quote:

The Emperor's entourage could be heard approaching now, his Sardaukar humming one of their marching tunes to keep up their spirits. There came a murmur of voices at the entrance and Gurney Halleck passed through the guard, crossed to confer with Stilgar, then moved to Paul's side, a strange look in his eyes.

Will I lose Gurney, too? Paul wondered. The way I lost Stilgar - losing a friend to gain a creature?

"They have no throwing weapons," Gurney said. "I've made sure of that myself." He glanced around the room, seeing Paul's preparations. "Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen is with them. Shall I cut him out?"

"Leave him."

"There're some Guild people, too, demanding special privileges, threatening an embargo against Arrakis. I told them I'd give you their message."

"Let them threaten."

"Paul!" Jessica hissed behind him. "He's talking about the Guild!"

"I'll pull their fangs presently," Paul said.

And he thought then about the Guild - the force that had specialized for so long that it had become a parasite, unable to exist independently of the life upon which it fed. They had never dared grasp the sword . . . and now they could not grasp it. They might have taken Arrakis when they realized the error of specializing on the melange awareness-spectrum narcotic for their navigators. They could have done this, lived their glorious day and died. Instead, they'd existed from moment to moment, hoping the seas in which they swam might produce a new host when the old one died.

The Guild navigators, gifted with limited prescience, had made the fatal decision: they'd chosen always the clear, safe course that leads ever downward into stagnation.

Let them look closely at their new host , Paul thought.

quote:

"There's a massed armada of the Great Houses in space over Arrakis right now," the Emperor said. "I've but to say the word and they'll - "

"Oh, yes," Paul said, "I almost forgot about them." He searched through the Emperor's suite until he saw the faces of the two Guildsmen, spoke aside to Gurney. "Are those the Guild agents, Gurney, the two fat ones dressed in gray over there?"

"Yes, m'Lord."

"You two," Paul said, pointing. "Get out of there immediately and dispatch messages that will get that fleet on its way home. After this, you'll ask my permission before - "

"The Guild doesn't take your orders!" the taller of the two barked. He and his companion pushed through to the barrier lances, which were raised at a nod from Paul. The two men stepped out and the taller leveled an arm at Paul, said: "You may very well be under embargo for your - "

"If I hear any more nonsense from either of you," Paul said, "I'll give the order that'll destroy all spice production on Arrakis . . . forever."

"Are you mad?" the tall Guildsman demanded. He fell back half a step.

"You grant that I have the power to do this thing, then?" Paul asked.

The Guildsman seemed to stare into space for a moment, then: "Yes, you could do it, but you must not."

"Ah-h-h," Paul said and nodded to himself. "Guild navigators, both of you, eh?"

"Yes!"

The shorter of the pair said: "You would blind yourself, too, and condemn us all to slow death. Have you any idea what it means to be deprived of the spice liquor once you're addicted?"

"The eye that looks ahead to the safe course is closed forever," Paul said. "The Guild is crippled. Humans become little isolated clusters on their isolated planets. You know, I might do this thing out of pure spite . . . or out of ennui."

"Let us talk this over privately," the taller Guildsman said. "I'm sure we can come to some compromise that is - "

"Send the message to your people over Arrakis," Paul said. "I grow tired of this argument. If that fleet over us doesn't leave soon there'll be no need for us to talk." He nodded toward his communications men at the side of the hall. "You may use our equipment."

"First we must discuss this," the tall Guildsman said. "We cannot just - "

"Do it!" Paul barked. "The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it. You've agreed I have that power. We are not here to discuss or to negotiate or to compromise. You will obey my orders or suffer the immediate consequences!"

"He means it," the shorter Guildsman said. And Paul saw the fear grip them.

Slowly the two crossed to the Fremen communications equipment.

"Will they obey?" Gurney asked.

"They have a narrow vision of time," Paul said. "They can see ahead to a blank wall marking the consequences of disobedience. Every Guild navigator on every ship over us can look ahead to that same wall. They'll obey."

Paul turned back to look at the Emperor, said: "When they permitted you to mount your father's throne, it was only on the assurance that you'd keep the spice flowing. You've failed them, Majesty. Do you know the consequences?"

"Nobody permitted me to - "

"Stop playing the fool," Paul barked. "The Guild is like a village beside a river. They need the water, but can only dip out what they require. They cannot dam the river and control it, because that focuses attention on what they take, it brings down eventual destruction. The spice flow, that's their river, and I have built a dam. But my dam is such that you cannot destroy it without destroying the river."

The Emperor brushed a hand through his red hair, glanced at the backs of the two Guildsmen.

"Even your Bene Gesserit Truthsayer is trembling," Paul said. "There are other poisons the Reverend Mothers can use for their tricks, but once they've used the spice liquor, the others no longer work."

quote:

"She's a princess," Paul said. "She's my key to the throne, and that's all she'll ever be. Mistake? You think because I'm what you made me that I cannot feel the need for revenge?"

"Even on the innocent?" she asked, and she thought: He must not make the mistakes I made .

"There are no innocent any more," Paul said.

quote:

"He is to be stripped. I'll want an earldom and CHOAM directorship for Gurney Halleck, and him in the fief of Caladan. There will be titles and attendant power for every surviving Atreides man, not excepting the lowliest trooper."

"What of the Fremen?" Jessica asked.

"The Fremen are mine," Paul said. "What they receive shall be dispensed by Muad'Dib. It'll begin with Stilgar as Governor on Arrakis, but that can wait."

AnEdgelord posted:

https://twitter.com/eurogamer/status/1764966484273402110?t=n9aFvCbs38LWqwCY2xaxbA&s=19

quote:

But religion as a concept, and seemingly a major theme, is still present: Dune: Awakening will zero in on the Butlerian jihad - the historical war of the Dune universe, between humans and artificial intelligence, "topical," as Bylos notes - for instance.

"I found a point in the universe - like it was a really fun thing to go back to the Herberts and be like, "Hey, if we say this happened in our universe, and then this is the flow of consequences from that, so at this point, things changed, are you okay with that?" Because then I can kind of position everything for a video game, and they were like, "Yeah, actually that's great", and then you're not stepping on the lore."

Cimber posted:

Mind you, i haven't read the other books, but how exactly is that going to work? The Fremen are great warriors on Arrakis, yeah, but once they are off their native soil how well are things going to go for them? They don't have the home dune advantage after all.

Steve Yun posted:

Villeneuve learned from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and gave Chani a blue bandana so you could tell her from the other fremen

Cassian of Imola posted:

one more crit on the nitpicky side: just loving say 'jihad' you guys

YggdrasilTM posted:

cohsae posted:

Dune lore question (only read the first book):
Are the fremen just great fighters purely because of the harsh conditions of arrakis/colonial rule, or (as I thought when I read it) are they borderline prescient due to spice exposure and so can "read" opponents in hand to hand combat? Does this ever get discussed?

cohsae posted:

Dune lore question (only read the first book):
Are the fremen just great fighters purely because of the harsh conditions of arrakis/colonial rule, or (as I thought when I read it) are they borderline prescient due to spice exposure and so can "read" opponents in hand to hand combat? Does this ever get discussed?

Famethrowa posted:

you know, I hate to say it, but the casting was really weak outside of the Harkonnens.. Timothee, Walken and Zendaya 👎

fun movie but the emotional core was really weak.

Steve Yun posted:

Hey if you nuke a bunch of mountains doesn’t that still mean there’s a ton of rock underground? How are worms supposed to cross that

Wouldn’t the ground be super hot

I think this movie might be a tad unrealistic

Cassian of Imola posted:

Ironically, after re-reading the end of Dune, I find the representation of the Fremen as a body a lot more orientalist in the film than in the book. Yes, they are religious in the book, but they aren't blindly loyal. They expect Paul to deliver things for them; they expect the jihad to enrich them (just like in real life holy wars, no matter what religion!).

In the Villeneuve film, on the other hand, to the extent that their loyalty to Paul is explained at all, they're maniacs and dupes. Their fanaticism is a repeated point of comic relief. Does the fact that the Fremen look like Arab Muslims make it easier for audiences to swallow their religious extremism, their motiveless bloodlust? Of course it does. They're [Fremen], what do you expect!

Steve Yun posted:

Hey if you nuke a bunch of mountains doesn’t that still mean there’s a ton of rock underground? How are worms supposed to cross that

Wouldn’t the ground be super hot

I think this movie might be a tad unrealistic

banned from Starbucks posted:

The guy controlling the worm did a sick kickflip over it

Illmade posted:

Nothing against her, but Zendaya in particular was a bad choice. Should have been an Arabic/Middle Eastern actress. It was hilarious how they tried to play off her American accent by saying she was a "Northern" Fremen.

Vegetable posted:

Here, Walken is one of the worst casting decisions in a blockbuster I’ve seen in a while. That said I think Pugh is gonna be incredible in the sequel, where her role will presumably be larger.

Cassian of Imola posted:

Yeah, I was remembering right, in the novel the great houses don't declare war because they simply can't as long as Paul has a monopoly on spice:

quote:

"I swear to you now," he whispered, "that you'll need no title. That woman over there will be my wife and you but a concubine because this is a political thing and we must weld peace out of this moment, enlist the Great Houses of the Landsraad. We must obey the forms. Yet that princess shall have no more of me than my name. No child of mine nor touch nor softness of glance, nor instant of desire."

Cassian of Imola posted:

In the Villeneuve film, on the other hand, to the extent that their loyalty to Paul is explained at all, they're maniacs and dupes. Their fanaticism is a repeated point of comic relief.

Ratios and Tendency posted:

Tim and Zen are a big part of why these films are popular outside of 40yo male nerds on dead forums.

Cassian of Imola posted:

mfs keep blaming 'the source material' for poo poo that isn't even in the book

Steve Yun posted:

Because Geidi prime externals were shot in infrared I enjoyed that the Bene Gesserit robes turn from black to white when they stepped outside

Vegetable posted:

Villeneuve movies never have great casting. Gosling in BR2049 was uninspired — simply an echo of his Drive persona. Renner and Adams were decent in Arrival but come on, could you pick two more milquetoast actors?

Here, Walken is one of the worst casting decisions in a blockbuster I’ve seen in a while. That said I think Pugh is gonna be incredible in the sequel, where her role will presumably be larger.

Ccs posted:

Yeah the only funny bit in the new movie was Stilgar and his announcement of "Lisan al-Gaib!" whenever Paul did anything.

kalel posted:

watched it again and idk y'all are crazy. it's incredibly loving good. or maybe it's me, maybe I'm the crazy one.

Cimber posted:

Mind you, i haven't read the other books, but how exactly is that going to work? The Fremen are great warriors on Arrakis, yeah, but once they are off their native soil how well are things going to go for them? They don't have the home dune advantage after all.

Cassian of Imola posted:

Ironically, after re-reading the end of Dune, I find the representation of the Fremen as a body a lot more orientalist in the film than in the book. Yes, they are religious in the book, but they aren't blindly loyal. They expect Paul to deliver things for them; they expect the jihad to enrich them (just like in real life holy wars, no matter what religion!).

In the Villeneuve film, on the other hand, to the extent that their loyalty to Paul is explained at all, they're maniacs and dupes. Their fanaticism is a repeated point of comic relief. Does the fact that the Fremen look like Arab Muslims make it easier for audiences to swallow their religious extremism, their motiveless bloodlust? Of course it does. They're [Fremen], what do you expect!