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Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Wark Say posted:

I mean, doesn't Oda take a week off of every month to actually avoid this?

Also jesus gently caress, it's been a month since Miura-sensei left us for the big, horrifying non-euclidean castle in the sky, you'd think people would take that as a wake-up call.

He only got that when he got so sick he was in actual danger of dying. The manga industry and especially Shonen jump is really messed up , to the point I would actually argue it's worse than the animation industry there.

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Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Brought To You By posted:

Curse techniques haven't really had a 1:1 correlation between the shaman and their life per se. Nanami, Todo, Megumi, Nobara and a lot of others have techniques that were family inherited or seemingly arbitrary. Even in the killing game we've seen three sorcerers with hair related cursed techniques and I don't think that's because all three of them have hair fixations I think it might be some generic curse that can be granted by the culling game's conditions.

Then again, all the named Culling game participants might be along the same line as Higurama where their techniques more represent their mindset and occupations. Angel herself has a purification ability of sorts.


Nahh they represent aspects of their personality in all those scenarios except Megumi. Nobara takes pleasure in insulting people and digging at their insecurities for example, so her cursed technique is a reflection of that. Todo mentions how he was bored with his life and wanted it to be changed by someone interesting, which Boogie Woogie is a reflection of.

It's not always what hurt them or bothered them, it can also be a facet of their personality or an obsession.

Asuron fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Dec 11, 2021

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Ytlaya posted:

Most mangaka who try to make fights complex like this fail (see: Bleach), so it's nice to see one that actually has the writing chops for it.

I think taking moving away from the one shot kill Domain expansions and the Disaster level curses made it a lot better. The playing field feels far more even right now for every group and lets creativity shine.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

MonsterEnvy posted:

poo poo also felt pretty hopeless when Jogo roasted Nanami, Maki and Naobito with ease. Honestly everyone on the good side probably would have died if Sukuna had not defeated Jogo. I don't think anyone in Shibuya could have taken him.

That's why I feel it's better we moved away from opponents on that level as cool as those scenes are

It felt impossible for anyone to take on the disaster level curses other than Gojo , so the fights becomes less a question of how will they win and more of how will they stall for time before Gojo comes in and threatens them with instant annihilation so they have to run away.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
I love this whole fight and the sheer chaos from such powerful players doing their stuff all at once.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Pierson posted:

To me it just feels like a regular survival-game arc like the hunter exam, greed island or the chounin exam (lol autocorrect tried to turn that into 'chunni'). Rules designed to throw opponents together and encourage conflict, with enough edge-cases to allow mercy like we're seeing here and for some weaker-but-interesting characters to struggle through if they have to. But like absolutely a great one for sure, all the new characters have been great fun, especially the lawyer and comedian.

The ones you listed are literally tournament arcs my dude. The chunnin exam even has a 1v1 lot draw format for two different parts of it

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
I genuinely do not understand what happened in that chapter, does anyone mind explaining how that all worked?

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
Is pachinko just as unfathomable as this ? Thanks for the explanation on hat happened, because I think that's the first time where I genuinely just could not put the pieces together on how an ability works in a series. This is actually more complicated than any Nen ability in Hunter x Hunter and that series had an ability all about tax plus compounding interest baked into it.


MonsterEnvy posted:

Old Styles even fell out of favour, because the much more advanced Modern Domains would always overpower them. But this in turn lead to Domain Expansion becoming very rare cause everyone was trying to make it lethal and it was too hard for the vast majority of Sorcerers. This means an old style domain is now pretty useful because there are so few that actually know the version that would overpower it.

I'm not sure this is accurate. The idea is that domains that better structured will overpower the other in a domain clash.

Just because it's instant kill doesn't mean it will overpower a non instant kill one because it might not be as well constructed . The only reason instant kill ones take so much cursed energy to maintain and construct is because the requirement of the auto hit is a really hard condition to hit. But if the domain itself isn't as well put together, would it overpower the non instant kill one which is much more stable?

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

MonsterEnvy posted:

Modern Domains are stated as generally being more refined due to how advanced they are to create in the first place. They replaced old style ones cause they were just better.

If Old Style ones were effective against them, they would not have been largely replaced.

Nah Tengen specifically said that the instant kill techniques just became more popular and then that's all sorcerers were doing that because of how potent it was to have an instant hit so the old domains died out, but because it was so difficult to meet the instant hit condition sorcerers stopped trying to do them.

I went back and re-read it to be sure, there's nothing there about them being more powerful than non kill ones, just much much harder to create. I mean it makes sense, if you can make something guarantee your ability hits, why wouldn't you make your domain do that.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Brought To You By posted:

Straight up King Crimson as a CT and nobody can agree on how it works. Even the guy using it.

Hunter x Hunter made that ability for a character and actually explained it in a way that makes sense

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
This is a cool fight and it's honestly hard to call how this will go because both characters are absolute beasts

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

skipmyseashells posted:



Wow maki is fighting a digimon, i hope she’s dead so her bad character finally leaves and we get itadori or megumi back

Are you the next evolution of Naoya?

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
If any of the curses or special grade curse users he set loose come out of that barrier, it's pretty much game over for everyone. This is the part of the arc where the characters are trying to bring some order to the chaos by taking control with the rules, it was not gonna have Kenjaku enter the stage yet.

He doesn't need to do anything, he's already getting what he wanted by setting this all up and we don't even know what the true end goal other than chaos initially is, because like the other characters have said the game as is doesn't make sense with the goals Kenjaku said he wants to accomplish

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

skipmyseashells posted:

raws are out, I swear gege wants to see how much sales can fall before the manga smartens up

Are your posts about the manga over the last few pages meant to be some sort of bad joke or something like that? I honestly can't tell

Complete opposite opinion of literally every other place discussing the manga

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

EmmyOk posted:

Imo it’s fine to be critical of a manga even in parts other people really like or vibe with. It does seem like that guy hasn’t enjoyed the manga in a long time though so should probably take a break or smthn

Totally fine to be critical when there's a legit issue, but saying things like this


skipmyseashells posted:



Wow maki is fighting a digimon, i hope she’s dead so her bad character finally leaves and we get itadori or megumi back

This or their other posts aren't really on the spectrum where there's a real discussion to be had

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Manatee Cannon posted:

they set up angel for a reason, I think they're gonna try and separate megumi and his sister from their incarnations in spite of the risk

is Angel dead or did he just choke her out? Whatever happens he’s not gonna leave her alive, she’s the only one who can stop him or bring Gojo out now.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
Every time you think it can’t get worse for the characters, Gege doubles down and makes them suffer even more

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

EmmyOk posted:

Yuji using cleave would be so cool though. God Sukuna out and about just vibing opens up so many countless cool interactions and possibilities. The change up is so so good. Cannot wait for Sundays chapter.

It was inevitable he would come out, there were so many setups for it with multiple characters gunning for him. But the best part is how it happened, Yuji can’t basically live his life not caring if he lives or dies anymore because he’s the one who setup this mess.

The onslaught of guilt he’s gonna feel for being the cause of Sukuna pulling this off and how he goes about fixing it is gonna be a pretty excellent character moment

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
I think the Culling Games are great and the only kinda weak part was the first half of Maki’s half which immediately redeemed itself when Mr Sumo and Mr Katana entered

Yuji , Hakari’s and Yuta’s parts are just fantastic the whole way through with some of my favourite moments throughout the whole series.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

MonsterEnvy posted:

Mahito activated his Domain for 0.2 seconds. During that 0.2 seconds he tapped Todo's arm with the guaranteed hit (He did not have time to choose where to hit him). Because his Domain touched Yuji as well he briefly touched Sukuna's soul like in the first battle, but because the Domain was active so briefly Sukuna was not able to retaliate against Mahito. Only Mahito is talking, he's just telling Sukuna he is going to kill Yuji and Sukuna won't be able to interfere regardless of whatever deals he has with Itadori. Also Mahito punched Yuji not Todo.

Choso is sitting by a maintenance hatch which are small in Shibuya Station.

That’s your answer.Those little maintenance hatches are all over Tokyo stations.

Ohhh man seeing Shibuya animated will be a treat if they do it well, the Mahito fight in particular will be pure chaos on screen

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
so Yuji has reverse cursed technique judging by the hole on the back of his shirt or Sukuna was actually suppressing his CT and he’s got super regeneration or something as his natural ability. Hell it might just be heavenly restriction

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

ChaseSP posted:

Hole is just from usual anime poo poo showing a shockwave from a powerful blow blowing out fabric on the other side, there's no actual hole on his shirt or anything in the front

Nah disagree, there was very clearly blood coming out his back in the previous chapter

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
I think the arc is great. I loved all the kind of deranged personalities that have come out, which really brings it home that to be a jujutsu sorcerer you really have to be a special kind of broken person and not one anyone will really get along with.

Also just love the fights in general, they have a real chaotic feel to them

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

skipmyseashells posted:

another monster of a week fight where the enemy dies after throwing out a unblockable attack, on top of another woman dying. gege is hitting all his classics.

Only fight that broke the formula was hakaris side bout that just copied morel vs leol wholesale (cause I think even megumi’s fight earlier had that one weak sorceress lady die randomly on the side)


I like the chapter and the fight was good. Not sure what the issue is, because this fight only served to break Megumi. Were you genuinely expecting Yorozu to escape this alive?

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
We got a couple of things in the oven for Sukuna.

-Got the new cursed weapon from Yorozu and who knows what that does
- Got Mahoraga which is a pretty hard counter to what Gojo brings to the table
- He has Megumis body as a hostage
- Hidden techniques we don’t know about, while Sukuna knows all of his own thanks to Kenjaku

If it was Sukuna without these things, I’d say it goes to Gojo easily but it’s actually pretty stacked in Sukuna’s favour with all the new factors

Plus you also got the set plots of other characters gunning for Sukuna, so unless their story ends with them doing something else, Gojo is very likely gonna lose here. Everything narratively is pointing towards it

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
I completely disagree

I don’t even understand how it’s convoluted, the premise is a death game was made to fuel the purpose of exposing the whole of humanity to cursed energy and recreate the Heian era of sorcery.

The protagonists goals are simple

- Get Megumis sister out alive (failed)
-introduce rules that extend the game and avoid less killing , preventing the overall goal from happening as long as possible (achieved)
- free Gojo (achieved)
-get as many allies as possible to face Kenjaku down and remove him off the board

The pacing is also fine to me? I’ve done a re-read of the series and the pacing has always been like this from the get-go. It jumps around fast with lots of fights with side characters who don’t do too much overall (Mechamaru who the author loves got dismantled without ever really accomplishing anything for example).

I really like the Culling games, it feels chaotic and dangerous, the characters are crazy old school sorcerers should be and some of the emotional beats really hit hard. The action has also been really awesome across the board

I don’t think Nobara was a lynchpin in the dynamic, she was just a cool character among many others. She will also likely come back at some point because her soul related powers are awfully relevant in an arc about body swapping.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Gearhead posted:

Gege took like.. a year and a half to tell 2 weeks of story, then did a 3 week timeskip the moment Gojo was loose. The pacing IS a goddamn mess.

I kinda feel like the intent was to tell a fake tournament arc, but he took too long to tell that part of the story. And now he's rushing to make up time he lost elsewhere.

Uhhh that’s not indicative of pacing issues.

If we’re gonna go down that route, might as well call One Piece badly paced because events that take course over a few days take years to before they finish. It even does the exact same thing where you get random time jumps of weeks/days after the arc ends.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Fabricated posted:

Did they explain even a little bit about the curse or what it does or where it came from or why it happened

Kenjaku did it.


He told them what he did when he set up the culling game. He altered peoples brains with Idle transfiguration and activated people with reincarnated sorcery he had setup over the years.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

What even happened with this anyway

Heaps of soldiers from multiple countries got sent to the colonies, they either killed or captured low grade sorcerers or got killed by cursed spirits. Upon their death, because they died via cursed spirits, they also contribute to the total of curse energy Kenjaku needs for merger. this was done because there aren't enough sorcerers to generate the kind of output he needs, especially in the colonies with fewer sorcerers.

As of this time, this appears to have been achieved, except in Yuji's colony where they managed to save some of them.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:

yup totes chill dude. do what I say or I'll horrifically end your life and probably everyone you know

I mean that’s pretty much what a Shinto deity is yeah. People coexisting with these monsters and trying not to piss them off

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Taima posted:

I went back and re-read JJK and while it definitely flows better binging it, it's also pretty funny how it progresses once you get into the culling games.

The story was very narratively tight and followed conventional writing. When a thread is brought up, it's almost always followed up on, which is generally how good writing works. Everything comes together pretty masterfully and the culmination of Shibuya arc is so fantastic as a result, and really closes a lot of important concepts while also beginning new super interesting ones.

Then, the manga completely changes. The pacing quickly derails. Narrative plot points are brought up with clear intention to "become a thing" and then are abandoned, again and again.

Huge plot points are resolved off screen or just get left behind constantly and certain plot points that have been teased since the start of the manga are resolved quickly, feel unearned, and kinda leave everyone going "???" It's impossible to even go over all of the threads that are followed and then abandoned, but seriously, read the culling games onward and your mind will be blown how often stuff just comes up and then goes absolutely nowhere.

JJK is awesome but the narrative, as such, mostly died at the end of the Shibuya arc, and the manga is now a "don't think about it too much" kind of deal, which is fine and common in manga, but drat. Reading through it you can just see the motivation and precise narrative completely dissolve almost immediately post Shibuya, it's pretty wild.

Or in other words the manga feels storyboarded and planned through Shibuya and then turned into this... like... improvised weekly production after that.

I really hope that JJK gets a remaster/rewrite at some point because hindsight is 20/20 and the bones for an incredible, and very long, and very successful manga are sitting here in a pile (we are talking the next One Piece), just need to sort them out after this is all said and done. Pick a few threads out of the 287 concepts introduced post Shibuya that went nowhere and rewrite the manga from then on with those points in mind.

That being said after adjusting my expectations it's been a lot of fun. I do wish the battles had more panels on a weekly basis though; the way things are going, they basically need to get into the final set of battles and circumstances right loving now due to how few panels are actually being drawn per week if Gege wants to successfully end the series this year.

For that reason I suspect the plot is on rails now towards the conclusion, there's just no time.



^^ The hilarious part is that Gege basically said as much with this exact Kenjaku monologue and we didn't get that he was inserting himself into the manga and basically saying "I'm making most of this up as I go along from now on and hopefully that allows me to go beyond my limits because I am out of ideas"

Narrative voice: it was not better

Still one of the best running though, and he clearly wanted to find some motivation or story beat that allowed him to get fully back on board mentally, hence the giant pile of concepts that were approached and then abandoned. We would probably be in a different place with this manga if he had found what he was looking for in the flickering chaos.

Then you have the health problems Gege is experiencing, but I don't think there's any evidence those problems are physical. Gege is only 31 years old. It seems much more likely that he feels completely out of ideas with JJK, and is forcing himself to slog through the remainder of this arc.



Artists have a hard time pushing themselves through creating art they no longer resonate with or feel they can do justice to.

These are a lot of assumptions about planning , motivation, passion etc that have no basis other than you don’t like the story as it is. There are clearly lots of planned elements here with Tengen, Yujis whole deal, Kenjaku’s history , Sukuna as a whole , that are very clearly the planned out moments of this arc and all things revolve around them being resolved in some way by getting characters in the spot they need to be to resolve them.

It feels disingenuous to me to say it’s not planned , it felt like a very clear thorough line of the cast is building up allies and demonstrating/ building their skills to show what tools are on the table at the finale when things blowup. It felt narratively like the correct thing to do, and Gege is just using that necessity to show off cool fights while doing so. Some fights being less great than others is just normal in these types of series.

Looking at your other posts, where you took real issue with the fact that he took Todo and Nobara off the board for a bit and you had an issue with him killing Nanami for no other reason than he did those things, I don’t think I’m gonna agree with what you think a good story is( your suggestions as alternatives were….... yeah not great to put it mildly). Plus you wanted them to go back to light hearted spirit adventures after the devastation of Shibuya, which to me is just insane narratively , especially after where the characters are left both during and after the events.

Dunno my dude, feels like you’re stretching for reasons to justify why you don’t like the series anymore, when the fact of the matter is you don’t like where it headed which is totally fine. Don’t need to justify that, can just stop reading or keep reading but enjoy it less.

Asuron fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jun 19, 2023

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
I think the gavel is just part of his CT. The trial is also part of the judge man ability and as stated when the fight started, he figured he out he had to make barriers because of the necessity to complete the trial. I imagine it would work outside it, but the opponent doesn’t have to stand around while he completes the trial, because the shikigami still appears outside of the domain expansion.

So he figured out domain expansion by necessity and made rules ensuring the ability is completed before he can be attacked or interrupted.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

Brought To You By posted:

Taken on it's own the Gavel could have just been someone elses's CT and they could still be good with just that. I'm not saying it's top tier but if someone like MeiMei can presumably reach Grade 2 status with just physical reinforcement and a huge Axe, then I can appreciate what having a shapeshifting weapon brings to a fight. At the very least someone with that kind of power could also reach Grade 2 in terms of effectiveness.

It was the other way around. The mechanisms of Judgeman and his gavel came with his domain. All he did from there was analyze barrier techniques and that allowed him to understand cursed energy reinforcement.

I actually took a bit of a re-read to double check and it reads to me that he was figuring out his innate CT (Judgeman, the gavel) and he found he could use domain expansion really easy, allowing him to understand how to enhance his CT by reverse engineering it to see what ways he could enhance the base skills with the court rules and guilty verdicts.

It’s like Hakari’s CT, who can also manifest the train doors from his domain (when he fought Yuji)and presumably more can be manifested, the domain just amplifies whatever they can do and make sure it goes off to maximum effect.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
Nobara ain’t dead. The author is all but saying she was on the verge but she isn’t dead . He’s all but telling you she is coming back

The reason he hasn’t brought her back yet is likely for some big reveal or cathartic moment.It hasn’t even been that long (in story and out) since she’s been out of the game, just chill. Megumi never even said she was dead, just gave a solemn look which Yuji interpreted that way. Hell , I’m gonna go as far as saying her cursed techniques will be stronger because her technique was very directly tied to loathing for other people and making them suffer. A half blown off face will definitely fuel strong feelings in powering something like that.

Y’all need to have a bit more patience with these things, if it ends up she’s dead complain then. It’s likely gonna happen soon, because the Gojo vs Sukuna fight is not the climax of this series , that comes after.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
Things to remember in that scene

1) It has only been a few days since the injury occurred, Megumi has only seen her on the verge of death and still barely hanging on.
2) He thinks she is going to die, and doesn't think her prognosis is good.
3) With the above, he doesn't want to give Yuji false hope when he himself does not believe she will make it.

Yuji interprets all that as her being dead even though it's not necessarily true, that's how the scene always came across to me

Until it is explicitly said in text she is dead, she isn't out.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

PringleCreamEgg posted:

Nobara hasn’t been in this series for like two years. The tankobon with her getting hosed up was released in January of 2021. It’s been about 100 chapters since she has shown up. So while it’s been like two weeks or something in the manga, it’s a pretty long time out here.

Dunno man, I’ve been exposed to so many works of fiction where this is common, I really am not bothered by it?it’s fairly common I’ve found.


It’s not uncommon for characters fates like in One Piece for example, to go unknown for really long periods of time and then show up later for big moments. Maybe my tolerance of it is just skewed because of it, but two years in a manga really doesn’t feel like a big deal to me.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

skipmyseashells posted:

Not really an equivalent comparison when wano started up two months after jjk’s first chapter, it would be like sanji sitting out for 400 chapters straight

We didn't see Zoro and half of the crew for 78 chapters during Wholecake Island, we didn't see Sanji and half the crew for half of Dressrosa with a fate unknown on how they got away, just to name a few examples of when you don't see main characters( not to mention the entire period of manga Post Sabaody-Marineford). Plus loads of side character who we just don't see for large gaps of time such as Shanks or Blackbeard.

Feels pretty equivalent?

We also have other works like Hunter x Hunter where the main character has been completely sidelined and many characters are offscreen for long periods of time before reappearing. Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. Like I said, it's not uncommon in fictional works for stuff like this to happen and for it to happen over a long period of time.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

PringleCreamEgg posted:

I think the difference is none of those people had the back of their skull visible through what used to be their eye socket in their last appearances.

The issue people had was with that it has been a long time since she appeared. I’m addressing that and I even gave examples of moments where a characters fate was unknown for long periods of time. Don’t know why you are trying for a gotcha moment even though that was pretty clear.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012

MonsterEnvy posted:

He's almost certainly bleeding. I think Sukuna did something with Mahoraga. It's also possible that using RCT to heal the burn out is having a side effect.

Anyway agreed, I don't think Gojo has got this. Sukuna is just better at Jujutsu even if he does not have as strong a technique.


Could also be that Sukuna has been adapting to the six eyes with Mahoraga, meaning that Gojo can’t use the eyes to minimise his cursed energy usage. Whatever has happened, Sukuna has found a way to sue the adaptation power without the summon which means Gojo is almost certainly done here

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Asuron
Nov 27, 2012
She put up a cool fight, she didn’t get completely chumped like my boy Ryu

What a waste of such a beautiful pompadour

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