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The Oaks Card Club is out here in Emeryville and it's where I play more often than not (haven't played much at all recently, sort of life-owned right now with an unemployed GF  ) I live in the East Bay  They do the 1/2 100max and 2/4 200max games. It's a weird rule that I've never really seen anywhere else- I've seen spread limit games before but someone once told me that it was like an old city rule that was established when Oaks got their card room permit years ago. I'm not sure that that's entirely accurate but I have a vague recollection of someone telling me that. AmnesiaLab posted:One thing I would suggest in a loose-passive game like this is to make a small raise with small pocket pairs like this. If your room plays anything like mine, no one is ever folding to a raise of 5-7 after they limp. If you miss, no big deal. If you hit, extraction is much simpler. Half the time, hitting a set in a limped pot just leads to pulling a small pot unless someone gets there. This is a fantastic suggestion and I definitely think I will add this play. Thanks! TheKevman fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Jun 25, 2012 |
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Jun 25, 2012 08:27
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| # ? May 28, 2024 13:58 |
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yea the hand i mentioned took place at the oaks. the manager told me that the max bet rule is because of their license when i asked him about it. i did manage to get KK in versus AK at 2/4, took like 6 bets lol.
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Jun 25, 2012 22:59
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Cake 3k GTD $30 + $3 24 players left, top 5 get paid Blinds are 150/300 with 30 antes I'm BB with J  5 and a 9,260 stack.MP is 15/10 over 48 hands and opens for 655 with a 14,498 stack. I don't really have any info on him and I don't consider 48 hands to be a big enough sample size to make any decent generalizations. Folds to me, and I call getting almost 4:1 planning to c/r dry boards/hope to flop two pair/trips (e: flush draws) folding if I don't hit and get any resistance. (Is this terrible?) Pot is 1670, I have 8605 behind. Flop is 5  J 8 I check (assuming a ton of made hands/a-highs will c-bet this dry board and villain leads for 777. I let about 20 seconds fade before I min-raise to 1554. Villain insta-jams. This bet reeks of QQ/KK/AA AJ/AQ/AK to me. I don't think he'd jam a rainbow with a set here as he'd leave a ton of value on the table by doing so and most likely would flat my min raise hoping to stack my AJ/J8 hands on the turn. I know I can't discount sets entirely, but I don't have a ton of history with him here so I can't say that with certainty, just my thoughts. Hero? TheKevman fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jul 4, 2012 |
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Jul 3, 2012 01:38
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You have to call here. If he has 88 or JJ, well that sucks, but like you said so many other hands will jam on you here. You can't go around folding flopped two-pair on dry boards like this, particularly on Cake. Given how quick he jammed, I would put him on an overpair. I think a set takes a little more time to make sure he gets you to call.
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Jul 3, 2012 02:09
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I would karate chop my mouse through the table in order to call with as much force as possible
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Jul 3, 2012 05:21
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Stefan Prodan posted:I would karate chop my mouse through the table through my crotch and yell SUCK IT in order to call with as much force as possible
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Jul 3, 2012 06:34
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Haha I'm more interested in the pre analysis, I snapped it almost instantly and his T9o turned a queen  Was my preflop a little bit of a stretch or does that all line up? Had he raised larger I would have folded but given the price and the fact that I felt like I could (and should!) have stacked him if I hit, I felt it made the call ok.
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Jul 4, 2012 00:26
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I played the $100 at Binion's last Sunday -- fun tournament, mostly regulars and tourists like myself. Started with 15k, had about 32k at this hand. Guy with about 22k joined the table, was quiet for 4-5 hands before this one. I have AQ, in late position. Guy raises in middle position to about 3k. I call. Flop comes A73 rainbow, and he bets 4000. I call. At this point, I put him either on a pocket pair (10s thru K's) or a high A like myself. Maybe AQ or AJ. Possibly AK. I really thought he had the pocket pair though. Turn is a 10. He checks to me - I fire off a bet of 7000, and he puts the rest of his chips all-in. I'm pot committed now, and he turns over AA. Did I gently caress something up in this hand? I feel like his flop bet was a continuation bet of his preflop raise, and his check was a sign of weakness. Obviously I was dead wrong, but I'm wondering if I could have handled it better.
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Jul 4, 2012 00:31
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railroad terror posted:Did I gently caress something up in this hand? Not really, as it was played. I could maybe see checking the turn behind in some cases for pot control, but I think this is basically a mini-cooler. If you were deeper there's a lot more argument to folding to his turn check-jam, but with only 1k chips behind you can't fold. Preflop you could have 3-bet and then folded when he 4-bet, otherwise it's hard to get away from that kind of flop when you're that short. Also, wrong thread (though I think the MTT/SNG thread is unofficially dead)
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Jul 4, 2012 00:37
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Pre you have ~32k. What are the blinds? Assuming it's 500/1000 and he opens for 3x pot is ~7500 and you're now at 29k. After c-bet and call you have 25k and the pot is 15.5k. I could be wrong, but I don't necessarily see a problem with checking it back on the turn. TPGK is either crushed by AK/77/33/TT or way ahead of his JJ/QQ/KK or a weaker ace type hand. But how many weaker aces are really out there? Aside from AJo/AJs I don't really think he makes the raise with any non-suited A lower than maybe AT, so there are only a few weaker Aces that you're getting value from. If you check it back he may fire with an under-pair again on non-threatening rivers and if he checks you can almost always bet small for value and get him to look you up with worse. Given stacks and structure though I don't think it's that bad at all, though.
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Jul 4, 2012 01:04
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WampaLord posted:Not really, as it was played. I could maybe see checking the turn behind in some cases for pot control, but I think this is basically a mini-cooler. If you were deeper there's a lot more argument to folding to his turn check-jam, but with only 1k chips behind you can't fold. i'm guessing blinds were 500/1000 btw?
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Jul 7, 2012 13:58
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Dr. Eat posted:can check back turn to get him to get him to valuebet rivers since this board isn't scary. What hands do you think he value bets on the river, exactly? Edit: I'm guessing somewhere in the range of TT-KK? Preflop: $22k effective stacks Turn: ~15.5k in the pot, 15k effective left behind I suppose the argument is that for every 4-5% of the time we get stacked from letting a pocket pair get there, we expect villain to either value (or just spazz) shove river with a TT-KK hand? Maybe it becomes a lot closer when we start including lower pocket pairs that will never put more money in without hitting a set, but we could also induce other spazz shoves from K/Q-high hands if we check all the way through perhaps? Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jul 7, 2012 |
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Jul 7, 2012 17:53
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^^yea or worse Ax. i pretty much never have problem with letting someone peel to two outs if we're giving him that value range... i would also obviously bet the river if he does check...there are plenty of hands that will sigh-call us on river given how we played the hand (TT-KK, AJ will jam for us)
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Jul 7, 2012 21:14
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Dr. Eat posted:^^yea or worse Ax. Dr. Eat posted:if we're giving him that value range... K/Q rivers might have JJ/TT check/fold when they might decide to check/get it in on the turn, but it probably doesn't make a huge difference Dr. Eat posted:i would also obviously bet the river if he does check...there are plenty of hands that will sigh-call us on river given how we played the hand (TT-KK, AJ will jam for us) Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jul 8, 2012 |
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Jul 8, 2012 00:59
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Blinky2099 posted:I don't think giving someone a value range that includes all TT-KK combos is even close to correct, also you did mention that we give him chance to spazz w K-hi or Q-hi which is obviously awesome and wasn't even something i was thinking of at the time. quote:but I'm sure it's more than 4% of the time he'll shove river for whatever reason (value, or "because I don't want to call a bet", or whatever fishy logic he decides) quote:K/Q rivers might have JJ/TT check/fold when they might decide to check/get it in on the turn, but it probably doesn't make a huge difference though like, if we have aggro or bad image then this is mandatory bet/call off on turn.
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Jul 8, 2012 04:00
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What kind of balance should I have when opening in late position against different players' blind defense tendencies? For example, if a player is frequently flatting from the blinds, it's "good" for us because we have position, preflop aggression, and he's going to hit fewer premium flops since he's calling so often. On the other hand, opening someone who is constantly folding their blinds is obviously good as well. I don't really understand the proper way to adjust my opening hands since both ends of the spectrum seem like they're good for us. Is it more of a flop cbet % adjustment rather than pfr % adjustment?
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Jul 10, 2012 23:23
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To me the primary difference is size. If someone folds too much you want to mostly be minraising but if they call a ton then fold you want to make it as big as you can that they will call. There are a number of fish I've regularly made it 3 or 4x and they still call then fold flop.
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Jul 11, 2012 02:40
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http://weaktight.com/4838207 Found $12 left in my account. This is NL4 Villain is 27/2 over 40 hands Thoughts on bet-sizing and river line? I figure draws are a huge part of his range here, so we should let him bluff his missed flush draws. I think we only lose value from low Ax one-pair hands which there are obviously very few combos of. Shoving river to get value out of 2p/sets make sense? Or are we just valuetowning vs one-pair+gutshot type hands that show up here? Edit: Also, is this standard? I don't know how to play this deep halp http://weaktight.com/4838372 I don't think QQ barrels turn, so AA KK JJ 55 44 KJs have us beat. I don't know how much air he can possibly have here that he 3-barrels with. Villain is 34/14/2 over 93hands Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 11, 2012 21:22
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Anyone down to trade sweat sessions? I know I still have a ton of leaks and some should be pretty obvious to everyone but me. I also feel I play alot better when I have to explain myself. For the record I'm a 25NL 1bb/100 rake back clown (and thats with bonus's).
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Jul 11, 2012 22:47
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Vil is is tightish raising 60% SB calling 28% BB and 3b 12%. Vil only folds on to flop and turn cbets 30%. Kinda weak tight station. He's probably playing this way because I'm drunk and 3bing 64% while opening 95% in SB. PokerStars - $0.50 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com Hero (BB): $94.81 SB: $198.24 SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50 Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 5 ASB raises to $1.50, Hero raises $3.50 to $5, SB calls $3.50 Flop: ($10.00, 2 players) 9 5 AHero bets $9.50, SB calls $9.50 Turn: ($29.00, 2 players) 5 Hero bets $16.50, SB calls $16.50 River: ($62.00, 2 players) 9 Hero bets $63.81 and is all-in Easy river jam correct? If I check I have to call and he'll check back with a bunch of Ax hands that probably would've called my jam. AARO fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jul 15, 2012 |
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Jul 15, 2012 18:02
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Terrible river, but yeah, ship it. There are a lot of aces in his range, and from the sound of it, your image is poo poo, so he's gonna try to snap you off regularly.
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Jul 15, 2012 19:32
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Arrrrrrrrr-in!
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Jul 16, 2012 00:14
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TheAbortionator posted:Anyone down to trade sweat sessions? I know I still have a ton of leaks and some should be pretty obvious to everyone but me. I also feel I play alot better when I have to explain myself. I don't like sweating as much as HH review but I'd do either. Playing 9max micros just to practice for live $1/2 and $2/5 9-max. ksnewland@gmail.com, PM, or skype ksnewland
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Jul 16, 2012 20:21
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Folding KK Pre ITT http://weaktight.com/4852801
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Jul 17, 2012 18:47
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Folding KK Pre ITT nice fold imo
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Jul 18, 2012 07:15
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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, if I could do that, it would be in a spot like that, but I just don't think I could do that and be right nearly enough at the level I play, so I don't do it.
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Jul 18, 2012 08:51
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Baller fold.Blinky2099 posted:I don't like sweating as much as HH review but I'd do either. Playing 9max micros just to practice for live $1/2 and $2/5 9-max. ksnewland@gmail.com, PM, or skype ksnewland I've never really took much time to look at my own hand histories. I know this is terrible and I'd like to start doing more poker home work instead of just reading easy game over and over mixed with a bit of coaching. So I will go play hundred hands RIGHT THIS MINUTE then review the results and type up my thinking on any significant hand then ship the results to your e-mail. TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jul 18, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 16:22
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TheAbortionator posted:Baller fold. Sounds great. I've been at casinos and home games just about every day but I'll get back to you on Skype soon, or emailed hands if you want to start with that.
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Jul 18, 2012 22:45
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Welp, I think it's only fitting that I post one where I didn't fold KK incorrectly... CO: $8.03 Hero (BTN): $10.13 SB: $1.42 BB: $14.40 UTG: $4.25 MP: $4.00 SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05 Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has K Kfold, fold, CO raises to $0.15, Hero raises to $0.40, SB calls $0.38, fold, CO raises to $8.03 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.63, SB calls $1.02 and is all-in SB has been playing 71/48 and CO has been playing 20/18/14 and seems to be a reg. I'm not even worried about SB but CO only has to do this with QQ some percentage of the time (and KK) for me to breakeven on this play right? MP: $4.14 CO: $9.44 BTN: $7.00 SB: $6.01 Hero (BB): $6.85 UTG: $4.84 SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05 Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has A 7fold, MP raises to $0.15, fold, fold, SB calls $0.13, Hero calls $0.10 Flop: ($0.45, 3 players) A 7 9SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets $0.25, SB raises to $0.65, Hero calls $0.65, MP calls $0.40 I debated calling or raising here, I think calling is better because I can probably get more value from heart draws and other aces on the turn if another heart doesn't hit Turn: ($2.40, 3 players) K SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, MP calls $1.75, SB raises to $5.21 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.46, MP calls $1.59 and is all-in I don't think SB will do this with just a pair of aces but I think there is enough heart draws and I'm getting good enough odds to just call here. Thoughts?
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Jul 19, 2012 00:08
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Want to minimize your mistakes? Never fold KK preflop. If you think you're going to get yourself into a situation where if villain reraises your next raise and you're going to have to fold, just flat. If you are under 200bb, never fold KK preflop. Hand2 looks alright but I probably 3! the flop, cause flatting looks really strong anyway so you might as well put some more money in.
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Jul 19, 2012 01:27
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I'm struggling playing post-flop in an early position specifically when I have an okay hand (middle pair or A high on a dry board). I usually play 6-max and therefore a bit looser than 9. For example, I may have an A high and a dry board flops and the villain gets the middle pair. I check the flop and so does he, so I assume most likely he does not have anything. Turn gives nothing good either so I raise maybe half the pot and he calls. Because the opponents are playing so passive the read I get is that I should be beating him. Any tips on this lack of info I'm able to get?
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Jul 19, 2012 07:20
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Nifty posted:For example, I may have an A high and a dry board flops and the villain gets the middle pair. I check the flop... Why aren't you C-betting dry flops with A high?
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Jul 19, 2012 07:50
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Ranma posted:Hand2 looks alright but I probably 3! the flop, cause flatting looks really strong anyway so you might as well put some more money in. We would be happy to get it in in this situation, but what should our plan be for the turn if my raise gets called by either or both of the other players? I think we're betting for sure if the turn is not a heart, but if a heart peels then do we just fold to a shove? Also I thought more about the turn and I realized there isn't as much flush draws in SB's range since the A already came up. So I just tried to put a range down for the villain as an exercise, do you guys think this is about right?code:
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Jul 19, 2012 08:04
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Nifty posted:I'm struggling playing post-flop in an early position specifically when I have an okay hand (middle pair or A high on a dry board). I usually play 6-max and therefore a bit looser than 9. This question is too vague. You need to play more hands and read some books.
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Jul 19, 2012 09:52
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Nifty posted:I'm struggling playing post-flop in an early position specifically when I have an okay hand (middle pair or A high on a dry board). I usually play 6-max and therefore a bit looser than 9. As ZeroStar says, it's too vague. If you can provide some specific hand examples, you may get a better response.
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Jul 19, 2012 23:29
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TheAbortionator posted:So I will go play hundred hands RIGHT THIS MINUTE then review the results and type up my thinking on any significant hand then ship the results to your e-mail.
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Jul 19, 2012 23:32
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Yeah, seriously. Anything that brings some actual worthwhile discussion and analysis back to PITR would be welcome.
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Jul 20, 2012 10:20
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Well here is 2 hands from the session I'm not to sure about. Hand One Villain was 17/12 and was 3/3 for folding to 3 bets. I was 3-betting him with with slightly below my calling range because so far he seemed to favor folding over calling. I will note that my calling range was way looser in this spot on account on a 30/10 fishy guy in the bb. Usually when I see people flat 3 bets its a hand that isn't good enough enough to 4-bet get it in but really doesn't want to 4-bet/fold. So this is pretty arbitrary but its the best I can come up with without seeing any showdowns so far but I figure his range to be 88-jjs, qq AQ KQs, possibly KQ or QJs. So we flop pretty drat good with a FD middle pair, but the flop also smacks the poo poo out of his range. We do have a blocker to middle set. I was alright at the time with bet/shoving on the flop to collect dead money so that was my plan. My problem in hindsight with how I played the hand is that I don't really have any fold equity after I get called on the flop. I fired the turn because the king hit and its a scare card and I still have equity from the pair + flush draw. But even pairing the 7 or tripping up with the 10 seems like it has terrible reverse implied odds. PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 3 Hero (SB): $26.25 BB: $24.32 UTG: $18.62 MP: $25.60 CO: $28.10 BTN: $25.00 Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25 Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 7:spade: T:spade: fold, fold, CO raises to $0.75, fold, Hero raises to $2.00, fold, CO calls $1.25 Flop: ($4.25, 2 players) J:spade: T:club: 3:spade: Hero bets $2.50, CO calls $2.50 Turn: ($9.25, 2 players) K:heart: Hero bets $5.00, CO raises to $23.60 and is all-in, fold ---------------------------------------------------------------- Villain is the 30/10 fishy guy who was kind enough to fold in the first hand who is now on the button. He seemed on the passive side but on the river after every draw missed getting almost 3-1 am I good enough often enough to call here? I didn't have any notes about him betting missed draws or anything of the sort. But I did have a note that he liked to play pretty much everything remotely suited/connected. I had seen him call on the button earlier with 4-7dd. That adds a tons of missed FDS to his range, but also a bunch of 10s. Him checking back the turn on a draw heavy board makes the trips less believable. PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 3 Hero (CO): $25.16 BTN: $10.93 SB: $19.82 BB: $25.00 UTG: $29.52 MP: $29.18 SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25 Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 7:heart: 8:spade: fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, BTN calls $0.75, SB calls $0.65, fold Flop: ($2.50, 3 players) T:spade: 5:spade: 8:diamond: SB checks, Hero bets $1.25, BTN calls $1.25, SB calls $1.25 Turn: ($6.25, 3 players) T:heart: SB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks River: ($6.25, 3 players) 4:club: SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $3.75, fold, Hero calls $3.75 ------------------------------------------------- Man, typing out hands is alot of work. TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jul 20, 2012 |
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Jul 20, 2012 18:09
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In hand one, it seems that our villain is likely to play fit or fold, considering how he has folded to your 3-bets in the past. Someone more comfortable with playing in 3-bet pots is likely going to call more. After he calls the flop, I am highly wary. I don't mind barreling to see how it plays out since we haven't had a clash like this with our villain before, but I don't honestly expect it to work because I don't think he's floating nearly enough on the flop for us to have fold equity. There is the chance that your 3-betting has convinced him to make a stand, but that likelihood goes way down when he raises the turn. You've bet two streets in a 3-bet pot. Even if you're been aggressive beforehand, all indications are that you might be willing to get it in here, and he's not worried about that. Still, I don't mind barreling. It might buy us a cheap river, I like the bet sizing, and we're developing a better read on the villain. I'm okay with erring on the side of aggression, so long as we know when to pack it in and fold. In hand two, I barrel this turn all day long. You raised pre and c-bet the flop. Top pair is all over your range. But when you check this turn in a multiway pot, you're basically holding up a giant sign that says you don't have a ten. I think barreling here takes this pot down most of the time, so go ahead and fire. As played, yeah, a river call is reasonable. Our villain isn't especially bluffy, but if he's at all paying attention to other players actions, he's gotta be thinking so much weakness has been shown that a bluff might take it down. Nevermind that a bluff doesn't make a lot of sense on this messy board; he checked behind when the ten peeled on the turn, and he can't represent a small two pair because the tens on the board counterfeit that. He might bet just thinking no one can call. Then again, he's passive enough from the sound of it that it could be a horribly slowplayed hand, but I'd snap him off here and find out. Saying he was "on the passive side" doesn't mean he can't show some aggression in a spot like this. He could also be making a value bet with a hand like A8, thinking the way the hand played out that no one can have a ten. Honestly, though, I think most guys "on the passive side" are less likely to make value bets in this spot than to bluff. If a passive type has a little something here, he's generally happy to get the free showdown. I think he has more hands here that he bluffs with than hands that he value bets with, and that makes it a pretty simple call. You'll see him show up with a lot of spades here. It's cheap, and you don't have to be right all that often to show a profit.
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Jul 20, 2012 20:00
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| # ? May 28, 2024 13:58 |
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it's pretty likely that you should just fold pre in both of these hands
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Jul 21, 2012 02:50
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