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Arujei posted:I have a problem with this, though -- Anno included lovely fanservice stuff even without creepy entitled nerds telling him they wanted more naked teenagers to jerk off to. I mean Jesus, look at Asuka's test suit in 2.0 (which you can't blame on the Gainax execs being inveterate shillers), which looks like it came straight out of a goddamn porn doujin. It just reeks of sheer hypocrisy for Anno to both include lovely fanservice stuff, and then say "fanservice is bad and you should feel bad for watching this." It's the same thing I don't like in Zetsubou Sensei, which has a bunch of context-less panty shots interspersed through the show, presumably to take the piss out of other shows that do the same thing, but at the end of the day the show is still engaging in dumb fanservice. So I don't think trying to flip it into some auteur "oh, Anno's being subversive and trolling folks!" actually works in his favor here. I dunno, quite a few real artists have done the same thing. Depicting a subject that titillates the viewer while also making them feel exploitative for their titillation is a fun way to make human beings reflect on the voyeuristic and perverted part of their nature. In anime fanboys, that's literally the entirety of their nature so it double fits in Eva.
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Apr 16, 2013 01:48
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People have mentioned a couple times that (in the series at least), it's odd that there's only ever one of each type of angel. To me, it made perfect sense. Each angel represented a possibility, a type of life that could be created by an angel+Adam impact. In such an impact (where an angel successfully mergers with Adam), humans would disappear from the earth and be replaced with lots of the type of angel that triggered the impact. In other words, the relationship between lilim/lilith and angel/adam is similar to that of a sperm and egg. This might help go toward explaining why everyone in Tokyo 3 appeared to be in the process of turning into Eva in the Rebuild version of 3rd Impact. An impact event creates a form of life from the materials available + the god being. When an Eva triggered 3rd Impact by touching Lilith, impact literally took the raw materials (humans) and began remaking them in the image of the sperm (the Eva). Because the impact was interrupted, these proto-Eva all died, thus the condition of Nerv HQ in 3.33. With this in mind, there's a bunch of different ways for an impact event to be triggered that we don't ever see or hear discussed. What if Adam merges with an Eva? What if a human merges with Adam? What if an Angel merges with Lilith? I'd be willing to bet these can all happen and all differently, and this accounts for the unpredictable results when an impact occurs. Seele and Gendo each thing they have a perfect scenario crafted, but there's actually way more variables than they're aware of. This is all getting away from the textual analysis side of things, but I think it's fun to speculate about the mechanics of what we're seeing on screen too. You can perceive the whole series as a battle between various factions to determine what life on Earth should look like, and they are basically gaming Punnet squares of various existing beings to define it. Hell, the whole "everyone's tang" thing in EoE could full well be an interrupted impact. The raw materials are broken down into a form that can be used to build the new life form, but Shinji asserts himself and interrupts the process before it can be reshaped.
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May 17, 2013 17:03
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The alien stuff is cool in a sci-fi sense, but the show is more fun if you accept everything that's happening as genuine pseudomystical religious magic.
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May 21, 2013 15:16
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I wonder if Anno read a lot of Kierkegaard before making Eva. Kierkegaard basically thought that the correct relationship to have with the divine is "I don't understand you and it leaves an incredibly empty place in my soul that fills me with sorrow." If you thought you understood what God wanted or was thinking, you're doing life wrong and will be punished. Eva seems to have a lot of that going on.
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Apr 30, 2014 18:29
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Wade Wilson posted:Someone posted this in the Meme thread in PYF: It's terrible, don't taint your memories of Robin Williams with it.
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Aug 13, 2014 16:18
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Sakurazuka posted:Shut up, it's one of his best films. Don't expect a comedy though, it's from when he tried doing serious stuff along with Insomnia. He was pretty good at being loving disturbing. No, for real, I don't have a problem with him doing serious work. I just thought 1 Hour Photo had a really weak plot and no amount of good acting was going to make it engaging.
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Aug 13, 2014 16:51
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Shinji is gonna do instrumentality again but it will just cause everything to start over again. A rebuild of rebuild if you will.
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Sep 6, 2014 03:52
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ImpAtom posted:Evangelions are weapons who have demonstrated immense power before. They can project AT fields and do seemingly impossible things including move on their own. Even if the worst possible outcome is not envisionable it doesn't mean they can't be aware of serious consequences. Here's the thing. Shinji is absolutely responsible for 3rd impact in a causal "do step 1, do step 2, impact" way. The problem is that you're conflating causal responsibility with moral responsibility. The causal process is pretty much "fight angels, save friends, ?*, world ends", where ?* is a bunch of crazy mystical bullshit that even the adults/manipulators barely understand. There is all kinds of deeply nested metaphysical craziness in those Evas but Shinji is trained to treat it like a giant robot he uses to protect people. He might know that there are "consequences" to his actions in the sense that he might be changed as a person or some people might be hurt, but there's simply know way he could know that his choices would cause a mystical event to destroy the world. As a result, the narrative of 2.0 and 3.0, to me, is twofold. One part is that we can make choices in the hope of a good intention, even if there are immediate consequences that might be bad. The second is that sometimes, even when we feel like we've accurately weighed the consequences of our decisions, our choices can lead to wild and unpredictable outcomes that we couldn't have guessed at. To go back to your gun analogy, it's like if Shinji pointed a gun at someone and planned to kill them because it would save his friend, but when he pulled the trigger it instantly killed everyone in the world. He will naturally feel guilt (and responsibility) for the choice, because he had resolved himself to do a bad thing in order to accomplish something good, but then the actual consequence is so incomprehensible and out of proportion with the expected outcome that he is made to feel not only like he is responsible for the earth's demise, but that his choices don't actually matter. Did shooting the gun blow up the world? Did it happen because I saved my friend? Or was it just random and there was no hope? Now, in 3.0, he's told that maybe there's a way he can undo this choice. It's still not really clear that the 3rd impact is actually a result of his choices, but all his mixed up feelings of guilt make him feel like it's all his fault no matter what. As a result, he's super easy for Gendo to railroad into doing exactly what's needed to start another impact. Basically, I think you're oversimplifying the themes of the move by trying to assign some kind of absolute culpability for the events to anybody. The resonating message is that the world is often hosed and arbitrary and you can make things worse by taking on every bad event as your own personal cross and trying to "fix" all the wrongs you perceive as your fault. The way out, and the thing that would be a true change for Shinji and growth for his character, is to realize that the blame for past events doesn't necessarily matter. The world is more complicated than that. Instead of spending all your time trying to (not) redo, you should instead recognize that there were choices you could have made differently and try to apply that knowledge to the future. Shinji was trying to go back in time and kill Hitler (  ), when he should have been simply trying to avoid the mistakes that led to WWII. Shinji up until 3.0 has no agency because all of his actions are attempts to correct past actions, or doing nothing in the hopes of not making mistakes. Hopefully Shinji will begin to gain agency by taking actions that are purely about building a better future instead of erasing the past.
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Sep 16, 2014 23:12
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Raxivace posted:One thing I really like about episode 2 is that you don't see the fight in real time. They go through most of the episode, making you think perhaps Shinji pulled this off somehow, and then you see the flashback and suddenly EVA-01 turns into an unholy abomination and goes Berserk and it's all Well, it would feel a bit more contrived if a movie suddenly jumped ahead only to flash back again 5 minutes later. That works well in a TV show with 20 minute episodes but I don't think it'd translate.
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Sep 28, 2014 07:52
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SHISHKABOB posted:It's pretty fun how bad the first like third or quarter of the show can be at times. The english dub is sort of erk at times and at other times they say stuff that I know is like a mistranslation or something cause I'm a super eva nerd, or it's just obviously wrong or w/e idk. The animation can look pretty funny sometimes too. Like I remember people posting about the rebuild films and the lack of "weight" or whatever of the robots and then I just watched that episode where they've got the big self-propelled nuclear powered third party robot thing and it goes out of control and there's a bit where Shinji is in Eva-01 running to catch up to it and it just looks hilarious. The still frames thing is just TV anime in general. They work on tight budgets and short timelines so if you can get by on dialogue+a still shot, you go for it.
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Oct 1, 2014 16:55
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Bisse posted:So I watched the Rebuilds 1 and 2 the other day. I thought I would do the same thing as half a year ago and write down my impressions from watching it, but honestly the first movie was pretty much a repeat of what I had already seen so I stopped writing them down about 20 mins in, and the 2nd was just... weird? That Russian chick seems very malplaced and seems to be a total mary Sue (everything goes perfectly for her, somehow steals an Eva and has no synchronization problems and shows up at just the right moment in the final battle, is the only one who manages to talk sense to Shinji for some reason). The ending felt... yeah of course Eva style cuh-raaay-zy and all that, but also badly written? Ritsuko is literally the information dump character, standing and looking on and explaining everything going on in minute detail, the whole thing reminded me of that "They live in the space between universes. Angels had cores in the TV show too.
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Oct 23, 2014 06:39
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" thing from the end of Indiana Jones 4. It had a combination of so many clichés I can't even count them as well.
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Szmitten posted:It is better undefined. And it is undefined in the show. But the games and multi-issue binders of information with "The TRUTH of Evangelion" that they're trying to sell are based on what Anno gave them. It's all ignorable, but if someone asks "What the fucks up with this thing" there's usually an explanation there (that kills the mystery too). I don't doubt that Anno had a detailed backstory in mind for a lot of what appears on screen, and I'd argue that it's even important that he did. The author needs to have something that glues together what he's actually showing on screen in order for it not to feel like he's just making poo poo up as he goes. But, it should stay in his head, because the actual work benefits from the mystery surrounding the seemingly divine invasion of earth. It actually kind of makes me think of Carnivale, where after the show was cancelled the producer released his giant 6-season plan that showed all these complicated lineages and rules for the magical powers people and it honestly kinda sucked all the fun and mystery out of the show. On screen everything was mysterious bordering on religious, and then his notes basically turned it into "no, it's p much just magical family trees of magic users".
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Apr 30, 2015 19:29
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Raxivace posted:They said that they didn't have a "specific Christian meaning" or something along those lines when it came to the religious symbolism, not that it was meaningless. Yeah, a lot of Christian imagery has other associations on our culture now. I actually had to explain this to my fundie grandma last week. My brother is an atheist, but a lot of his music talks about God and it was really hard to get through to her that "God" in the poetic sense can represent anything from "luck" to "providence" to "whatever order there is to the universe outside myself" to simply "talking to a wall because I feel remorse and I need something to forgive me". It would be even easier, I would think, for a Japanese director to use Christian imagery this way. Japan doesn't have a long history with the religion and it's still not very established over there, so much of his initial exposure to western Christian themes would have been through their use as allegory in our media. He probably only learned about the more mystical religious aspects of it as he started to research bits and pieces he wanted to include in the show.
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May 1, 2015 15:40
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This actually connects with a discussion that's going on in VoidBurger's Silent Hill 2 LP thread right now. Some people really want to approach literary criticism of video games and anime from a very logic-oriented view where finding continuity errors and breakdowns in logic is the goal and how you earn cred. Shows like Eva (and games like Silent Hill) aren't particularly interested in those sorts of things. They are symbolic works. It's probably overdoing it to compare them to free verse poetry, but it's a similar endeavor. The imagery and occurrences in Eva are there to convey different feelings, thoughts, and moods. That there's a somewhat cohesive narrative to carry you through it is cool, but Eva, and 3.0 especially, isn't necessarily about that. The narrative is just the structure to which the symbols are attached. 3.0 feels something like the slave-ship chapter in Beloved (OK, I know that's a massive overreach, but I can't think of a better comparison right now) in that it's really difficult to extract meaning from on its own, but the content around it (2.0, and hopefully 4.0 eventually) can provide more concrete narrative which we can then use to understand the emotional story that 3.0 is telling. 3.0 is ultimately about the feeling of isolation, and of being unable to fix your mistakes, and how often things that seem like an escape from these problems are really traps to pull you in further. The insanely overblown apocalyptic narrative surrounding this is meant to emphasize that for an individual caught in this mire of bad decisions and alienation, the struggle to escape can truly feel like a battle against the world. Shinji in this narrative is an avatar for the chronically depressed, for forever disenfranchised, for people whose mistakes have driven everyone away until they feel like they don't even know their friends and loved ones anymore (this last piece is what the timeskip accomplishes. Shinji hosed up so bad that everyone "disowned" him metaphorically, and when he surfaces from his funk just a little bit, he barely recognizes the world and the people who populate it look the same but behave in an entirely unfamiliar way). If you're trying to watch 3.0 and go "Aha, this Eva unit isn't as important as they pretended, and Kaworu's powers are inconsistent with previous depictions", you're missing the point. The movie takes you through the the feelings and experiences of a person who is just starting to try to claw their way out of a deep pit of depression and isolation. Give it another watch, but open yourself to the idea that it is poetry and not a hard sci-fi novel, and you might enjoy it a little more. And the gratuitous action scenes look super cool and have gorgeous animation, so there's that too.
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May 28, 2015 17:09
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Nate RFB posted:I don't particularly care for 3.0 but I don't think it's a confusing movie. It's fairly straightforward. I just don't think in the end it had all that much to say; it was a 5 minute dressing-down conversation on why Shinji is terrible stretched out to a whole film with the cracks filled in with flashy action sequences. I don't think the message is "Shinji is terrible". It's about the difficulty of overcoming bad decisions. Shinji did a terrible thing, but not with a terrible motive, and yet everyone's willing to bury him for it anyway. 3.0 is Shinji trying to climb out of a pit he dug on accident, but everyone keeps pushing him back in to punish him even though he didn't mean to do it in the first place. It's a surreal, beautifully animated tour of the life of someone who has hit rock bottom without even knowing how they got there.
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May 28, 2015 17:37
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Shinjobi posted:I watched a movie last night that apparently was trying to make me feel isolated by having a boring plot, unlikeable characters and an overall poor script. Or maybe it just wasn't a good movie. The simplest answer usually veers closer to the truth. This is what I'm talking about. You're trying to interact with it like it's a narrative instead of an expression. The plot is not the primary driver of the movie. If you're going in looking to be told a cool story, you're gonna be bored. It's fine if you don't like movies like that, but I don't think it's fair to call the script bad or say it's a bad movie because it doesn't suit your tastes. I bet you would hate Eraserhead too, but it's a drat good move, granted one with almost no plot and, since there's no dialogue, characters that you may very well find to be flat because you have to engage with them on a level other than what you're saying. Is this type of movie engaging to Eva's audience? Maybe not, but it seems pretty clear that Anno has a lot to critique about Eva's audience anyway so that is probably the point.
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May 28, 2015 20:29
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punk rebel ecks posted:So Nerv essentially houses Adam and whenever they make an Eva they take a clump of its big white mass and stretch it out and mix it with a dead person's corpse. So in order to pilot an Eva efficiently the soul must be familiar with whoever is piloting it and the stronger the connection the better the performance. Spoilered in case you haven't watched the whole series, but it's not Adam in the basement, it's Lilith. And since Man is the child of Lilith, it's implied that the Eva are mankind creating and enslaving horrific, giant versions of themselves to save themselves from the children of Adam, essentially acting as a monstrous and distorted image of Lilith herself, which further implies that humanity may not be worth saving after all.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:51
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Szmitten posted:Yes. People like to poo-poo it but the stuff in Eva that seems inscrutable (specifically the backstory and techno/religious babble) has pretty much been resolved. You'll enjoy yourself more if you focus on the characters rather than trying to solve the series like a puzzle. Not really. All the stuff in that game is based on one chat the game's producers had with Anno and a handful of notes he gave them. Sure, maybe that's what he was feeling as an explanation that day, but I think it's silly to treat that explanation as giving any insight as to what the show was about.
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Nov 14, 2016 17:49
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Szmitten posted:There is literally nothing in it that's controversial or isn't spelled out or implied in the show already. I don't think the show ever spells out or implies that Lilith/Adam are planet-seeders sent by literal space aliens to seed planets with life, or that the angels are just another type of life that the aliens seed some planets with. And I honestly think that explanation takes a lot of the fun out of the mysterious nature of what's going on.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:28
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Szmitten posted:#21 re: the Black Moon/Geofront: "A cavern left behind by someone who was not us." Neither of those says aliens specifically though, that's all Im saying. The show leaves open the" a Jesus literally did this" option.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:55
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Spiritus Nox posted:There comes a point where the difference between "an immensely powerful and incomprehensible force from another plane of being" and "Jesus" becomes largely semantics. yes, this is my point. the mechanical causes of the events of evangelion are ambiguous and could be explained in either way. but the way the show executes it enables you to see something science fictiony or genuinely religious and mystical and enjoy the ambiguity between and blending of the two. the game just goes outright "aliums" and that just takes all the fun and atmosphere out of it to me. like sure, it could be aliens, but also in 3.33 you have them doing poo poo like opening the gate of whatever-the-gently caress and it's like "this could be an extradimensional portal or a gate to hell, who knows?"
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Nov 15, 2016 01:25
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Shinjobi posted:I always feel bad for Yui. theres a strong argument that shes a devious mastermind who laid a whole other plot into motion that is controlling all the other characters even after her death and they don't even know it.
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Nov 15, 2016 05:29
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i am not going to watch a show called panty and stocking. like what the hell, why is it called that
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Dec 30, 2016 17:21
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Slime posted:It's weird, she's a Mary Sue who doesn't DO anything. She just kind of hangs around on the sidelines being implied to have importance but never showing it and never doing anything interesting. She's kind of a berserker, like Shinji! She's knows more about Unit 02 than Asuka! She's vaguely connected to GEHIRN due to that one photo featuring her! and so far she's kind of done gently caress all. Honestly she really does seem like she's put in to mock that kind of character. Is Mary Sue really the right term? Mary Sue specifically means a character that is just the author inserting themselves as the most competent and cool person around. Shinji is pretty clearly Anno's self-insert (and not a Mary Sue). Mari just seems like a weird overly strong character.
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Feb 13, 2017 19:39
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:stay in e/n and the posting ghetto forum please blow it out your rear end
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Feb 13, 2017 20:21
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:This isn't really true, though. It's the end result of a long game of telephone starting with "Anno got death threats over Episode 26" and "he put one of those death threats in EoE" which is also true. However, he actually got a ton of positive (and just confused) correspondence over 26, and there's more of that in those parts of EoE than there are death threats. Can you give more information about 25/26? The story I'd always heard was that they just ran out of budget for the last two episodes and rewrote them to work around that, but it sounds like slightly more was going on based on your post.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:36
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:
I really need to rewatch the whole series, it's been a while. Which version does everyone recommend watching? I know the various releases have had some differences.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:45
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:If you can read Japanese: And to think I first watched this stuff when I was 10. I was sorely unequipped to understand it.
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Feb 13, 2017 20:55
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Paracelsus posted:Weren't they also stretched thin already because they had to redo a bunch of the plot as a result of the Aum Shinrikyo sarin attack? I remember hearing this too. Eva is such a convoluted mysterious show that it becomes really easy to believe all this crazy borderline-myth around its making. It's like the craziness of the show leaks into your reality. Long live the new flesh.
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Feb 13, 2017 22:53
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Is Utena where that gif where a person is like "actually I'm a car" is from?
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May 23, 2017 15:49
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:probably turned him human Nah, now he's just a drunk bird. A sad, drunk bird.
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Jul 19, 2018 07:42
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I don't know if Charlesthehammer is trolling or if he truly only comprehends media at a surface level, but either way y'all are making hella good posts in response and I wish this thread sustained that sort of discussion more regularly.
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Jul 20, 2018 00:25
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in the year 2525 forum posters keep hope alive waiting around for anno-san to just release that last movie, man
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Jul 20, 2018 06:32
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:What's your guys' favorite reductive one-liner description of Evangelion? I think mine is "a show about the psychological brutalization of child soldiers fighting for an apocalypse cult." "it is a response to stereotypical action shows where stoic violence solves all problems in cartoon form"
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Jul 20, 2018 22:51
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Moose-Alini posted:It’s crazy how big a cultural thing Eva is in Japan. Shits everywhere. I'm not so sure. My impression is that this is niche advertising probably aired only during specific anime shows, kinda like the commercials featuring drag queens that air during Drag Race on vh1 and during no other time block.
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Aug 4, 2018 03:46
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Its loving huge I stand corrected. What a depressing show to have become a huge cultural thing like that
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Aug 7, 2018 19:38
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A bit of support for the ww2 allegory bit is the number of characters named after Japanese warships
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Nov 28, 2018 05:13
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Wait a new dub was part of the announcement?
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Dec 1, 2018 04:21
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MagusDraco posted:No but Amanda Winn Lee pretty much said it's getting a new dub and that she wasn't asked to audition as Rei. Good. A decent English dub might actually convince my wife to watch it. It's the only reason she would watch bebop.
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Dec 1, 2018 04:28
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Maurice Augustus posted:What is Shinji listening to in his walkman? Could it be..? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lab6Cz9hws Penpen is the final angel
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Dec 16, 2018 23:48
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