilities persisting after their user I'd buy it. But JJK has never had this happen outside of Mai and then Bug Lady and as I've continually stated, they used construction cursed technique which is already understood and then re-created old tools that already existed. Not create a gun that create bullets like Mai used or a shapeshifting metal tool like Bug lady did. If you want to be that generous and just accept your logic that's fine. I'm not going to.
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Jan 3, 2024 08:14
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Asuron posted:I treat it as with Mahoraga being the one to cut him, not Sukuna , he thought the only way through is amplificatin. Yeah, it can make sense in the universe, it's just a lame way for a character like Gojo to go out.
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Jan 3, 2024 08:22
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Ytlaya posted:It already succeeded in cutting his arm off before the fatal one, though, right? right that's what i was referring to w/ the one mahoraga slash like yum mentioned, we've already seen everyone post-gojo have at least limited success at dodging it
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Jan 3, 2024 08:45
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Gojo is coming back anyways so who cares
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Jan 3, 2024 16:59
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Gojo is coming back anyways so who cares I kind of doubt it to be honest. The series is going to be over in ~40 chapters maximum (most likely less), there's not really a lot of room for him to come back. Maybe briefly as a ghost or something but it seems unlikely he'll be back-back because we're just at the end of the series and there's no time for any of that. It's why any hope Nobara's return is probably futile at this point because this is the final battle.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:32
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gojo is super dead but nobara is absolutely alive even if she doesn't show up before the series ends.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:39
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The Notorious ZSB posted:It feels safe to me to say that the biggest issue with JJK post shibuya is that Gege removed from the story characters readers were attached to and filled them with a lot of characters no one really has any attachment to. This is almost under-selling it; he cratered almost everything. All of the politics, the sorcerer families, really even the concept of fighting geographically located curses as a duty to society that characterized the original manga intentions. Jujutsu High? Gone. Kyoto and all of the students who were clearly supposed to grow alongside Yuji? Gone. Principal Yaga? Done real dirty. Hell, Gege even detonated sense of place entirely. Where the gently caress even are they right now? He didn't want to draw environments anymore so we're just [around buildings I guess] and Sukuna keeps blowing poo poo up but it's extremely unclear how or what the environment even is. You can kinda pull that off in a manga but I'm genuinely curious how it will go in the anime because so much that happens after a certain point is just in "don't want to draw it anymore-Land" and therefore relies entirely on manga's ability to, honestly, kind of confuse the reader spatially over long periods because you can just kind of not draw the environment if you really don't feel like it. Overall that has been a major question in my mind, because the narrative quickly devolves in the Culling Games, many plot points are introduced and then abandoned, and the flow suffers massively as a result. It's mostly acceptable due to the particular strengths and weaknesses of manga panels, but a lot of what didn't work post Shibuya feels, to me, like it would be massively worse in the context of seasons of anime. Like, think the army subplot sucked in the manga? It will be twice as weird in the anime imo. You can't hide behind paneling and weekly serialization in the same way. Yuji stops being the main character and there just kind of... isn't one anymore? And everyone you cared about is dead, offscreen, or receiving scattered attention while you just kind of see tons of new people fighting for Reasons? weird stuff. However something I thought was interesting was how the ending of Season 2 didn't really set up the meat of the Culling Games at all. And I wonder if that's because they are thinking about going partially anime-only. We'll see  e: remember when there was a 3 way domain expansion between Yuta, the Sky Lady and the Bug Dude, then Gege decided he didn't want to draw Yutas (extremely long anticipated) domain and ALSO didn't want to draw anyone elses domains either so one of the most hype moments in the entire manga- both the reveal of Yuta's domain and the first and only 3 way domain expansion- is done entirely offscreen? (oh wait I see a pattern here!!! Gojo dying anyone? lol) poo poo like this sucked in the manga but is going to be extra weird in the anime. Taima fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 18:54
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TheHan posted:gojo is super dead but nobara is absolutely alive even if she doesn't show up before the series ends. Nobara will show up again in final panel groupshot with zero explanation.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:15
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Taima posted:Hell, Gege even detonated sense of place entirely. Where the gently caress even are they right now? He didn't want to draw environments anymore so we're just [around buildings I guess] and Sukuna keeps blowing poo poo up but it's extremely unclear how or what the environment even is. I'm pretty sure every time there's buildings they're straight from reference pictures from that ward in Toyko.
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Jan 3, 2024 19:33
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Taima posted:This is almost under-selling it; he cratered almost everything. All of the politics, the sorcerer families, really even the concept of fighting geographically located curses as a duty to society that characterized the original manga intentions. Jujutsu High? Gone. Kyoto and all of the students who were clearly supposed to grow alongside Yuji? Gone. Principal Yaga? Done real dirty. looking at jjk 0, i'm pretty sure that's the JJK that Gege wants. All of that other stuff was editor-mandated afaik. Principal Yaga went out like a man.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:10
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UnderFreddy posted:looking at jjk 0, i'm pretty sure that's the JJK that Gege wants. All of that other stuff was editor-mandated afaik. I liked the puppet storyline a lot actually. But getting off-screened by the old dude who uses a guitar as a weapon was not it chief (imo) Conspiratiorist posted:I'm pretty sure every time there's buildings they're straight from reference pictures from that ward in Toyko. Hah! Sharp eye!
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Jan 3, 2024 20:25
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Not everything needs a callback but there's like, a whole place with all these weird soul puppets that Yaga made now that I recall? What the gently caress is up with that, whatever happened to it
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Jan 3, 2024 20:45
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I wouldn't say spatiality has been completely removed, its not quite Bleach era formless void or DBZ era endless desert wastes. There have been interesting locations (the shipping container space, the apartments & gymnasium, the ferris wheel), but I do think that you're correct in that the overall sense of place has been downgraded significantly. Shibuya was turbo focused on specific landmarks in Shibuya, culminating in the final battle being in the cross walk. Lots of early strategy was around which subway lines to take, or dashing through specific buildings & stores. Things definitely have blurred the more we have reached the end here. Geto got fought in a forest near Lake Gosho though the background of the fight changes quite often due to Takaba's CT and Sukuna vs All has now been fought in essentially a city wastescape without anything outwardly identifiable. Its just ruined buildings and debris. I think the key is that the significance of any individual battlefield is now unimportant and has been for the entire culling game. We're not in Itadori's haunted school, or whatever cursed location, or Shibuya. We're just in The Battle Zone™ with whatever they want as window dressing to the current fight. And there is no particular reason to be there. Edit: I went and re-read some of the fights to check out the background paneling and omg I swear the gojo killing is sooooooo bad on re-read. The last panel of the previous chapter is "Gojo won!" with Sukuna having been absolutely destroyed by hollow purple, hes missing limbs and poo poo and can't use RCT. Going from THAT to "actually I could use an ultimate attack and kill you" is just incredibly unsatisfying. The smash cut almost needs to happen because I don't think theres a way to go from that chapter to Gojo dying in any way that makes sense. Gojo hit a black flash and was operating at 100% capacity he just fully healed his missing arm and chanted out an ultimate attack over the course of an entire chapter and Sukuna was trashed. Man, I don't care that Gojo died because he's one of the OP dweebs but I really do dislike the choice of how to do it!! Jerkface fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 20:55
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While many of the issues I have with JJK currently involve more overarching narrative stuff, I do think that it being animated will help carry the anime to still being popular and good. A lot of the culling game stuff will be hype, especially Hakari’s fight. I also think Gojo v Sukuna will come across much better when animated, I imagine the hard cut to Gojo being in two pieces will work way better. Don’t get me wrong there will still be issues, but I think they’ll be a bit easier to ignore when there’s so much cool action being animated.
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Jan 3, 2024 21:13
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PringleCreamEgg posted:I imagine the hard cut to Gojo being in two pieces will work way better. If they don't have Gojo Won as the outtro to the commercial break eye catch and then the intro back in after the second eyecatch is the airport they're cowards
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Jan 3, 2024 21:37
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Better still, do the Katanagatari: animate several seconds of crazy fighting in the episode preview, and then open at the airport instead.
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Jan 3, 2024 21:50
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i think geto sucks just kinda occurred to me
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Jan 3, 2024 22:04
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As a character, as an antagonist, as a person? Open up to us
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Jan 3, 2024 22:27
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You must be pretty happy he was Kenjaku the whole time.
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Jan 3, 2024 22:27
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Yeah honestly mad scientist mother of yuji is way more interesting than "sorcerer racist"
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Jan 3, 2024 23:14
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geto and jogo had the same ideology but you don’t see anyone pining for jogo on twitter despite jogo being hotter.
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Jan 3, 2024 23:18
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Fabricated posted:Not everything needs a callback but there's like, a whole place with all these weird soul puppets that Yaga made now that I recall? What the gently caress is up with that, whatever happened to it It should still be existing. That chapter was Yaga saying good bye to them because they didn't need him and he was going off to die.
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Jan 3, 2024 23:21
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Taima posted:I liked the puppet storyline a lot actually. But getting off-screened by the old dude who uses a guitar as a weapon was not it chief (imo)
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Jan 4, 2024 00:04
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Taima posted:This is almost under-selling it; he cratered almost everything. All of the politics, the sorcerer families, really even the concept of fighting geographically located curses as a duty to society that characterized the original manga intentions. Jujutsu High? Gone. Kyoto and all of the students who were clearly supposed to grow alongside Yuji? Gone. Principal Yaga? Done real dirty. I had totally forgotten that curses were connected to local events/feelings. It would be cool if that was still the case in the same vein as something like Chainsaw Man's devils.
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Jan 4, 2024 00:21
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yum posted:geto and jogo had the same ideology but you don’t see anyone pining for jogo on twitter despite jogo being hotter. someone hasn't seen the HIMgo glowup pictures
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Jan 4, 2024 04:26
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TheHan posted:gojo is super dead but nobara is absolutely alive even if she doesn't show up before the series ends. Nobara is alive...but she gives her life to resurrect Gojo
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Jan 4, 2024 07:40
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Ytlaya posted:Nobara is alive...but she gives her life to resurrect Gojo Wtf is this poo poo? She will give her life to motivate a man to resurrect Gojo.
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Jan 4, 2024 08:04
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Jerkface posted:Edit: I went and re-read some of the fights to check out the background paneling and omg I swear the gojo killing is sooooooo bad on re-read. The last panel of the previous chapter is "Gojo won!" with Sukuna having been absolutely destroyed by hollow purple, hes missing limbs and poo poo and can't use RCT. Going from THAT to "actually I could use an ultimate attack and kill you" is just incredibly unsatisfying. The smash cut almost needs to happen because I don't think theres a way to go from that chapter to Gojo dying in any way that makes sense. Gojo hit a black flash and was operating at 100% capacity he just fully healed his missing arm and chanted out an ultimate attack over the course of an entire chapter and Sukuna was trashed. Man, I don't care that Gojo died because he's one of the OP dweebs but I really do dislike the choice of how to do it!! Yeah, Gege pretty clearly wrote himself into a corner where narratively Gojo had to lose but had pretty clearly and decisively won the fight, so offscreen cleave through reality it is.
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Jan 4, 2024 08:05
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Both halves of Gojo should regenerate into two smaller gojos
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Jan 4, 2024 13:52
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