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InitialDave posted:Jay Leno's had a Scion round to look at and drive: God drat it. Trying to constantly repeat to myself "wait for the used models, wait for the used models, wait for the used models..."
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Jun 18, 2012 18:18
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All this talk of switching TCS off stinks of kids watching Clarkson or Needell videos then thinking they'll do the same, but on the street. I tracked my old car for 3 years and never turned it off, but then again DSC is pretty aggressive compared to what you'll get from Toyota. Even the 'sport' modes will surprise experienced drivers if they're really going for it. Now what we need is another F&F movie to come out featuring the BRZ/FRS and the Carpocalypse can begin.
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Jun 18, 2012 19:54
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Das Volk posted:Now what we need is another F&F movie to come out featuring the BRZ/FRS and the Carpocalypse can begin. Oh god, the insurance rates...
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Jun 18, 2012 20:14
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Das Volk posted:All this talk of switching TCS off stinks of kids watching Clarkson or Needell videos then thinking they'll do the same, but on the street. I tracked my old car for 3 years and never turned it off, but then again DSC is pretty aggressive compared to what you'll get from Toyota. Even the 'sport' modes will surprise experienced drivers if they're really going for it.
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Jun 18, 2012 20:18
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Internet Explorer posted:God drat it. Trying to constantly repeat to myself "wait for the used models, wait for the used models, wait for the used models..." Don't expect much, if any, depreciation for the first five or so years. I still can't find a fifth-gen Camaro for under 20k yet.
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Jun 18, 2012 20:36
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Ether Frenzy posted:People have been driving far more powerful RWD cars that never had traction control in them without incident for 50 years, so I think this is more a problem of "This guy is a terrible driver and has no experience in anything bigger than a 120 hp CRX" Without incident?
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Jun 18, 2012 21:08
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japtor posted:From what I've read now and then it seems to be more of a sense of it being a nanny control holding them back from the full driving experience or something. Like it's not necessarily that they want to go wild and drift or anything, they just don't like the thought of a computer possibly interfering with their driving (cue mattdizzle and his hatred for all electronics and automation). Still stupid and likely influenced by their reviews of course, but more about their basic complaining about TCS rather than the showboaty driving enabled by turning it off. I love the DSC on my car, it allows for some obscenely high slip angle before it intervenes. If it's more like 90s GM traction control I can completely understand.
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Jun 18, 2012 21:23
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CharlesM posted:Without incident? if only they'd had traction control
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Jun 18, 2012 21:51
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Ether Frenzy posted:No, you're right. I literally don't think I've ever seen a Mustang, Corvette, Camaro, 911, Countach, F40 or any other RWD with no traction control from the 60's, 70's, 80's or 90's ever drive anywhere at any speed by anyone without understeering into a pole I think that's why the old 911 GT2 was called "the widowmaker" or "the doctorkiller"... EDIT: vvv Oh, I guess my [joke] tag didn't take. The Prong Song fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 01:15
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Sigma X posted:I think that's why the old 911 GT2 was called "the widowmaker" or "the doctorkiller"... In the situations where the old 911s were dangerous traction control would not have made any difference...
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Jun 19, 2012 09:11
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Das Volk posted:I love the DSC on my car, it allows for some obscenely high slip angle before it intervenes. If it's more like 90s GM traction control I can completely understand. It works so well that it even saved your rear quarters on that closed run race you did in the M3  Fuuucckkk that was a close call in the video. Ether Frenzy posted:No, you're right. I literally don't think I've ever seen a Mustang, Corvette, Camaro, 911, Countach, F40 or any other RWD with no traction control from the 60's, 70's, 80's or 90's ever drive anywhere at any speed by anyone without understeering into a pole You only understeer into the pole if you're a woman. A man oversteers into the pole. 
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Jun 19, 2012 15:12
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ROFLBOT posted:In the situations where the old 911s were dangerous traction control would not have made any difference... Stability control may have though, it does a pretty good job at keeping SUVs from tipping over when driven by a hamfist.
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Jun 19, 2012 16:20
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Sockington posted:You only understeer into the pole if you're a woman. A man oversteers into the pole.
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Jun 19, 2012 22:30
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Just got back from my test drive of the FR-S. The manual tester was taken out minutes before I arrived despite the fact I had requested it, so I had to take the automatic. Frankly, the gearbox was extremely good. Almost unnoticeable in automatic mode, and very compliant to the driver's wishes in manual mode. I fit in with room to spare, and the seats are much nicer than the ones in my Mustang in terms of support. I'll comment first on what I noticed as a passenger, since the salesman insisted on doing the first part of the drive for some reason. The engine sounded great at high RPM but was nice and quiet during normal driving. The stereo system sucked terribly and would require immediate replacement of most if not all components thereof, compared with the upgraded-but-still-factory-installed unit in my Mustang. Driving, then. Well, obviously the suspension and handling of this car are the high points. I concede they are far superior compared to my Mustang. The steering is quite sensitive, and indeed it doesn't display the strong urge to straighten itself out constantly that the Mustang does. Didn't get a chance to really flog it, but you could tell it would be great fun on mountain roads. What I wasn't thrilled about was how little acceleration it seemed to have. Even foot-to-the-floor, it seemed just about on par with my Dad's GL-Class diesel, or perhaps a second faster to 60. Compared to the 'stang, it was like standing still. And as much as I loved the ride and the handling, and the looks, and most other parts of the car, I just can't get past that. Getting back into my Mustang afterward and putting my foot into it properly... I just can't go back now. Get it to the 250-300HP range? It would probably be my next car. Until then, as much as it impressed me with its other qualities, I just don't ever see myself buying one.
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Jun 19, 2012 22:37
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I am already seeing situations where there are cars on the lot for more than a week, I can only see that stretching out with time. All I have to do is bide my time and strike when the iron is hot! Speaking of waiting until the iron is hot... InitialDave posted:Jay Leno's had a Scion round to look at and drive: The most interesting part of this clip was when Jay asked if there was a stripper version available. Jack's response was that they exist in japan but he doesn't see a market for it in America...but that Scion already has in a few special orders that he can't really talk about. To me this sounds like they are already waiting on their release series, perhaps a full TRD version? Oh god, a full TRD factory kit...I don't think I could stop myself from going into deep deep debt. Rabble fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jun 20, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 01:35
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Does the BRZ have a different audio system than the FRS? Or is the only difference the headunit? I haven't been inside a BRZ but from what I've noticed about the FRS, the sound system sounds the same as the one on the Prius C (Terrible). Pretty sure even Volkswagen's "Premium 8" sounds better on the Golf.
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Jun 20, 2012 02:30
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I'd guess the speakers are the same, but there won't be a mid amp or anything. The headunit on the Subaru is a slightly repackaged Pioneer nav unit, I'm sure it sounds fine.
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Jun 20, 2012 02:34
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I'm pretty sure the Subaru's head unit is 190 Watts or something similar while the FRS's is 300.
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Jun 20, 2012 02:44
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The stock subaru 2009 wrx systems is one of the worst systems ive ever heard for what its worth. Helped a friend tear it out and the speakers are by far the chepest OEM speakers possible. The basket was plastic, the cone was plastic, the magnet was from a refrigerator. Theyre great for weight savings i guess. I wouldnt doubt that the speakers in the BRZ are pulled out of the same parts bin
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Jun 20, 2012 02:49
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In Europe the GT-86 gets a ~400 watt JBL system with 8 speakers, it also has navigation. The BRZ doesn't even get a screen, it has those old school audio stacks from the early 2000s.
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Jun 20, 2012 03:18
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Max wattage is a terrible measure of how good a stereo system is. You want to look at its normal operating wattage, what range of sound it can produce (the wider the better), and it's impedance (higher is better, basically means it can produce more sound per watt). If youre looking for better sound but are hesitant to replace the headunit then some speakers are a very good (and cheap) investment. I threw some infinity kappas into my car and it's a night and day difference even with the stock headunit. The scion HU comes with sub out and sub settings already in the firmware. It wouldn't be any big deal to add an enclosed powered sub to the trunk. Run power from the battery and plug into the HU, instant bass. ---- But for what it's worth, I think the scion system is actually pretty decent for an OEM solution (sounded good to me on my test drives). I believe they used rubber for the cone instead of paper which instantly makes it better than 99% of stock stereos and the layout of the speakers in the cabin is actually very smart. Rabble fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jun 20, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 03:18
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What would even be the point of replacing the head unit without replacing the speakers? I can't speak for everyone, but for me the head unit is just a way of getting from the iPod to the speakers, and if it does that acceptably, it can stay. The speakers, however, make a huge difference. Why even offer lovely speakers in a $30,000 car? There are probably more people who would prefer no speakers at all (for weight savings) than people who want to settle for lovely-sounding speakers. Or maybe I'm wrong. My Dad was a recording engineer, so he always made a point to illustrate to me the difference between good speakers and bad speakers, and why bass alone is lovely. Perhaps other people just don't give a poo poo, or honestly don't know the difference. EDIT: Mind you, they probably don't have someone who knows their head from their rear end actually set the stereo settings up properly in the demo cars, so I doubt you're getting anything close to what the system is capable of if set up properly.
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Jun 20, 2012 03:27
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PT6A posted:Why even offer lovely speakers in a $30,000 car? You must be new to the world of Subaru automobiles. I can't think of a worse car stereo than the one in my 07 Leggy.
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Jun 20, 2012 03:30
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PT6A posted:What would even be the point of replacing the head unit without replacing the speakers? I can't speak for everyone, but for me the head unit is just a way of getting from the iPod to the speakers, and if it does that acceptably, it can stay. The speakers, however, make a huge difference. Why even offer lovely speakers in a $30,000 car? There are probably more people who would prefer no speakers at all (for weight savings) than people who want to settle for lovely-sounding speakers. I hope you're right. The Mustang's sound system makes what I heard in the Scion unbearable.
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Jun 20, 2012 03:35
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DerDestroyer posted:I hope you're right. The Mustang's sound system makes what I heard in the Scion unbearable. See I'm the opposite, I don't like how the speakers are in the door, makes the sound feel like its only coming from one side instead of both equally. And the mustang HU could use more adjustment options. To answer the headunit question, besides the available functions a good HU will have enough sound equalizer adjustments to give your setup optimum sound (god I sound like an audiophile, but you try adjusting bass and treble when all you really want is to fix the mids ...) and to power the speakers. The sound comes out of the speakers though so that should always be your modification priority, followed by an amplifier to boost the output (if your speakers can handle it) and finally the HU (though sometimes the HU can provide more watts to the speakers and render an amp moot).
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Jun 20, 2012 03:45
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Have a test drive booked for this Saturday. Specifically told my partner that she cant be there so that we dont make any impulse decisions because I have a feeling its going to be very much like driving my S13 but with 15 years less wear and tear and 15 years more RnD/gadgets. The toyota rep that contacted me about it couldnt give specifics on what trim or transmission they are getting in though, only specified "its white". I guess its because selling nothing but motorised whitegoods for 15 years they probably dont really get asked about anything else besides colour. He did say if I liked it it would be available for delivery Monday, which again, seems really bizarre considering he couldnt even tell me if it was a GT or GTS, and what transmission it had.
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Jun 20, 2012 04:02
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Laserface posted:Have a test drive booked for this Saturday. Specifically told my partner that she cant be there so that we dont make any impulse decisions because I have a feeling its going to be very much like driving my S13 but with 15 years less wear and tear and 15 years more RnD/gadgets. Who are you doing the test-drive through? (IIRC you're in Sydney yes?) I wouldn't mind taking one out for a spin.
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Jun 20, 2012 04:07
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Anyone know what to do with Traqmate data? http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2012/06/real-car-real-data-scion-fs-r.html
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Jun 20, 2012 04:24
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2ndclasscitizen posted:Who are you doing the test-drive through? (IIRC you're in Sydney yes?) I wouldn't mind taking one out for a spin. Stewarts Toyota at rockdale. its literally 5 minutes walk from my house otherwise Id probably go to a bigger dealership but they said they are getting 2 cars into stock Friday, ready for test drives Saturday.
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Jun 20, 2012 05:02
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PT6A posted:Perhaps other people just don't give a poo poo, or honestly don't know the difference. It's this one.
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Jun 20, 2012 05:16
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Cream_Filling posted:Anyone know what to do with Traqmate data? You open it with the program linked on that page. You can analyze the lap time, but its only really useful if you have another lap or another car's lap to compare it to.
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Jun 20, 2012 05:31
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I have a few grand in my home audio system and I honestly don't give that much of a poo poo what my car sounds like as long as it has an aux in and bluetooth. The system in my '11 WRX is plenty sufficient for me. A car is a horrible place to actually try to 'listen' to anything anyways, especially when you are driving properly (with the windows down.) The sound system in your car is for singing horribly off key to as you thrash the engine or for drowning out your obscenities that you yell at your fellow drivers. The bar doesn't have to be high to meet those goals.
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Jun 20, 2012 05:32
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Rabble posted:All I have to do is bide my time and strike when the iron is hot! These two are mutually exclusive  No one else at my work is even interested in getting a test drive of one of these, though one of the managers has started a petition to get them on the works lease scheme.
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Jun 20, 2012 06:07
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bull3964 posted:I have a few grand in my home audio system and I honestly don't give that much of a poo poo what my car sounds like as long as it has an aux in and bluetooth. The system in my '11 WRX is plenty sufficient for me. A car is a horrible place to actually try to 'listen' to anything anyways, especially when you are driving properly (with the windows down.) my car is the only place I really care about music mainly because its the only thing I can do where having loud music doesnt really interfere with what Im supposed to be doing. Having said that I dont spend ridiculous amounts of money on my stereo. I just buy a head unit with the features I want, Good splits for the front, average multi-way speakers in the rear and a sub/amp in the boot driving the fronts.
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Jun 20, 2012 06:15
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PT6A posted:...Or maybe I'm wrong. My Dad was a recording engineer, so he always made a point to illustrate to me the difference between good speakers and bad speakers, and why bass alone is lovely. Perhaps other people just don't give a poo poo, or honestly don't know the difference... There is a reason why Bose and BEATS BY DR. DRE are so popular, and it isn't sound quality. The Prong Song fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jun 20, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 06:17
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Brand hype & celebrity endorsement? What's your point exactly?
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Jun 20, 2012 07:27
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Cakefool posted:Brand hype & celebrity endorsement? What's your point exactly? My point is that it's very difficult for people to judge the difference between speakers/audio setups without being able to swap listening to them back-to-back; and that marketing, hype, and celebrity endorsement bear more weight and are easier to obtain then seeking out such back-to-back comparison; which leads to people buying Bose.
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Jun 20, 2012 14:29
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Laserface posted:my car is the only place I really care about music mainly because its the only thing I can do where having loud music doesnt really interfere with what Im supposed to be doing. This guy knows what's up. Occasionally I'll drive around town without the stereo on so I can listen to my engine, but doing any kind of distance, music is practically a necessity. I can't imagine doing a 6-7 hour road trip without a decent sound system. And Bose does manage to make some good speakers. A lot of them aren't, especially recently, but they aren't entirely bullshit artists.
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Jun 20, 2012 16:24
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So last night I saw the commercial for the FR-S, seriously looked like some 30 second clip of a Live Action Initial D TV Show, the amount of totaled cars will be astounding. Hopefully they won't crash them all so I can buy one in a few years as a weekend car.
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Jun 20, 2012 17:15
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I'm just curious how much work it will be to pull my tired EJ22 out and replace it with one of these whizbang 200bhp rev monsters.
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Jun 20, 2012 17:23
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