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GrandFromage posted:Personally, I'd like records of what happened in the west during the "dark ages" (historians hate this term), especially the period from 476 to the mid/late 600s when it appears Roman culture continued more or less unchanged under the new Germanic rulers. You should read Gildas and Saint Patrick. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Excidio_et_Conquestu_Britanniae) GamerL fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jul 10, 2012 |
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Jul 10, 2012 22:53
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mediadave posted:
If you are referring to these, it has already been discussed and no one knows what they are for.
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Jul 10, 2012 22:57
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Could someone go further into how Greek Fire worked and how it deployed? I remember watching something on MythBusters about it and they couldn't reproduce it.
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Jul 10, 2012 23:09
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Could someone go further into how Greek Fire worked and how it deployed? I remember watching something on MythBusters about it and they couldn't reproduce it. The formula of Greek fire was a closely guarded state secret and no one knows it. There are numerous theories, none are conclusive. On ships, it would usually be fired through a flamethrower that was pumped by hand and could spray it a good distance. There were hand-portable versions of these, as well as grenades that were basically a thin walled clay pot full of it with a fuse. All the reports indicate that it would burn in water (some even say water ignited it, suggesting a potassium or sodium component), and the only way to put it out was either to bury it in sand or, strangely, to pee on it. That latter one was reported a couple times and has given people fits on trying to figure out what kind of chemical reaction was going on there. Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:The gold and silver in quite a few coins There are some bits of weapons and armor and stuff that came from conquered peoples, too. Not a lot but it's out there. Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Grand, what do you do? I'm an English teacher in South Korea. Putting that degree to work!
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Jul 11, 2012 01:14
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Could someone go further into how Greek Fire worked and how it deployed? I remember watching something on MythBusters about it and they couldn't reproduce it. A tv show called Ancient Discoveries recreated (if I'm remembering right) Greek Fire in one of their season 2 episodes. If you haven't seen it, it's a really great show in general. e: After looking a bit more, it looks like they just recreated what they used to shoot the Greek Fire. Short clip if you're interested http://www.history.com/shows/ancient-discoveries/videos/ancient-flame-thrower#ancient-flame-thrower Gringo Heisenberg fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 11, 2012 01:14
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Jul 11, 2012 01:22
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GamerL posted:You should read Gildas and Saint Patrick. A (bad) primary source on barbarians in the early Dark Ages would be The Origins and Deeds of The Goths by Jordanes, which is an oral history written by a Gotho-Roman to convince the Eastern Emperor not to genocide his entire nation. As such, Jordanes had to essentially make the Goths have as big and illustrious a history as the civilized peoples: he connects the Goths with a bunch of random similarly-named Dacian tribes from the Greek Dark Ages, explains that the Huns were the spawn of Gothic witches and demons, tells how the Goths split into the Visigoths and Ostrogoths and gives the national conversion story to Christianity (Arianism, he admits regretfully). Jordanes then finishes with an in-depth retelling/whitewashing of Roman–Goth diplomatic relations that focuses on their loyalty to the empire and explains why, sadly, they were forced to kill an Emperor and later sack Rome in the Gothic War. The final climax to his tale is how the Goths were instrumental in holding off Attila's attack on Rome. (In reality, Rome was suffering a famine at the time and couldn't support an entire army, so Attila turned around.) He must have been successful, because the Byzantines didn't ever get around to killing all the Ostrogoths off. Also, if anyone's interested in Attila then it's absolutely necessary to read the only primary source remaining of a meeting with the Scourge of God, which was by Priscus of Pannum in a diplomatic embassy.
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Jul 11, 2012 05:06
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This at least is how I imagine Greek fire.
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Jul 11, 2012 08:27
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What do you know about the composition of Rome's aqueduct system and water system?
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Jul 11, 2012 18:55
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Ultras Lazio posted:I've read every-single-page and I am not sure you appreciate how grateful and happy people are of what you did here. To put this into perspective and strenghten the point, i've finally subbed to SA for the sole purpose of thanking you for this topic.
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Jul 11, 2012 20:34
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It's not a subscription unless you're a really lovely poster.  God, this Rome thread is awesome. Is there anyone here knowledgeable enough to do something similar about, say, the Caliphate and subsequent sunni-shia schism or the politics of India? Any kind of specialized history thread ends up golden. Back on topic: How did Roman armies deal with elephant, camel, or chariot forces? I seem to remember that the Britons used chariots when Caesar invaded and they seemed to present the Romans with quite the challenge.
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Jul 11, 2012 21:24
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Grand Prize Winner posted:It's not a subscription unless you're a really lovely poster. Follow-up: How did they invade? Small boats? I know they were still roaming the Mediterranean with ships, but would those survive the channel?
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Jul 11, 2012 21:48
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I recently started reading Legions of Rome by Stephen Dando-Collins (Amazon Link: http://www.amazon.com/Legions-Rome-definitive-history-legion/dp/1849162301) and thought I would recommend it to this thread. The book is basically a history of every legion to exist under Rome. I've read the first third of the book, which covers literally all basics of the legion (recruitment, pay, daily life, organization, officer roles, equipment, etc) and brief histories of each legion (founding, recruitment areas, symbols, notable engagements) and so far it's been a really interesting read, although nothing really groundbreaking and new. The last third of the book covers important battles throughout Roman history. Apparently the author did an incredible amount of research using everything from primary sources like Livy and Tacitus, inscriptions of walls and monuments, archaeological evidence, and even coinage. Has anyone else read it?
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Jul 11, 2012 22:21
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canuckanese posted:I recently started reading Legions of Rome by Stephen Dando-Collins (Amazon Link: http://www.amazon.com/Legions-Rome-definitive-history-legion/dp/1849162301) and thought I would recommend it to this thread. The book is basically a history of every legion to exist under Rome. I've read the first third of the book, which covers literally all basics of the legion (recruitment, pay, daily life, organization, officer roles, equipment, etc) and brief histories of each legion (founding, recruitment areas, symbols, notable engagements) and so far it's been a really interesting read, although nothing really groundbreaking and new. The last third of the book covers important battles throughout Roman history. Apparently the author did an incredible amount of research using everything from primary sources like Livy and Tacitus, inscriptions of walls and monuments, archaeological evidence, and even coinage. Has anyone else read it? Read a lot of reviews on it, entertaining but inaccurate with the details. A nerds coffee table book maybe? 
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Jul 11, 2012 22:57
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DarkCrawler posted:Julio-Claudians died when Nero offed himself. Galigula's murders had been so massive that only Claudius and Nero pretty much survived, Claudius because nobody thought he was a threat (he wasn't) and Nero because he was a kid. Probably are some decedents of bastards running around. Plus these people had large families that aren't as well documented a few generations back - while the direct (legitimate) lines are certainly dead, there are quite likely many decedents of the more obscure relatives. It's just that it's nearly impossible to trace.
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Jul 11, 2012 23:10
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Grand Prize Winner posted:It's not a subscription unless you're a really lovely poster. On-topic, what is the current or most recent opinion of the historical community about the emperor Gallienus?
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Jul 12, 2012 02:07
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I really think it's time for another general history thread in GBS. Someone would have to run the idea by the mods first though.
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Jul 12, 2012 02:20
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Question: Pick an era during Roman history, say ... late Republic. Pick an a city under Roman control, not Rome, but a major city in one of the territories that Rome conquered in its early history. You will be transported to this place at that time in history exactly one year from now. What will you do to prepare? Edit: You can change the place and time period however you want. It's just something fun to day-dream about.
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Jul 12, 2012 05:05
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Baiae. Year doesn't really matter, although during Caligula's reign would be particularly interesting. Resorts/casinos/parties? Or as Seneca called it "a vortex of luxury and a harbor of vice" basically the Las Vegas of Rome. Not to mention getting to rub shoulders with influential Romans and Senators. Count me in. I assume I get to be as wealthy as I want for this fantasy, if I'm just your average Joe then...well I might still pick the same thing because it beats the provinces or the slums of Rome, or being in the legions.
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Jul 12, 2012 05:21
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TheChimney posted:Question: It'd be pretty great to be in pompeii right before the volcanic ash kills everyone there.
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Jul 12, 2012 06:28
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Get immunized against everything that we have a vaccine for. Get in the best shape of your life. Memorize some science books, medical books, steam engine designs. If I'm returning I'm going to need several cameras and infinite supply of batteries and SD cards, at the very least.
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Jul 12, 2012 07:14
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Honestly, for all the amazing things that go on throughout the history of the Roman Republic and Empire, I would most love to see the beginning days when they're putting it all together. Fast-forwarding through the initial settlement on the Palantine and the trading markets along the Tiber, and beginning with the overthrow of the last king of Rome and the establishment of the Roman Republic. What a truly exciting time to be alive. Actually I remember writing up a "If I could go back in time to Italy" at one point for the SA forums. I decided on going back to Florence in the 1500s, where there was truly a chance for a single individual to have altered the course of history for the better. Such a dynamic atmosphere. It was written several years ago, and it's certainly rather Marty Sue-ish, but I still think it's an enjoyable bit of theory-crafting and historiography: quote:Assuming that I found myself in the middle of Europe on Jan. 1 1500, I would make my way to the new Republic of Florence, Italy, and ingratiate myself with Leonardo da Vinci, who will have just returned to the city. My extensive knowledge of science and engineering will make this a relatively simple procedure, though it will take time to transform my French into complex Italian. Kaal fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 07:15
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Learn Aramaic, show up in Judea ca. 25 AD, and give Jesus some ideas. In addition or as an alternative, beat Peter into pulp.
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Jul 12, 2012 07:22
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Crash course in Latin. Pump up on military tactics, history in-depth, medical knowledge and so on. Drop down around 160-170 BC and work my way into the imperial court. Within a few years of my appearance, Commodus mysteriously falls down the stairs. Repeatedly if possible. Then I'll help Marcus Aurelius find a proper heir while we spend our days talking about philosophy and science.  Alternatively? Pop back in time of the Second Punic War and give Hannibal ALL the military and political knowledge I can possibly have to accompany his already incredible talents at war, and tell him to march on Rome and take over Carthage. Not because I hate Rome or anything (I love it!) but because Hannibal deserved better! Or poo poo, drop down during or slightly before the Crisis of the Third Century, join any of the Legions, rise through the ranks because my knowledge of history, strategy, military technology and tactics are thousand years beyond anyone else, make myself general and crown myself Emperor. If half those punks could do it so could I. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 11:00
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Find books of every meanial knowledge one may ever, ever need. Especially casting proper iron and steam engines. Get in the pre-marian era, found the Engineer corps: Ones with steam and beyond engines. Possibly knowledge of basic electricity. Scientific method, perhaps. Good luck stopping Rome now! Assuming history doesn't change too much on that, institute a special arms wing to get Livia, Caligula, Nero and Commodus out of the way before they do anything fishy. Try to enforce the "choose your successor" thing for the Emperors. And most importantly, get health at a state good enough for preventing the epidemic under Marcus Aurelius. Since we're there, OP: How was the roman's attitude to science? Engineering we all know, but science?
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Jul 12, 2012 11:25
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Aureon posted:Find books of every meanial knowledge one may ever, ever need. But whyyyyyyy?  Romans were absolute dicks. Like, barring Spartans, the most savage anti-intellectual fascists that have walked on earth. Why would anyone want to see them murder and enslave even more peoples than they historically did?If you could travel through time the least you could do is something constructive. Like in the Technicolor® Time Machine...
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Jul 12, 2012 11:44
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The Greeks were waaaaaaaaaaaay more dickish than the Romans. The anti-intellectual thing is an enlightenment era myth. Sure they made fun of Greeks for it, but the reality was they adopted it wholesale. They had plenty of native art and culture, but when classicism began with the enlightenment-era historians they ignored most of it in favor of Greece. What do you mean by Roman science in that question? Science as we know it didn't exist at the time. They certainly experimented and developed new knowledge and technology but science as a process was a much later invention.
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Jul 12, 2012 11:52
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Here's a good 'un: If you could go back to Roman times, what would be the best way to preserve stuff for future generations? Grab a bunch of books and dig a hole, etc?
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Jul 12, 2012 12:40
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Nenonen posted:But whyyyyyyy? Romans were no more dickish then any other people of the era. Less then most, really. Hell, Roman society was pretty inclusive to comparison to any other society of their times. Plus who's to say that you couldn't reform them in other ways as well?
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Jul 12, 2012 12:44
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DarkCrawler posted:Or poo poo, drop down during or slightly before the Crisis of the Third Century, join any of the Legions, rise through the ranks because my knowledge of history, strategy, military technology and tactics are thousand years beyond anyone else, make myself general and crown myself Emperor. If half those punks could do it so could I. I thought about one like this too. It reminds me of an old Twilight Zone episode where this guy knows everything there is to know about the Napoleonic Wars, how they fought, order of battle, tactics, how to use weapons, etc. Magically he's transported back into the 1800s and he gets to live his dream of being in a Napoleonic army and...he gets shot in the first battle and has to have his leg amputated. For some reason that episode stuck with me and now when I imagine being sent back in time and joining an army I think "well poo poo I'd probably end up getting killed before I became anybody significant"
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Jul 12, 2012 12:45
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an skeleton posted:Here's a good 'un: If you could go back to Roman times, what would be the best way to preserve stuff for future generations? Grab a bunch of books and dig a hole, etc? I'd want to make three or four different caches if we're in a hypothetical where I can do whatever. Collect a copy of every book. All of them. Now make copies and stash them thusly: One stash written on wood and buried in a peat bog ala Vindolanda. One stash sealed in clay pots and left in the desert somewhere. Egypt would be a good choice, find a nice cave in the western desert. One stash in Herculaneum just before Vesuvius buries it. One stash in clay pots buried in mud somewhere. Ostia maybe. That'd give you a reasonably good chance of the entirety of classical writing surviving to the modern day, in the primary sources. You could obviously etch copper sheets or make stone carvings but I'm assuming you meant something that would, in some way, be reasonable. The bottom of the ocean can be a good spot too, I'd pick the Black Sea for that since the oxygen content tends to be low, things get preserved there.
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Jul 12, 2012 12:54
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an skeleton posted:Here's a good 'un: If you could go back to Roman times, what would be the best way to preserve stuff for future generations? Grab a bunch of books and dig a hole, etc? Huge volcanic eruptions, like Pompeii x10. I don't know how to arrange this but there must be a way.
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Jul 12, 2012 12:56
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an skeleton posted:Here's a good 'un: If you could go back to Roman times, what would be the best way to preserve stuff for future generations? Grab a bunch of books and dig a hole, etc? Yeah, pretty much. This was posted earlier in the thread, many many thanks to whomever did. Fascinating reading! This article embodies what I find so interesting about the late empire/late antiquity/whatever flavor-of-the-month periodization for 4th-7th century Rome that suits your fancy. Things were changing in ways that wealthy people thought it would be best to just bury a shitload of their wealth in the middle of a field or forest, only to be forgotten (intentionally or not). Talk of "decline" is out of favor for this period, but it definitely was a period of political, social and economic turmoil, and I'm intrigued by how people of the time responded to the changes going on around them. Grand Fromage and others earlier talked about how comparisons of Rome and America (or the British Empire) really don't stack up, and I agree for the most part. Nevertheless I can't help but feel that America, and much of the world, are undergoing a period of "transition" similar to 4th-7th century Rome, with rapid and profound changes in politics, economics and society, for better or worse. Heightens my interest in the period.
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Jul 12, 2012 13:21
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canuckanese posted:I thought about one like this too. It reminds me of an old Twilight Zone episode where this guy knows everything there is to know about the Napoleonic Wars, how they fought, order of battle, tactics, how to use weapons, etc. Magically he's transported back into the 1800s and he gets to live his dream of being in a Napoleonic army and...he gets shot in the first battle and has to have his leg amputated. For some reason that episode stuck with me and now when I imagine being sent back in time and joining an army I think "well poo poo I'd probably end up getting killed before I became anybody significant" That would be the main problem, sure. Or dying of some age-old disease which doesn't exist today and there isn't a vaccination to it.
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Jul 12, 2012 14:01
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DarkCrawler posted:That would be the main problem, sure. Or dying of some age-old disease which doesn't exist today and there isn't a vaccination to it. Given natural selection, I think people of European descent stand a good chance of being resistant to most diseases that ravaged Europe during that time - we are more likely to be related to the survivors of those plagues than to those who succumbed to them. Not necessarily and not with all diseases, but I find it just as possible that the traveller would bring with him the same kind of cause of pandemic that Europeans brought to the New World.
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Jul 12, 2012 14:30
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If I could back in time(and assuming I'm fluent in Latin for some reason), if there's one thing I could see I would love to watch the assemblies at work during the Republican era, plebeian tribunes trolling the Senate by mentioning ridiculous laws, a senator out somewhere in the distance heckling the assembly, truly an enlightened age of politics 
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Jul 12, 2012 15:40
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Grand Prize Winner posted:
I could do one on the early history of Islam, if people would be into that.
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Jul 12, 2012 16:58
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WrathofKhan posted:I could do one on the early history of Islam, if people would be into that. Uhh, yes. yes. yes yes yes.
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Jul 12, 2012 17:01
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WrathofKhan posted:I could do one on the early history of Islam, if people would be into that. Power of Muhammed compels you!
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Jul 12, 2012 17:10
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OK! I'm going out of town for the weekend, but I'll try to get something up next week.
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Jul 12, 2012 17:13
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