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I know mohegan and foxwoods rake 10% $5 max, 1 dollar goes towards high hand jackpot or bad beat jackpot depending on where you go... but the overall rake they take shouldn't be that much less since few pots will reach over $40. Maybe my math is wrong?
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May 22, 2012 21:24
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| # ? May 27, 2024 11:58 |
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Am I the only one that wouldn't consider somewhere that raked the game to be a "homegame" ?
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May 23, 2012 02:40
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I've got a question about this hand. I know the standard is to reraise preflop, but the table is so aggressive - everyone seemed to be calling with whatever. I wasn't sure if betting would be optimal thinking I was going to get 2 callers. I'm guessing I should have bet the turn? I'm just getting serious at this and have just started looking at some books - thought some analysis on this hand might help me. Apologies if this is insanely obvious to others. Merge - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com BB: $58.61 Hero (UTG): $55.60 MP: $30.67 CO: $65.64 BTN: $34.75 SB: $55.93 SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50 Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has Qd Qc Hero raises to $1.00, MP calls $1.00, CO raises to $3.81, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $2.81, fold Flop: ($9.37, 2 players) 9s 5c 7s Hero checks, CO checks Turn: ($9.37, 2 players) 2c Hero checks, CO bets $7.02, Hero calls $7.02 River: ($23.41, 2 players) As Hero checks, CO bets $15.60, Hero calls $15.60
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May 23, 2012 04:37
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OK first of all - You're under the gun so don't minraise here. Make it 3 or 3.5x here. Having raised so small you may have inspired CO to squeeze light here even though CO vs UTG with MP calling is not a steal spot so people usually aren't light here at all. Because of this I think it's best to 4bet and get it in if he shoves on you. As played I'd probably be betting the turn. You most likely have the best hand right now and CO will probably check behind and usually has some equity vs you. Plus you can get value from whatever random hands he has. He might even call you with just AK high or something like that. As for river it's pretty close and depends on the opponent. Yeah it's a great river to bluff and you've shown a lot of weakness by just calling and checking all the way so he might try a bluff but it's also very easy for him to have the ace or even a weirdly played flush here.
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May 23, 2012 05:45
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SReraising preflop is standard especially WHEN PLAYERS ARE JUST CALLING WITH WHATEVER. You can 4bet to like 11 and if you get a call bet most flops or call/jam anytime someone 5bet shoves. As played, I would basically do what dsquash said. Bet turn, or c/r turn if you think he's going to bet the turn. I have no idea what I would do on the river because I have 0 info on that dude and would never play this hand like this. Edit: read stack sizes wrong, edited. Mr.Showtime fucked around with this message at 13:20 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 06:24
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Also, what is your analysis on this hand and why did you play it like this. Because part of you being helped is having your own analysis.
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May 23, 2012 06:25
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Mr.Showtime posted:First off, buy in full. I think you're reading the hand wrong. Looks like our hero had a stack of 111bb. I won't pile on when people have already suggested a line, but concerning your thinking in the hand: Definitely raise more pre. If people are calling wide, you have a huge equity advantage preflop over the trash they're likely to call with. No reason not to build a pot when you're likely way ahead. Premium pairs are the kind of hands you want at tables where people will call preflop raises loosely.
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May 23, 2012 08:19
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Blinky2099 posted:My local $1/$2 homegame has 10% rake $6 max. I stay for the entire night which is usually about 7-8 hours, in which they rake about $800-$900 for the first $5. The extra 6th dollar in rake is supposed to go to some bullshit freerolls, but they don't run them often enough + they don't pay out anywhere near all of the money they get from it. The 6th dollar rake is roughly $150 a night. It's a pretty standard rake. I mean, it's higher than casinos but for a "home game" it's about right. Actually, might be on the lower side for what you can find in NYC. 1/2 is rarely beatable for any serious profit. If you're making 15-20/hr, you're doing pretty well. That's why I tend to play 5/5 with a max of $2k or 2/5 with max of $1500. I like deeper games as it's tough to beat anything smaller for a decent amount of profit.
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May 23, 2012 14:46
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Why do people in the states even play at home games when the rake is higher than the casino? Here in Australia it's usually the opposite.
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May 23, 2012 15:12
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dsquash posted:Why do people in the states even play at home games when the rake is higher than the casino? Here in Australia it's usually the opposite. ~1 and a half hours from the casino, players are significantly worse Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 17:39 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 15:40
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Thanks for all the input. I think I have a tendency to play QQ and JJ very weakly due to me trying to avoid an uncomfortable spot where an A or K comes on the flop. That said, I do realize this is a problem and I'm going to try to do better. Here's my own analysis and what I was thinking: Pre: I minraise UTG due to the above explanation - I'm timid with JJ/QQ and I also fear, due to the behavior of the table, that I'm going to get multiple callers with whatever I raise and I didn't want to build a big pot with little chance to improve against multiple callers (we've had several family pots already). Looking back at it now, this is pretty terrible thinking. On the CO reraise - I thought about tossing in another reraise, but decided not to due to having a caller behind me as well as being afraid of getting shoved on by CO. Thanks to everyone's input, I see the correct decision would be to reraise. At this point, I've figured CO has something like [AA-TT, AKs-AJs, AKo, AQo, KQs] - I'm thinking that now I should open that range up a bit because, as it was pointed out, this could be a light squeeze. Post Flop: Draw heavy board - I planned on either c/c or c/r this flop, but CO checks behind. Turn: I think I really should have bet here, but my logic was that he has shown himself to be ultra aggressive with air. I check thinking he'll bet with his bluffs and check behind with any pairs as I've seen him do in the past. River: I check hoping for a cheap showdown. If he's been bluffing with Ax, he's got there. If I bet, I'm only getting him to fold his bluffs and call with hands that beat me. His bet scared me quite a bit. I think it polarizes his hand to either hands that are way ahead of me and pure bluffs. I could see him having the following hands: [AA, KK, 99, AK-A9, KQ(spades), bluffs]. If he has AA or KK, I think he would have cbet the flop. 99 would make sense. I would think he would have checked behind to see sd on hands like AK-AT. A9 or even A7 probably would have also cbet the flop. The spade draw may also have go there, but I can't think of many spades that would 3b pf (maybe KQ?). So, I'm thinking he's raising with a set of 9s, a flush, or air. I've only played about 30 hands with him at this point, but have made the following relevant notes: [T] Played turn draw aggressively (gs) (1) [R] Bet 3rd barrel on river with air (1) I tank called and he showed with 4h 6h, which I hadn't even considered Any other pointers on my thinking? This has been incredibley helpful.
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May 23, 2012 16:30
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This is a very benign question. Do any of you have any advice on how to not spew when playing lower than your normal stakes?
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May 23, 2012 19:12
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olin posted:This is a very benign question. Do any of you have any advice on how to not spew when playing lower than your normal stakes? Just try really hard to think of everything in terms of bbs instead of money.
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May 23, 2012 20:31
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olin posted:This is a very benign question. Do any of you have any advice on how to not spew when playing lower than your normal stakes? When I am forced to play a lower limit live, I actually take a few hands where I won't look at my hole cards and try to win the pot by assessing the opponents ranges, betting, tells, etc. and only look at my cards when I think I can't win the pot. Probably very -EV in the long run but it may help build your hand reading skills!
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May 23, 2012 22:50
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Mind_Taker posted:When I am forced to play a lower limit live, I actually take a few hands where I won't look at my hole cards and try to win the pot by assessing the opponents ranges, betting, tells, etc. and only look at my cards when I think I can't win the pot. Probably very -EV in the long run but it may help build your hand reading skills! This is burning money at most 2/5 and all 1/2 tables at which I've played.
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May 24, 2012 00:01
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Mind_Taker posted:When I am forced to play a lower limit live, I actually take a few hands where I won't look at my hole cards and try to win the pot by assessing the opponents ranges, betting, tells, etc. and only look at my cards when I think I can't win the pot. Probably very -EV in the long run but it may help build your hand reading skills! This is incred stupid. Why don't you try reading hands in pots you aren't involved in instead. That way you have to read two people aswell!
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May 24, 2012 00:43
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He was asking for advice on how to not spew, and your suggestion is literally the opposite of that
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May 24, 2012 03:21
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Blinky2099 posted:He was asking for advice on how to not spew, and your suggestion is literally the opposite of that I don't think he's saying what you think he's saying.
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May 24, 2012 04:03
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Lord of the Llamas posted:This is incred stupid. Why don't you try reading hands in pots you aren't involved in instead. That way you have to read two people aswell! While this is good advice too, I've heard of people putting tape over the section of their monitor with hole cards for the same reason, just to get a feel for reads and learning some stuff. I could see myself doing that at, say, 10NL, but even at the lowest stake at the casino, 200NL, I wouldn't be able to lose that much without saying "This is stupid." I'd have to be a big baller to attempt it at that stake.
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May 24, 2012 09:11
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nachojim posted:Thanks for all the input. Hey I just wanna say that your reasoning and thinking here is pretty decent. Just make sure you're actually doing all this stuff while playing and not just afterwards. Limit the amount of tables you play at the same time if you're having trouble. dsquash fucked around with this message at 10:22 on May 24, 2012 |
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May 24, 2012 10:10
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dsquash posted:Why do people in the states even play at home games when the rake is higher than the casino? Here in Australia it's usually the opposite. NYC sucks. There are casinos around but they're a few hours away and it requires you to have a car or deal with an erratic bus schedule (unless going to AC). If I want to play regularly (i.e.: during the week), no real other option.
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May 24, 2012 16:02
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dsquash posted:Hey I just wanna say that your reasoning and thinking here is pretty decent. Just make sure you're actually doing all this stuff while playing and not just afterwards. Limit the amount of tables you play at the same time if you're having trouble. That's great to know, I really appreciate the feedback. You are right in that some of it was me thinking about the hand afterwards, so I'll take your suggestion and just scale it back to one tabling for awhile. One thing I noticed after I made the post was that I never even really considered the odds - I mean, I was actively trying to put him on hands, but I never really thought of my odds against his range and what the pot was offering me. I know this is probably all second nature for you to take in, but I'm finding all this information to consider a bit daunting right now as I'm just starting to get serious about poker.
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May 25, 2012 07:21
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nachojim posted:Pre: Don't vary your raise size based on your cards. Opponents will figure this out. Use position instead.
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May 25, 2012 07:30
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discstickers posted:Don't vary your raise size based on your cards. Opponents will figure this out. Use position instead. This isn't quite true. Most opponents you encounter will have no idea that you are changing your bet size at all, much less why.
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May 25, 2012 15:00
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Yeah if you are playing fish who will never get a decent sample on you, or even notice what you're doing, just bet more when you have a big hand. I mean don't go crazy with it, but bet at least a little more.
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May 25, 2012 17:59
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Mexal posted:NYC sucks. There are casinos around but they're a few hours away and it requires you to have a car or deal with an erratic bus schedule (unless going to AC). If I want to play regularly (i.e.: during the week), no real other option. somehow the game manages to run 2x a week dunno how everyone who plays in it isn't totally broke, only seen one competent reg in it.
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May 28, 2012 13:55
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Dr. Eat posted:yea this. westchester is especially bad played in a 5/5 bargame a bunch of times that was 5% capped at $50. there were 3-4 megadonks and at least one of them would lose a stack every orbit and do poo poo like ship like ATo pre for 100bigs. That's just plain ridiculous. There are a lot of games where the rake is absolutely ridiculous and I refuse to play in games like that, even if the players are just straight up terrible. Most games I play here are reasonable. Having played in London for almost 4 years, a rake capped at $7-10 doesn't really affect me. Anything over that and you're getting into unbeatable territory, especially if it's low stakes.
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May 28, 2012 19:11
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Mexal posted:That's just plain ridiculous. There are a lot of games where the rake is absolutely ridiculous and I refuse to play in games like that, even if the players are just straight up terrible. Most games I play here are reasonable. Having played in London for almost 4 years, a rake capped at $7-10 doesn't really affect me. Anything over that and you're getting into unbeatable territory, especially if it's low stakes. most recreational players aren't even aware there is rake heh. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 11:28 on May 29, 2012 |
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May 29, 2012 11:22
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So that gross $1/$2 home game I was playing at that was raking like $100-$120 an hour, for around $8-$900 a night? Talked to the guy and pretty much said "I'm probably not coming much anymore because the rake is ridiculous, but if you ever need me to have a game run, just pay me my portion of the rake and I'll play all night, allowing you to collect rake from all the other players." Same day I said that he took me up on that offer, and certainly will continue since he often doesn't have enough players. Got $70 back after playing for ~7 hours, and the rake collected was the lowest of almost any night (around $500 total.) The best part: I think the rakeback that's paid to me, about 1/7th to 1/8th of the rake, is at least equal if not more than the cost of blinds per hour. So I'm pretty much getting around 150-200% rakeback at this home game now, considering how much looser all of the fish are compared to me. Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 22:22 on May 30, 2012 |
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May 30, 2012 22:19
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I need to start a series of poker clubs and collect rake because $700 a night is insane
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May 31, 2012 18:29
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Crazy685 posted:I need to start a series of poker clubs and collect rake because $700 a night is insane check in HEM how much rake you pay. it's amazing that FTP and UB were able to go bust. i am really curious as to how much house games make per hour if anyone has any info on that...like a $10min bet blackjack/craps/roulette table.
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May 31, 2012 19:18
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I've profit shared in games that make ~1k a night and i do not envy the guy who runs it. He has to constantly deal with assholes, idiots and cheap bastards and stay up til 6am doing it. Add in the time it takes to keep getting new blood to keep the game alive, going to the grocery store before every night and the occasional night that starts slow leaving you waiting around trying to convince a couple disgruntled players to wait it out only to have them leave before 3 more people show up and do the same thing and it's really not such a great deal.
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May 31, 2012 19:29
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This game easily gets to $800-$900 rake a night almost always and only runs 630pm-1 or 2 am at the latest.
Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 20:04 on May 31, 2012 |
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May 31, 2012 20:02
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Yeah that's a pretty nice gig, other than the ever present threat of being robbed and hoping that all they do is take your money. Edit: Not saying that i wouldn't play at that game, because i'd be super pumped to find anything like your deal. MAN OF MANY MOUTHS fucked around with this message at 20:13 on May 31, 2012 |
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May 31, 2012 20:10
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MAN OF MANY MOUTHS posted:Yeah that's a pretty nice gig, other than the ever present threat of being robbed and hoping that all they do is take your money. Or if you're in NY, getting raided, having to repay back all the money confiscated and then finding a new location.
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May 31, 2012 20:19
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It's really annoying to see how much in rake and jackpot you pay at live places in Florida. In $2/$5 NLHE almost every pot is raked $7 total, $5 for the house (10% capped at $5, but almost all pots are > $50) and $2 for the jackpot. Theoretically you get the jackpot back over time but assuming you win 3 out of 30 hands per hour you're still paying close to $15 in rake per hour, or close to 10 BB/100. However, it's still fun and there are enough fish to make up for the lost rake so meh. At $1/$2 NLHE it's closer to maybe $10 per hour as not as many pots are > $50, but that's still paying like 16 BB/100 solely to rake. This is why I laughed at my friend who wanted to become a live $1/$2 pro. Even if he absolutely crushed the game at like 30 BB/100 pre-rake, he'd only make like $9/hr without any insurance, benefits, etc.
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May 31, 2012 20:48
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who tracks their winrate pre-rake? seems pointless/impossible. meh i pay stars 25$/hr to play nl100. it's an operating expense. really sick though to see how much rake i paid this month. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 21:51 on May 31, 2012 |
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May 31, 2012 21:49
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Seems like a really standard spot but I just didn't know what to do: Live $2/$5 NLHE. Effective stacks are about $1200. Table is loose with two whales that everyone is targeting and both have big stacks right now. Villain is a really tough young player who puts a lot of pressure on players pre and postflop and is a winner most nights. I am trying to avoid any confrontations with him unless I have the goods. He's not overly loose preflop, but he'll certainly call a PFR with two cards that play well multiway. I pick up A  K UTG+1 and raise to $25. Villain calls in the CO. Whale 1 calls on the button, Whale 2 calls in the BB.Flop comes 10 52. Pot is about $100. Whale 2 checks, I bet $65. Villain raises to $200. Both whales fold. I...?I ended up just folding the hand after tanking for about a minute. My reasoning was: 1. He had two whales behind him who are hard to bluff if one of them had, say, a 10, which means he is more likely to have a made hand. 2. I had the A which takes away some of his semi-bluffing combinations.3. We were both pretty deep and I didn't want to make a big mistake out of position on future streets. Is this okay? If there any merit to check/calling the flop especially with two whales who might pay me off if a were to hit and one of them had like the Q or K?
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Jun 1, 2012 05:21
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Mind_Taker posted:Seems like a really standard spot but I just didn't know what to do: If he had 2 whales behind him who are tough to bluff, then wouldn't his raise make sense if the plan was to have them call and you fold? Obviously if 1 or both call you aren't folding but I think he could do this raise kind of wide if he is expecting calls from the whales. EDIT - I probably don't know what I am talking about. I was thinking maybe Villian raises hoping to get you to fold (if he thinks you might not be a good player) so he might do it with a pair + FD type hands. Like QT, KT, JJ - stuff like that. If the whales are stations maybe he gets the hero to overthink and fold something better. Big Poppa fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 1, 2012 |
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Jun 1, 2012 14:51
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| # ? May 27, 2024 11:58 |
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You're $1200 deep with CO but what are the whales stack sizes? If you're already deep with the whales it makes me more inclined to fold. e: pappa what are you saying? You thick CO raised wide into 2 calling stations so that hero would fold and he could bluff the stations later in the hand? This after hero has shown tons of strength by raising early and cbeting into 3 people? Or are so saying CO is trying to get hero off his probable overpair while simultaneously going for suicidal thin value with the whales who'll possibly call with worse than whatever CO has? Basically I don't know what you're talking about. AARO fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jun 1, 2012 |
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Jun 1, 2012 14:54
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