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very funny to me when people are like "is makima supposed to be obviously evil??" when she shows up and immediately tells denji his only options are to die as a devil or live as a pet, continuing on pretty directly from the mob boss calling him a dog.
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Oct 18, 2022 23:40
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denji is also a devil hunter and the earliest act we see him do in chapter 1 is save and befriend a devil, going so far as to offer it his body after death. it's really not ambiguous at all if makima is evil.
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Oct 18, 2022 23:44
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chainsaw man isn't nasty gently caress you bleak, chainsaw man says even your basest and most embarrassing desires are good if they keep you fighting to stay alive in a world that is totally indifferent to your death. giving up and not having to think or feel bad anymore is for losers, instead imagine how good it'll be when you have steak for breakfast every day and ten girlfriends and keep going.
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Oct 19, 2022 04:18
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one thing i'm very interested in for the adaptation is denji's shame around dreaming of better things for himself. like the first thing he thinks after coming back is that he should have just been happy with him and pochita, and then he equates that dream to the mob boss's efforts to expand his racket. he is so convinced his desires are wrong and the eventual catharsis of his admission that he wants to keep living because, actually, he wants an absurdly, exaggeratedly luxurious life is so good. he sits down and figures out how to beat makima specifically because he wants to exploit his fame! what a champ. on the manga, i wonder if one thing we'll touch on in coming chapters is the effect of chainsaw man on other fears. like, "justice" and just deserts as a general concept was probably not actually very scary in a world where people regularly die at random for no discernible reason (even aside from demon attacks, japanese citizens were possibly regularly dying on makima's behalf), but with chainsaw man superheroing it up that seems like something that could have changed recently.
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Oct 19, 2022 04:36
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chiasaur11 posted:if Aki had died she'd try to find someone else to provide Denji with a surrogate big brother. i want the version of chainsaw man where makima's plan doesn't quite work as smoothly as it does in the actual manga and with both power and aki dead in the yakuza attack, she has to scramble to make denji form deep emotional attachments to prinz and beam
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Dec 10, 2022 04:21
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talk about the animation/kobeni vs snake scene in the anime thread has me thinking about the adaptational changes. so far i know:
anything else notable they've compressed or changed to date? Valentin fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Dec 13, 2022 |
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Dec 13, 2022 19:31
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Imposter chainsaw man is somehow linked to Yoshida and I must know how. fake chainsaw made by octopus devil. no teeth just a bunch of tiny little tentacles spinning very fast and slapping you in the face
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Dec 16, 2022 05:39
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i wonder if asa falling and breaking something right when she's on the verge of acceptance by her peers, just as with bucky tells us anything about the nature of the devil causing this. not that eternity is off the table, but between the eternity devil-style hallway (complete with kobeni-esque devil hunter club member) for denji and asa tripping, it also has an element of specifically trapping people in the past.
Valentin fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 16:19
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Yoshida is 100% constantly tailing Denji the way he literally Just Appears in the middle of a visibly empty hallway without making a sound is one of my favorite things about this chapter e: oh wait is that supposed to actually just be kobeni's brother? i don't think he has to have been literally in college for what kobeni said about him to make sense, and obviously the "parents made me do devil hunting to get a scholarship" bit would match, particularly assuming kobeni actually did use the end of part 1 to get away from her parents Valentin fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 16:31
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lih posted:yoshida is already incredibly suspicious so it's not really that surprising that he knows real secrets too would be very fitting for the octopus devil contractor to be doing sort of a lurking manipulator thing, SPECTRE style. maybe he's like kaji and he shows up on everyone's payroll at least once.
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Dec 29, 2022 02:05
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:if they rushed thru the ending into Asa would be kinda jarring bomb devil movie assassins through makima defeat as season two eps 1 through 12 episode 13 first half is the debrief with kishibe, introduction of nayuta. second half is asa and the chicken devil, but not the full chapter. ends on asa killing bucky. roll credits. anime goes on hiatus for two years until part 2 is ready. Valentin fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 02:15
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OnimaruXLR posted:Denji can survive without his spinal cord. Just not his heart. yoshida comes along five minutes later and pulls the ripcord and gives denji some blood. he shows up to school Monday looking perfectly fine and not even particularly annoyed, tomie-style, and asa gets to spend a bunch of time freaking out
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Jan 11, 2023 16:50
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everyone always thinks of the end of eva moment but the way weirder and darker moment is when she comes onto shinji after rei dies
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Jan 18, 2023 06:47
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very funny to me that people spent so long thinking about like "wow is it weird and messed up for denji to have to raise this child who's so reminiscent of makima, what's that like, even her hair is similar, what's nayuta gonna be like" and then the first thing she does on panel is turn someone into a dog for displeasing her in a direct echo of pretty much the worst of the many bad things that happened to denji in part 1 lol. jury's still out on "heartwarming" but it's definitely hilarious e: rather than "denji explained everything to nayuta" or "nayuta remembers everything" to explain why nayuta knows every woman tries to kill denji, i prefer to believe that between part 1 and now denji has had like five different bomb devil-type arcs and nayuta has watched all of them go horribly wrong Valentin fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Feb 14, 2023 |
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Feb 14, 2023 17:03
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honestly after seeing a lot of people thinking this is uncomplicatedly cute and fun my only question is whether "denji is doing his best to make things to go differently but it's probably not good that the control devil is dictating his life and who he hangs out with" is going to feel like a twist to people when it stops being (extremely unsubtle) subtext and just becomes actual text, in the same way that many readers ignored or did not register the obvious red flags around makima. can't wait for things with nayuta to go very, very wrong and denji to try the nayuta of the prophecy ending approach only for that to make things even worse e: lots of references going on in these chapters: the dog leashes to match makima's part 1 chains for her servants, "thief" vs "bang", turning asa into a dog a la denji, wiping asa's memories like angel devil's. any other references to makima's greatest hits? Valentin fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 14, 2023 |
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Feb 14, 2023 17:51
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she's definitely not wrong, but she seems just as intentionally not right. it's not that the situation is definitely awful (though she does intend to leave asa as a dog forever and still ends up wiping her memories, which both seem sort of obviously not good), it's more that i've seen quite a few comments elsewhere about how wholesome it is when it seems much more ambiguous than that
Valentin fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Feb 14, 2023 |
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Feb 14, 2023 18:30
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e: quote is not edit
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Feb 14, 2023 18:33
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Mulva posted:She's a spoiled brat, sure, but so what? Let her be spoiled. Her previous life turned her into an actual monster, if she wants some ice cream and also for Denji not to associate with more women trying to kill him that's more humanity than we ever got from Makima. i get what you're going for but makima literally wanted both those things too lol. "unironically likes good food" and "apparently cares about denji's security (secretly because it's key to her ultimate plan to destroy his sense of security)" are two of makima's most heavily-hit beats in part 1. she's not makima because 1) she's literally not makima and 2) she's a child. but i don't think "this slightly tense situation which can be read multiple ways and specifically calls back to the author's earlier work about a child almost destroying the world because of her attachment to her brother" is going to swerve us by ending totally peaceably (though it could!) Valentin fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Feb 14, 2023 |
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Feb 14, 2023 18:38
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re yoshida I do wonder (not for any real story reason, just idle curiosity) if there's any significance to the fact that he and octopus devil actually line up pretty well. like on a basic level they seem to operate pretty harmoniously; in contrast to other contracts we've seen, he appears to be able to call on octopus freely at no known cost. but I'm more interested in the fact that while e.g. aki isn't foxlike (well ig a lot of his thematic stuff is bound up in the curse devil) and power actually does fairly little with blood as an idea (usually what's scary about blood is the sight of it or sometimes more abstractly the idea your own blood might somehow harm you through contamination, not blood made into big weapons), yoshida has a contract with the octopus devil and is in turn a slippery and dangerous individual who is clearly smart but comes across to the reader as alien and unknowable and who operates according to his own agenda. the octopus is a classic symbol of shadowy conspiracy, too. I don't think this means anything plotwise, but it's interesting in a series nominally about fear that yoshida is in some respects specifically scary the way an octopus is.
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Feb 16, 2023 09:22
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"I'm glad we had this chat. Have a good one." I have absolutely zero language chops but I wonder if this was an instance where whatever term was used in Japanese translates easily to parasocial but has been in widespread use longer than its English equivalent, leaving you the choice between a clunky paraphrase and a perfectly apt but slightly anachronistic term. Wish more serially published manga had translators' notes, rip that mha guy Valentin fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Feb 21, 2023 |
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Feb 21, 2023 21:04
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Electric Phantasm posted:Yoshida and Nayuta are kinda advocating for the same thing here, right? yeah nayuta's advice pretty obviously lacks perspective in addition to coming from a selfish place (which makes sense, she's a kid). we've continually come back to the question of what denji actually wants now that he's nominally risen above pure day-to-day survival, and it seems probably relevant that nayuta's thoughts here echo the way denji is thinking about chainsaw and fame near the end of part I, and he for the time being appears to choose to stay in that mindset rather than explore further also fun that yoshida plays femcel asa by appealing to her sense of moral/intellectual superiority (sure, it's easier to get by day-to-day with someone else, but actually there's no guarantee of a good relationship) while nayuta goes purely for scale (which feels like a bit of a reversal of makima's stance; rather than "most movies are bad, so let's get rid of everything bad and make sure there are only the few good ones", it's "who cares about connecting deeply to one person when you can glut yourself on the love of millions") e: also how have people posted so much about translation and no one said anything about the best and funniest choice in the chapter, "methinks". fuckin reddit-rear end war. Valentin fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Feb 21, 2023 |
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Feb 21, 2023 23:41
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this chapter also did a lot for me to pull Asa's part two arc into focus against denji's part one arc. a lot of part one for denji is about coming to acknowledge himself as not a dog but a person, who is allowed to have desires and feelings and to want to live for something more than mere survival even if that something is childish or stupid, which is why his emotional arc climaxes with the tearful realization that he actually wants a hundred girlfriends and steak every day for breakfast. where denji's thing was that he framed himself as too animalistic or subhuman to understand or appreciate anything beyond mere material security, asa's skewed self-concept revolves around the idea that her basic need for togetherness and socialization makes her unacceptably hosed-up and grasping and needy because she is otherwise (more or less) materially secure. she consistently literally trips and falls when attempting to reach out to others to change her or their situation, with tragic results (the cat and her mom, Bucky, the phone), and I think both the class prez earlier and the orphanage owner here hit hard on the idea that she somehow has it too good. she literally has the realization at her moment of death in chapter 98 that she needed to live more selfishly but has been driven around by war so aggressively for 25 chapters she hasn't been able to do anything about it. and meanwhile denji, with nayuta to care for, is similarly starting to ask how much he is allowed to want (and a lot to unpack there about how young man denji has to be saddled with a dependent by the narrative to get to the point of questioning the permissibility of his own emotional needs while fujimoto has asa constantly reprimanded for being too needy simply for being a young woman trying to live her life). making asa a teenage girl who's being driven into a cycle of self-loathing and despair because people around her constantly accuse her of having it too good based on the small glimpses they have of her life (heaven forbid a woman do anything), and then in turn having the dissonance between that and her obviously worsening mental health destroy her self-concept is very good and timely and an extremely fun turn after part 1 e: oh hang on wait "people around asa constantly accuse her of having too good a life based on the small skewed glimpses they have" is a great reason to have yoshida flag the concept of parasocial interaction and makes that part feel a lot more sane now. obviously in-fiction he's telling her to choose parasociality over real social relationships but it twigs for the reader that a non-zero number of asa's problems (beyond, you know, her mom dying and the horseman of the apocalypse in her head) are about people developing a false image of her based on those glimpses and punishing her for the image they created. Valentin fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Mar 14, 2023 |
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Mar 14, 2023 19:27
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the falling devil is such a great primal fear. the thread theorycrafting is fun but i never quite liked failure (or despair or change etc) as an idea because the primal fears feel like they should be fears comprehensible to the lizard brain. failure is an abstract idea that requires an understanding of contingency and the future (and the future is clearly not a primal fear). falling on the other hand is the most "i am afraid because my brain is telling me my sensory organs are detecting something wrong" animal-type fear there is
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Mar 14, 2023 20:49
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Eggplant Squire posted:Yoru's entire short term goal she is very upfront about is to get Asa to form close bonds with someone and then have her wrench it away by destroying them sorta runs in the family, I suppose
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Mar 28, 2023 21:51
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denji continuing to innovate in the field of "practical combat applications for immortality"
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Apr 11, 2023 20:22
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One very very minor thing I appreciate about this chapter is that what denji explains here is precisely what's going on at the end of part 1 when denji says he wants to have ten girlfriends and eat steak every day for breakfast (choosing to enthusiastically embrace the things which are good in life and make it worth living, even if our desires are petty or lowbrow, because you want to choose life over death and that's how you're gonna make yourself do it). that sequence was somehow genuinely too subtle for many people to engage with denji's characterization on a deeper level beyond "lol 10gfs and steak", which I initially found surprising but I figure is because denji doesn't spell it out, possibly because he cant fully articulate it himself at that point. So to have him explain it explicitly here for Asa is both a very good character moment that tells us a lot about where denji is now, nicely juxtaposes asa's private desires for personal connection with her "ewww, gross" kneejerk reaction to what denji says, and will hopefully help surface-level readers understand what is happening thematically in this very good manga. e: in many ways, what only denji can teach asa is not that life is worth living, or that cats are good, or it's nice to connect to other people. It's simply that Horny is Legal. Valentin fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Apr 18, 2023 |
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Apr 18, 2023 20:14
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Eimi posted:Death will just be Discworld Death of Rats. Like just the same character, no explanation. a humble suggestion/alteration
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Apr 20, 2023 23:00
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Scholtz posted:This thread after a chapter shows a mysterious devil/power: i don't care what kind of devil it is, what i care about is that the thread has devoted no time at all to discussing its COME THE gently caress ON facial expression this is the face of a devil who is about to go complain about how broken and unfair chainsaw man is to everyone they know 
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May 24, 2023 17:11
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Speculation time 
Hmm what's up with that bike 
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honestly the fact that Yoshida is pretty clear that he personally brought Denji here while it's the organization writ large that took Nayuta and the dogs makes me wonder if Denji going wild and loving up the org to get Nayuta back is part of whatever long con he might be playing. tying up denji but leaving his pull cord free and easily accessible is an obvious oversight and recipe for disaster and feels a little intentional. could just be that Yoshida's org intends to use Nayuta as a hostage to get Denji to chainsaw their enemies, of course, in which case the seeming lack of security is likely just because these accomodations are intended to be very temporary.
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Jun 14, 2023 01:16
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also yoshida saw this whole thing play out in a lower-stakes form exactly 30 chapters ago with the cake scene. he's been aware of who denji is and how he operates for like 80 chapters and still has zero understanding of him, it's beautifully stupid. also i think he just underestimates denji, who almost certainly understands that no one is going to want to kill nayuta because that would mean the control devil slipping out of their grasp again and no guarantee that the next incarnation on earth would be anywhere near as easy to work with
Valentin fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jun 20, 2023 |
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Jun 20, 2023 18:55
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prominent door imagery (which appears at basically every bad event in the story; we're even using stickers to stand in for bullet holes) and telephone imagery (aki's death) in this chapter. rough night for denji. the bathroom door being clearly shown as closed but somehow opening for meowy is an interesting image that doesn't quite parse for me yet. but it's very obvious and feels very intentional on the page (the door even opens outward, so meowy can't have pushed it open).
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Jun 27, 2023 17:49
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yeah i follow the thematic link on meowy, i mean the "shot of door not being open > shot of door somehow open > meowy appears without movement" sequence we get on the page. in one panel the door is clearly closed and then we don't see it for a bit and then it's just somehow open, with the page 7 shot of the open door almost serving to confirm that the door on page 6 was definitely closed. coming from fujimoto who thinks a lot in terms of film, that kind of visual "continuity error" feels intentional and carries weight (presumably only symbolic/thematic weight and nothing narrative, but you never know). from just the chapter i think you can build a read on it about denji's promise to find power breaking past his logic/defense of self-abnegation and intentional forgetting, but mostly it just makes me think we'll see imagery like this again and the meaning will gradually coalesce.
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Jun 27, 2023 17:59
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you're laughing. she's touching denji's wiener and you're laughing.
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Jul 18, 2023 18:20
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yoshida is by far more interesting if he's both really genuine and not manipulating the situation that hard (outside of the kidnapping your sister, be normal or we'll kill you thing). part I is all about denji getting manipulated by someone who fraudulently exploits his desire for intimacy and connection to utterly destroy his life. yoshida is way funnier and more fun to think about if all of this is him actually trying to both connect with denji and be an "ordinary high school student", including by actually unironically skipping school to see a movie (even if he can't stop talking and leaves halfway) and trying to sincerely and nonmagically fulfill his best bro denji's wish to meet "girls who are desperate for boyfriends" e: just like asa has yoru and denji has pochita, I choose to believe that all of yoshida's worst ideas come from the octopus devil, who is just off-screen constantly giving him advice on how to be a normal teen boy Valentin fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jul 18, 2023 |
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Jul 18, 2023 19:24
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I mean I assume denji is impaired by whatever mind affecting thing is clearly going on in the chapter. a lot of reactions elsewhere are like "uh what happened to his character development?? are we really doing this again?? wow he looks like he's really enjoying the chaos" which is a very funny thing to say in a chapter where a bunch of dudes are getting clearly and obviously mind-controlled
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Jul 25, 2023 16:37
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:this does make Yoshida incredibly suss. if he wanted Denji to stop being Chainsawman, attacking him seems like the wrong idea. I guess this devil could be in it for the goal of eating his heart. what does Yoshida get out of this tho? tbf yoshida has been repeatedly established as incredibly interpersonally stupid and specifically failed to identify one of denji's assassins back in part 1. so if this girl has a plan to kill denji and yoshida just didn't know and went "wow it's so cool someone told me unprompted they want to gently caress denji, that's so convenient for me" that makes perfect sense to me
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Jul 25, 2023 16:51
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hate to link a tweet but https://twitter.com/Mamoo10000/status/1683872221989679105
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Jul 25, 2023 21:42
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also it's asa's part of the manga, and her difficulty relating to people, which stems partly from her own abrasiveness, is clearly an important part of her character arc and something she's going to learn (or fail, but that seems unlikely) to overcome. "who's right for denji" isn't really a core concern at the moment, while "can asa learn to connect to another person despite her terribly depressing past" is also it's funny when she tells him no one would have sex with a man with a chainsaw coming out of his head and it immediately sends them both to hell.
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Aug 6, 2023 07:03
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this is all still incredibly weird because none of this answers where the guys came from or why they lined up to come at him one a time foot clan style, or why one would try to shoot at him with an airsoft. between that and the sudden increased public safety involvement and the reappearance of sword man this is starting to feel a little international assassins-y
Valentin fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Aug 8, 2023 |
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Aug 8, 2023 20:22
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y'know I wonder if we'll get a gun hybrid sometime in part 2, since that's the kind of thing that would tie back to part 1, could fit nicely if we're going to get an explanation about the hybrids in part 2, and has some obvious ties to war.
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Aug 8, 2023 20:39
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