|
The esteemed families of Oliver wish to have better access to the rest of the state, and the world through the ports of New Sanctum, as well as better access to their own mills. To that effect, they form the Hartshire, Oliver, Middleport, and New Sanctum Company to build the Hartshire, Oliver, Middleport, and New Sanctum Line. This will start in Hartshire, in a part of town far enough away from the mills to keep the rabble away, but close enough that it's an easy carriage ride for the owners to check into the mill. The route will mostly follow the river into Oliver. Oliver will be a grand station, designed by the finest architects of Europe, clad in Italian marble and granite, with ceilings covered in Fresco painted by Europe's most famous architects. From Oliver to Middleport will follow the old Indian road then the Canal into Middleport, with a station in Middleport similar in location to that of Hartshire. From Hartshire to West Sanctum (the route never actually goes into New Sanctum proper, despite the name) will again follow the river and Indian road, where it will connect to docks in West Sanctum, allowing a direct connection from the train station to a steamer ship to points along the Eastern seaboard and Europe. The trains on this route will the the pinnacle of luxury. The interiors are created with the finest materials and the best materials the world has to offer, as well as personnel drink service from car attendants (the route wouldn't be long enough for meal service, would it? If it is, they have a dining car staffed by French chefs). After a few years of service, they see a lot of demand for transport from the mill workers and new immigrants to go between the cities of Middleport, Hartshire, and the docks at West Sanctum. These passengers can't afford the luxurious trains that the residents of Oliver can, so a bypass is built that skips Oliver, and is run with cheaper, much more crowded cars.
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 19:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 13:40 |
|
|
Volmarias posted:See the triple edit above; as long as I Barely Gnu Her is fine with sharing the bridge and the terminal, so am I. Consider it synergy! Otherwise, route north, as we both mentioned. For a small stake in the Hartshire and Fairport Line, certainly  Let's say 20%. (Can we do that? If not, no deal. We were here first.  )
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 19:16
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:See the triple edit above; as long as I Barely Gnu Her is fine with sharing the bridge and the terminal, so am I. Consider it synergy! Otherwise, route north, as we both mentioned. I've provisionally routed it along the same bridge, or at least one close alongside. I did upgrade the Green-Waterbridge road, as well.  nielsm posted:Doesn't the Fukov form the border between Summerfield and Winchester? Well, I intend to let the railroad stay west of the river, so if it can't follow it fully into Winchester, it should just depart from the river and continue to the next larger destination there. Ah, ok! Wincester is the name of a city, not the whole state, but I can see why that's ambiguous. I'll put your RR alongside the existing road.  SlothfulCobra posted:Our interstate transit is sorely lacking. Let's extend a canal from Waterbridge to New Cork, and improve the roads from Hartshire to Waterbridge. I'm not sure where you'd like the canal to go; there's already one from Waterbridge to Fairport, and that's about as straight a shot to New Cork City as you'll get. If you want to go straight East, let me know, I'll punch it right under the new railroad. As for the road:  With two new bridges over non-navigable rivers, to boot. ZombieApostate posted:I would like to build a railroad from New Dublin, through Norham, Opiantic, and Killingham to Salvation, because clearly we need to better connect Opiantic and Salvation. However it seems like it would rely on building small bypass canals at river crossings in Opiantic and Killingham to be able to build it along the east side of the river and actually travel through the cities. At least until we can build real bridges. The other option would, I suppose, be to build on the west side of the river and ferry goods across at each stop. The east side of the river at Opiantic is up against some cliffs. Let's put it on the west side, and we can open up plenty of new development that way, too. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 19:17
|
|
|
Cichlidae posted:The east side of the river at Opiantic is up against some cliffs. Let's put it on the west side, and we can open up plenty of new development that way, too. Ha, I took a bit closer look at the topography along the route after I posted and was wondering if that mountain was going to be a problem.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 19:23
|
|
|
FISHMANPET posted:The esteemed families of Oliver wish to have better access to the rest of the state, and the world through the ports of New Sanctum, as well as better access to their own mills.  Easily done! But immigrants, really? We have plenty of farmers willing to work the mills! Why would we need foreigners? i barely GNU her! posted:For a small stake in the Hartshire and Fairport Line, certainly That's how railroads work!
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 19:24
|
|
|
I also want to upgrade the section of road that goes north out of Boltic until it turns east and build a new section from there to Chenchester. The lack of north-south mobility in the region offends me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 19:29
|
|
|
ZombieApostate posted:I also want to upgrade the section of road that goes north out of Boltic until it turns east and build a new section from there to Chenchester. The lack of north-south mobility in the region offends me. Done!  Mr. Chen himself thoughtfully donates the labor for the project.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 19:34
|
|
|
When's a good time to get a coastal railroad going? A New Sanctum-New Cork rail line is obvious.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 19:34
|
|
|
kefkafloyd posted:When's a good time to get a coastal railroad going? A New Sanctum-New Cork rail line is obvious. What are you going to do about the two major river crossings?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 20:10
|
|
|
Cichlidae posted:I'm not sure where you'd like the canal to go; there's already one from Waterbridge to Fairport, and that's about as straight a shot to New Cork City as you'll get. If you want to go straight East, let me know, I'll punch it right under the new railroad. I was figuring that straight east would be good, assuming that there's things worth traveling too in northern New Cork. If New Cork city to the south is the only thing worth getting too, disregard me. And I'd also like to inquire as to what conditions are like in the surrounding states. Which ones do we get the most traffic traveling to/from, and do our local businesses have any major competitors in other states?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 20:39
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:I was figuring that straight east would be good, assuming that there's things worth traveling too in northern New Cork. If New Cork city to the south is the only thing worth getting too, disregard me. No problem with the canal; It'll go to the Hudsky River in the East.  Surrounding states? Water: Most coastal traffic is either raw goods (slaves, sugar, cotton) from the Southeast, or finished products shipped out from Nutmeg and back down toward the East, or off to the Old World across the ocean to the South. In the rivers, not much traffic goes upstream; it's mostly empty ships, though they occasionally carry building materials and goods from the coastal cities. Downstream, you have a ton of lumber and finished products from the mills and factories. There is not much demand for East-West water movements inland, but there's plenty for North-South. Land: Roads are mostly used for passenger travel at the moment, so you should consider that travel between any two cities will be proportional to their combined size. Bigger cities attract more travel. Summerfield is about as large as Middleport, and it's near the border, about 6 miles / 10 km north. Wincester is about twice as far northwest of the corner of the state, but it's smaller, still not a major population center. It seems to be growing swiftly, though, due to its factories and mills. Salvation is a bustling seaport the size of New Sanctum, about 20 miles / 30 km to the West. New Cork is still about the size of New Sanctum, maybe a bit larger, but it has enormous potential as a port city, and will probably double in size each decade for the foreseeable future. It's about 30 miles / 50 km from the border.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 21:04
|
|
|
Very cool thread. What software are you using to create the map .gif's with flashing new road ideas?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 21:13
|
|
|
Cichlidae posted:What are you going to do about the two major river crossings? So until we can get elevated rail bridges, it's probably a no-go.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 21:17
|
|
|
foundtomorrow posted:Very cool thread. Photoshop CS5. Just turn on the Animation window and it's all easy from there. Glad you like the thread! kefkafloyd posted:So until we can get elevated rail bridges, it's probably a no-go. Yeah, unless you decide it's cost-effective to build a rail line between New Sanctum and just west of Millport.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 21:21
|
|
|
Hey are people all using the same gauge for their rail roads or are we going to have something like this with a city that's at a break of gauge and wants to make money off it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie_Gauge_War
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 21:29
|
|
|
Install Gentoo posted:Hey are people all using the same gauge for their rail roads or are we going to have something like this with a city that's at a break of gauge and wants to make money off it? There isn't much of a standard yet. Urban lines are probably going to go with narrow-gauge, intercity lines would be around 4-5 feet, and mountain rails, if ever built, will probably be cog. I'm assuming that, if the right-of-way is there, the track can easily be changed later on to a more common gauge. This isn't an economy simulator; it's a DOT simulator.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 21:40
|
|
|
I would guess there is a railway machine shop in Hartshire which supplies most of the engines and cars, and all at the same gauge. Maybe railroads that don't connect to Hartshire could be a different gauge, but yeah it likely won't matter.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 22:02
|
|
|
Cichlidae posted:Yes! The problem wasn't so much an engineering one, but that the designer elected to deepen/widen the existing channel, through rapids, into a lake, rather than build a parallel canal. There is no permanent damage, at least. I didn't know, ok? Geez. (Also, if the lake drained several feet down, shouldn't it be a bit smaller in surface area?) For this turn, grade permitting, I'd like to build a railway from Killingham to Wincester, along the west bank of the river. If a bypass canal is required to allow it to go into Mutnap proper, then I will gladly finance it, so long as someone else does the design. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 23:07
|
|
|
i barely GNU her! posted:For a small stake in the Hartshire and Fairport Line, certainly Sir! Your offer is scandalous! If we make this deal, I offer you 10%, but we must be granted access to this section in perpetuity, and the maintenance is your responsibility. We shall also be granted preemptive access north out of the city should expansion occur, on the same terms as above. If you disagree, we shall simply build parallel to your line, there is no more to it. The benefits are clear; a transfer for our passengers shall drive more traffic if there is no need to even leave the building. There is no need for you to spit in the eye of opportunity and the chance for a great partnership.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 23:12
|
|
|
Now Waterbridge has grown significantly, its somewhat inadequate connections with New Sanctum must generate dollar-signs in the eyes of hungry investors. Would an very ambitious project to build a more direct railway between the two cities through the mountains be possible at this stage? I'm thinking something like this:  It looks like it has reasonably gentle gradients and offers one (and possibly later, 2?) opportunities for connections with water-bourne cargo (along with the obvious ones at either end) though I'm not sure how useful it/they are. It could even share a terminus in New Sanctum with the existing companies! Or not... Jonnty fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Sep 30, 2012 |
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 23:14
|
|
|
Cichlidae posted:There isn't much of a standard yet. Urban lines are probably going to go with narrow-gauge, intercity lines would be around 4-5 feet, and mountain rails, if ever built, will probably be cog. I'm assuming that, if the right-of-way is there, the track can easily be changed later on to a more common gauge. This isn't an economy simulator; it's a DOT simulator. It's just that incompatible rail gauges have interesting implications for what happens to transport later. Then again, they were never quite so common along the east coast as they were in the midwest and inland South.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2012 23:46
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:Sir! Your offer is scandalous! If we make this deal, I offer you 10%, but we must be granted access to this section in perpetuity, and the maintenance is your responsibility. We shall also be granted preemptive access north out of the city should expansion occur, on the same terms as above. Fine, so long as I retain preemptive access to the west.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 00:19
|
|
|
(Jeez, how did I not notice that the PSD was 16 bits per channel? Knocked it down to 8 and cut the file size in half. NO WAIT! It DOUBLED the size somehow?!)Hedera Helix posted:I didn't know, ok? Geez. (Also, if the lake drained several feet down, shouldn't it be a bit smaller in surface area?) Turns out, you'd be much better off along the East bank. That way, you don't cut off any navigable waterways, don't need any canals, and there aren't any grade issues. Your engineers just saved you a bunch of money!  Jonnty posted:Now Waterbridge has grown significantly, its somewhat inadequate connections with New Sanctum must generate dollar-signs in the eyes of hungry investors. Would an very ambitious project to build a more direct railway between the two cities through the mountains be possible at this stage? I'm thinking something like this: As soon said as done, my good man! 
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 00:58
|
|
|
i barely GNU her! posted:Fine, so long as I retain preemptive access to the west. The important thing is that I'm not blocked into the city, and don't have to double back to get out. I think we have a deal.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 00:59
|
|
|
Ooh, I wanna play! I like the idea of Nutmeg being full of industrialists with more money than brains, because sometimes that looks like how the world works. Let's say I'm an entrepreneur and I see that the New Sanctum - Fairport line would be very lucrative, if it weren't for that river crossing. There are existing examples of movable bridges, just none of them are strong enough to support a train, yet. So I travel around the US and Europe, talking to engineers, studying bridge design, trying to find a way to get a train across a river. Let's say I build the line and it connects to GNU's line (compensation offered below) so riders can continue up to Hartshire and rich people can vacation down on the coast. To try to increase revenue and take advantage of tourists, I build a resort on the peninsula south of Green, along with an amusement park on the shore to draw riders out into the countryside where the air is cleaner, there's less crime, and I own all the concessions/hotels/restaurants. I offer to sell GNU a plot of land nearby, perfect for a hotel, restaurant, or casino, at a ridiculously low price (before construction starts and before the public knows what's being planned) in exchange for being allowed access to a station in New Sanctum. At the river I build a primitive swing bridge, it works for a while, but is slow, breaks down often, and gets destroyed by passing boats and winter storms. Eventually the public believes that my bridges are unsafe, and by extension, my rail line, so passenger numbers begin to drop, and I'm unable to find enough funding to rebuild the bridge. It's in all the papers and gets some snappy name like "Flagler's Folly", though that's already taken, and was a success. So now I'm stuck with a rail line, correction, two small rail lines that don't go anywhere. Though, it might not be that bad, or at least that's what I say to my investors. The line from Millfort to western Fairport looks like it can survive on its own, as I predict that Millfort and Bridgefield will be growing cities and become suburbs/satellite communities of Fairport in the coming decades. Probably enough commuters and cargo shipments to stay in business, possibly farmers sending produce/livestock to market, or lumber/coal/etc. Millfort also probably saw a small boom from all the construction workers building my bridge, clearing the debris from the shipping lane, and then rebuilding it again, and again. The other half of the line, may not survive... My only hope is that local traffic, vacationers, and the resort are able to cover its expenses. All the while, I'm researching bridges, talking to engineers, etc, hoping to one day reconnect my two lines. I can't wait to see how this story ends... Edit: And of course, while I'm building this, a route from New Sanctum to Waterbridge is built, where trains can continue on to Fairport, allowing trains to bypass my lines entirely. It's not looking good... Bow TIE Fighter fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Oct 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 00:59
|
|
|
Bow TIE Fighter posted:Ooh, I wanna play! I like the idea of Nutmeg being full of industrialists with more money than brains, because sometimes that looks like how the world works. Bankruptcy?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 01:08
|
|
|
Bow TIE Fighter posted:Ooh, I wanna play! I like the idea of Nutmeg being full of industrialists with more money than brains, because sometimes that looks like how the world works. Sorry to kill your imaginative plan, but I'm not letting anyone build swing bridges yet, not even primitive ones that break down constantly. We'll have plenty of time for that in the decades to come! Think of it as if this is the black-and-white portion of an infomercial. Everything is so needlessly difficult!
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 01:09
|
|
|
FISHMANPET posted:To that effect, they form the Hartshire, Oliver, Middleport, and New Sanctum Company to build the Hartshire, Oliver, Middleport, and New Sanctum Line. Legitimate Businessmen from Winton approach the Hartford, Oliver, Middleport, and New Sanctum Company to propose joining the former's new line (running from Hartsire up along the canal through Winton then out of state) to the latter's preexisting one, making sure to match gauge and all that. This should Normal Barbarian fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Oct 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 01:30
|
|
|
heythisguyhere posted:Legitimate Businessmen from Winton approach the Hartford, Oliver, Middleport, and New Sanctum Company to propose joining the former's new line (running from Hartsire up through Winton then out of state) to the latter's preexisting one, making sure to match gauge and all that. In response, the Killingham-Wincester Railroad proposes a merger with the New Dublin-Salvation Railroad, and secret talks with HWFR in preparation for an eventual joining of the lines. We'll call it the Great Northwestern Railway. edit, several hours later: Did the stretch of road between Hartshire and (now) Oliver ever get upgraded? If there's any money left over, that portion really could use some work done on it, along with that small piece between Green and Millfort that's still hardpack. These two improvements are not meant to build over creeks, or otherwise impede river traffic. The current ferry lines will remain in place. 
Hedera Helix fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Oct 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 01:54
|
|
|
Cichlidae posted:Sorry to kill your imaginative plan, but I'm not letting anyone build swing bridges yet, not even primitive ones that break down constantly. We'll have plenty of time for that in the decades to come! Think of it as if this is the black-and-white portion of an infomercial. Everything is so needlessly difficult! Bummer, I was thinking I might break history, but realized that *someone's* gotta be the first to try a movable bridge and fail spectacularly. I still like the idea of building the resort as a way to increase ridership, but that may be straying too far into the economics instead of just the transportation network. Someone's eventually going to connect New Sanctum and Fairport, sooner or later, regardless of if there's a resort out there, so it wouldn't significantly change the network. What about connecting Middleport to Jonnty's line and on into Waterbridge? I could see that eventually connecting Opiantic to Waterbridge in the coming decades. Do we have tunnel technology yet? Is there anywhere steep enough that we'd need to use one? It doesn't look like there's any place big enough to warrant that kind of expense, but it'd be nice to know if that's an option.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 14:16
|
|
|
I'm pretty dumb, could someone post a map of the current lines, so I know who's trying to buy me out and what network they're trying to slap me in?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 15:34
|
|
|
We could probably use a Legend or Key on the maps. edit: Check out this album of a road washout. http://imgur.com/a/BwWMc Chaos Motor fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Oct 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 15:42
|
|
|
The heir to the most powerful and richest family in the Opiantic valley is absolutely convinced of the superiority of 6 foot gauge. He wages his family's totally legitimate fortune on a line along the East bank of the river from New Dublin to Wincester. Edit: the family owns most of the land from new Dublin to Opiantic on that side. Also the family has enough money to ATTEMPT to build the line past Opiantic or at least operate a disjointed line. Edit 2: dang it Ron Pauls Friend fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Oct 1, 2012 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 15:54
|
|
|
Bow TIE Fighter posted:Bummer, I was thinking I might break history, but realized that *someone's* gotta be the first to try a movable bridge and fail spectacularly. I still like the idea of building the resort as a way to increase ridership, but that may be straying too far into the economics instead of just the transportation network. Someone's eventually going to connect New Sanctum and Fairport, sooner or later, regardless of if there's a resort out there, so it wouldn't significantly change the network. I don't think the resort is too out of line, particularly if we're talking privately built rail lines still. A lot of the National Park lodges were built by rail companies to bring tourists to the parks; on their rail lines of course. Zion and Grand Canyon Lodges were built by Union Pacific and Old Faithful Inn in Yellowstone by Northern Pacific Railway. Though I would wonder if you might be a bit too early? The inns weren't built till the turn of the century, Old Faithful being one of the first in 1903 and the Grand Canyon and Zion in 1920s. I have no clue how much rail traffic would have been tourists by the 1840s.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 22:40
|
|
|
I don't understand this transport "game". What's our budget? Who are we? Is it just everyone shoutin' out ideas and then they appear on the map?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 22:42
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:I don't understand this transport "game". What's our budget? Who are we? Is it just everyone shoutin' out ideas and then they appear on the map? Basically. I think there's a budget of 20 lines or so per decade, but the lines can be whatever we want (assuming that they're not effectively vetoed for being ridiculous). The "game" is to promote the growth and good transit hygene of It's a game about pretending ok? Gawd.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 22:48
|
|
|
Hedera Helix posted:In response, the Killingham-Wincester Railroad proposes a merger with the New Dublin-Salvation Railroad, and secret talks with HWFR in preparation for an eventual joining of the lines. We'll call it the Great Northwestern Railway. Alright, everyone, since things are getting confusing, these two small road upgrades will be the last things built this decade. Those of you who posted afterward can wait for 1850 - and I'm sure you'll find things a little easier to build, too. I'll post an up-to-date map with a legend for the next update. The entire purpose of this "game," at least until the 1910s, is to seed the network with canals, roads, and rail lines for you guys to fix up once the State starts buying things up to try to fix the messes that a hundred disjointed companies made. Budget isn't really a set thing; I let you build enough stuff to seed the network, not too much, not too little. Yes, it's supposed to be chaotic at this step. People are supposed to go at it with dissimilar goals, with no consensus. If everyone was logical about this, it would look nothing like the real world. So far, everything is going incredibly well - you've built something that, at least to my eyes, looks quite realistic. You will see things start to shift over the next few decades (and I may even skip a couple), but I wanted to get in the whole canal craze and early railroad building, which means starting pretty early. Just keep in mind, this is only the prelude.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 22:50
|
|
|
Cichlidae posted:Alright, everyone, since things are getting confusing, these two small road upgrades will be the last things built this decade. Those of you who posted afterward can wait for 1850 - and I'm sure you'll find things a little easier to build, too. By the way, did anyone from this era care about whether there was congestion so that they could make a buck or two by opening parallel roads?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 22:52
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:By the way, did anyone from this era care about whether there was congestion so that they could make a buck or two by opening parallel roads? Downtown, sure, but not so much between cities. It'd always be cheaper to widen a rural road than bypass it, but you don't see any widened rural roads. At least that's my evidence  Now, if you wanted to build a little bypass road around a crowded city, that'd be the tits!
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 22:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 13:40 |
|
|
Cichlidae posted:Downtown, sure, but not so much between cities. It'd always be cheaper to widen a rural road than bypass it, but you don't see any widened rural roads. At least that's my evidence Right, this too. I've assumed that since this is still early, and the largest cities have tens of thousands of people, that it's not really much of a hit to go through them. Are there any cities that are large enough that a circuitous route is worth paying extra yet?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2012 23:10
|
|