|
My problem with the first four X-Wing books (the Stackpole set) is that everyone ends up feeling a little too badass. Everyone is the very model of a military pilot. Wraith Squadron feels a lot more relatable to me...which is a point the book itself brings up early on.
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 02:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 15:53 |
|
|
I also enjoyed Wraith Squadron more than the Rogue Squadron books. It has a lot to do, I think, with how the Wraith Squadron characters are better written. A lot of the guys in Rogue Squadron were there to just fill out the roster and had no real character. I think there was one guy who might have had one line. Wraith Squadron does a much better job of characterizing the squad, making them much more enjoyable to read about. Not that Rogue Squadron was terrible about the characters, it's just that there were maybe 6 guys who got any significant screen time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 04:12
|
|
|
Houseplant posted:Soooo... since there are something like eleven thousand posts in this thread and I don't want to deal with accidentally catching spoilers (I already have thanks to the Wookieepedia I stopped at the 5th book cause I just couldn't give a poo poo about Wraith Squadron. Corran Horn is one of my favorite characters from the EU, so without him and the rest of the Rogues I stopped caring.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 04:38
|
|
), I will just say this and be on my way:
|
The first four X-wing books are the Corran Horn show. Every woman loves him, he always saves the day and I'm pretty sure he 'dies' and mysteriously comes back in every book. Gavin Darklighter gets some page time, same with Wedge and Tycho, but those characters are pretty flat when written by Stackpole. They're there to back up Corran by being almost as good as he is. The Wraiths were more of an ensemble cast and you get to know them all a whole lot better, so when they die it can be a little devastating. Keep up with the Wraith squadron books and I bet that when your finished, you'll groan when you try and re-read the first four. I'll take Allston's Wedge over Stackpole's any day. I think Wedge's speech to some general at the start of book 5 is Allston talking to his publisher/audience directly. Stuff about how nobody could relate to the Rogue Squadron characters so he's making a new set of characters up. There's also a joke in book 7 that Han Solo and Corran Horn have never been seen in the same room together... Lastly, I still love to rage about how Corran is Stackpoles self-insertion into the Star Wars franchise. A total Gary Stu, pointing out how other characters and events set in motion by other authors are stupid done in a whole book done in first person... And the fact that although he looks nothing like the character he describes, Stackpole posed as Corran Horn for a photo used in some trading card game. Forgive me, but I love the Wraith books so goddamn much. Epi Lepi posted:I stopped at the 5th book cause I just couldn't give a poo poo about Wraith Squadron. Corran Horn is one of my favorite characters from the EU, so without him and the rest of the Rogues I stopped caring. Book 8 in the series totally ignores the events of 5,6 and 7 and continues with the Corran/Isard storyline. Also, do yourself a favour and read Starfighters of Adumar.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 05:56
|
|
|
That's a lot of information to absorb and I really like what I'm hearing about Wraith Squadron and what the next few books will hopefully bring. It puts everything in a different light when I think about how much the first four books focused on only a handful of characters. I mean, even in the first half of book five I've seen a lot more variation in characters so I should take that as a good thing  It is good to know, though, that book 8 picks up after 4 in case I do end up wanting to go back to that story arc. Carnaticum posted:Also, do yourself a favour and read Starfighters of Adumar. I have the whole series right now up to that book so I'm going to get them all in for sure.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 08:37
|
|
|
I finally picked up Death Troopers and Red Harvest, but which should I read first? I know Red Harvest is a prequel, but since it was written after Death Troopers I"m assuming the author intended DT to be read first?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 10:16
|
|
|
Epi Lepi posted:I stopped at the 5th book cause I just couldn't give a poo poo about Wraith Squadron. Corran Horn is one of my favorite characters from the EU, so without him and the rest of the Rogues I stopped caring. I despise him. Like, it's not an issue with him personally, but every book I've seen him written in as a main character he comes off as the definition of a Gary Stu author write-in. I mean, look at I, Jedi: It was basically a retcon of a previous trilogy where he shows up, tells Luke Skywalker that "he's doing it wrong", and  s his way out of the training program to make like batman with a lightsaber and mind control.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 10:31
|
|
|
Esroc posted:I finally picked up Death Troopers and Red Harvest, but which should I read first? I know Red Harvest is a prequel, but since it was written after Death Troopers I"m assuming the author intended DT to be read first? It honestly doesn't matter. They're only a duology because they're both by the same author and both have zombies. The only real connecting link is Red Harvest helps explain the mechanism by which the undead exist a bit more than Death Troopers does, but feel free to read them in either order.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 15:02
|
|
|
Ursine Asylum posted:I despise him. Like, it's not an issue with him personally, but every book I've seen him written in as a main character he comes off as the definition of a Gary Stu author write-in. I mean, look at I, Jedi: It was basically a retcon of a previous trilogy where he shows up, tells Luke Skywalker that "he's doing it wrong", and I agree with the Corran is a Mary Sue argument, but I still enjoyed I, Jedi. And let's be honest, if you're going to retcon the poo poo out of anything KJA's stuff is a good place to start.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 15:07
|
|
|
Yeah, I, Jedi was pretty alright. You just have to cope with Stackpole sometimes.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 15:16
|
|
|
astr0man posted:I agree with the Corran is a Mary Sue argument, but I still enjoyed I, Jedi. And let's be honest, if you're going to retcon the poo poo out of anything KJA's stuff is a good place to start. Exactly, everything he retconned was terrible.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 18:12
|
|
|
astr0man posted:And let's be honest, if you're going to retcon the poo poo out of anything KJA's stuff is a good place to start. That much I can agree with, but if you're going to retcon KJA, please at least start with  . Time to go reread the Hand of Thrawn duology so that I can keep remembering Pallaeon as "distinguished badass".
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 21:17
|
|
|
Was Pallaeon in the Jedi Academy Trilogy? As far as I'm aware KJA wrote him in Darksaber, which I think was a worse book than any of the Jedi Academy series.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 23:01
|
|
|
Metal Loaf posted:Was Pallaeon in the Jedi Academy Trilogy? As far as I'm aware KJA wrote him in Darksaber, which I think was a worse book than any of the Jedi Academy series.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 23:05
|
|
|
I honestly don't think Darksaber is that bad (by KJA standards, that is). I could at least get through it without multiple breaks for other books, which is more than I can say for the Jedi Academy Trilogy, and also the two Callista novels that bookend it are each far worse, unbelievable as it may seem.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 03:41
|
|
|
Esroc posted:I finally picked up Death Troopers and Red Harvest, but which should I read first? I know Red Harvest is a prequel, but since it was written after Death Troopers I"m assuming the author intended DT to be read first? Neither. Throw both books into the nearest incinerator. There is no value whatsoever from reading them. Seriously, I read Red Harvest for the "Let's Read" thread and it sent me into an internet ragefit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 05:26
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:I honestly don't think Darksaber is that bad (by KJA standards, that is). I could at least get through it without multiple breaks for other books, which is more than I can say for the Jedi Academy Trilogy, and also the two Callista novels that bookend it are each far worse, unbelievable as it may seem. Darksaber is a good read if you are a junior high school student, love Star Wars, and love reading about numbers of Star Destroyers
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 05:40
|
|
|
SirPhoebos posted:Neither. Throw both books into the nearest incinerator. There is no value whatsoever from reading them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 05:57
|
|
|
Carnaticum posted:The first four X-wing books are the Corran Horn show. Every woman loves him, he always saves the day and I'm pretty sure he 'dies' and mysteriously comes back in every book. Gavin Darklighter gets some page time, same with Wedge and Tycho, but those characters are pretty flat when written by Stackpole. They're there to back up Corran by being almost as good as he is. The Wraiths were more of an ensemble cast and you get to know them all a whole lot better, so when they die it can be a little devastating. Also, if you LOOOOVE Corran, go read Stackpoles battletech. Corran is basically Phelan Kell with psychic powers. Hell, if you tried hard enough you could probably dig out every character between the series that Stackpoles written. Wedge=Vic Davion (after a sorts) Tycho= Galen Cox Corran=Phelan Kell Iella Warssi= Dr. Chick Mirax Terrik=Young Natasha Kerenskey The basic personalities are the same, with only the aging being slightly different, and the powers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 07:42
|
|
|
Urdnot Fire posted:He was not, though he was in Darksaber as you thought. Wasn't that the Jedi Academy Trilogy? I could have sworn the JAT was the one that involved Dorsk #whatever throwing Star Destroyers through the system with the power of his mind while Luke was having his out-of-body experience. if you couldn't tell I haven't read them in awhile
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 18:56
|
|
|
Ursine Asylum posted:Wasn't that the Jedi Academy Trilogy? I could have sworn the JAT was the one that involved Dorsk #whatever throwing Star Destroyers through the system with the power of his mind while Luke was having his out-of-body experience. if you couldn't tell I haven't read them in awhile
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 19:11
|
|
|
I'd rather have KJA in charge right now in place of Troy Denning.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 20:53
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:I'd rather have KJA in charge right now in place of Troy Denning. KJA at least has imagination, sure it is dumb over the top fantasy pastel coloured imagination that doesn't fit the genre but compared to Denning and his shite....
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 20:57
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:KJA at least has imagination, sure it is dumb over the top fantasy pastel coloured imagination that doesn't fit the genre but compared to Denning and his shite.... I guess that's true. It takes imagination to come up with that many different super weapons. "This one...blows up an entire solar system! And this next one, well, it only blows up a planet again...but it looks like a giant lightsaber!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 21:05
|
|
|
Anderson's books had a certain twisted grandeur to them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 21:21
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:I guess that's true. It takes imagination to come up with that many different super weapons. "This one...blows up an entire solar system! And this next one, well, it only blows up a planet again...but it looks like a giant lightsaber!" To be fair, the book's prose emphasizes that the Darksaber was not designed to resemble a lightsaber, that just happened to occur due to the design necessities of "all the components of the Death Star super laser, sans the fighter hangers, living quarters, and compensatory ego massaging size"
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 21:22
|
|
|
Let's talk coffee table books. I love books like this and this. What are really good, must have books? Cross sections, encyclopedias, etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 16:32
|
|
|
alg posted:Let's talk coffee table books. The big three-volume Star Wars Encyclopedia set is pretty cool. It does suffer a bit from being published in 2008 and is a bit out of date now, but its still a fun thing to have around. I would also recommend the Star Wars Complete Cross-Sections book. You're not going to find anything earth shattering in there, but its really nifty. Not sure if you consider them coffee-table books or not, but the Essential Guides are a long-time favorite of mine, especially the "3rd Wave" of them (Essential Guide to the Force, Essential Guide to Warfare, Essential Atlas, and the just-released Essential Reader's Companion)
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 16:43
|
|
|
This book is literally a coffee table book: http://www.theblueprintsbook.com/ You can seriously add four legs to it and have a table. It's the largest book by dimension that I own. I'm not sure if I'd categorize it as "must have" though, especially at the price ($500).
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2012 21:04
|
|
|
Ursine Asylum posted:That much I can agree with, but if you're going to retcon KJA, please at least start with The funny thing is that's mostly a post-Zahn fan idea that the books picked up. How I remember it is until about ten years ago, guy was just written as a by-the-book Imperial who wasn't cartoonishly evil and ends up in charge of poo poo mainly through the process of attrition in these Star Wars. Certainly his role in the first books was to be a doctrinaire foil to Thrawn's genius.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 01:31
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:The funny thing is that's mostly a post-Zahn fan idea that the books picked up. How I remember it is until about ten years ago, guy was just written as a by-the-book Imperial who wasn't cartoonishly evil and ends up in charge of poo poo mainly through the process of attrition in these Star Wars. Certainly his role in the first books was to be a doctrinaire foil to Thrawn's genius. Well, he was from Zahn, and used by nobody else. Until Anderson decided to dredge him up from the netherworld to play second in command to Dalla (of all people... seriously her highest command was 4 Star Destroyers, while Palleon was in charge of the entire imperial fleet, TWICE). Of course, we all know how that went, with a Jedi tossing 12 Star destroyers, and then the elimination of an SSD... somehow. Finally Zahn took him back and made him the protege of Thrawn who kicked everyone in the face and out thought a mentally altered clone, who had thrawns mindset/strategic thinking.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 05:17
|
|
|
yronic heroism posted:The funny thing is that's mostly a post-Zahn fan idea that the books picked up. How I remember it is until about ten years ago, guy was just written as a by-the-book Imperial who wasn't cartoonishly evil and ends up in charge of poo poo mainly through the process of attrition in these Star Wars. Certainly his role in the first books was to be a doctrinaire foil to Thrawn's genius. Oh, for sure. It's just that in the entirety of the EU, he's the only person I can think of who's both recurring and doesn't come off as a cartoon supervillain. He's the Empire's "Reader PoV" for the Thrawn trilogy, is shown to have actually learned a thing or two during his (brief) role in the Hand of Thrawn duology, and has a couple decent appearances in NJO and later. I think the only possible addendum to the "interesting and moderately sympathetic bad guy" is Allston's take on Zsinj. Stackpole and Anderson wouldn't recognize a subtle bad guy if one walked up and hit them in the face with a bat. Stackpole's obsessive need to end every chapter with a melodramatic phrase don't help with that. Edit: Calax posted:Finally Zahn took him back and made him the protege of Thrawn who kicked everyone in the face and out thought a mentally altered clone, who had thrawns mindset/strategic thinking. To be fair that was mostly from Karrde's subplot. Or so I thought. The exact contents of the datapad from Jorj "Ex Machina" Car'das' library was never explicitly stated, but I'm pretty sure the clone's entire history was part of that. Alliterate Addict fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Oct 4, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 07:42
|
|
|
So I finally made my way through to the end of the Fate of the Jedi series. I can't work out whether or not it was worse that LOTF. On one hand, I think the plot (whilst I massively disagree with the direction) and writing was better in LOTF, FOTJ had far fewer aspects of the plot that had long-term, damaging effects on the overall EU. What a dreadful 7 or so years it has been for the Del Rey licence. I'm one of those who loved the NJO for being daring, suitably epic, actually evolving the characters and giving the movies' protagonists a suitable sign-off. The 22 "ongoing series" books that have gone since have been at the best of times unimaginative and dull, at the worst of times destructive and/or ridiculous. And still featuring the same, tired characters, who are now pushing 70 years old.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 13:31
|
|
|
The Del Rey licenced books have long worn out their welcome now in this threads general opinion.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 15:23
|
|
|
DougieFFC posted:What a dreadful 7 or so years it has been for the Del Rey licence. I'm one of those who loved the NJO for being daring, suitably epic, actually evolving the characters and giving the movies' protagonists a suitable sign-off. The 22 "ongoing series" books that have gone since have been at the best of times unimaginative and dull, at the worst of times destructive and/or ridiculous. And still featuring the same, tired characters, who are now pushing 70 years old. I think that's the most disappointing development we've seen since the conclusion of the NJO series. Even though that series was, to a particular degree, all about setting up the new generation of Jedi, subsequent series seem to have sidelined those characters in favour of keeping the spotlight on the heroes of the movies.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 16:10
|
|
|
One thing I think sometimes more "hard core" fans lose sight of is the fact that Del Rey and Lucas Licensing are still trying to run a viable business, and the commonly accepted key to that is constantly attracting new customers. Random Joe Schmoe off the street has no idea who Jaina Solo, Jag Fel, and Tahiri Velia are. Hell, Joe Schmoe probably doesn't know who Wedge Antillies, Wes Janson, and Dengar are either, and they were actually in the films. The core business model they've settled on is "milk Han, Luke, and Leia for all their worth" because they are the only characters from the classic trilogy era that they can bank on non-fans to know about. We've been getting lots of non-"Big Three" stories lately, but none of then have been in the post-ROTJ, pushing the timeline forward era. We've got stuff like the two Zombie books, the Old Republic tie-ins, Scourge, stuff like that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 16:32
|
|
|
Counterpoint: Mercy Kill.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 16:41
|
|
|
api call girl posted:Counterpoint: Mercy Kill. Its not a hard and fast rule by any means, yeah, we got Mercy Kill, which dealt with a major plotline from the FOTJ books. But its the odd one out in a veritable sea of Han/Luke/Leia-centric books.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 16:51
|
|
|
Carnaticum posted:The first four X-wing books are the Corran Horn show. Every woman loves him, he always saves the day and I'm pretty sure he 'dies' and mysteriously comes back in every book. Gavin Darklighter gets some page time, same with Wedge and Tycho, but those characters are pretty flat when written by Stackpole. They're there to back up Corran by being almost as good as he is. The Wraiths were more of an ensemble cast and you get to know them all a whole lot better, so when they die it can be a little devastating. You typed everything I was going to post. Stackpole did the same thing in most of his Battletech books, switching between Kai Allard Liao, Victor Steiner-Davion, and Phelan Kell Wolf Ward. Gary Stus get long names in the Stackpole universe.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 17:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 15:53 |
|
|
jivjov posted:The core business model they've settled on is "milk Han, Luke, and Leia for all their worth" because they are the only characters from the classic trilogy era that they can bank on non-fans to know about. I recognise this, but the solution could always to be to fill in the gaps elsewhere in the timeline. 10-20 years post-ROTJ, for instance, is very sparse, and there still seems to be space in the 3 years between ANH and ESB as we've seen with Zahn's recent novels. Similarly, between ROTJ and 4 years post-ROTJ there is very little featuring the main protagonists. The issue, of course, is that Del Rey came up with this 9 book, 3-authors-writing-simultaneously-so-we-can-push-books-out-quicker, "epic" series format, that requires a big space and lots of freedom to play around in. But my point is that if you want to tell stories featuring familiar characters in order to sell to more casual fans, you can do it without featuring them as geriatrics. Fortunately they are starting to realise this, but they should have fixed it after the abortion that was LOTF, and spared us the tedious affair that was FOTJ. I'm actually pretty happy with the output from Del Rey outside the "epic" series in recent years - I thought Darth Plagueis is one of the best SW novels there has ever been, Zahn's novels have been decent, and the other stuff (Kemp's novels, SWTOR tie-ins) has been okay. I just want to pretend like everything after NJO never happened. Edit: I've been so bogged down by FOTJ that I haven't read Mercy Kill yet - is it any good?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2012 18:32
|
|