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All of these horror stories make me so glad I live in Saskatchewan, Canada. Our post rules, and the few things I've gotten from the States I've had delivered through USPS and they get here just fine in decent time.
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Jul 19, 2012 01:47
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UnmaskedGremlin posted:Him: "The phone bill and the taxes I pay go towards that!!!" So, his tax dollars paid for government to contract to those businesses to build the physical lines and roads that are used to support his business. I mean, those are his words. He's so loving close to connecting it...I hope.
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Jul 19, 2012 01:50
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myron cope posted:Seriously though. The USPS is an independent agency. The government doesn't "run" it. (Mostly.) Pointing to anything the USPS does and saying it's an example of what the government does that is bad (or good, for that matter) is wrong. That's not exactly accurate. USPS employees are Federal Employees and Congress can control the USPS as much as they want. They're independent in that they don't belong under any of the Departments, and they're separate from the rest of the budget. They're expected to generate enough revenue to carry out their duties. But they're still a government agency.
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Jul 19, 2012 03:03
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Sarion posted:That's not exactly accurate. USPS employees are Federal Employees and Congress can control the USPS as much as they want. They're independent in that they don't belong under any of the Departments, and they're separate from the rest of the budget. They're expected to generate enough revenue to carry out their duties. But they're still a government agency. Ok, but ARE TAX DOLLARS  don't fund it. Directly. Mostly. Usually.
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Jul 19, 2012 03:13
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I told a friend that the USPS is to provide a service, not makes profits. I got a "Whaddah mean there's no profits!? Every business needs profits!" He couldn't connect that it was a service, not a business. I also was telling him that they are faster and cheaper than UPS for small packages (2-3 days across country vs 6-7), but he said he "firmly believes in you get what you pay for." Again it is cheaper because it is a service, not a business. If he was talking about one business vs another, I might agree. I live in California, and it seems that everything I buy comes from the east coast. You bet your rear end I choose USPS if it is an option. I just recently shipped a camera to a fellow goon via USPS who lives in New York. The tracking info said it would be there in three days. It got there in TWO. This happens frequently, and I don't think I've ever seen UPS deliver early. Also you can get boxes delivered to you for loving free, a big rear end stack of boxes for future shipments, free. Do most people turn a blind eye to how awesome the Post Office actually is? Aeka 2.0 fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 03:17
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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The USPS doing a good job does not fit the narrative, and any evidence to the contrary must be ignored.
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Jul 19, 2012 03:37
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Every time I need to go to a post office I make sure to tell the clerk how much I love and appreciate the USPS. They do great things for this country, and deserve to have that recognized every now and then.
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Jul 19, 2012 04:06
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It's fun blowing their minds by pointing out that the Post Office is required to exist by the Constitution. For a document they claim to worship, they sure are bad at knowing what's in it.
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Jul 19, 2012 04:10
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Also post offices are mentioned in the CONSTITUTION so how can anybody hate them? e: god dammit 
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Jul 19, 2012 04:13
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myron cope posted:Also post offices are mentioned in the  Mah constitution talks about three things: God, Guns, and ARE FREEDUMS! It ain't some libturd nancy boy essay about allowing taxes, welfare, and the post office!
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Jul 19, 2012 04:24
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Oh hey, Fed Ex could lose a bunch of money because their #1 customer, USPS, is cutting back. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/jul/16/fedex-faces-potential-loss-us-postal-service-busin/ Also, the USPS has had a 700 million dollar profit since 2008, but the government-imposed retirement funding is what's breaking them.
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Jul 19, 2012 04:32
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Anubis posted:The new system went in place about 2 months ago. I used to love our DMV system, with the texting in and reduced waiting but it's seriously hosed right now. Also, normal drivers license stuff is still OK, I believe. Only the vehicle registration part has been hosed over. Fun fact, that vehicle registration bit is currently hosed over because they installed a software package made by 3M, a proud member of the free market who sold Kansas the package and then basically cut-and-run. The software completely poo poo itself for two or three days in which nothing could be processed and 3M claims it has no liability on the matter. A friend of mine then cited DMV registration woes as an example of why we absolutely can't give the government more power  And hello from Shawnee
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Jul 19, 2012 05:01
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Aeka 2.0 posted:I told a friend that the USPS is to provide a service, not makes profits. I got a "Whaddah mean there's no profits!? Every business needs profits!" He couldn't connect that it was a service, not a business. This hammering of everything into the "business" framework is maddening. It might be best to take the one government agency/service that right wingers fetishize, and ask them "what's the profit margin on the U.S. military?"
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Jul 19, 2012 05:33
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Zwabu posted:This hammering of everything into the "business" framework is maddening. It might be best to take the one government agency/service that right wingers fetishize, and ask them "what's the profit margin on the U.S. military?" I've never gotten a good argument for why government ought to be run like a business, except that "business is efficient and government is not." But business can be horribly inefficient, too, and if it's profitable you can bet your rear end it'll be horribly inefficient. I can't imagine anyone's life being so filled with great interactions with businesses that they can't imagine business being perfectly efficient...
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Jul 19, 2012 05:50
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I've said it before in these threads, but anyone who claims that government is always less efficient than business has clearly never worked for a large business.
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Jul 19, 2012 06:32
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The Rokstar posted:I've said it before in these threads, but anyone who claims that government is always less efficient than business has clearly never worked for a large business. That just means that government is even less efficient that you thought 
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Jul 19, 2012 06:49
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Zwabu posted:This hammering of everything into the "business" framework is maddening. It might be best to take the one government agency/service that right wingers fetishize, and ask them "what's the profit margin on the U.S. military?" If they cut the military Proctor and Gambles profits would plummet thanks to a rapid falloff in sales of Kleenex and lotion in the red states.
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Jul 19, 2012 07:18
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Aeka 2.0 posted:I told a friend that the USPS is to provide a service, not makes profits. I got a "Whaddah mean there's no profits!? Every business needs profits!" He couldn't connect that it was a service, not a business. Frame it in terms of other services and maybe he'll get it. Does the police department need to make a profit? The fire department? Public schools? Public libraries? What about the department of transportation - should every single road be a toll road so they can make their profits? Lowering costs by charging money is reasonable in some instances - small fees for getting a driver's license replaced, parking fines, etc. - but these need to be balanced against the benefits (we don't charge anything for public school or public libraries, because the benefit of a universally educated populace is huge). Even for those services where there are sources of income, nobody expects profitability. Except with the post office, of course. Which is actually profitable, as others have noted, once you take into account t the absurd prefunded pensions requirement. (I should note though that it doesn't require "75 years" worth of pensions to be prefunded; it requires pensions for every existing employee to be prefunded. Someone got overzealous with the "but if they hire an 18 year old they're going to have to fund some of his pension 75 years in advance!!" crap.)
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Jul 19, 2012 09:25
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bairfanx posted:A high school friend who seems to have gone off-the-rails libertarian since graduating shared this on his facebook today: What I love is how the most sure-fire way to recognize a conservative website/youtube video/blog is that they don't allow comments because they'd be inundated in corrections to all the bullshit they are claiming.
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Jul 19, 2012 10:17
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UnmaskedGremlin posted:
He's being dishonest and illogical here. He keeps arguing that you can't count things the government handles like roads because he paid taxes for those and only "free" things should count, but here he's balking at paying those things by complaining about the government taxing him. He's trying to rob the government of credit for building roads and providing other public goods, but he's also arguing against having to actually pay for these things. He can't honestly use those two arguments together, it's unfair to take credit for something while also trying to weasel out of the very thing you're using to justify taking credit for it (i.e. taxes). There are numerous more examples of benefits provided by public goods that are essential to a working society and without which your "friend" would not have been able to build his business. If he eats food and takes any medications, prescription or OTC, he has the FDA to thank. If he drinks water and breathes air, he has the EPA to thank. If he uses a telephone, he has the FTC to thank for breaking up telecom monopolies who would have made it financially difficult, if not impossible, for him to make all those phone calls he used to start his business (e.g. price fixing). If his business is incorporated, he has the government to thank for providing a legal arrangement that is financially beneficial and has numerous other benefits (e.g. legal liabilities). If he drives a car, he has the government to thank for building roads, regulating licensing to keep bad drivers off the road, providing police officers to ticket and arrest dangerous drivers (e.g. DWIs), etc. If his business has any kind of a building, he has the government to thank for building inspectors that prevent it from being poorly built, dangerous, and financially burdensome (e.g. repairs to fix what a shoddy builder screwed up). Just because your "friend" pays taxes that go towards these things doesn't mean he paid for these things. The costs of these things go far, far beyond what he pays in taxes, even for just what he uses (e.g. even the highways and roads he uses cost orders of magnitude more than he will ever pay in taxes in his entire lifetime). This is where the "you didn't build this" part comes in, he's relying on other people paying taxes as well to provide the sufficient amount of funding for these things to get built, so he can't honestly claim that he built his business on his own with no help from other people or the government. jojoinnit posted:No but he did say in the same discussion (to someone else) that its a shame Ron Paul is on the wrong side of crazy on some issues because he'd like to vote for him. That's how you know someone is stupid and ignorant, they don't realize Ron Paul is on the wrong side of all issues. They have only heard the soundbite form of Ron Paul's platform and haven't actually seen his entire stance on a given issue. For example, people love that he's against the Drug War, but the problem is that he's only against the federal Drug War. Paul is perfectly fine with the states continuing with their 50 separate drug wars, which result in minimal changes to the status quo. Sure, states with medicinal marijuana laws won't have to worry about dispensaries getting shut down or growers getting arrested, but that still leaves dozens of other drugs illegal in nearly every state, which will result in very little change for the average person or the prison-industrial complex. Similar amounts of time, money, effort, and freedom will still be lost to a draconian legal structure even though the federal government won't be part of it. jojoinnit posted:Looks like we're done here: So, he doesn't even know what a circle is? Seriously, this guy is a moron who doesn't want to argue in good faith. What he sees and experiences is not empirical evidence or suggestive of a larger pattern anywhere beyond that one experience. He isn't supporting his arguments with anything approaching evidence and just sticks to conservative canned arguments, so it's probably a good time to defriend this guy and his lovely wife. UnmaskedGremlin posted:Him: Once again, no quotes, no citations, no references, no evidence, no research, AND he's balking at your direct quotation of the president's speech because it refutes his entire argument. This guy will never change his mind because his opinions exist before he gets any evidence. He's only going to look for evidence and sources that already confirm his a priori beliefs and ignore or denigrate anything to the contrary. Nothing you say will ever change his mind. Leon Einstein posted:The mail carriers by my house will park their mail trucks and walk around the entire block hand delivering mail and then ending up back at their truck to move onto their next area. How in the gently caress would driving up to one house, parking the truck, getting out, walking to the mail slot, dropping off the mail, going back to the truck, driving 10 feet, and repeating the process for the entire block be more efficient? Seriously, this guy is a loving dumbshit. As long as they don't leave the truck running, doesn't it save gas, too? Unless there is substantial difference in delivery time, you're not going to see much savings in labor costs either, but I'm open to any actual empirical research into efficiency, just not "I'm a regular business owner, so I have insights that you leeches and your government sugar daddy are blind to." bairfanx posted:A high school friend who seems to have gone off-the-rails libertarian since graduating shared this on his facebook today: The internet really is the best loving argument to use against these people. Private industry balked at funding the internet because they didn't see any profit incentives there, they just thought it was some fad for uber nerds, academics, and the military. The government stepped in and funded its development and businesses eventually realized how awesome it is and started using it to create billions of dollars worth of new economic output. Without the government, there wouldn't be any Facebook, Amazon, Google, or many other things these people take for granted. Ghost of Reagan Past posted:But the military is different! As another poster already noted, Medicare has far lower administrative costs than almost any private insurer. Some of the small group and individual plans at private insurers can cost up to 33 cents out of every healthcare dollar spent, whereas Medicare is less than 6 cents per dollar. It's simple economics of scale. peak debt posted:What I love is how the most sure-fire way to recognize a conservative website/youtube video/blog is that they don't allow comments because they'd be inundated in corrections to all the bullshit they are claiming. And the rebuttals are so easy. Virgin Galactic? = aerospace industry funded by military spending, aerospace research funded by government grants (the fundamental research in every field is almost always done through government funding because it generally doesn't have direct profit outlet even if companies can use it for later profitable research), industry regulations to provide for safe skies, etc. Build-a-Bear? = FTC regulations for safety so you don't get cancer causing products used in the bears and accessories, especially in poo poo manufactured in countries like China with insufficient safety regulations. Baseball player? = Name a player who didn't play on his high school baseball team. I'll wait. Aren't little league teams funded by their communities as well (whether directly or through charitably selling stuff)? Spinal Tap? = Rules! Rome? = Did a private company build the Coliseum? Does anyone seriously think there weren't taxes to pay for stuff in Rome or that the Roman government didn't build the majority of the important structures? Death Star? = It's a military project built by the government and funded through taxes. How is that an argument against Obama? Jurassic Park? = Yep, none of those scientists went to public schools and none of the fundamental research was done at public universities through government grants. Peace Prize? = Not even sure what the gently caress this means. Sand Castles? = I'm guessing those kids sure like their beach not contaminated by corporations who just felt like dumping waste there or just didn't give a gently caress if they accidentally ruined it. Why don't you ask people on the Gulf Coast how they like it when corporations are left unencumbered by effective government regulation?
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Jul 19, 2012 12:31
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Bruce Leroy posted:So, he doesn't even know what a circle is?  Anyway I won't defriend, I just won't bother arguing. He's one of those people who're actually really nice and good, which is why his political stance is so surprising.
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Jul 19, 2012 13:03
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Bruce Leroy posted:Once again, no quotes, no citations, no references, no evidence, no research, There were so many gaping holes that I left alone, just because it almost felt too easy, but everyone here is spot on with their points. I thought it got fun though, when I asked him for a source for stats he spewed: Him: Seth, you are being very charitable towards the speech. At least half the country and 100% of small business owners find the speech and in particular his comment and I quote ""If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."" to be rhetoric and insulting! It is not just me!!! Also, I can appreciate how you feel and I am sure many other people have felt the same way but if you were a small business owner you would very quickly find that the policies of Mr. Obama do not help small business they only hinder it!!! It is very Magnanimous to want the world and all the people to help each other and I get that and I do that in everyday life, but please let the Government worry about upholding the Constitution and to please stop trying to become a Nanny State, we don't need it! Me: Once again, if you take one sentence out of context, its not going to have its original meaning. And I'd like a source for those two stats, I don't think they're anywhere near that high for either number. Also, lol infrastructure is a nanny state ok. Him: I am sure there will be polling out very soon supporting my contention on public opinion and small business owner opinion on what Mr. Obama said!!! Me: So the answer to the 50% and 100% is no then? HiM: Wrong, it's wait and see!!! Zogby, Rasmuessen, and PPP are polling it now!!! Me: So once again, without an actual source, the answer is no. And then, once he gave up, even though I didn't even really pounce on a lot of stuff, a few hours later some woman he knows posts this: "I don't know you Seth, but I really like you. ALOT. I went to elementary school, well 1st thorough 8th grade with Leon. It's been enjoyable reading this debate. Sorry Leon, in my opinion Seth wins." Wasn't even trying to win, but hey, I felt good.
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Jul 19, 2012 14:08
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bairfanx posted:A high school friend who seems to have gone off-the-rails libertarian since graduating shared this on his facebook today: What's most precious about this site is they have one referring to Jonas Salk and the Polio Vaccine.  I'm pretty sure Mr. Salk would disagree greatly with the current tea party argument of "gently caress you, got mine. I did everything on my own!"
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Jul 19, 2012 14:42
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Boondock Saint posted:What's most precious about this site is they have one referring to Jonas Salk and the Polio Vaccine. Salk was able to create his vaccine because of a large charitable effort from The March of Dimes, which was founded by President Roosevelt. Also, the radio industry, a heavily government developed business, provided them with free air-time to help increase volunteering and donations. He most certainly did not "build that" vaccine on his own.
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Jul 19, 2012 15:42
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More from Erkenntnis' adventures from around the internet!quote:Mitts is as clean as milk toast. The guy literally is a choir boy. His resume is success after success, building business's, running companys, a popular Gov. in a liberal bastion, and his family life is Perfect. There literally are NO ghosts in this man's closet. He will be bringing down the hammer in due time. All he has to do is discuss Obama's actions, his broken promises and the economic colapse. He will also continue telling people how he figures to CHANGE this mess. I was on Cains wagon, but he dissappointed his folks and now, I've shifted to the next best man. I really think Romney has an ability to be Reaganess. The mess we have now is killing us. Time for a change. This man is not a poe, I promise.
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Jul 19, 2012 15:48
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Bruce Leroy posted:Baseball player? = Name a player who didn't play on his high school baseball team. I'll wait. Aren't little league teams funded by their communities as well (whether directly or through charitably selling stuff)? Also, doesn't Major League Baseball have some weird relationship with the government, like they're a Government approved monopoly or something? Not really a huge sports fan, so I could be wrong here. And as for Rome, it would seem like the famous Roman Roads would be the perfect counter point.
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Jul 19, 2012 15:51
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Pead posted:Salk was able to create his vaccine because of a large charitable effort from The March of Dimes, which was founded by President Roosevelt. Also, the radio industry, a heavily government developed business, provided them with free air-time to help increase volunteering and donations. He most certainly did not "build that" vaccine on his own. Let's not forget the best part of all of this. After he made the vaccine, he made sure it was distributed to anyone who wanted it. He didn't patent it. He didn't profit from it. When someone asked him about a patent for it, he said... quote:There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?
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Jul 19, 2012 16:00
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Pead posted:Salk was able to create his vaccine because of a large charitable effort from The March of Dimes, which was founded by President Roosevelt. Also, the radio industry, a heavily government developed business, provided them with free air-time to help increase volunteering and donations. He most certainly did not "build that" vaccine on his own. Which leads me to mention Henrietta Lacks, the woman who saved the world. Basically she was a poor and orphaned tobacco farmer who ended up getting cervical cancer and dying in 1951. Doctors happened to notice something strange about her cells though, where most human cells in labs divide a few times then die out, hers just kept dividing and growing over and over endlessly. Because of this, they were able to speed up research many many times over and develop cures for polio, cancer treatments, aids and tons of other stuff. A woman who society shoved into the only segregated hospital in the area, ended up being one of the most important people to modern medicine. When we as a society fail to find the worth and value in human lives for any reason we fail to reap the unknowable and unspeakable benefits that those people can contribute to our society. It really pains me when I see people actively fighting against that concept.
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Jul 19, 2012 16:01
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Zwabu posted:This hammering of everything into the "business" framework is maddening. It might be best to take the one government agency/service that right wingers fetishize, and ask them "what's the profit margin on the U.S. military?" Rather good actually! Oh, you mean for the military. 
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Jul 19, 2012 16:06
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Anubis posted:Which leads me to mention Henrietta Lacks, the woman who saved the world. Basically she was a poor and orphaned tobacco farmer who ended up getting cervical cancer and dying in 1951. Doctors happened to notice something strange about her cells though, where most human cells in labs divide a few times then die out, hers just kept dividing and growing over and over endlessly. Because of this, they were able to speed up research many many times over and develop cures for polio, cancer treatments, aids and tons of other stuff. I had never heard of this but god drat, what a simultaneously horrible and incredible story. I can see the right wing spin coming though: racism is actually good because if she were treated like a human being with rights they would have never taken cells without her consent.
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Jul 19, 2012 17:22
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Nostrum posted:I had never heard of this but god drat, what a simultaneously horrible and incredible story. I can see the right wing spin coming though: racism is actually good because if she were treated like a human being with rights they would have never taken cells without her consent.
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Jul 19, 2012 17:42
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 Where to even begin?
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Jul 19, 2012 18:07
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Guilty Spork posted:
This is part of a viral campaign to overturn the Constitution, right?
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Jul 19, 2012 18:09
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Guilty Spork posted:
I would just start with: Jay Leno said this in 2004 about the Bush Administration. And leave it at that.
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Jul 19, 2012 18:14
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Iraqi officials puzzled long into the night over who to put in charge of the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
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Jul 19, 2012 19:12
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XyloJW posted:Iraqi officials puzzled long into the night over who to put in charge of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Maybe Pakistan would get more use out of it then?
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Jul 19, 2012 19:22
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Radish posted:Maybe Pakistan would get more use out of it then? Well, they do have some pretty serious reservations about Indians.
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Jul 19, 2012 19:24
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Sarion posted:Also, doesn't Major League Baseball have some weird relationship with the government, like they're a Government approved monopoly or something? Not really a huge sports fan, so I could be wrong here. Yes, but it's really more of a legal technicality that keeps them running. Each team is an independent business, and so they normally wouldn't be allowed to collude and do things like have a draft and trade players around, but because a sports league doesn't really work without such things, they're allowed to do it. It's why the NFL players couldn't sue the league during the lockout until the union decertified. One of the reasons the NFL monopoly is allowed is because the players are unionized, too, so it's a players union and a league, not a giant entity and a bunch of individuals. MLB's legal standing goes back a lot further, because baseball has been around forever, but every sports league is, in effect, a protected monopoly.
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Jul 19, 2012 19:59
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Nostrum posted:I had never heard of this but god drat, what a simultaneously horrible and incredible story. I can see the right wing spin coming though: racism is actually good because if she were treated like a human being with rights they would have never taken cells without her consent. When we're all dead and gone, HeLa will go on.
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Jul 19, 2012 20:25
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UnmaskedGremlin posted:There were so many gaping holes that I left alone, just because it almost felt too easy, but everyone here is spot on with their points. I thought it got fun though, when I asked him for a source for stats he spewed: Wow, it just keeps getting worse. He's blatantly admitting that not only is he not following the evidence or providing sources for his claims, he's actually forming his opinions and arguments before the research is even done and the only evidence he'll accept is that which conforms to his a priori beliefs. Also, Rasmussen is terrible, and not just just because it has a blatant ideological bias. Rasmussen is methodologically unsound in its sampling and analyses, e.g. only calling homes at a certain time of the day, not calling back if there's no answer on the first try, only polling the first person who answers the phone, etc. Erkenntnis posted:More from Erkenntnis' adventures from around the internet! A great response is, "Which Romney is clean? The one who's pro-choice or the one who's anti-abortion? The one who's pro-Romneycare or the one who's anti-Obamacare? The one who's pro-gay rights or the one who's anti-gay? The one in favor of chasing down Bin Laden or the one who said he wouldn't have gone after him?" Seriously, Romney has taken both sides on virtually every important issue relevant today, so if Kerry was lambasted for being a "flip-flopper," Romney is the king of backflips. Boondock Saint posted:Let's not forget the best part of all of this. After he made the vaccine, he made sure it was distributed to anyone who wanted it. He didn't patent it. He didn't profit from it. Why didn't Salk ever get a Nobel Prize, either in Medicine or the Peace Prize?
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Jul 19, 2012 23:02
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