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cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

Holy poo poo you're back. Ever sell your RV90?

No it's still taking up space in the garage. Still want to not come get it?

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Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




Ship it to me in boxes plz

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

Ship it to me in boxes plz

I think it'll cost you way too much to ship.

In other news I'm thinking about buying a Spree to match the bf so we can go the same speeds. Plus we could load them in the truck and take them with us into campsites. :3:

LobsterboyX
Jun 27, 2003
I want to eat my chicken.
So I got my SIP replica sport.

I definately need to adjust timing and re jet the carb. I lost a lot of power, but it looks BA.



Gay Nudist Dad
Dec 12, 2006

asshole on a scooter
That does look great! You probably won't need to adjust timing, but you will definitely need to rejet.

Wulframn
Jul 6, 2012

sexy fast velociraptor

LobsterboyX posted:

So I got my SIP replica sport.

I definately need to adjust timing and re jet the carb. I lost a lot of power, but it looks BA.





That is just about one of the most awesome looking scooters I've ever seen. I love fifties-styled things; I would just have to get of picture of myself on that in a brown fedora and brown tweed jacket with a pipe jauntily placed inbetween my teeth.

LobsterboyX
Jun 27, 2003
I want to eat my chicken.
If you are ever in the los angeles area, Id be happy to lend it to you for a photo shoot...

I rejetted my carb to a 110 and that seems to do a bit better, I also got 100, along with my stock jet. Im a bit more satisfied with the 110 but i want to try the 100 just as a baseline.

I find the power band is still there, it just takes longer to find it, later today or tomorrow, im going to try out the 100 to see if that does anything, but i feel theres just no back pressure with this pipe. I can still smash through the gears up to 40 and 50 pretty easily, its just not as "peppy" as it was with the stock, ugly weenie pipe.

In my quest for style, this abarth replica pipe seems to be the coolest looking pipe i could find. because Im new to this whole scooter thing, I find myself thinking "why is everything so cheap?" and going willy nilly in to things.

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now
I found a Spree! It's $250 and an hour and a half away from me. My boyfriend's Spree makes the Zuma handling look like an old granny. Definitely keeping the Zuma as a daily driver, but the Spree will be the fun around town trip scooter.

Rugoberta Munchu
Jun 5, 2003

Do you want a hupyrolysege slcorpselong?
Aren't those things a bit tough to get going past 30 MPH though?

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

You really need to swap in a variated engine (dio/elite engine) if you want to do anything to a Spree. Modifying the stock engine is a waste of time.

http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6536

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now

M4rg4r1ne posted:

Aren't those things a bit tough to get going past 30 MPH though?

Yes. The boyfriend hits around 27. I'm more just buying for fun and not practicality. And they aren't too hard to resell.

After looking at it I'm going to wait. There's parts missing that I don't want to deal with replacing.

cheese eats mouse fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Aug 29, 2012

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!
Lipstick Apathy
My front brake handle is sticky. What should I use to lube it? Also, any tips for taking the handle apart? Never done it before.

Gay Nudist Dad
Dec 12, 2006

asshole on a scooter

notZaar posted:

My front brake handle is sticky. What should I use to lube it? Also, any tips for taking the handle apart? Never done it before.

Sticky how?

If it's just that the hinge/pivot point is sticking, that's easy. Probably just a bolt and it'll come off (if it's hydraulic, anyway - if it's mechanical/cable then be very careful to disconnect/reconnect the cable). Watch out for washers and other small parts. Then just clean up and re-grease, preferably with a waterproof grease.

If it's something beyond that, things get a little more complicated.

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!
Lipstick Apathy
It's hard to squeeze. Last time I was at the mechanic I complained about it and when I picked it up he said it just needed a lube job (I hope he checked the fluid, I can't be sure.) It worked fine for two weeks, then it went back to being hard to squeeze. I'm guessing he just squirted some WD40 in there that evaporated.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

I have a cable brake, but I greased my lever with the same old machine grease I was using for everything else and it's worked fine. Creates some black goo occasionally as tiny bits of dirt work their way into the grease but you can just wipe that off.

evilnissan
Apr 18, 2007

I'm comin home.
Any tips for getting a front variator off? Local bike stop doesn't has a piston stop.

The CVT on my friends (use to be mine) 250cc Chinese scooter has stopped going through the full range of belt motion and we want to check and change out the roller weights.

Rugoberta Munchu
Jun 5, 2003

Do you want a hupyrolysege slcorpselong?
Strap wrench around the drive face. Kind of like so. If you're working by yourself, find something for the strap wrench handle to rest against (like a brick or your foot) while you work on loosening the nut.

Rugoberta Munchu
Jun 5, 2003

Do you want a hupyrolysege slcorpselong?


I've made some progress on the Vento.



First I spray-bombed it and rebuilt the engine using a big bore kit, reinforced crank, fancy driveline bits, Dellorto PHBG 21mm carburetor, LeoVince 70 exhaust, yadda yadda yadda...



Then I stripped it down and test-fitted a moped seat with the hope that I can make this thing a top-tank cutdown in the future. The headlights were driving lamps and while they looked cool, the electrical bits could only handle powering one of them, and it cast too narrow a beam to be useful at night.



Then I removed the security system and wiring for stuff that no longer was used, like the oil injector, auto choke, and electric starter. The warning label said "No battery ignition. Have not connect accumulator employ for forbidden this products."



Then I replaced the battery with a capacitor and mounted it to where the oil tank used to be. Also seen: taped-up air filter.



I sloppily drilled some speedventilation holes as the drivetrain makes a lot more heat.



And here it is as of today. Top speed is around 55 MPH. Better mirrors, a 2000RPM torque spring and new gaskets are on their way. I found a leak in both my intake and head gaskets. Boo.

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009
Looks like an horizontal AC minarelli repro, let me know if you need parts I have a few exhausts (bidalot S1 and S3, Doppler RR7, Pinasco and a few Yasunis), cylinder kits and a 12mm racing crankshaft, I also have everything you need to convert it to liquid cooling and rear disc brake.

TheBeatlesRock
Aug 11, 2005

What I don't know, I can fake. But cash only. I don't take checks from college students.
Alright, I'd like to solicit the opinion of people in this thread as to the cause of my current concern and see if I'm currently progressing down the correct path to fix it.

Before I begin the backstory, I'll go ahead and let you in on the make/model of everything I'm working with. I've got an '06 Sym DD50 which is sporting a dio engine. The first exhuast was simply the stock engine that came with it and the new one is a tecnigas next-r. Currently, the scooter has around 12,000 miles on it and I've removed all the restrictions, added free-flow air intake, and had a 68cc BBK installed about 100 miles ago.

So now for the backstory. Three weeks ago I decided that I would change the tires on my scooter. The front tire went alright; It was a huge pain in the rear end and took me way, way longer than it should have, but everything worked out in the end and it's still doing fine now. Then, a few days later, I decided it was time to finish the back tire. As I'm sure you're aware, this involves taking off the exhaust so that you can properly access the nuts holding the rim onto the frame. I've never done this before but I just bought myself a fancy new toolset and was determined to figure this out. So off comes the exhaust and I get the new back tire on and back onto the frame.

So when I was taking the exhaust out, I noticed that the exhaust gasket was really worn out and deformed in sections. First, I ordered a fancy new gasket which turned out not to fit. Well, the holes fit onto the mounting bolts but the actual gasket material had to wide of a diameter and left a gap.

So then I went with the simpler version gasket which seems to fit snugly around the flange in my exhaust (which was a little bit smaller than the output from my engine). However, I noticed that there was now air being pushed out from around the crack area where the exhaust and exhaust port meet. However, I can't remember for the life of me if that was happening before I changed the exhaust in the first place. Then I started noticing that the bottom of my seat was getting really, really hot after only a short ride. I'm talking like a five-minute slow paced ride. I definitely know that wasn't happening before.

I figured this was my chance to finally justify getting a new exhaust like I've always wanted and maybe this would just take care of the problem for me. I decided to go with the tecnigas next-r which from what I could tell would at least be a somewhat respectable upgrade. I then installed everything (even the crappy as hell one-size-fits-all mounting gasket).

The new exhaust didn't seem to have much of a flange to it, only a little section near the bottom, which made lining up the exhaust gasket a real pain in the rear end. I think I got it so that it was flush against both the port and exhaust. After all this, I'm still feeling this air coming out from the crack which marks the two items coming together. I've tried going on short rides and immediately checking this and noticing that the air was quite hot, at least when I was pulling the throttle. The bottom of my seating area (the inside bottom part) still gets really hot after a pretty short ride.

So after all that my question. Is this kind of heat just a normal side effect of increasing the input/output of the engine or does this seem more like something related to not having a proper seal in the exhaust system? Regardless, I'm going to get more heat-resistant material for the bottom of my seat but is there anything else I can do? I guess what's bothering me is that everytime I think that I get everything lined up and tightened up as much as possible, but this still seems to persist and I can't remember if it was happening before I started doing all this work or not.

I'm not sure if pictures will help or not, but I figure that it can't hurt. Image one is a general overview shot of the insides. Two and three focus on the seal between exhaust and exhaust port.






TheBeatlesRock fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Sep 12, 2012

Rugoberta Munchu
Jun 5, 2003

Do you want a hupyrolysege slcorpselong?
You're probably going to need to spray the exhaust mounting area with carb cleaner to check for leaks. An unchecked leak may eventually fry your piston.

Sh4 posted:

Looks like an horizontal AC minarelli repro, let me know if you need parts I have a few exhausts (bidalot S1 and S3, Doppler RR7, Pinasco and a few Yasunis), cylinder kits and a 12mm racing crankshaft, I also have everything you need to convert it to liquid cooling and rear disc brake.
Indeed it is that engine. I may be interested in water-cooled stuff in the future. I'll have to save up money for a while. Looks like the front of the frame will be wide enough to mount a radiator. Not sure about wheel clearance, though.

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009

TheBeatlesRock posted:

Alright, I'd like to solicit the opinion of people in this thread as to the cause of my current concern and see if I'm currently progressing down the correct path to fix it.

Before I begin the backstory, I'll go ahead and let you in on the make/model of everything I'm working with. I've got an '06 Sym DD50 which is sporting a dio engine. The first exhuast was simply the stock engine that came with it and the new one is a tecnigas next-r. Currently, the scooter has around 12,000 miles on it and I've removed all the restrictions, added free-flow air intake, and had a 68cc BBK installed about 100 miles ago.

So now for the backstory. Three weeks ago I decided that I would change the tires on my scooter. The front tire went alright; It was a huge pain in the rear end and took me way, way longer than it should have, but everything worked out in the end and it's still doing fine now. Then, a few days later, I decided it was time to finish the back tire. As I'm sure you're aware, this involves taking off the exhaust so that you can properly access the nuts holding the rim onto the frame. I've never done this before but I just bought myself a fancy new toolset and was determined to figure this out. So off comes the exhaust and I get the new back tire on and back onto the frame.

So when I was taking the exhaust out, I noticed that the exhaust gasket was really worn out and deformed in sections. First, I ordered a fancy new gasket which turned out not to fit. Well, the holes fit onto the mounting bolts but the actual gasket material had to wide of a diameter and left a gap.

So then I went with the simpler version gasket which seems to fit snugly around the flange in my exhaust (which was a little bit smaller than the output from my engine). However, I noticed that there was now air being pushed out from around the crack area where the exhaust and exhaust port meet. However, I can't remember for the life of me if that was happening before I changed the exhaust in the first place. Then I started noticing that the bottom of my seat was getting really, really hot after only a short ride. I'm talking like a five-minute slow paced ride. I definitely know that wasn't happening before.

I figured this was my chance to finally justify getting a new exhaust like I've always wanted and maybe this would just take care of the problem for me. I decided to go with the tecnigas next-r which from what I could tell would at least be a somewhat respectable upgrade. I then installed everything (even the crappy as hell one-size-fits-all mounting gasket).

The new exhaust didn't seem to have much of a flange to it, only a little section near the bottom, which made lining up the exhaust gasket a real pain in the rear end. I think I got it so that it was flush against both the port and exhaust. After all this, I'm still feeling this air coming out from the crack which marks the two items coming together. I've tried going on short rides and immediately checking this and noticing that the air was quite hot, at least when I was pulling the throttle. The bottom of my seating area (the inside bottom part) still gets really hot after a pretty short ride.

So after all that my question. Is this kind of heat just a normal side effect of increasing the input/output of the engine or does this seem more like something related to not having a proper seal in the exhaust system? Regardless, I'm going to get more heat-resistant material for the bottom of my seat but is there anything else I can do? I guess what's bothering me is that everytime I think that I get everything lined up and tightened up as much as possible, but this still seems to persist and I can't remember if it was happening before I started doing all this work or not.

I'm not sure if pictures will help or not, but I figure that it can't hurt. Image one is a general overview shot of the insides. Two and three focus on the seal between exhaust and exhaust port.






check for leaks by obstruating the exhaust tip with your hand, if the engine stops, you have no leak. Also the correct gasket for this exhaust is the flat one with the hole in the middle, not the ring one. Also technigas are the worst exhaust for performance and quality. You can see on dyno tests they are pretty much equivalent to sito/ stock style exhaust and quality is very bad, i've seen a ton of them breaking at the silencer welds. They are made by tnt and i've had a 3 months old tnt exhaust just split in half in monaco, that same model I broke is still on sale under the technigas brand (model is technigas trek) which is relatively popular in here on minarellis because it's cheap and people suffer from no performance increase amd a bunch of welds failure especially on chromed models

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009

M4rg4r1ne posted:

You're probably going to need to spray the exhaust mounting area with carb cleaner to check for leaks. An unchecked leak may eventually fry your piston.
Indeed it is that engine. I may be interested in water-cooled stuff in the future. I'll have to save up money for a while. Looks like the front of the frame will be wide enough to mount a radiator. Not sure about wheel clearance, though.

You just need water pump, radiator and tubing to convert to LC, I'll make you a good price for that, also if you have raditor fitment issues I have different models radiators I can show you, I even have a brand new OEM full aluminium Aprilia SR one.

You'll probably have clearance issues with the wheel, one way is to use a Mach-G radiator which pretty small and is designed for wheel well fitment but downside is less cooling, I've gone a different way on my swapped Rocket:





edit: Because I want to clear most of my parts if you take the LC parts from me I'll give you rear disc caliper, 13" rear wheel with disc, rear master cylinder and brake lines for really cheap, you'd have to get an adapter and drill some holes in your engine block but it's really a 1 hour job, I can order the adapter for you in case it's complicated to get it in your country

Sh4 fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Sep 13, 2012

TheBeatlesRock
Aug 11, 2005

What I don't know, I can fake. But cash only. I don't take checks from college students.
So, it actually turns out that I'm an idiot and there wasn't actually a gasket leak happening. Turns out that's just air from the fan coming out, as the only outlet from the plastic covering over the engine is right in front of the exhaust port. I mistook this air as possibly being from a gasket leak because it was getting really hot, but I'll get that in moment. I was able to confirm this with both of ya'lls suggestions.

Sh4 posted:

check for leaks by obstruating the exhaust tip with your hand, if the engine stops, you have no leak.

M4rg4r1ne posted:

You're probably going to need to spray the exhaust mounting area with carb cleaner to check for leaks. An unchecked leak may eventually fry your piston.

I didn't notice any rpm changes when spraying with carb cleaner and the engine died in about three seconds when plugging the hole, so I can put my made up problem behind me and start dealing what's really there.

Sh4 posted:

Also technigas are the worst exhaust for performance and quality. You can see on dyno tests they are pretty much equivalent to sito/ stock style exhaust and quality is very bad, i've seen a ton of them breaking at the silencer welds. They are made by tnt and i've had a 3 months old tnt exhaust just split in half in monaco, that same model I broke is still on sale under the technigas brand (model is technigas trek) which is relatively popular in here on minarellis because it's cheap and people suffer from no performance increase amd a bunch of welds failure especially on chromed models

No kidding! I've been been mildly impressed with the gains in performance but I'm going from using a 4 year old stock exhaust so by comparison I think just about anything would be better. I've not been impressed by the build quality of this exhaust one bit however. The silencer attachment has been especially annoying as you couldn't even properly fasten the fastner around it with the included parts. In addition, you can't properly tighten the silencer gasket because the metal passage is directly in front of one of the nuts and there's not enough space in front to get a ratchethead + socket attached. I just generally felt I had to get this exhaust installed in spite of itself. Also, having all of the included screw/bolts and fasteners be completely worthless was really quite annoying.

I wish that I had gone with something in the style of this so at least it could be bolted in correctly with minimal hassle.

For the moment I'm not riding anywhere. Since my engine is running hot, I believe it might very well be the case that the increased in/out airflow might be causing the engine to run quite lean. I went out to get a spark plug socket on Friday, but while it fit my spark plug, it was to large for my ratchet so I've not been able to confirm this by the state of my spark plug yet.

Reguardless, I've gone ahead and ordered some new jets (85, 88, 90) and will do a bit of performance tuning when they come in and let you know if that takes care of it.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009

TheBeatlesRock posted:

So, it actually turns out that I'm an idiot and there wasn't actually a gasket leak happening. Turns out that's just air from the fan coming out, as the only outlet from the plastic covering over the engine is right in front of the exhaust port. I mistook this air as possibly being from a gasket leak because it was getting really hot, but I'll get that in moment. I was able to confirm this with both of ya'lls suggestions.



I didn't notice any rpm changes when spraying with carb cleaner and the engine died in about three seconds when plugging the hole, so I can put my made up problem behind me and start dealing what's really there.


No kidding! I've been been mildly impressed with the gains in performance but I'm going from using a 4 year old stock exhaust so by comparison I think just about anything would be better. I've not been impressed by the build quality of this exhaust one bit however. The silencer attachment has been especially annoying as you couldn't even properly fasten the fastner around it with the included parts. In addition, you can't properly tighten the silencer gasket because the metal passage is directly in front of one of the nuts and there's not enough space in front to get a ratchethead + socket attached. I just generally felt I had to get this exhaust installed in spite of itself. Also, having all of the included screw/bolts and fasteners be completely worthless was really quite annoying.

I wish that I had gone with something in the style of this so at least it could be bolted in correctly with minimal hassle.

For the moment I'm not riding anywhere. Since my engine is running hot, I believe it might very well be the case that the increased in/out airflow might be causing the engine to run quite lean. I went out to get a spark plug socket on Friday, but while it fit my spark plug, it was to large for my ratchet so I've not been able to confirm this by the state of my spark plug yet.

Reguardless, I've gone ahead and ordered some new jets (85, 88, 90) and will do a bit of performance tuning when they come in and let you know if that takes care of it.

Thanks for the suggestions.
you certainly need rejetting because changing the air filter can change your tuning by up to 15 points and an exhaust change it as well, however you can have overheating issues by running rich too but I don't think this the case because of the upgrades. By using an exhaust and a 70cc engine (if your carb is around 19 in size) a 95 jet should be a good starting point. The only way to fine tune is to check the spark plug tho. Also if your kit is not aluminium it will soak much more heat but that is normal. You should use lighter roller weights, around 5gr and fine tune from there and also use stiffer clutch spring for better launches. It also a good idea to advance ignition timing by something like 1,5mm.
Let me know if you have any problems for tuning because scooters are pretty much unique and it takes a lot of practice to feel and understand all the components like roller weights, clutch springs and torque spring because they are all working together in the transmission. My advice is to start working on jetting the carb, I usually do this by cleaning the spark plug, removing the drive belt and running the engine at WOT for a minute and checking the spark plug. Hth

TheBeatlesRock
Aug 11, 2005

What I don't know, I can fake. But cash only. I don't take checks from college students.

Sh4 posted:

Let me know if you have any problems for tuning because scooters are pretty much unique and it takes a lot of practice to feel and understand all the components like roller weights, clutch springs and torque spring because they are all working together in the transmission. My advice is to start working on jetting the carb, I usually do this by cleaning the spark plug, removing the drive belt and running the engine at WOT for a minute and checking the spark plug. Hth

Thanks for the advice. I'm really not expecting to get it anywhere near perfectly tuned, perhaps just to get it somewhere in the ballpark and preferably on the richer side of things. I'm planning to take it to a good shop in town but I've got to wait until next month when I get paid again. Right now I'm planning to get new front and back brakes installed and get the final tuning finished. I really just bought the new jets because it was the first thing that popped up on my search for possible solutions for running lean but then realized it only really affected 3/4-WOT and really what I'd probably have to do adjust the needle clip lower.

Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXxxJrA5hNY

While I've already opened up my carburator, cleaned things out, and I know what he's talking about, I just know that I'd gently caress up some tiny hard to order part (probably the clip) and then have to deal with that.

Today I went out and got a new wrench that could fit the with spark plug socket (1/2" apparently) and was able to take it out and have a look. I'm not sure if I have any good roads around my house where I could go WOT for a few minutes and immediately pull over to check/change the plug so I haven't done a proper plug chop yet. However, I did put down the stand and held WOT for about 3 minutes or so (while looking like an rear end in a top hat) and quickly checked the plug after that. It seemed to be a tan color, if anything slightly closer to rich than lean and with a little oil around. I didn't think to take a picture because I'm an idiot but I'll get one first thing tomorrow.

However, this throws me off as I had figured that I was definitely running lean, based on the engine heat and having installed a uni-air free flow air filter, 68cc BBK and a new exhaust but still having stock jets (I've only put maybe 3-4 miles of easier riding since putting exhaust on). I mean, that has to be running lean, right? And my engine block, and the plastic shroud around it, are still really hot. I mean, it's possible that they've always been like that (for the 300 or so miles that I've had the BBK on) but I just don't believe that in my gut.

I've tried reading text descriptions of how different mixtures should run the engine while operated at different speeds. Lean basically making is jumpy, bogged down at high speeds and hot. My engine runs hot and it accelerates really well, it doesn't seem twitchy and I don't have a baseline for exactly how it should be performing at this setup.

Anyway, this is just kind of annoying because I figured that I could turn this into a learning experience, but while I can read the guides online and watch the videos and perform what they do in there, I can't really interpret the results yet and make adjustments based off that. I'm just kind of trying to see if I could make my scooter safe and mechanically sound for the rest of the month for my short trips about town, not more than a couple of miles. I might just have to not ride it until I can get it properly looked at.

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009
If you have the stock jet you probably have the stock carb, check the size on it. The carb size affect air flow so if your carb is maxxed it can run lean but with the correct mix. Usually for 70cc's the minimum carb size is 19. Also if you could post a video of WOT run from a standing start I could tell you more because maybe your roller weights are just too heavy and the engine is not going anywhere near it's ideal rpm range and that's why your mix seems fine while having a small jet on it.

TheBeatlesRock
Aug 11, 2005

What I don't know, I can fake. But cash only. I don't take checks from college students.

Sh4 posted:

If you have the stock jet you probably have the stock carb, check the size on it. The carb size affect air flow so if your carb is maxxed it can run lean but with the correct mix. Usually for 70cc's the minimum carb size is 19. Also if you could post a video of WOT run from a standing start I could tell you more because maybe your roller weights are just too heavy and the engine is not going anywhere near it's ideal rpm range and that's why your mix seems fine while having a small jet on it.

Well, in the past I've done a bit of research on just this topic. This thread seems to indicate that my stock carb, which I'm still using, is a Keihin PB 12mm.

I can confirm that it is definently a Keihin PB from reading designations on the carb itself. I'm not sure where exactly to measure for size, I think it's supposed to be at the narrowest point (inside the main air passage, closer to either intake or output side) but I don't think I have the tools for a real accurate measurement. I think the poster in the alluded to thread is correct however, as a 12mm seems exactly what SYM would put on by default.

It looks just like this:



1)Gas line
2)Oil line - however mine comes straight down and directly over the smaller screw. It doesn't connect to that top part but straight down into the bowl. I just premix now and mine is simply a little line with a bolt set inside so this doesn't really affect my setup.
3)Idle Screw

I will get you a picture of mine this evening.

Just to note, I took it apart yesterday (well short of anything I would have to mess with float bowl to deal with) to refresh myself before the new jet arrived and to double-check that everything was clean and free-flowing. Everything seemed to be, although the pilot jet was really hard to tell because it was the longer type and the passage was really tiny. Regardless, pushed some compressed air through it and could feel it coming out the otherside.

Thank you for your help with this. I know it can be a little frustrating giving advice/help to problems like this online because sometimes people just disappear and you have no idea how it worked out or if the person even took your advice. I am planning on doing a more in depth plug reading this evening, with some pictures, and I will see about getting you the video of standing WOT this evening.

I've got some more sparkplugs on the way, but for the meantime I'll have to do this with just the one. I will attempt to clean it as best I can and post before/after pictures so there's something to compare with. I know this is not optimal, but for the moment I'm just trying to make sure that the piston isn't on the edge of seizing and to possibly get a bit on the rich side of things.

Besides taking good pictures of plug readings and the standing idle->WOT, is there any other information that I could post here that might help?

Thanks again for all the help. I sure didn't mean to derail all of this into my own personal scooter problems thread. I'll see about creating some guides of on how to do the basic sets of this, like changing the jets or something.

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009

TheBeatlesRock posted:

Well, in the past I've done a bit of research on just this topic. This thread seems to indicate that my stock carb, which I'm still using, is a Keihin PB 12mm.

I can confirm that it is definently a Keihin PB from reading designations on the carb itself. I'm not sure where exactly to measure for size, I think it's supposed to be at the narrowest point (inside the main air passage, closer to either intake or output side) but I don't think I have the tools for a real accurate measurement. I think the poster in the alluded to thread is correct however, as a 12mm seems exactly what SYM would put on by default.

It looks just like this:



1)Gas line
2)Oil line - however mine comes straight down and directly over the smaller screw. It doesn't connect to that top part but straight down into the bowl. I just premix now and mine is simply a little line with a bolt set inside so this doesn't really affect my setup.
3)Idle Screw

I will get you a picture of mine this evening.

Just to note, I took it apart yesterday (well short of anything I would have to mess with float bowl to deal with) to refresh myself before the new jet arrived and to double-check that everything was clean and free-flowing. Everything seemed to be, although the pilot jet was really hard to tell because it was the longer type and the passage was really tiny. Regardless, pushed some compressed air through it and could feel it coming out the otherside.

Thank you for your help with this. I know it can be a little frustrating giving advice/help to problems like this online because sometimes people just disappear and you have no idea how it worked out or if the person even took your advice. I am planning on doing a more in depth plug reading this evening, with some pictures, and I will see about getting you the video of standing WOT this evening.

I've got some more sparkplugs on the way, but for the meantime I'll have to do this with just the one. I will attempt to clean it as best I can and post before/after pictures so there's something to compare with. I know this is not optimal, but for the moment I'm just trying to make sure that the piston isn't on the edge of seizing and to possibly get a bit on the rich side of things.

Besides taking good pictures of plug readings and the standing idle->WOT, is there any other information that I could post here that might help?

Thanks again for all the help. I sure didn't mean to derail all of this into my own personal scooter problems thread. I'll see about creating some guides of on how to do the basic sets of this, like changing the jets or something.

From your pictures I think I spotted your problem, while I'm not familiar woth your engine (looks like a piaggio engine) I saw these carb and intake on chinese scooters here and I'm almost sur your problem is with the carb, intake manifold and reed valves you use. First thing is to upgrade your carn with a bigger del'orto because a 12mm is already the biggest restrictor even on stock 49cc engines. Also the intake is restricted too by internal diameter. The reed valves box might be restricted too, you want to compare it to pictures of upgraded ones and check for reeds size and gas passages. A del'orto carb with intake and reed valve will cost about 150$ But I might have a spare carb that I can give you depending on the size you want and if you can't find good cheap parts, I can check for you what I find because in my country parts are pretty cheap. Let me know which engine it is and on what scooters it is because I have some piaggio and minarelli parts and most chinese engines are usually repros of one or the other. You will have a lot more power and no cooling problem with a prope flowing intake, also del'orto carbs are the easiest to tune right so that will be a lot of time saved.

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009
Also you should run 4% pre mix and remove the oil tank and pump and plug the oil line or order a carb without oil plug because stock oil pump don't have enough flow for 70cc cylinder and you'll fry your piston and cylinder because once it will run right it will run 10000+ rpm's

Edit. I have this old video on youtube on my nitro with about the same cylinder as yours and torquey exhaust so you can see how it sounds respond when it's tuned right : http://youtu.be/yYRYiItmYko

Sh4 fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Sep 19, 2012

TheBeatlesRock
Aug 11, 2005

What I don't know, I can fake. But cash only. I don't take checks from college students.

Sh4 posted:

From your pictures I think I spotted your problem, while I'm not familiar woth your engine (looks like a piaggio engine) I saw these carb and intake on chinese scooters here and I'm almost sur your problem is with the carb, intake manifold and reed valves you use. First thing is to upgrade your carn with a bigger del'orto because a 12mm is already the biggest restrictor even on stock 49cc engines. Also the intake is restricted too by internal diameter. The reed valves box might be restricted too, you want to compare it to pictures of upgraded ones and check for reeds size and gas passages.

I think you're definitely on to something here. I mean, it makes sense that if the carb's intake/outtake diameter isn't allowing enough air through that I'll likely have to upgrade the intake mainfold as well. Actually, one of the initial restrictions that was installed was a washer placed inside the intake mainfold so that's been taken care of, but I wouldn't be suprised if whole thing is just to small.

The engine that it's sporting is a Dio. I believe this is because SYM is part of the SYM/KYMCO/HONDA grouping that makes a lot of their designs based off that engine.


Sh4 posted:

Also you should run 4% pre mix and remove the oil tank and pump and plug the oil line or order a carb without oil plug because stock oil pump don't have enough flow for 70cc cylinder and you'll fry your piston and cylinder because once it will run right it will run 10000+ rpm's

I've already been running pre mix and actually just removed my old oil tank to free up a bit of room under the seat. Also, one less thing to worry about in the future and all that.

Are you sure about the 4% though? For a little while I was running at 40:1 (2.5%) of Maxima Super-M 2T and thought my scooter was smoking a bit more than it had the in past. Like I noticed smoke at stoplights after I had been riding for a little while (this was before new exhaust) when in the past I wouldn't be putting out enough to be noticeable after everything was good and hot. I switched over to Maxima Super-M 2T Smokless and dropped it to 45:1 (2.2%) about a tank and a half ago and was still noticing more than I thought usual. It makes me a little reluctant to up the percentage of oil, but I'll give it a shot if you think it might help.

The oil line is plugged like this:


So a little bit of of weirdness that needs some background. I did not install the BBK myself, it was installed at a reputable scooter shop in town along with the uni-air filter and some new rollers. I was not informed of anything else that was done and nothing in the printout refers to anything about jets. I had my set of new jets (85, 88, 90) come in today. I opened up the carb so that I could at least compare what I had against something I knew the size of. Well, after comparing it was apparent that the jet installed was larger than any of the ones that I ordered. I couldn't place an exact size on it, but if I had to guess I'd say it's something in the 93-95 range.

Well at first this new information was a bit confusing but after thinking about it for a minute, and remembering what you said about 95 being a good starting point, and realized that I had ordered all of my jets to small. So I ended up leaving the current jet installed since obviously going smaller would only exacerbate the problem, if in fact the air/gas ratio was a part of the problem.

Anyway, a picture to illustrate. It's far from perfect and my camera isn't all that great (a recurring theme):

The original, larger, jet is on the left. The 90 is on the right. I'd love to drill it out and see what happens but don't have the right tools for that job.

I did a poor man's version of a plug chop today, to see how everything was doing. Basically I cleaned the spark plug, raised the back tire, held it at the particular through level (idle, 1/2, WOT) for about 4-5 minutes, then quickly hit the kill-switch and back brake at the same time then checked the plug. Not perfect but I'm still trying to find a place for a good genuine plug chop. There are pictures but alas not very good ones and I apologize for the quality. Apparently my camera doesn't know to zoom in on anything close to itself. If there's anything you could tell me that'd be much appreciated.

The color of the tip part seemed to stay kind of consistent throughout all of my tests. It could mean that this wasn't successful and there's really no imitation for a new plug and real rider.

Initially Clean:


After Idle:


After 1/2 Throttle:


After WOT:


Again, sorry about the blur. The best way I could see to describe the color would be a peach-brown. I did not notice any deposits or unwanted gunk.

Thanks again for the feedback and patience.

That's really good advice, I will try this method next time. I think it will give me much better results.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

TheBeatlesRock fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Sep 20, 2012

Dalrain
Nov 13, 2008

Experience joy,
Experience waffle,
Today.
Try taking pictures with the plug on a table or white sheet of paper, see if it helps the focus. (It's probably just trying to auto focus and missing the "subject" of the picture.)

Rugoberta Munchu
Jun 5, 2003

Do you want a hupyrolysege slcorpselong?
32:1 premix is the usual ratio for Minarelli scoots.

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009
Yes I meant 2% sorry

Rugoberta Munchu
Jun 5, 2003

Do you want a hupyrolysege slcorpselong?
The Malossi variator I put on my Vento Triton came with a 1,000RPM torsion spring. I felt that my transmission wasn't staying in the low range long enough with that setup. So, I tossed a 2,000RPM spring in there today and might have overdone it just a wee bit.

It was topping out around 55 with 5 gram rollers. The stock ones are 7 grams. With the 2000RPM spring, it accelerates like crazy, but now tops out around 35 and there's belt slippage in the front if I give it too much gas. I seem to have misplaced my stock weights, so I'll be getting some 7 and 8 gram ones soon in the hopes that remedies this.

Also I found a Vento Zip for $450 near St. Louis. It uses the short case 1E40QMB, as opposed to my long case, but the wheels are the same width so the offset doesn't need to be changed if I swapped the engines, and it weighs 60 pounds less. Stupid busted teeth requiring me to spend my money on dentistry instead of scootistry.

Rugoberta Munchu fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Sep 25, 2012

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009

Rugoberta Munchu posted:

The Malossi variator I put on my Vento Triton came with a 1,000RPM torsion spring. I felt that my transmission wasn't staying in the low range long enough with that setup. So, I tossed a 2,000RPM spring in there today and might have overdone it just a wee bit.

It was topping out around 55 with 5 gram rollers. The stock ones are 7 grams. With the 2000RPM spring, it accelerates like crazy, but now tops out around 35 and there's belt slippage in the front if I give it too much gas. I seem to have misplaced my stock weights, so I'll be getting some 7 and 8 gram ones soon in the hopes that remedies this.

Also I found a Vento Zip for $450 near St. Louis. It uses the short case 1E40QMB, as opposed to my long case, but the wheels are the same width so the offset doesn't need to be changed if I swapped the engines, and it weighs 60 pounds less. Stupid busted teeth requiring me to spend my money on dentistry instead of scootistry.

Well looks like the 2000 rpm spring is too much, if you have ANY loss of top speed by changing the torque spring then you're going too stiff. If you have a big bore cylinder and good exhaust 5 gr. is about the right weight, the role of roller weights is to keep the rpm's in the range where you have peak power, if it over revs add weight, if it's not revving high enough go lighter.

Rugoberta Munchu
Jun 5, 2003

Do you want a hupyrolysege slcorpselong?
The stock CDI cuts spark past 10,000 RPM. I'm pretty sure I was just about there. I certainly was past the power band when I let off. I have a CDI that'll let you rev to the moon, but I don't want to install it until I get the transmission stuff sorted out. A friend's scrounging up some heavier weights to try first. Worst case scenario is I'll wind up getting a 1500 RPM spring.

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now
I work at power sports store and we got a 2006 Vino 125 in with 6k miles or so. They want $2500 for it. The MSRP for a new one is $2800. That thing will never sell.

I want to go to one of the guys on floor and offer $1500 and see their reaction.

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now


:D

Also someone gave me a 76 Motobecane Moped. It doesn't run. I don't know where to start to get it running. I'll be in the moped thread I guess.

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Sh4
Feb 8, 2009

cheese eats mouse posted:



:D

Also someone gave me a 76 Motobecane Moped. It doesn't run. I don't know where to start to get it running. I'll be in the moped thread I guess.
Let me know if you need parts. Everything is still availlable here

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