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Anyone have any thoughts on Audit vs Tax at the Big4? I am interested to know if tax will pigeonhole me because I am more interested in doing a few years of Big4 followed by a controller or CFO position in industry. There are also some hybrid tax/audit positions and I wonder if it's difficult to do one year of that to start and then transfer to plain old audit by the second year.
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Oct 7, 2012 13:17
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Just wanted to say thanks for all the responses, will be handing out blunts my first day of work!
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Oct 7, 2012 14:42
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Could anyone describe for me what the first few days will even be like? I've never had workterms with a firm before (all my related work experience is from managing a small business for four years, handling all the bookkeeping and accounting through SAGE products). I really don't know what to expect save for that they'll be giving me review and compilation files with little to no instruction and I'm to begin by working on them with whomever had the files the previous year. A friend of mine had a job at Grant Thornton and he said he stared at his first file for about two hours contemplating running out of the building crying because he had absolutely no idea how to even start until he finally asked someone what on earth he was supposed to do and now he's been there for years. Any hot tips or tricks I could know that maybe you wish you knew when any of you first started?
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Oct 7, 2012 16:39
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Anyone have any tips for searching for accounting jobs? I've been out of school for a few months now and did quite a few applications and a few interviews as well as enlisting at a few staffing companies. I was hoping to land a position as an entry level corporate staff accountant job which should be plenty because I'm in the Atlanta area. I'm also out of companies to search for, and am open to suggestions. I have looked on websites like careerbuilder.com but half the jobs seem to be posted by staffing companies (our client, etc and etc) Or should I just give in and apply to the big 4 and go through the grinder to get that qualification on my résumé? I think I wasn't considered for a staff accountant job at Racetrack (it was a question they asked on the online application) because I didn't have my CPA, even through I have a desire to get it and I have the requirements but just not the money to take the Becker courses.
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Oct 7, 2012 17:44
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Does your school have employer information sessions and/or career fairs open to current students and recent grads? Mine had one information session with all of the big four and other firms and offices at the same session and also had several information sessions with each firm. The firm I finally went with was only recruiting on campus and actually didn't post their openings online, they handed me a card and told me to send my CV and my transcript. If I never went to that one information session I wouldn't have a job right now.
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Oct 7, 2012 18:26
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Ineffiable posted:I have a desire to get it and I have the requirements but just not the money to take the Becker courses. Becker has a financing option.
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Oct 8, 2012 12:00
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My roommate is using Roger+Wiley test bank and he's doing fine. It comes down to motivation, not which course you're using.
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Oct 8, 2012 18:55
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chupacabraTERROR posted:My roommate is using Roger+Wiley test bank and he's doing fine. It comes down to motivation, not which course you're using. This. I used Bisk review books and an old Wiley question bank CD to prep for the CPA exam (my brother used Becker as he worked at a Big 4 firm that sponsored the studies).
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Oct 8, 2012 22:19
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So I was wondering exactly what position I should be looking for exactly during my jobhunt. I graduated in 2010 with all the appropriate coursework in Accounting, but wasn't able to get any internships while I was in school, so I have basically no actual Accounting work experience, and I right now I'm just at a job I got through a Temp Agency as a File Clerk, so I only have basic office experience on my resume, along with my Accounting School work and some VITA(Volunteer Income Tax Assistance) program that I did a while back. Should I try to apply to Book Keeper/Tax Preparer positions that pop up on everywhere to try and build more work experience, or should I focus more on "Staff Accountant" or "Accounting Clerk" positions that I see a lot? -Also, I am interested in getting my CPA done sooner rather than later, so should I just try to study for it and take it now even though I'm not working in any firm right now, or do you guys recommend me trying to secure a position within a firm first, and then study/take the tests for it? I'm in Southern California btw, in case that helps.
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Oct 9, 2012 00:28
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It really depends on what you want to do. Do you have an interest in doing public accounting work (Audit/Tax/Consulting) or working in industry? As for the CPA exam, if you want to focus on it, you should try to study 5-8 weeks for each part and pass as many of the parts as you can before you start working (particularly if you plan on going to the Big 4 or other public accounting firms which generally don't have very good sabbatical policies to prep for the tests). The sooner you can get the CPA exam out of the way, the better.
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Oct 9, 2012 00:31
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KimchiHead posted:Anyone have any thoughts on Audit vs Tax at the Big4? I am interested to know if tax will pigeonhole me because I am more interested in doing a few years of Big4 followed by a controller or CFO position in industry. Most people I've seen leave for industry that get controller or CFO type positions (or the precursor positions to those) come from audit versus tax, but that isn't to say experience in tax wouldn't be looked at as a positive thing. Having a background in audit might give you a better understanding of the accounting/finance function at a company so I would tend to lean towards that, but at the end of the day being a controller or CFO isn't like auditing or tax consulting so there will be a learning curve either way. As for your second question, I've seen people switch from tax to audit and vice versa, but I would recommend choosing whichever one you think you'll want to stick with so you get more experience in that role.
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Oct 9, 2012 03:40
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Silber posted:Could anyone describe for me what the first few days will even be like? I've never had workterms with a firm before (all my related work experience is from managing a small business for four years, handling all the bookkeeping and accounting through SAGE products). I really don't know what to expect save for that they'll be giving me review and compilation files with little to no instruction and I'm to begin by working on them with whomever had the files the previous year. I hope you won't be thrown to a review immediately, i wouldn't wish that on any new hire. A compilation may sound more realistic. Realistically don't be shy to ask questions but if you have some idea what you are doing accumulate them and ask them all at once when you have gotten as far as you can on the workpaper. Don't be terrified that you don't know what the hell is going on, this is natural, nobody does their first four months at a minimum. School has prepared you for the fundamentals of accounting, it has taught you very little about how your job will actually work. I know that wasn't very specific but i don't want to write a huge long post. I have PMs if you have specific questions. I don't work for a big 4 however i work for a top 15 firm and my experience is pretty much exclusively audit related. If you don't drink, i hope you are rather nuts. Azrial fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Oct 9, 2012 |
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Oct 9, 2012 05:14
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I have internship interviews with two industry firms in a few days. What kind of questions should I expect and ask? I'm guessing it'll just be your usual run of the mill job interview.
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Oct 9, 2012 13:37
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Do independence rules prevent a CPA from holding a mutual fund that contains a client's stock? Or does that only apply to individual stocks?
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Oct 16, 2012 20:08
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Mush Mushi posted:Do independence rules prevent a CPA from holding a mutual fund that contains a client's stock? Or does that only apply to individual stocks? Here's a relevant quote from Rule 101 (Independence) from the AICPA website (basically, it depends as opposed to direct stock ownership): quote:Mutual Funds
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Oct 16, 2012 22:38
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I just started in audit at the B4 recently and started my first client this week. It's been 2 days. I have no idea what I am doing... does that feeling ever go away? Also I'm put on 2 small engagements with just me and my current senior. He wants me to work 12 hour days and it's not even year end/busy season. 
fuseshock fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Oct 17, 2012 |
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Oct 17, 2012 04:28
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fuseshock posted:I just started in audit at the B4 recently and started my first client this week. It's been 2 days. I have no idea what I am doing... does that feeling ever go away? If my brother is anything to go by, probably not.
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Oct 17, 2012 05:14
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fuseshock posted:I just started in audit at the B4 recently and started my first client this week. It's been 2 days. I have no idea what I am doing... does that feeling ever go away? Take solace in the fact that having big 4 experience gives your resume amazing brand recognition.
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Oct 18, 2012 01:07
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fuseshock posted:I just started in audit at the B4 recently and started my first client this week. It's been 2 days. I have no idea what I am doing... does that feeling ever go away? First of all, that is a very natural feeling. You took audit and accounting classes in college but the real deal is different, so if you feel like you're out of your element, it's normal. After your first busy season or first couple of audits, you'll start to feel more comfortable and get a grip on things. That being said, there's always a new issue, "opportunity" or otherwise that you will encounter and will once again make you feel like you have no idea what you're doing. In my opinion, it's a good thing about this job - it constantly changes and you're always exposed to new things. Most people get through it, some don't. As for your second comment, it sounds like you maybe got put on two small year-end engagements outside of busy season (i.e. not 12/31 year-ends). That happens and you just have to go with the flow. Hopefully your "12 hour days" end up being much less than that, but unless you work in a group that deals almost exclusively with 12/31 year-ends, this is just an inconvenience you will probably have to deal with. On the bright side, if you stick around for a couple years and are seemingly working 12 hour days throughout the year, you'll at least earn some credibility with managers and partners and can probably make a case to lessen your load.
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Oct 19, 2012 05:53
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That's some accountant's logic right there. If you've been there for years and work 12hr days everyday, quit and find a better job and maybe a girlfriend.
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Oct 19, 2012 06:58
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That's right. If they work you to the bone and you aren't happy with that, find another job.
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Oct 19, 2012 08:12
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I have an alum dinner coming up and I graduate in December, so I'll be job hunting then. How much should I expect to spend on a suit for those things? I don't have a ton to spend, though I could go into the hundreds for it. Are cheap suits expected for recent broke college grads? Haha and where should I go?
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Oct 19, 2012 22:51
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I always get mine at Macy's, they usually have 20% off coupons if you're on their mailing list. The coupon stacked with other sales when I got my suit, I spent $200 total for a nice suit, shirt, and tie.
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Oct 20, 2012 00:15
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I have a few questions about furthering my accounting career. My goal is to do accounting at a major university, or perhaps run the administrative staff of a university department. I worked in the administrative staff of a research heavy department when I was getting my degree, and I've never been happier in my life - supporting those who were doing cutting edge research and teaching the next generation of scientists was amazing and something I'd like to spend my life doing. I'm currently working as a staff accounting for a 100+ person company, and my company's controller has told me that he is going to be creating a new assistant controller position and that I'm going to be the person who fills it. We haven't yet talked about things like compensation, and as I only have a B.S in Mathematics there's a good chance I'll be able to request/be requested to have additional education. With all of this said when it comes to my current position and future career goals would I be better off going for a CPA or an MBA? Also, I've seen that there are other organizations that certify accounting staff and grant designations such as Certified Internal Auditor and Certified Management Accountant. Are any of these other accounting certifications worth anything? The sector I'm currently doing accounting for has an extremely low profit margin. I'd imagine my current employer would be more receptive to a lower cost alternative to getting a CPA/MBA, and if it's worth more than the paper it's written on I might be inclined to take it over no additional education at all.
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Oct 20, 2012 03:02
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If you have a BS in Math, the CPA/MBA path are (should be) the same thing. CIA wouldn't help you at all, and a CMA isn't that popular in the US. I think it has some kind of requirement like being in management for two years as well.
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Oct 20, 2012 03:07
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Since you are a Math undergraduate major, I have to concur with Harry on doing an MBA in Accounting CPA track (if available) or at worst an MS in Accounting CPA track (although you might end up taking the same courses as an MBA as you're not a business undergrad major and they typically require you to take the same core classes if you never took them before). I personally found the MBA core courses to be worthless but that is because I did an undergraduate business degree and the core classes were virtually the same thing (whereas you apparently haven't done them so they should be fresh).
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Oct 20, 2012 05:39
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In addition, you need a year in an audit position under a CPA in order to get the designation, so that might not be possible in your current job situation. I think some internal audit positions may qualify, but you would need to check into that for sure. Just passing the test isn't enough for the CPA.
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Oct 20, 2012 05:45
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abagofcheetos posted:In addition, you need a year in an audit position under a CPA in order to get the designation, so that might not be possible in your current job situation. I think some internal audit positions may qualify, but you would need to check into that for sure. Just passing the test isn't enough for the CPA. I don't know about other states, but in CA the year of work experience doesn't have to be under an audit position. You can get the CPA doing tax, for example, but you'd need the audit hours to get the additional designation to be able to sign audit reports. Basically it varies by state.
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Oct 20, 2012 05:58
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hellboundburrito posted:Most people I've seen leave for industry that get controller or CFO type positions (or the precursor positions to those) come from audit versus tax, but that isn't to say experience in tax wouldn't be looked at as a positive thing. Having a background in audit might give you a better understanding of the accounting/finance function at a company so I would tend to lean towards that, but at the end of the day being a controller or CFO isn't like auditing or tax consulting so there will be a learning curve either way. I've been doing the (assistant  ) controller thing for about 2 years now but I just don't feel like my career is heading the way it should be. Currently I'm doing the basic controller stuff (montlhy reporting about 5 days a month and then cost price checks, other reporting, follow up of the production plant, implementation of a new BI system and the usual tax returns/annual accounts each year and budgets) I'm not going to be getting a promotion here and in a few years my knowledge of tax is going to be gone completely. On the other hand I don't think I know enough to apply for a full controller or cfo position because a/ I'm too young b/ my knowledge of HR and social law is sorely lacking. Are a few years experience as controller actually valued? Or should I be looking for a different kind of job to build experience? The end goal is still to get to a cfo position. Perhaps I should have tried to do a few years of audit in a big4 after all.
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Oct 20, 2012 11:33
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ThirdPartyView posted:Since you are a Math undergraduate major, I have to concur with Harry on doing an MBA in Accounting CPA track (if available) or at worst an MS in Accounting CPA track (although you might end up taking the same courses as an MBA as you're not a business undergrad major and they typically require you to take the same core classes if you never took them before). I personally found the MBA core courses to be worthless but that is because I did an undergraduate business degree and the core classes were virtually the same thing (whereas you apparently haven't done them so they should be fresh). My Math major had an actuarial emphasis, so I had a couple of econ and a couple of finance classes added in. I also have a minor in management, which ran the table on intro classes for business (2 accounting classes, another finance class, and one each for management and marketing). I agree that getting an MBA to get the extra credits I need to sit for the CPA seems like the best way to go. I just hope my employer agrees as well!
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Oct 20, 2012 14:03
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hellboundburrito posted:First of all, that is a very natural feeling. You took audit and accounting classes in college but the real deal is different, so if you feel like you're out of your element, it's normal. After your first busy season or first couple of audits, you'll start to feel more comfortable and get a grip on things. That being said, there's always a new issue, "opportunity" or otherwise that you will encounter and will once again make you feel like you have no idea what you're doing. In my opinion, it's a good thing about this job - it constantly changes and you're always exposed to new things. Most people get through it, some don't. Hey, thanks. People have been telling me things will become much clearer after busy season. I like learning new things, but I kind of felt like I was just thrown into it without much guidance. He just slapped me with 5 workpapers and seriously said "own it" on my first day. To address the second comment further, the small client I'm on now is a 3/31 client and I'm only doing interim controls testing under JSOX guidance. The whole first week I've been working, my senior has been swamped with another engagement; however because his senior manager is the same on both engagements, he has the flexibility to keep working on the other one. Basically, he is keeping me late because he has to work late. You can imagine how far we're behind since it's only my first week trying to figure things out while he hasn't really done anything yet for my engagement.
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Oct 21, 2012 16:21
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fuseshock posted:Hey, thanks. People have been telling me things will become much clearer after busy season. I like learning new things, but I kind of felt like I was just thrown into it without much guidance. He just slapped me with 5 workpapers and seriously said "own it" on my first day. Honestly your account senior sounds like a complete dick. I didn't have any guidance with my first files either and I'm sure lots of people starting in public accounting will tell you that they struggled to understand what was going on at first too however making you stay late on your first file is stupid. As someone who is a new senior, I can tell you that there is no point in keeping a junior working overtime on their first few files though, they'll learn very little and do very little in the extra hours while stressing themselves out. By November the attitude will change drastically but not giving the junior time to learn what it's like to work in public accounting before pushing them into this poo poo is stupid. /rant
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Oct 21, 2012 17:06
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Aqualung posted:By November the attitude will change drastically but not giving the junior time to learn what it's like to work in public accounting before pushing them into this poo poo is stupid. This is the general mentality of many Seniors/Managers/Senior Managers/Partners at Big 4 and National/Large Regional firms, though?  Seriously, my brother when he started at PwC was literally told "Sink or swim" his first week, with first year turnover of ~50-60% (whether through attrition or quitting) - he managed to last 1.5 years before he fled the company.
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Oct 21, 2012 17:55
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Every time I read comments like this I have to wonder, with the audit industry being jam packed full of young inexperienced people who barely know what they are doing and working unmanageable hours, how much faith do y'all have in publicly traded company's financial statements?
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Oct 21, 2012 19:31
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N.N. Ashe posted:Every time I read comments like this I have to wonder, with the audit industry being jam packed full of young inexperienced people who barely know what they are doing and working unmanageable hours, how much faith do y'all have in publicly traded company's financial statements? Not much, honestly, based on my brother's experiences and lack of actually learning anything (and he was pseudo-promoted to experienced associate despite only somewhat learning cash/AR).
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Oct 21, 2012 19:43
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Aqualung posted:Honestly your account senior sounds like a complete dick. I didn't have any guidance with my first files either and I'm sure lots of people starting in public accounting will tell you that they struggled to understand what was going on at first too however making you stay late on your first file is stupid. I forgot to mention I got left alone at the client site for two days in my first week (then when the client closed my senior asked me to go to the office to meet him). N.N. Ashe posted:Every time I read comments like this I have to wonder, with the audit industry being jam packed full of young inexperienced people who barely know what they are doing and working unmanageable hours, how much faith do y'all have in publicly traded company's financial statements? It's young inexperienced people, but an audit process has been established and people gain experience eventually as people work their way up. Work of everybody gets reviewed by their senior, manager, partner, and concurring partner. It's not like everybody auditing F/S are complete dolts.
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Oct 21, 2012 20:33
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Really just reading any of the accounting scandals from the 90's on should make you question auditors. Hell, some girl at Grant Thornton that I was talking to said you never want to say the fraud word because that means you lose a client.
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Oct 21, 2012 20:38
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fuseshock posted:It's young inexperienced people, but an audit process has been established and people gain experience eventually as people work their way up. Work of everybody gets reviewed by their senior, manager, partner, and concurring partner. It's not like everybody auditing F/S are complete dolts. There is still a decent amount of dolts that end up at higher levels at these firms, though, simply through office politics and attrition. Harry posted:Really just reading any of the accounting scandals from the 90's on should make you question auditors. Hell, some girl at Grant Thornton that I was talking to said you never want to say the fraud word because that means you lose a client. This too. Horseshoe theory fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Oct 21, 2012 |
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Oct 21, 2012 20:39
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fuseshock posted:Hey, thanks. People have been telling me things will become much clearer after busy season. I like learning new things, but I kind of felt like I was just thrown into it without much guidance. He just slapped me with 5 workpapers and seriously said "own it" on my first day. Unfortunately the fact that he's swamped with a previous or concurrent engagement is par for the course sometimes - seniors in particular are often in continual "catch-up" mode and are finishing things up for another job for the first stint of a new one. That being said I think he should be giving you a lot more guidance than it sounds like he is because you're not being set up for success the way you should be. I also never keep staff late just for the sake of keeping them there because I still am, but different seniors operate differently. If it goes on like that, you could consider asking to have a conversation about expectations of timing and hours, maybe even frame it up as if you don't want to kill his charge code for sitting around and not adding value after hours.
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Oct 22, 2012 04:59
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ThirdPartyView posted:This is the general mentality of many Seniors/Managers/Senior Managers/Partners at Big 4 and National/Large Regional firms, though? Yeah this applies but honestly, after 8 hours of work, a junior who started within the last month will only be useful in vouching, tying out FS and/or footing recs. So really from the senior's perspective, there's no use doing this since all you do is gently caress your budget. And I've never seen a junior get poo poo on in a post-engagement debrief for screwing up the budget in their first month on the job.
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Oct 22, 2012 06:00
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