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Wulframn posted:Seriously, whoever started the "motorcycling is not cheaper" thing needs to look at some real numbers. People say this because most people already have cars, so buying a motorcycle to save money almost never makes sense. e: gently caress, new page, I'll add more content to expand on the "already have a car, add a bike" thing. Average annual miles driven is about 13,500. Average gas price right now is about $3.73 today. Average fuel economy is apparently about 24mpg, but I'll use 20mpg for my math since Example Driver has an impetus to seek out more efficient transportation. Most people won't be as frugal as you. Say they spend $4,000 on a newer-than-25-years-old motorcycle, gear, and training. Before the bike they spend $2,518 on gas alone. Say the bike gets 55mpg, and they can replace about 1/3rd of their driving miles with it - the rest they take the car due to boxes, weather, passengers, whatever. 8,991 car miles = $1,677/yr in gas 4,509 bike miles = $82/yr in gas which is $1,759/yr for annual savings of $841 ... which makes for a payback period of 4.76 years excluding all costs besides gas. That's not a terribly practical money-saving scheme. timn posted:I thought one of the main reasons why commuting by bike is more expensive than by car is that the extra maintenance costs will eat you up in the long run. Wear items like tires and batteries last for a fraction of the time and maintenance intervals are generally more demanding, right? Also this. I don't know motorcycle maintenance costs (I ride scooters  ) so I can't speak to those specifically, but I do believe they are higher per-mile than a modern car.
Gay Nudist Dad fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 04:14
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If you're somewhat handy, you can pick up a sub $1000 Toyota from the early 90s and run it into the ground. Rinse and repeat every two years. It won't be nearly as much fun as motorcycling, though.
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Aug 27, 2012 04:39
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Motorcycle insurance can be a real killer, too, if you're a brand new rider. Especially for someone who's considering it as a car replacement, and has therefore been driving for many years and is paying next to nothing in car insurance already.
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Aug 27, 2012 05:01
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It seems to get pretty tragic if you look at DDing a sumo. Tires go so, so fast 
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Aug 27, 2012 05:06
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Hypnolobster posted:It seems to get pretty tragic if you look at DDing a sumo. Tires go so, so fast
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Aug 27, 2012 07:08
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timn posted:I thought one of the main reasons why commuting by bike is more expensive than by car is that the extra maintenance costs will eat you up in the long run. Wear items like tires and batteries last for a fraction of the time and maintenance intervals are generally more demanding, right? If you are buying a cheap commuter machine with no pretensions to performance, it's unquestionably cheaper by bike. Nothing other than a bicycle will beat, say, a c90. As you add performance, the costs start to rise. Chiefly tyres, followed by fuel if you're buying an open-class sports bike. I've never found maintenance to be more expensive. Bikes are simpler and easier to work on than modern cars. A theoretical 12k oil change interval is fairly irrelevant the first time something breaks or wears out on a car that requires a few hours of labour to fix. The older and shittier a car you buy to bring the cost of purchase closer to a bike, the more frequent those expenses become. As far as carrying large items, most people live reasonably close to a rental car location. Tyres are my biggest cost, but even so my annual tyre bill on the tuono is far less than a month's car payment onthe current equivalent to my old 330i.
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Aug 27, 2012 07:47
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E4C85D38 posted:I've been considering using a motorcycle to save money on commuting (I drive a total of about 17 miles on weekdays and an extra 68 on Sundays) and have been looking into how financially feasible it is with the cost of an MSF BRC, gear, and of course the bike. The Suzuki TU250X seems like a perfect candidate (very good MPG, relatively inexpensive, visually attractive, only 250cc but apparently can go fast enough to help me not become a smear on the highway). Is there any particular reason that this wouldn't be a good bike for what I intend to use it for? Getting back to this post A TU250X is either borderline or not capable of highway speeds, depending on where you live. A Ninja 250 / CBR250 will be much better at highway riding. Alternately a '70s Honda / Suzuki / other UJM will look similar and possibly get you more engine, while still not being overwhelming, and should be noticeably cheaper, but will probably demand a higher level of mechanical competence and care. For a new rider even on a tame bike, insurance can be quite painful. If you're really doing it to save money make sure to call around and get some insurance quotes BEFORE you get too emotionally attached to the idea.
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Aug 27, 2012 07:55
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Figure a fuel injected ~600cc bike gets 45mpg combined mileage versus 25mpg with a dumpy Civic or something. With a $200 rear / $150 front and doing valve/sprocket/chain adjustments/brakes yourself, assuming gas is about 4 bucks per gallon on average, driving 1000 miles a month would mean you're saving about $700 per year commuting on a bike. But you factor in even cheap gear (~700) and they're about even. It's possible to save money on a bike but it's really difficult. With a Ninja 250, all maintenance done yourself, and some cheap tires, you'll definitely save cash, but other bikes are pushing it. This doesn't take into consideration that the bike is also your hobby, so you'll want to spend even more money on it. But then again, by owning cheap cars and doing maintenance on them my whole life, I've already saved myself enough money to support an expensive hobby like motorcycles about ten times over. 
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Aug 27, 2012 11:09
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Whatever money I've saved in gas I've lost just exploring on the bike.
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Aug 27, 2012 15:02
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Another thing to think about is wearing out your gear. Replacing gloves and boots isn't super cheap.
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Aug 27, 2012 15:50
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clutchpuck posted:Another thing to think about is wearing out your gear. Replacing gloves and boots isn't super cheap. Decent gear should last at least a couple of bikes. My overpants have lasted 2 going on 3, my leather jacket 2 (it's still in fine shape, I just changed to textile), I've had 2 sets of gloves, plus one set for winter and 2 pairs of boots. The only thing that actually wore out was my original set of gloves. Finger Prince fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 16:49
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In the last 6 years and howevermany bikes I discovered that waterproof textile stuff doesn't stay waterproof forever which is important living in Western WA. In that time I've bought 2 jackets, 2 rain shells (rode a buddy's bike and his exhaust melted a hole in the first), 2 pairs of boots, 4 pairs of gloves, 1 pair of riding pants, and 3 helmets. I probably wear out my boots and gloves faster than normal (my gloves and shorty offroad boots are for double duty street and trail riding, the enduro pegs chew up the soles and come-offs chew up gloves). I think I have the waterproof thing down with a 2-piece PVC suit but the inevitable helmet update every 2-3 years stings for me. And then there's the gear I bought and wore but didn't end up liking.
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Aug 27, 2012 18:26
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Halo_4am posted:I'm very comfortable with the current bike. The pegs have seen plenty of asphalt high center of gravity be damned. I'd be just fine if the max were identical to it. What is the website that does the ride heights and positions? I've been flicking through the pages of this thread but haven't found it again yet. advion fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 22:42
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advion posted:what is the website that does the ride heights and positions? I've been flicking through the pages of this thread but haven't found it again yet. http://cycle-ergo.com/ Just type 'bike ergo' into Google if you ever forget it again. It's how I found it.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:46
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Arrg thanks I thought I had done something like that but apparently still managed to miss it.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:51
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Gay Nudist Dad posted:People say this because most people already have cars, so buying a motorcycle to save money almost never makes sense. I apologize to those who mistook my post and thought I meant that bikes are cheaper all the time. What I meant to say is: for a person in my situation - with limited funds and trying to find work and go to school - a bike is cheaper. I can see where a new bike, plus grade A equipment, plus better training, plus better insurance - and especially if you already have an automobile - is on par or more expensive than a car (or the car you already have).
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Aug 28, 2012 00:47
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Wulframn posted:I can see where a new bike, plus grade A equipment, plus better training, plus better insurance - and especially if you already have an automobile - is on par or more expensive than a car (or the car you already have). My bike is well used, I use budget gear, have only the BRC for training, and I don't have a lot of insurance coverage. Still my truck is cheaper to operate than my motorcycle, but maybe that's because I neglect my truck.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:53
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Depends on mileage of the vehicles as well. If you're keeping up with factory routine maintenance with a car that you get used, you'll find yourself spending quite a bit to keep it in safe driving condition. My Volvo now has 200,000 miles. Originally bought for $2000, over seven years I have probably spent-- barring gas and insurance (20/month), but including all other maintenance-- about $3000 extra for this car over seven years. This is not including "upgrades" that I wanted to do because I like automotive stuff. My average mileage is 18 combined at $4/gallon (SoCal sucks). Figure I drive 10,000/year because I'm Average Joe. This means it costs me about $2700/year to drive my car, after tires, oil changes, replacing things like wheel bearings, tie rods, etc. ~$2200/year in gas, ~$500/year in maintenance. So about $225/month after everything in automotive expenses. With the car price and insurance included, about $270/month over seven years after everything. Let's look at my bike. I bought my bike for $1200. Gear cost me, let's say, $1600 because I'm a sperg and like buying dumb poo poo for ~safety~, so ~$3000 after fees and stuff. Insurance is $30/month and my bike gets ~37 combined mileage. Figure I put 700 miles a month on my bike and 150 miles a month on my car, on average, because I only use my car for hauling dead hookers or taking my girlfriend out to dinner. Chain, tires, valves, oil, etc is probably gonna run about $500 every 10,000 miles, or $420/year. Gas is costing me about $75/month, so my monthly payment for my bike, after maintenance and insurance, is, let's say, $150/month to be on the liberal side of spending for the bike alone. If I don't drive my car at all, $180/month. That means with light car use and all bike commuting, it's costing me about $250/month to own both a car and a bike (assuming I don't have to do routine maintenance on my Volvo as much due to no miles being put on it, etc). What this all really means is that the cost is negligible and it's theoretically plausible to own a motorcycle at no extra cost over a car for commuting (barring the cost of the bike) while still owning a car, but this only really applies if you own a cheap car that doesn't get the best mileage in the first place and is in operable running condition with no extra maintenance needed. v  vIf you had no car, a cheap bike, affordable gear and insurance, and did all the maintenance yourself, dollar-for-dollar a motorcycle could be more efficient. My friend's $700 Ninja 250 blows everything out of the water though, as a set of tires is like ~$150, he gets 65mpg, insurance is hilariously low, and he uses Craigslist Special gear. I should also add that math doesn't take into consideration differences in commute times nor the throbbing erection that is experienced under the influence of "riding a motorcycle"
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Aug 28, 2012 02:34
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Xovaan posted:I should also add that math doesn't take into consideration differences in commute times nor the throbbing erection that is experienced under the influence of "riding a motorcycle" I'm on to you, 52-year-old Henry Wolf of California 
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Aug 28, 2012 02:46
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I have to make back my automotive costs somehow.
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Aug 28, 2012 02:48
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While browsing for first bikes I came across this and oh god, someone please put a lock on my checking account: 1985 K100 ~5000 original miles. $5500. Obviously heavily modified and a terrible idea but... it looks so nice... and I could have it repainted to match my 330ci 
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Aug 28, 2012 03:33
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The Royal Nonesuch posted:While browsing for first bikes I came across this and oh god, someone please don't buy this before I cant: Fixed that for you. Beautiful machine!
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Aug 28, 2012 03:58
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Xovaan posted:Depends on mileage of the vehicles as well. If you're keeping up with factory routine maintenance with a car that you get used, you'll find yourself spending quite a bit to keep it in safe driving condition. I looked into getting a Ninja 250. The difference is insurance between a cruiser and a sport bike is so prohibitive, for me. As you outline: I have no car, a cheap bike, affordable gear and insurance, and I do all my own maintenance. My bike is more cost effective than a car. For others that may not be so. The Royal Nonesuch posted:While browsing for first bikes I came across this and oh god, someone please put a lock on my checking account: That is a gorgeous bike and if you don't get it you will be spitting in the face of God.
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Aug 28, 2012 04:14
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The Royal Nonesuch posted:1985 K100 ~5000 original miles. $5500. Obviously heavily modified and a terrible idea but... it looks so nice... and I could have it repainted to match my 330ci
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Aug 28, 2012 04:21
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Years are harder on bikes than miles in my experience. I wouldn't drop 5k on an 80's bike if it had 0 miles on it. $2-3 sure. I don't know dick about BMW's though.
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Aug 28, 2012 05:10
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Wulframn posted:I looked into getting a Ninja 250. The difference is insurance between a cruiser and a sport bike is so prohibitive, for me. A Ninja 250 shouldn't be paying anything like 'sportbike' prices for insurance, but this is a good point, a reasonably recent Honda Shadow probably is cheaper to operate and insure than the CA-standard Ninja A scooter is probably even cheaper if you don't need highway speeds / size
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Aug 28, 2012 06:19
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epalm posted:If all goes according to plan, the 2010 will be mine by Monday night New Hotness:  
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Aug 28, 2012 16:43
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epalm posted:New Hotness: You have chosen... well. Congratulations!
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Aug 28, 2012 17:00
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sofullofhate posted:You have chosen... well. Congratulations! Thanks  I love it.
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Aug 28, 2012 17:10
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Tell me why I shouldn't buy this $800 1978 Suzuki GS550 as a first bike. It was the predecessor to the GS500, right? I'm kind of digging its style.
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Aug 28, 2012 17:30
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alakath posted:Tell me why I shouldn't buy this $800 1978 Suzuki GS550 as a first bike. It was the predecessor to the GS500, right? I'm kind of digging its style. It's cool but will be hell in any kind of wet weather. No fenders anywhere will do that. I do like the style though.
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Aug 28, 2012 17:42
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alakath posted:Tell me why I shouldn't buy this $800 1978 Suzuki GS550 as a first bike. It was the predecessor to the GS500, right? I'm kind of digging its style. Looks like fun, if you get it I bet you track down some fenders The GS550 is a four cylinder and the GS500 is a twin, they're pretty different beasts.
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Aug 28, 2012 18:07
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I have a spare rear for my GS450 if it'd fit.
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Aug 28, 2012 18:43
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epalm posted:New Hotness: Good buy. Now go to the twistiest road you can find and break it in.
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Aug 28, 2012 20:59
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sofullofhate posted:Fixed that for you. Beautiful machine! Wulframn posted:
I've got two dozen bikes bookmarked on craigslist but this is the only one I immediately knew I wanted. Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:Not actually that heavily modded from what I can see. Mostly bodywork. Maybe the instruments have been dicked with but the original instruments were kind of a weak point anyway. Solid bikes, but that price is a bit high. OK, so I found the owner's (very detailed) project thread on a K100 forum, covering all of his work on it. Thing is, it all looks nicely done since I am new to motorcycles in general. Yes, he did replace the instruments with custom work, which again looks well-done to me but maybe it could turn out to be a nightmare later? If any of you knowledgeable dudes wouldn't mind looking over the link (it's an interesting read anyway) and telling me what you think? I really want to go shove $4500 at the guy and see if he'll bite, but I don't want a sparking electrical bomb in six months.
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Aug 28, 2012 22:01
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The Royal Nonesuch posted:I've got two dozen bikes bookmarked on craigslist but this is the only one I immediately knew I wanted. That is a super-meticulous build. Go throw your money at the man and ride away grinning. What a gorgeous bike.
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Aug 29, 2012 00:43
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sofullofhate posted:That is a super-meticulous build. Go throw your money at the man and ride away grinning. What a gorgeous bike. I gave him a call tonight after class to see if he still had it. He informed me he did, but it was listed on ebay with about 45 minutes left on the auction Turns out he was located literally around the block from me though, so he agreed to let me swing by and check it out, sit on it, fondle the throttle etc  We talked for a bit about BMWs in general, and his build, and I said to let me know if it didn't sell. 10 minutes later I get a "FYI it didn't sell..." text. I went home, looked up the auction and he had it at $5000. Looks like the perfect opportunity to go wave $4500 at him 
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Aug 29, 2012 06:42
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Dude you're way overpaying for what amounts to a paint job and a tail piece. If you dig it that's cool but a K100 from that era is not exactly a particularly good bike. For $4500 you can get your hands on nearly anything made from the mid 2000s which will be a far better performing bike.
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Aug 29, 2012 14:02
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Yeah even at dealership rates. Before you buy it do an ebay such for parts for the 80's BMW. You will go broke getting them from BMW shops, and a 30 year old machine will need parts regardless of miles or care.
Halo_4am fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Aug 29, 2012 |
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Aug 29, 2012 14:38
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Halo_4am posted:Yeah even at dealership rates. Before you buy it do an ebay such for parts for the 80's BMW. You will go broke getting them from BMW shops, and an 30 year old machine will need parts regardless of miles are care. Heh - this was actually my first thought when I woke up this morning. One of my original ideas for getting a motorcycle was to keep some mileage off of my BMW coupe, so as to limit the flow of expensive parts I needed to feed it  . I'm going to think about it today, but this is a good reminder to sleep on flash impulses, kids!
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Aug 29, 2012 17:53
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