Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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snuggle baby luvs hugs: Aug 30, 2005

Brown Moses posted:

Iran's Fars News Agency confuses The Onion with a real news organisation and reprints one of their stories (uncredited)

Maybe it will be a parody mistaken for reality that finally ends the conflict between our nations....

# ? Sep 28, 2012 16:25

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# ? May 18, 2024 19:33

camel melt: Sep 21, 2006

Volkerball posted:

Western Sahara gets no love either.

Or Mauritania, or the Berbers and/or Tuareg... maybe if I get time someday I'll do some digging re: Tuareg/Berber stuff.

colonelslime posted:

Not anything good.

The Islamists in power are implementing their particularly harsh version of Sharia law. In this case, 5 men who allegedly robbed a bus had a hand and a foot amputated.

The Economic Community Of West African States(ECOWAS)is planning to send troops, with the approval of the Malinese government, to help dislodge the Islamists.

Posted too soon I guess

camel melt fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Sep 28, 2012

# ? Sep 28, 2012 18:55

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Hah, the Onion article has had this added to it

quote:

For more on this story: Please visit our Iranian subsidiary organization, Fars.

# ? Sep 28, 2012 18:59

The Monkey Man: Jun 10, 2012; HERD U WERE TALKIN SHIT

The Fars page now just reads

quote:

Error For Your Request . Not Exist This Story.

# ? Sep 28, 2012 19:00

mitztronic: Jun 17, 2005; mixcloud.com/mitztronic

The Monkey Man posted:

The Fars page now just reads

Came to request if anyone took a screencap

# ? Sep 28, 2012 19:24

Pimpmust: Oct 1, 2008

mitztronic posted:

Came to request if anyone took a screencap

The Onion did
http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/29/29677/FARS.png

# ? Sep 28, 2012 19:29

mediadave: Sep 8, 2011

Any news of Caro? Is he in Syria yet?

From what I've read from Ghaith Abdul-Ahad for the Guardian and Antony Lloyd for the Times (beind paywall) if he goes to Aleppo he's gonna die. We were all thinking Misrata was Stalingrad v.2 but Aleppo is putting Misrata in the shade in terms of horror.

And since it seems the current Rebel offensive has faltered if not failed, there's no end in sight for poor Aleppo.

I have been reading the twitter feeds of pro-Assad Syrians. Including Allepans. It doesn't dissuade me that the Regime is the party in the wrong, oh no, but it is a reminder that this is indeed an ugly civil war.

# ? Sep 28, 2012 23:25

New Division: Jun 23, 2004; I beg to present to you as a Christmas gift, Mr. Lombardi, the city of Detroit.

I wouldn't write the rebel push off quite yet. It was never going to cause a complete collapse of the Syrian Army's position in one day. Enough sustained pressure might do the trick though.

# ? Sep 28, 2012 23:55

NAPALM STICKS TO: Jun 22, 2005

Brown Moses posted:

Here's a satellite photo analysis of the fighting in Aleppo, pretty interesting stuff
http://srhrl.aaas.org/geotech/syria/aleppo.htm

This is very interesting, but in the last few images, there are call-outs of supposed Hinds. Those look more like Hips than Hinds to me, but I'd want to look at the raw imagery to make sure. I am an imagery analyst, so Brown Moses, if you can acquire any raw imagery from your sources I could help you out.

# ? Sep 29, 2012 00:14

Lascivious Sloth: Apr 26, 2008; by sebmojo

quote:

Fighting in Aleppo, Syria's largest city, has intensified in what opposition fighters are calling the decisive battle.

Activists say fighters stormed a radio station, while government war planes bombed the city's outskirts, where rebels are often based.

The northern city of Aleppo, is of great strategic value, with key infrastructure links to Turkey.

# ? Sep 29, 2012 07:17

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Endorsing drones, barely talking about the poor economic situation. I'm sure this is going to play well locally...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/world/middleeast/yemens-leader-president-hadi-praises-us-drone-strikes.html posted:

WASHINGTON � The president of Yemen gave an unqualified endorsement of American drone strikes in his country during a visit here on Friday, cementing his status as a favored counterterrorism partner of the United States.

President Abdu Rabbu Mansour Hadi, elected in a one-candidate election in February, said at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars that the precision afforded by drones gave them a marked advantage over the aging Soviet aircraft in the Yemeni Air Force.

�They pinpoint the target and have zero margin of error, if you know what target you�re aiming at,� said Mr. Hadi, a former army officer and the successor to Ali Abdullah Saleh, who stepped down after protests against his three-decade rule.

The United States �helped with their drones because the Yemeni Air Force cannot carry out missions at night,� he said. �The electronic brain�s precision is unmatched by the human brain.�

Mr. Hadi expressed no concerns about any reaction against drone strikes, which critics and some government officials have said can fuel anti-American sentiment and feed militancy.

Though Mr. Saleh permitted counterterrorism strikes by American drones, cruise missiles and jets beginning in 2009, American officials have found Mr. Hadi a more reliable partner than his capricious predecessor. Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the terrorist network�s affiliate in Yemen, has mounted several plots against the United States.

On Tuesday, President Obama underscored America�s gratitude to Mr. Hadi by dropping by as the Yemeni president met in New York with John O. Brennan, Mr. Obama�s counterterrorism adviser. While Mr. Obama spoke briefly with several heads of state at a reception during the United Nations General Assembly meeting, Mr. Hadi was the only one singled out for a meeting.

Mr. Obama thanked Mr. Hadi for protecting the American Embassy and diplomats in Sana, the Yemeni capital, during the recent wave of protests against a crude American video insulting the Prophet Muhammad.

American military strikes in Yemen against those suspected of terrorism began in December 2009 and were suspended for months after May 2010, in part because of concern about civilian casualties and the killing of a deputy provincial governor. The C.I.A. and the United States military later resumed strikes using missiles fired from drone aircraft, including the strike in 2011 that killed the American-born militant cleric Anwar al-Awlaki and another American.

By the count of The Long War Journal, a Web site that tracks counterterrorism operations, there have been 33 American strikes in Yemen this year, compared with 10 last year.

The attacks increased as Al Qaeda and its allies seized parts of two provinces, Abyan and Shabwa, amid the chaos related to a power struggle in Sana. Yemeni forces, which Mr. Hadi said were led by paramilitary groups, later ousted Qaeda fighters from several towns.

�Now they are scattered all over,� Mr. Hadi said of the Qaeda supporters. �But they will never regain the force they once had.�

Mr. Hadi said the deep poverty of Yemen, which is running out of oil and water, �is nurturing Al Qaeda.� He said the $1.5 billion pledged by international donors on Thursday would help Yemen avoid civil war, which he said would be �catastrophic� for the region and the world.

# ? Sep 29, 2012 10:30

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

CJ Chivers has written another great piece from Syria looking at the situation in the Aleppo and Idlib countryside, Fleeing Syrians Struggle in Countryside Amid Indiscriminate Violence.

More interestingly Al Arabiya claim to have what could be evidence of a pretty significant development

quote:

Turkish pilots killed by Assad, not crash: leaked documents

As political tensions mount between neighboring Syria and Turkey, newly-leaked Syrian intelligence documents obtained by Al Arabiya disclose shocking claims shedding light on the dreadful fate of two Turkish Air Force pilots.

Contrary to what was publically claimed, the documents reveal that the pilots survived the crash, but were later executed by the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad!

This disclosure is the first in a series of revelations based on a number of newly-leaked and highly classified Syrian security documents which will be aired in a special program produced by Al Arabiya over the next two weeks; the channel�s English portal � http://english.alarabiya.net � will be carrying a subtitled version of the program on daily basis as well as publishing downloadable copies of the leaked documents.

The documents were obtained with the assistance of members of the Syrian opposition who refused to elaborate on how they laid hand on the documents.

Al Arabiya said that it has verified and authenticated hundreds of these documents and that it is has decided to disclose the ones with substantial news value and political relevance.
The downed jet

On June 22, a Turkish military jet was shot down by a Syrian missile in international airspace, Ankara�s official report said; a claim Damascus has refuted.

Assad�s regime said the country�s defense forces shot down the two-seater F-4 Phantom as it was in the Syrian airspace.

In an interview with Turkish paper Cumhuriyet published in July, Assad said he wished his forces did not shoot down the jet, claiming that Damascus did not know the identity of the plane at the time.

The incident set off tensions between the former allies, but Ankara, which had vowed a harsh response to any border violations by Syria, limited its reaction to sending military reinforcements to the common frontiers.

The two pilots on board of the jet were killed.

But both official reports by Syria and Turkey have restrained their explanation on the causes of the deaths of Air Force Captain Gokhan Ertan and Air Force Lieutenant Hasan Huseyin Aksoy.

Turkey�s armed forces said it had found the bodies of both pilots on the Mediterranean seabed.

�The bodies (of the two pilots) have been recovered [from] the seabed and work is underway to bring them to the surface,� the army command said in a statement released early in July.

The military did not specify where the bodies were found, but there has been no report that the pilots ejected from the plane.

However, after investigating the leaked documents it obtained, Al Arabiya can now reveal for the first time an alternative narrative of what might have happened to the two Turkish pilots.

One highly confidential document was sent directly from the presidential office of President Assad to brigadier Hassan Abdel Rahman (who Al Arabiya�s sources identify as the chief of the Syrian Special Operations Unit) states the following:

�Two Turkish pilots were captured by the Syrian Air Force Intelligence after their jet was shot down in coordination with the Russian naval base in (the Syrian city of) Tartus.�

The file therefore reveals two critical reports. First, the pilots were still alive after the plane had crashed. And second, that Russia held its share of involvement in this secretive mission.

The same document orders the concerned parties to treat both Turkish pilots according to the protocol of war prisoners, as instructed by the president.

It also requests that both men be investigated about Turkey�s role in supporting the Free Syrian Army (FSA), the country�s main armed opposition group.

The report also suggests the possibility of transferring the pilots into the neighboring Lebanese territory, leaving them in the custody of Assad�s ally, Hezbollah.

However, if the Turkish air commanders were not killed upon the crash of their F-4 Phantom, further leaked documents confirm that their death was inevitable.
Russian �Guidance�

A subsequently leaked file, also sent from the presidential palace and addressed to all heads of units of the Syrian foreign intelligence, reads: �Based on information and guidance from the Russian leadership comes a need to eliminate the two Turkish pilots detained by the Special Operations Unit in a natural way and their bodies need to be returned to the crash site in international waters.�

The document also suggests the Syrian government sends a �menacing� message to the Turkish government, insinuating Syria�s capability of mobilizing Kurdistan�s Workers Party (PKK) on the Turkish borders, notifying Ankara from the danger it might face in case of any hostile move.

The report insists that the Syrian leadership should hasten and make a formal apology to the Turkish government for bringing down the plane, which would embarrass the Turks and win the support of international public opinion. As such, the Syrian Regime did apologize.

Al Arabiya�s exclusive series on the newly-leaked Syrian security documents continues tomorrow.

# ? Sep 29, 2012 20:49

J33uk: Oct 24, 2005

So what's the over/under of how long it takes Russia to deny everything? If there really is solid evidence of any of this then it's going to be quite the diplomatic shitstorm. I still don't see it changing too much of anything but it'll ratchet the tension up.

# ? Sep 29, 2012 23:50

Smashurbanipal: Sep 12, 2009; ASK ME ABOUT BEING A SHITTY POSTER

What reasonable reason would the Russians have for ordering or suggesting the killing of the two pilots. This is pretty drat suspicious, especially considering that Al-Arabiya is wholly in the Saudi pocket.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 01:28

Best Friends: Nov 4, 2011

The story then is they were captured at the crash site at sea, interrogated, then killed and their bodies put back at the crash site? That all seems incredibly complicated, and very hard to do without Turkey becoming aware. But, what do I know.

According to Haaretz:

quote:

The plane's wreckage, with the bodies of the its two crew members still trapped inside, was found on the Mediterranean seabed in early July.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/report-acting-on-russian-intel-syria-forces-murdered-pilots-of-downed-turkey-jet-1.467457

I don't get this.

Best Friends fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Sep 30, 2012

# ? Sep 30, 2012 01:46

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Probably propaganda, then.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 01:55

Lascivious Sloth: Apr 26, 2008; by sebmojo

Al Arabiya do this all the time, they make up some story or are fed false information and then it turns out it was completely falsified and seems intended to create an uproar that would benefit the Sauds. The only news I trust that has always had a good record reporting the Middle East is Al Jazeera English, but that said, no one is perfect.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 02:22

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

Whatever happened to the bodies of the Turkish pilots? Were they returned to Turkey? Because if they were then it might be obvious that there was some foul play involved after autopsies.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 03:49

New Division: Jun 23, 2004; I beg to present to you as a Christmas gift, Mr. Lombardi, the city of Detroit.

Charliegrs posted:

Whatever happened to the bodies of the Turkish pilots? Were they returned to Turkey? Because if they were then it might be obvious that there was some foul play involved after autopsies.

Turkey would have cried foul if there were evidence of foul play. They have no reason to cover for Russia and Syria.

It's pretty obvious that this info is suspect. Russia recommending the deaths of the Turkish pilots does not make sense unless you think they are evil just for the hell of it.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 03:52

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

To be fair to the al-Arabiya story, the way I read it is that the Russians were involved with the initial shootdown (like providing radar support, for example) but not necessarily with the decision to execute the pilots once captured.

The story is still almost certainly bullshit though, for the reasons other people have brought up.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 04:17

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

War...war never changes.

Remember the Maine, guys.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 04:38

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

McDowell posted:

War...war never changes.

Remember the Maine, guys.

Except by all accounts the Syria loyalists actually did shoot down that plane, whereas the Maine sank because of an internal explosion and not a mine.

These situations are almost nothing alike.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 04:53

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Except by all accounts the Syria loyalists actually did shoot down that plane, whereas the Maine sank because of an internal explosion and not a mine.

These situations are almost nothing alike.

I'm talking about media outlets having pro-war agendas. There were alot of sensational stories about the sinking to produce support for the Spanish American War. Or a 'leaked document' that takes an international incident and spins it into a very provocative act of aggression.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 04:56

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

It's still a garbage comparison because it's one news outlet instead of many doing the shilling and we aren't even sure it's a deliberate effort to provoke a war (although it would be completely unsurprising if it was).

# ? Sep 30, 2012 06:50

EvanTH: Apr 24, 2004; i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd

I've unlocked the most recent War Nerd for the next 48 hours if anybody's like to read John Dolan as Gary Brecker discuss the Taliban victory over a bunch of really loving stupid planes that shouldn't have been in that dumb desert in the first place:

http://nsfwcorp.co/4wvvsy

edit: NSFWcorp has an interesting business model, and since I don't mind paying $3 a month for Good Content [or at least Stuff I Like] I'm trying this subscriber-unlocking-thing instead of just C&Ping the article. Plus it's a long article and I wouldn't want anybody to not read every word of my posts.

EvanTH fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Sep 30, 2012

# ? Sep 30, 2012 07:00

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

God that was a loving terrible article, it's not so much analysis as a guy trying to sound clever about having opinions about things.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 07:08

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

God that was a loving terrible article, it's not so much analysis as a guy trying to sound clever about having opinions about things.

That's the War Nerd in a nutshell.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 07:10

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Young Freud posted:

That's the War Nerd in a nutshell.

I also have to give him credit for shoehorning his ridiculous raging hardon against aircraft carriers into an article about Afghanistan.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 07:11

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/yemeni-president-acknowledges-approving-us-drone-strikes/2012/09/29/09bec2ae-0a56-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_story.html posted:

Yemen�s leader said Saturday that he personally approves every U.S. drone strike in his country and described the remotely piloted aircraft as a technical marvel that has helped reverse al-Qaeda�s gains.

President Abed Rabbo Mansour Hadi also provided new details about the monitoring of counterterrorism missions from a joint operations center in Yemen that he said is staffed by military and intelligence personnel from the United States, Saudi Arabia and Oman.
...

This is almost assuredly nonsense (US would never give him that authority) and a really dumb thing to say. Not sure what the point was.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 07:17

EvanTH: Apr 24, 2004; i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

God that was a loving terrible article, it's not so much analysis as a guy trying to sound clever about having opinions about things.

Hah, well, it's partially a schtick. Gary Brecker intended as a very narrow sort of a greasy freak of a person.

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

I also have to give him credit for shoehorning his ridiculous raging hardon against aircraft carriers into an article about Afghanistan.

But I guess you already knew that

He most certainly doesn't like aircraft carriers.

If anyone here's never met John Dolan as Gary Brecker's writing this piece from 2006 on Asymmetrical Warfare might not be the worst place to start with him?

Any articles linked from The Exile may be mildly NSFW because of links in the sidebars to stories of Ames having sex with Russian prostitutes. John Dolan as John Dolan has written some real life-changing articles on topics like cool stories about Mongol hordes and why the LoTR movies filled nerd fans of the book with a terrible empty feeling, and it's really all lovely stuff you should read him if you don't already.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 07:18

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Why exactly would I want to read his Cracked-level analysis of things?

# ? Sep 30, 2012 07:22

EvanTH: Apr 24, 2004; i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd

Well, if you--

Hey, wait a minute! By beginning to answer that question I'd have to implicitly agree with your primary assumption!

I'm starting to think your sentence is rhetorically dishonest in its phrasing :mad:

# ? Sep 30, 2012 07:31

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Xandu posted:

This is almost assuredly nonsense (US would never give him that authority) and a really dumb thing to say. Not sure what the point was.

I think it's just him trying to subtly tell his people that he's in charge, and totally not a US puppet leader.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 07:50

MothraAttack: Apr 28, 2008

Charliegrs posted:

Whatever happened to the bodies of the Turkish pilots? Were they returned to Turkey? Because if they were then it might be obvious that there was some foul play involved after autopsies.

They were found with the help of Robert Ballard, the undersea expert who helped locate the Titanic wreckage. They were then buried in well-documented ceremonies.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 08:03

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

MothraAttack posted:

They were found with the help of Robert Ballard, the undersea expert who helped locate the Titanic wreckage. They were then buried in well-documented ceremonies.

Probably less puppet and more incapable of actually stopping US drone attacks. He'd rather be unpopular than be seen as a illegitimate and powerless.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 08:27

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

Rent-A-Cop posted:

MothraAttack posted:
They were found with the help of Robert Ballard, the undersea expert who helped locate the Titanic wreckage. They were then buried in well-documented ceremonies.

Probably less puppet and more incapable of actually stopping US drone attacks. He'd rather be unpopular than be seen as a illegitimate and powerless.

Roger Ballard is a cunning man, I wouldn't put anything past him

# ? Sep 30, 2012 08:56

AtomikKrab: Jul 17, 2010; Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Xandu posted:

This is almost assuredly nonsense (US would never give him that authority) and a really dumb thing to say. Not sure what the point was.

Maybe he means he APPROVES OF them? Then again it does make it harder for people to complain about US drone strikes if the Leader of Yemen is giving the button push the OK. I'm not sure how I feel about this statement... might make him look like a fool I don't think it possibly will do much else if anything.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 10:17

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Anyone interested in Arab economies, especially Egypt, should be following this blog.

https://rebeleconomy.com

# ? Sep 30, 2012 10:54

THE AWESOME GHOST: Oct 21, 2005

Xandu posted:

Anyone interested in Arab economies, especially Egypt, should be following this blog.

https://rebeleconomy.com

Hey I work in ME Finance, this stuff is very interesting. Thanks for the link.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 11:17

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# ? May 18, 2024 19:33

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

I also have to give him credit for shoehorning his ridiculous raging hardon against aircraft carriers into an article about Afghanistan.

He's right about STOVL being dumb and pointless though.

# ? Sep 30, 2012 11:50

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