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https://x.com/RadishHarmers/status/1764816306166026469?s=20
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 00:32 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:44 |
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https://twitter.com/eurogamer/status/1764966484273402110?t=n9aFvCbs38LWqwCY2xaxbA&s=19
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 00:33 |
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Yeah, I was remembering right, in the novel the great houses don't declare war because they simply can't as long as Paul has a monopoly on spice:quote:The Emperor's entourage could be heard approaching now, his Sardaukar humming one of their marching tunes to keep up their spirits. There came a murmur of voices at the entrance and Gurney Halleck passed through the guard, crossed to confer with Stilgar, then moved to Paul's side, a strange look in his eyes. And later: quote:"There's a massed armada of the Great Houses in space over Arrakis right now," the Emperor said. "I've but to say the word and they'll - " As for the reasons for the jihad, it's barely touched on in Dune 1, but there's (A) revenge: quote:"She's a princess," Paul said. "She's my key to the throne, and that's all she'll ever be. Mistake? You think because I'm what you made me that I cannot feel the need for revenge?" ...and (B) it's implied that his fremen army, like many other historical armies, would demand some kind of spoils — land, titles, etc. — and the only way to satisfy them is with more conquest: quote:"He is to be stripped. I'll want an earldom and CHOAM directorship for Gurney Halleck, and him in the fief of Caladan. There will be titles and attendant power for every surviving Atreides man, not excepting the lowliest trooper." It doesn't really make sense in the film because they're represented as religious fanatics totally under Paul's thumb, instead of an army whose continuing loyalty depends on Paul fulfilling his promises to them. Cassian of Imola fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Mar 6, 2024 |
# ? Mar 6, 2024 00:38 |
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AnEdgelord posted:https://twitter.com/eurogamer/status/1764966484273402110?t=n9aFvCbs38LWqwCY2xaxbA&s=19 quote:But religion as a concept, and seemingly a major theme, is still present: Dune: Awakening will zero in on the Butlerian jihad - the historical war of the Dune universe, between humans and artificial intelligence, "topical," as Bylos notes - for instance. hope everyone is ready to fight terminators
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 00:39 |
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The absolute lack of water discipline made me scream inside my head.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 00:39 |
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Cimber posted:Mind you, i haven't read the other books, but how exactly is that going to work? The Fremen are great warriors on Arrakis, yeah, but once they are off their native soil how well are things going to go for them? They don't have the home dune advantage after all. Unexplained timeskip. Seriously.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 00:50 |
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Villeneuve learned from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and gave Chani a blue bandana so you could tell her from the other fremen
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 00:50 |
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Steve Yun posted:Villeneuve learned from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and gave Chani a blue bandana so you could tell her from the other fremen She should have painted her face in blue woad, that worked well for Mel.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 00:54 |
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Ironically, after re-reading the end of Dune, I find the representation of the Fremen as a body a lot more orientalist in the film than in the book. Yes, they are religious in the book, but they aren't blindly loyal. They expect Paul to deliver things for them; they expect the jihad to enrich them (just like in real life holy wars, no matter what religion!). In the Villeneuve film, on the other hand, to the extent that their loyalty to Paul is explained at all, they're maniacs and dupes. Their fanaticism is a repeated point of comic relief. Does the fact that the Fremen look like Arab Muslims make it easier for audiences to swallow their religious extremism, their motiveless bloodlust? Of course it does. They're [Fremen], what do you expect!
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:01 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:one more crit on the nitpicky side: just loving say 'jihad' you guys
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:08 |
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In book 2 it's made explicit that the fremen are just too dang superstitious for their own good and go genocide everyone and paul can't stop them. Paul later becomes jesus. It's all pretty stupid and only gets stupider with every book.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:13 |
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Good point. I hadn't even thought of that, but yeah, it is completely consistent to both (A) make audience prejudice against Arabs a linchpin of your storytelling and (B) censor Arab words to avoid offending that same audience
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:13 |
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you know, I hate to say it, but the casting was really weak outside of the Harkonnens.. Timothee, Walken and Zendaya 👎 fun movie but the emotional core was really weak.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:20 |
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Dune lore question (only read the first book): Are the fremen just great fighters purely because of the harsh conditions of arrakis/colonial rule, or (as I thought when I read it) are they borderline prescient due to spice exposure and so can "read" opponents in hand to hand combat? Does this ever get discussed?
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:20 |
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The nuke scene felt like the biggest moving thing I’d ever seen in my life
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:22 |
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cohsae posted:Dune lore question (only read the first book): Just because of the harsh conditions of Arrakis/constant state of war for generations.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:28 |
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cohsae posted:Dune lore question (only read the first book): Its cuz they do that flippy thing
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:40 |
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Hey if you nuke a bunch of mountains doesn’t that still mean there’s a ton of rock underground? How are worms supposed to cross that Wouldn’t the ground be super hot I think this movie might be a tad unrealistic
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:41 |
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Famethrowa posted:you know, I hate to say it, but the casting was really weak outside of the Harkonnens.. Timothee, Walken and Zendaya 👎 Nothing against her, but Zendaya in particular was a bad choice. Should have been an Arabic/Middle Eastern actress. It was hilarious how they tried to play off her American accent by saying she was a "Northern" Fremen.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:42 |
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Steve Yun posted:Hey if you nuke a bunch of mountains doesn’t that still mean there’s a ton of rock underground? How are worms supposed to cross that if you watch the 80s movie it's like 350 degrees Kelvin above the surface already lol I don't remember if that's directly from the books but it's already hot af homie
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:45 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:Ironically, after re-reading the end of Dune, I find the representation of the Fremen as a body a lot more orientalist in the film than in the book. Yes, they are religious in the book, but they aren't blindly loyal. They expect Paul to deliver things for them; they expect the jihad to enrich them (just like in real life holy wars, no matter what religion!).
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:47 |
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Steve Yun posted:Hey if you nuke a bunch of mountains doesn’t that still mean there’s a ton of rock underground? How are worms supposed to cross that The guy controlling the worm did a sick kickflip over it
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 01:54 |
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banned from Starbucks posted:The guy controlling the worm did a sick kickflip over it free willy but worm
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 02:00 |
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Illmade posted:Nothing against her, but Zendaya in particular was a bad choice. Should have been an Arabic/Middle Eastern actress. It was hilarious how they tried to play off her American accent by saying she was a "Northern" Fremen. she was super wooden overall. that's a tough challenge given the source so I don't really blame her but drat did they need an unknown weirdo who would really juice those goofball lines.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 02:27 |
the Timmy and Zen star power gets the zoomers in the seats.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 02:31 |
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Villeneuve movies never have great casting. Gosling in BR2049 was uninspired — simply an echo of his Drive persona. Renner and Adams were decent in Arrival but come on, could you pick two more milquetoast actors? Here, Walken is one of the worst casting decisions in a blockbuster I’ve seen in a while. That said I think Pugh is gonna be incredible in the sequel, where her role will presumably be larger.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 02:41 |
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mfs keep blaming 'the source material' for poo poo that isn't even in the book
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 02:50 |
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Vegetable posted:
Yeah I groaned when I heard his casting and that turned out to be the right instinct. Pugh however is amazing in everything
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 02:55 |
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Was the casting so bad? Maybe Chani would have been better off as an Arab girl (any Arabs in the cast would have been an improvement) but I thought Zendaya did a pretty good job What was so wrong about Walken? Edit: I noticed the Emperor seemed way feeble and ineffectual compared to the 84 version but I think that had more to do with the script than Walken Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Mar 6, 2024 |
# ? Mar 6, 2024 03:06 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:Yeah, I was remembering right, in the novel the great houses don't declare war because they simply can't as long as Paul has a monopoly on spice: There's actually another part worth mentioning when comes to the movies pretty significant deviation in that regard: quote:"I swear to you now," he whispered, "that you'll need no title. That woman over there will be my wife and you but a concubine because this is a political thing and we must weld peace out of this moment, enlist the Great Houses of the Landsraad. We must obey the forms. Yet that princess shall have no more of me than my name. No child of mine nor touch nor softness of glance, nor instant of desire." The ending of Dune is Paul in a position of absolute victory, dividing up the spoils and preparing for a restoration of peace and political norms under his rule. It's a book written as if it was the end of it's story so there's no lead-in to the Jihad, and Messiah immediately jumps ahead to a point where the Jihad is already concluded without feeling much need to explain anything about what happened inbetween. The movie version at the very least, makes it abundantly clear that things are about to get much worse.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 03:09 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:In the Villeneuve film, on the other hand, to the extent that their loyalty to Paul is explained at all, they're maniacs and dupes. Their fanaticism is a repeated point of comic relief. Yeah the only funny bit in the new movie was Stilgar and his announcement of "Lisan al-Gaib!" whenever Paul did anything. Those moments were certainly played for comedy, but Stilgar as a whole is a comic relief character in this movie. Anyway part of the reason I don't think a third movie is necessary is because of how much this book foreshadows that things go wrong for Paul. Changing what happens with Chani is part of it, but also Jessica talking about the holy war, the fact that his biggest believer is played for comic relief, and the general tenor of the whole ending is very "this is the hollow victory before the fall." Certainly I'd watch a third movie though.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 03:18 |
Tim and Zen are a big part of why these films are popular outside of 40yo male nerds on dead forums.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 03:24 |
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Because Geidi prime externals were shot in infrared I enjoyed that the Bene Gesserit robes turn from black to white when they stepped outside
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 03:35 |
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Stilgar hyping up the Mahdi/ Lisan Al Gaib reminded me of Life of Brian. https://youtu.be/4HB7zqP9QNo?si=1H-JSLxSyI-6lq0f
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 03:42 |
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Tim and Zen are a big part of why these films are popular outside of 40yo male nerds on dead forums. Cassian of Imola posted:mfs keep blaming 'the source material' for poo poo that isn't even in the book Steve Yun posted:Because Geidi prime externals were shot in infrared I enjoyed that the Bene Gesserit robes turn from black to white when they stepped outside
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 03:42 |
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watched it again and idk y'all are crazy. it's incredibly loving good. or maybe it's me, maybe I'm the crazy one.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 03:48 |
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Vegetable posted:Villeneuve movies never have great casting. Gosling in BR2049 was uninspired — simply an echo of his Drive persona. Renner and Adams were decent in Arrival but come on, could you pick two more milquetoast actors? His casting in Enemy and Polytech is fantastic
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 04:00 |
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Ccs posted:Yeah the only funny bit in the new movie was Stilgar and his announcement of "Lisan al-Gaib!" whenever Paul did anything. Did we watch the same movie? Stilgar is funny sure but Feyd Rautha has plenty of funny moments (like Lady Fenring telling Reverend Mother Mohaim that the box got Feyd SUPER horny), and theres a scattering of funny moments between Paul and Chani early on in their relationship. Its not Marvel Quip level but the film has more levity than you think. kalel posted:watched it again and idk y'all are crazy. it's incredibly loving good. or maybe it's me, maybe I'm the crazy one. Nah, I'm with you. Sure I think some of the decisions Villeneuve made were a little eyebrow raising (like cutting the Guild out of the final confrontation or the lack of MENA actors) but these are incredibly minor complaints about a movie and movie series that is, so far, every bit the equal of Peter Jackson's LotR trilogy or Original Trilogy Star Wars.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 04:01 |
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Cimber posted:Mind you, i haven't read the other books, but how exactly is that going to work? The Fremen are great warriors on Arrakis, yeah, but once they are off their native soil how well are things going to go for them? They don't have the home dune advantage after all. 67 billion dead. So, it's going to go really loving well for them. Amazingly enough when you are stuck on a planet the people from space can just infinitely gently caress with you forever and you can do nothing about it. All space travel goes through the guild, who needs spice, and Paul controls the spice. So nobody gets to meaningfully attack Paul. Not in a straight fight, anyway.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 04:19 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:44 |
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Cassian of Imola posted:Ironically, after re-reading the end of Dune, I find the representation of the Fremen as a body a lot more orientalist in the film than in the book. Yes, they are religious in the book, but they aren't blindly loyal. They expect Paul to deliver things for them; they expect the jihad to enrich them (just like in real life holy wars, no matter what religion!). Denis is French Canadian, they are very let's say, weird about Muslims. More so than Albertans, hard as that is to believe.
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# ? Mar 6, 2024 04:32 |