p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

But... macros were 25% of our code base...

# ? Sep 11, 2012 17:55

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# ? May 15, 2024 07:00

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

yeah, image macros

# ? Sep 11, 2012 17:59

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

coding status: thinking of writing a trollbot to email all people listing things for $1 on craigslist telling them that I have flagged their ad and if they would like to repost it with a real price, i will be happy to not flag it

# ? Sep 11, 2012 18:01

EVGA Longoria: Dec 25, 2005; Let's go exploring!

Jonny 290 posted:

coding status: thinking of writing a trollbot to email all people listing things for $1 on craigslist telling them that I have flagged their ad and if they would like to repost it with a real price, i will be happy to not flag it

do it and post the source

# ? Sep 11, 2012 19:08

trex eaterofcadrs: Jun 17, 2005; My lack of understanding is only exceeded by my lack of concern.

JawnV6 posted:

But... macros were 25% of our code base...

if you're writing macros to make an awkward expression more fluid then good, for instance the thread macro (-> )

if you're writing macros when a function would do then you are being bad

# ? Sep 11, 2012 19:24

Bored Online: May 25, 2009; We don't need Rome telling us what to do.

Is Python still the hip programming language to learn programming with?

A cs major told me to start with java or python but now thanks to this thread I dunno if he was trolling me or not.

Also I program cnc machines for a living (in actual gcode as well as software) so maybe that transfers well to learning something specific. Tia.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:04

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

dont start w/ python. start w/ java or maybe groovy.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:05

trex eaterofcadrs: Jun 17, 2005; My lack of understanding is only exceeded by my lack of concern.

LegendofDongslayer. posted:

Is Python still the hip programming language to learn programming with?

A cs major told me to start with java or python but now thanks to this thread I dunno if he was trolling me or not.

Also I program cnc machines for a living (in actual gcode as well as software) so maybe that transfers well to learning something specific. Tia.

ugh gecode

what software do you use to interact with the mills?

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:28

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

LegendofDongslayer. posted:

Is Python still the hip programming language to learn programming with?

A cs major told me to start with java or python but now thanks to this thread I dunno if he was trolling me or not.

Also I program cnc machines for a living (in actual gcode as well as software) so maybe that transfers well to learning something specific. Tia.

python's a good base and wont teach you "bad" coding, but you still have to learn how to write good code

the more pressing issue is how we're going to bug you and sperg out on CNC machines, because we're all loving nerds here and you tipped your hand

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:29

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

In July 2009, Strachan wrote on his blog, "I can honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy."[2] Strachan left the project silently a year before the Groovy 1.0 release in 2007.[citation needed]
[edit]

sounds like a good language to me

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:29

Bored Online: May 25, 2009; We don't need Rome telling us what to do.

trex eaterofcadrs posted:

ugh gecode

what software do you use to interact with the mills?

For five years i was working with Kitamura mills and we programmed those exclusively with whatever the newest version of mastercam was at the time. For generic mill work though cam software is pretty interchangeable. Mastercam is what they taught at us at school as well. The lathes were mostly just ran with gcode using canned cycles which is typical.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:40

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

cnc machines are cool as hell and i'ma buy a lil desktop one for myself for my birthday and then never do anything with it

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:42

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

LegendofDongslayer. posted:

Is Python still the hip programming language to learn programming with?

A cs major told me to start with java or python but now thanks to this thread I dunno if he was trolling me or not.

Also I program cnc machines for a living (in actual gcode as well as software) so maybe that transfers well to learning something specific. Tia.

python is good to start with since you will make stuff in less time and lots of people start with python

code:

print "hello world"

java is a terrible language because there's lots of boilerplate and poo poo that the computer should be able to figure out on its own

code:

public class java {
    public static void main(String[] args) {
        System.out.println("Hello World");
    }
}

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:44

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

Cocoa Crispies posted:

python is good to start with since you will make stuff in less time and lots of people start with python
code:
print "hello world"
java is a terrible language because there's lots of boilerplate and poo poo that the computer should be able to figure out on its own
code:
public class java {
    public static void main(String[] args) {
        System.out.println("Hello World");
    }
}

so what you're saying is that python is a dymanic language and java is a static language?

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:55

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

gucci void main posted:

so what you're saying is that python is a dymanic language and java is a static language?

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:57

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

seriously though start with php. you have the advantages of starting with python (easy to make cool stuff pretty quick) plus it's a better language and people actually use it

# ? Sep 11, 2012 20:58

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

lol i just realized i typed dymanic

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:03

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

gucci void main posted:

so what you're saying is that python is a dymanic language and java is a static language?

no because there are statically typed languages that aren't horribly verbose

code:

main = putStrLn "hello world"

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:07

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

yaoi prophet posted:

no because there are statically typed languages that aren't horribly verbose
code:
main = putStrLn "hello world"

yes let's compare a functional programming language to an imperative one

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:10

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

the functional part isn't magic anti verbosity juice and has nothing to do with anything

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:14

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Otto Skorzeny posted:

the functional part isn't magic anti verbosity juice and has nothing to do with anything

neither is the dynamic/static part, php has boilerplate too

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:18

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

Cocoa Crispies posted:

neither is the dynamic/static part, php has boilerplate too

that's my point???? it's perfectly possible to have a concise statically typed language or a verbose dynamic one

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:19

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

Otto Skorzeny posted:

nothing to do with anything

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:20

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Jonny 290 posted:

python's a good base and wont teach you "bad" coding

this aint true. you will generate terrible typing and style habits if you use python.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:28

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

basically java is the best and theres no reason not to learn and use it. people who use python do so because they know java is better and they hate good things.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:29

Sharktopus: Aug 9, 2006

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:31

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

Shaggar posted:

basically java is the best and theres no reason not to learn and use it. people who use python do so because they know java is better and they hate good things.

Shaggar posted:

this aint true.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:37

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

yeah i guess there are some reasons not to learn and use java. like if you enjoy using bad languages (aka p-languages)

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:38

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

learn c#/some .net stuff, apply to hundreds of .net jobs posted online in any city you want

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:42

trex eaterofcadrs: Jun 17, 2005; My lack of understanding is only exceeded by my lack of concern.

yaoi prophet posted:

In July 2009, Strachan wrote on his blog, "I can honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy."[2] Strachan left the project silently a year before the Groovy 1.0 release in 2007.[citation needed]
[edit]

sounds like a good language to me

groovy is ok if you don't wander near the edges, plus even tho strachan is a super smart dude he kind of made a mess of the thing and the current team is fixing it

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:42

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

gucci void main posted:

learn c#/some .net stuff, apply to hundreds of .net jobs posted online in any city you want

it's really just the same six terrible enterprise cubicle jobs reposted by dozens of idiot recruiters

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:48

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

it probably wont surprise anyone that i dont really have a problem with verbosity. i mean, if your argument is "oh god its so much to type!!" then either harden the gently caress up or get an IDE with code completion or preferably both.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:52

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

verbosity in the java style is good because its easy to quickly understand whats going on.

the terrible shorthand shitshow that is the python standard style is one of the biggest reasons i hate python

# ? Sep 11, 2012 21:55

Quebec Bagnet: Apr 28, 2009; mess with the honk
you get the bonk; Lipstick Apathy

python makes me think!!! its so bad!!! - shagger

# ? Sep 11, 2012 22:09

multigl: Nov 22, 2005; "Who's cool and has two thumbs? This guy!"

Shaggar posted:

verbosity in the java style is good because its easy to quickly understand whats going on.

the terrible shorthand shitshow that is the python standard style is one of the biggest reasons i hate python

you don't actually need to post here anymore, thanks.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 22:10

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

rotor posted:

it probably wont surprise anyone that i dont really have a problem with verbosity. i mean, if your argument is "oh god its so much to type!!" then either harden the gently caress up or get an IDE with code completion or preferably both.

it's a pain to read

of course, so is the opposite extreme so i'm not condoning perl/ruby one-liners either

# ? Sep 11, 2012 22:11

Sharktopus: Aug 9, 2006

multigl posted:

you don't actually need to post here anymore, thanks.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 22:15

Catalyst-proof: May 11, 2011; better waste some time with you

go is a really fuckingw eird language. it's like... well it's weir dlol

# ? Sep 11, 2012 22:16

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

i would think java would be a bad language to teach programming with because high-level concepts like classes are forced onto people before they know how to program

like in that free stanford introductory course on youtube/itunes u, the students started out writing statements to move a sprite on screen, and the day the curtains were pulled and the java was exposed, the students had a ton of questions as they tried to reconcile what they were doing before with this weird new thing. the professor had to forcefully end the questions so he could move on

# ? Sep 11, 2012 22:24

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# ? May 15, 2024 07:00

gangnam reference: Dec 26, 2010; shut up idiot shut up idiot shut up idiot shut up idiot

No, this is what is actually true. Or rather, it is the theory that most accurately fits the facts. Pick any boost library. For example... *picks at random* the boost uuid library. It defines a struct that contains a 16-byte char array and has a few functions for creating UUIDs. It somehow uses or includes something that uses MPL.

Let's pick another ... *picks at random* the boost spirit library, probably the archetypal example. We implemented a bunch of spirit parsers and it's clearly overengineered garbage. Infinitely slow to compile, not fast or optimizable to run. It's always simpler, more debuggable, and more editable by coworkers, to pound out your own recursive descent parser, or to use some other method of building a parser.

Let's pick another ... *picks something "safe"* scoped_ptr. It has an implicit conversion operator. (And of course that's implemented by putting the line

code:

#include <boost/smart_ptr/detail/operator_bool.hpp>

in the middle of the class.)

Let's pick... shared_ptr: it is all mixed up with weak_ptr, to make it easier to make your code unnecessarily complicated.

Let's pick... boost serialization. "Oh, you want to serialize stuff? Sorry, you're using some slow library that wants to keep track of pointer graphs [and iirc, uses RTTI]."

The best example of making poo poo complicated for complete vanity is this binary conversion utility. It has a billion preprocessor expansions when you can just use a hexadecimal or octal constant, or convert at run time, or glue different field width sections together with a macro, or run an octal constant through some bitshifting...

code:

#define OCTAL_BINARY(x) (((((((((x) * 21ULL) & 0x9c0e070381c0e070ULL) * 0x1041) \
    & 0xff80001ff0000ULL) * 0x40001) >> 34) & 0x3ffff) | ((((x) * 1ULL) >> 42) \
    & (1 << 21)) | ((((x) * 21ULL) >> 40) & (7 << 18)))

It's very easy to create a "rationale" for any feature: you need it to do X. The argument against making things complicated is less tangible -- it is a sense learned by experience and not derivable through software philosophy.

# ? Sep 11, 2012 22:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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