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Live $2/$5. Villain is a winning reg who knows me as another winning reg. He normally doesn't get too out of line since the majority of players are stations but he has been caught bluffing several times in the past against better players. Effective stacks are like $1500. Folds to Villain in the CO. He raises to $20. I call in the SB with 9  9 . Everyone else folds. He's raising a ton of hands here (top 50% of hands) so while I could certainly 3-bet here I don't want to play OOP in a 3-bet pot with a mediocre holding this deep.Flop: J 4 2 (Pot: ~$45)I check/call a $30 bet. He's betting pretty much his entire range here. Turn: 8 (Pot: ~$105)I check/call a $70 bet. This is the type of player who I think will fire at this card like 100% of the time if he has a big diamond or complete air, on top of any decent jack or better. River: A (Pot: ~$245)I check, Villain bets $155. I...? I think he's betting this card with so much of his range. He's capable of thin value bets including any ace and KJ (probably checking back JT and maybe checking back QJ), but I think he's also betting this card with his entire bluff range too, trying to get me to fold a hand like the one I have. It seems like a perfect board runout for a 3-barrel bluff, but are there enough bluffs in his range or is this just a fold?
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Nov 6, 2012 16:27
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It sounds like you spent the entire hand thinking that he could have anything. I guess that is good since he could be bluffing, but on every street you had basically no new reads / information, just "he still has a huge range." The river is bad news if he has been firing with AK/AQ/AT (probably with a diamond). Your check-call on the turn looks pretty strong, but it seems like you are setting him up to blast the river if any diamond or AKQ comes. Is there any upside to check-raising the flop? You're out of position but you might take it down right there or if the turn bricks.
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Nov 6, 2012 19:58
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PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players Hero (SB): $25.00 BB: $31.06 UTG: $26.78 BTN: $56.29 Villain is 46/30 and doesn't like to fold to c bets. Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25 Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has T:heart: J:club: fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50 Flop: ($1.50, 2 players) Q:club: K:spade: 9:heart: Hero bets $1.00, BB raises to $2.75, Hero raises to $7.00, fold Hero wins $6.68 Whats the best way to extract value in these spots. The value hands that he can have and get it in on this board are KQ, K9, Q9, 99, and a j10 that i chop with. And I feel they are going to probably get it in on the turn anyways unless a J or 10 falls. I feel like I hosed up by 3 betting the flop, rather then keeping in all his bluffs/combo draws that he may be inclined to fire on later. Getting it in the flop does ensure the board doesn't run out worse for his 2 pair type hands though. Having turn check through would make me want to puke as well. Thoughty thoughts?
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Nov 6, 2012 20:53
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Mind_Taker posted:words just raise if you really think he's that wide. 65dd 75dd+ A2dd+ K2dd+ Q2dd+ T6dd+ all got there if you think his co range is top 50%. That's 28 combos of flushes. There's 39 combos of just Ax offsuit and 36 more of Ax suited if you really think he's firing turn with complete air every time. And then there's like 150 more combos of suited hands and like another 700 combos of everything else so I guess what im trying to say is Board: Jd 4d 2c 8d Ac Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 50.922% 50.82% 00.10% 248 0.50 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T8o+, 98o } Hand 1: 49.078% 48.98% 00.10% 239 0.50 { 9c9d } sure you can call if you want you have pot odds. but if we give him a non retarded turn barrelling range to bluff 100% of rivers with Board: Jd 4d 2c 8d Ac Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 77.137% 76.92% 00.21% 180 0.50 { JJ+, TcTd, TdTh, TdTs, 99-88, 44, 22, ATs+, A7s-A5s, A3s-A2s, KdQd, KJs, KdTd, Kd7d, Kd6d, Kd5d, Kd3d, Kd2d, QJs, QdTd, Qd7d, Qd6d, Qd5d, Qd3d, Qd2d, J5s+, T9s, Td7d, Td6d, 7d6d, 6d5d, AdKc, AdKh, AdKs, AdQc, AdQh, AdQs, AJo, AdTc, AdTh, AdTs, Ac9h, Ad9c, Ad9h, Ad9s, Ad8c, Ad8h, Ad8s, Ad7c, Ad7h, Ad7s, Ad6c, Ad6h, Ad6s, Ad5c, Ad5h, Ad5s, Ad4c, Ad4h, Ad4s, Ah4d, As4d, Ad3c, Ad3h, Ad3s, Ad2c, Ad2h, Ad2s, KcQd, KdQc, KdQh, KdQs, KhQd, KsQd, KJo, KdTc, KdTh, KdTs, Kd9c, Kd9h, Kd9s, Kd8c, Kd8h, Kd8s, Kd7c, Kd7h, Kd7s, Kc6h, Kd6c, Kd6h, Kd6s, Kd5c, Kd5h, Kd5s, QJo, QdTc, QdTh, QdTs, Qd9c, Qd9h, Qd9s, Q8o, Qd7c, Qd7h, Qd7s, J7o+, T9o, Tc8h, Td8c, Td8h, Td8s, 9c8h, 9d8c, 9d8h, 9d8s } Hand 1: 22.863% 22.65% 00.21% 53 0.50 { 9c9d } it doesn't look good. And that's with 32% of his range being bluffs. we're getting about 2.67 to 1 so we need around 27% equity. So against a reasonable (lol) range of 50% co open and barrel with any equity and sometimes not, it could be a marginally profitable call with a lot more air in his range. But what if we raise? Like 500. Risk 500 to win 400 he has to fold 55% of his hands to break even. The river betting range above is 24.6% of hands. If we raise, he probably calls something like {AA,JJ,88,44,22,AKs,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad7d,Ad6d,Ad5d,Ad3d,Ad2d,KdQd,KJs, KdTd,Kd7d,Kd6d,Kd5d,Kd3d,Kd2d,QJs,QdTd,Qd7d,Qd6d,Qd5d,Qd3d,Qd2d, T9s,Td7d,Td6d,7d6d,6d5d,AdKc,AdKh,AdKs,AJo,Ad4c,Ad4h,Ad4s,Ah4d, As4d,Ad2c,Ad2h,Ad2s} even assuming he just can't fold TPTK and like one good J and 2 pairs to a shove. This is 7.2% of hands. So this bluff would work 71% of the time. I'm a little high so let me know if I made any small errors. or large ones. TheAbortionator posted:PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players Flatting is best. He represents a very narrow range that is always stacking off with us on like 75% of turns and if he doesn't have it we have to give him the chance to barrel off. If he has a tendency to raise flop and check turn, we can always lead to restrict his options. MY INEVITABLE DEBT fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Nov 6, 2012 |
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Nov 6, 2012 23:37
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You forgot to go to the extra step of quantifying if raising or flatting is actually better in the end though. I didn't actually check your range estimations but as a big math nerd I like that someone is doing all these calculations in the thread where they're supposed to be done and so I will do the very last step for you. In the best possible calling scenario, your range where he barrels everything, if he's betting 145 into 245 and you think you will win exactly half the time then you lose 145 half the time when you call and lose and win 400 half the time when you call and win (400*.5 - 145*.5) = 200-72.5 = $127.5 profit from calling If you raise, you win 400 71% of the time (given your estimates) and lose 500 29% of the time, so it's (400*.71 - 500*.29) = 284 - 145 = $139 profit from raising to 500 So raising is indeed better given your estimates even in the first situation where he barrels literally everything and is the best possible situation for calling. So yeah what I'm saying is I didn't thoroughly check your ranges (where you got the 71% fold from) but basically there's almost no way calling is better than raising if you look at the fact that calling is still worse even with his range being the best possible for calling Your thought process is good but you have to go the extra step of quantifying how much better or worse something is too I think in order to really have a complete analysis. You also forgot to include there probably exists some % chance that you will be rebluffed. Honestly at live 2/5 it's probably 0 but in that equation for the profitability of raising vs calling you should at least have a variable of the % times he shoves on you as a bluff. Which in this case we would probably plug 0 into, but it should be noted that it exists as a placeholder for playing against people who would be capable of that. One reason it's incredibly unlikely on this board though is the best hand for him to do that with would be a hand that contains only the ace of diamonds, which he might call with as a bluff catcher if he's really super suspicious. Like even if he does have the Ad, it's pretty hard for me to imagine a 2/5 player going oh gently caress I can REBLUFF WITH THE DEEP STACKS Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Nov 7, 2012 |
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Nov 7, 2012 00:24
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i like donk betting the J42dd flop. there is just one overcard and he may shutdown on later streets. c-raising is good on flop too esp if you think villain is betting so wide. another thing you can do is raise the turn to like 180-200 so you can get a cheap showdown if it bricks and maybe get him to check back a bunch of diamonds on river. this isn't really something i ever do but it bart hanson talks about it a lot maybe it is FPS idk  as played fold river. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Nov 7, 2012 |
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Nov 7, 2012 09:21
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I actually kind of like the check/raising as a bluff option on the river and it's not something I really do much because most villains at this level just refuse to bet the river without the near-nuts so I usually opt to donk into them if I am bluffing. Against this villain, he is certainly capable of b/fing a ton of his value hands so it should have been something I thought about at the time. Glad to see the number crunching to support it being a better option too as I am a math nerd myself. I guess my main question is do you think this is a good spot for villain to triple barrel with a ton of his bluff range? I know it's read dependent but assume you are the villain and you are playing against a competent but not fantastic player. Basically what you are saying is "given that a triple barrel bluff is a good part of his range here, this is a profitable call and an even more profitable raise". But I want to know if the assumption "a triple barrel bluff is a good part of his range here" is a good assumption. Dr. Eat posted:i like donk betting the J42dd flop. there is just one overcard and he may shutdown on later streets. Why would I donk bet or check raise that flop? Suppose I donk bet flop. Then if he has a hand with very little equity against my range (e.g. 7 6 or some such) he is just going to fold (which would be bad because I have him crushed) or he is going to try to bluff raise me, in which case how can I proceed through the hand profitably given my actual hand?Suppose I check/raise flop. If he is betting so wide on the flop then isn't it a disaster to just make him fold hands that he might continue bluffing on the turn? I don't really see what a check-raise accomplishes other than getting him to fold like TT and a weak J that would otherwise beat us. While diamonds certainly comprise a non-insignificant part of his range I can't just say "welp he bet the flop he has diamonds I better ch/r him to charge his draw". I dunno I never really lead dry-ish flops like this heads up especially against players who c-bet a lot. Maybe it's something I should try but I don't like it here.
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Nov 7, 2012 20:17
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Mind_Taker posted:I actually kind of like the check/raising as a bluff option on the river and it's not something I really do much because most villains at this level just refuse to bet the river without the near-nuts so I usually opt to donk into them if I am bluffing. Against this villain, he is certainly capable of b/fing a ton of his value hands so it should have been something I thought about at the time. Glad to see the number crunching to support it being a better option too as I am a math nerd myself. Really that's only a question you can answer based on your play with him, or if you were online based on your HUD. Honestly if I were him I would not be two barreling the turn that often unless I had like the ace of diamonds to go with it or unless the person was known to call flop and fold turn a lot (or if you knew he was very afraid of flushes and might fold something as good as AJ to a turn and river bomb) Mainly just because when you think about what the opponent (you in this case) calls with on flop, it's probably like TT, 99, 88, TJ-AJ, and low diamonds he doesn't feel good about checkraising (or doesn't checkraise draws in general). So on the turn, jacks might feel a little worse about their hand but not terrified because flushes don't make up a huge part of your range, flush draws got there, the only hands that really might fold a lot are the mid pairs. So it doesn't really make a ton of sense as a two barrel spot unless the opponent will basically always bail out on river if he doesn't improve for fear of the flush. However, that being said, once you get to the river, that's basically the perfect card for him to triple barrel you. Had I chosen to double barrel that board I would bet river probably 100% of the time. The only hands you can actually be happy with calling are like sets that for some reason you didn't checkraise on flop and got scared to on turn, AJ, and flushes that for some reason you didn't checkraise on turn. Therefore betting a somewhat large amount on river is probably super profitable, since now TJ-KJ don't even like their hand and the only thing left is slowplays and actual AJ of which there are only 9 combos. So basically when considering whether he would barrel river I think the real question is whether he would barrel turn. If he's a thinking player I think the river is a no-brainer third barrel.
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Nov 7, 2012 20:46
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2-5 NL at a casnio... pretty early in the session so I don't know much about the players. (Note: This was actually my first time playing 2-5 there, so literally no history with everyone except for one player who went to the same card club as me before the casino opened) Effective stacks ~$800 I have T T in the small blind. Guy in middle position raises to $20, he had raised preflop a few times in ~25 hands.... super fishy short stack calls with like $65 left. The button also calls and has been playing a lot of pots. I reraise to $90: original raiser calls, short stack calls all in for $65, button folds.Flop K Q7I check, other guy checks behind. Was this terrible? I think I'm seen as pretty tight and that is a super scary board for him unless he has a draw or a K or better, so maybe I should be leading here? I was little less inclined to bet the flop because of the player who was all in, but in hindsight I could easily have the short stack beat on the flop and should be thrilled to snag the side and take it to showdown. But anyway, check to the turn. Turn J I check again, the guy bets $75. I call. Was getting 4.5:1 with open-ended and a decent flush draw. Well I'm not sure how excited I was about the flush draw part... and I really have no idea if this is a raise or a call as played. River 5 Check and check. Villain has AsJ , good for the side pot, fish has K6 for the main pot.
Deltron 3030 fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Nov 8, 2012 |
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Nov 8, 2012 04:42
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Seems alright; you could raise the turn, but most live players are playing very tight in protected pots like this, and since your opponent didn't bet the flop, his turn betting range is even more polarized.
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Nov 8, 2012 15:50
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Mind_Taker posted:I actually kind of like the check/raising as a bluff option on the river and it's not something I really do much because most villains at this level just refuse to bet the river without the near-nuts so I usually opt to donk into them if I am bluffing. Against this villain, he is certainly capable of b/fing a ton of his value hands so it should have been something I thought about at the time. Glad to see the number crunching to support it being a better option too as I am a math nerd myself. I really don't like that c/c, c/c, c/r line as it reeks of fancy play syndrome with an absolute monster or a bluff. Your hand looks like the nuts and usually I find that people that hit the nuts/nut flush will bet out on the river. If he thinks that you are trying to get tricky here with a big hand then go for the raise. Otherwise, if I were in the villan's shoes, I'd call with all aces and everything on up because you are polarizing your range with that raise. Lote fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Nov 8, 2012 |
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Nov 8, 2012 23:12
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Lote posted:I really don't like that c/c, c/c, c/r line as it reeks of fancy play syndrome with an absolute monster or a bluff. Your hand looks like the nuts and usually I find that people that hit the nuts/nut flush will bet out on the river. If he thinks that you are trying to get tricky here with a big hand then go for the raise. Otherwise, if I were in the villan's shoes, I'd call with all aces and everything on up because you are polarizing your range with that raise. So you assume villain is going to think we are getting fancy with which bluffs exactly? Single diamond that floated flop? Our exact hand? I think it's more likely he just thinks we have a flush and folds. The ranges also accounted for him being stubborn and calling with a bunch of aces and it's still a slam dunk. I don't know why you think him making a polarizing raise makes it an instant call. Could you explain that? e: also i dont really like how we played the hand until the river anyway MY INEVITABLE DEBT fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Nov 8, 2012 |
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Nov 8, 2012 23:30
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Mind_Taker posted:I dunno I never really lead dry-ish flops like this heads up especially against players who c-bet a lot. Maybe it's something I should try but I don't like it here. if there is one street i would c-r it would be turn. i agree with what lote and stefan said though. deltron: hand looks fine. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Nov 9, 2012 |
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Nov 8, 2012 23:57
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MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:So you assume villain is going to think we are getting fancy with which bluffs exactly? Single diamond that floated flop? Our exact hand? I think it's more likely he just thinks we have a flush and folds. The ranges also accounted for him being stubborn and calling with a bunch of aces and it's still a slam dunk. I don't know why you think him making a polarizing raise makes it an instant call. Could you explain that? Maybe villan will think that you are representing a very strong flush or a hand that had some showdown value that has decided to spaz? It's just that the c/c, c/c, c/r line makes no sense unless you have an amazing hand that isn't worried past the turn. Yeah, villan may think we have a flush and a fold, but I personally just get suspicious about this line as fancy play or bluffs.
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Nov 9, 2012 00:07
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Lote posted:Maybe villan will think that you are representing a very strong flush or a hand that had some showdown value that has decided to spaz? It's just that the c/c, c/c, c/r line makes no sense unless you have an amazing hand that isn't worried past the turn. Yeah, villan may think we have a flush and a fold, but I personally just get suspicious about this line as fancy play or bluffs. Just because you have a polarized range says nothing about your actual frequency of playing those hands in a certain way. It's perfectly reasonable against certain opponents, especially those who are very loose and aggressive, to not take away their rope until the river, and go for c/c, c/c, c/r with a huge hand, especially if you have the nut flush and don't fear any river cards. The fact that you might only do this line with the nuts and air doesn't mean that the % is 50/50 nuts/air and therefore he should call you with second pair. You can only be bluffing 5% of the time and his call would be awful and your range would still be polarized if it was only a huge hand and air. Polarization just means you aren't doing this with AK with the ace of diamonds or something. Knowing you don't rep a ton makes it a tiny bit worse but the bottom line is that people can play flushes this way, it's quite possible, and if I have even something as strong as AQ I probably fold (well okay maybe in real time I don't because I stink sometimes but it's definitely a fold against most people) I'm not even sure AJ is a good call here for villain (though I think he would call anyway). I actually looked through my HEM to find the times where I called checkraises on the river and I basically lost almost all of them unless I had the nuts. I was only good like 25% of the time or something, people just do not gently caress around with river checkraises enough. Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Nov 9, 2012 |
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Nov 9, 2012 00:11
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Stefan Prodan posted:I'm not even sure AJ is a good call here for villain (though I think he would call anyway). I actually looked through my HEM to find the times where I called checkraises on the river and I basically lost almost all of them unless I had the nuts. I was only good like 25% of the time or something, people just do not gently caress around with river checkraises enough. I don't really have much to say other than using polarized ranges to justify calling kinda blows when the range is unipolar. Oh, and that Stefan inspired me to filter my old HEM DB for checkraised pots. Some of these hands are loving ridiculous and make me wonder what the gently caress I was thinking in 2009-2010. I shudder to think what kind of heinous play I would find if I got all the hands I played before then...
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Nov 9, 2012 03:20
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Unamuno posted:I don't really have much to say other than using polarized ranges to justify calling kinda blows when the range is unipolar. That's pretty much what I was saying right?
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Nov 9, 2012 03:57
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Villain is 25/20 and kinda laggy, folds to c-bets enough that hes not floating everything. Only had 50 hands on him and have no idea how wide he raises river. Full Tilt - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players BTN: 193.4 BB SB: 106 BB BB: 43.28 BB UTG: 87.12 BB Hero (CO): 129.92 BB SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has 4:diamond: 4:club: fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, fold Flop: ($1.85, 2 players) 9:diamond: 8:diamond: 4:spade: Hero bets 4 BB, BTN calls 4 BB Turn: ($3.85, 2 players) 8:spade: Hero bets 9 BB, BTN calls 9 BB River: ($8.35, 2 players) T:heart: Hero bets 25 BB, BTN raises to 51.2 BB, Hero ????? Raise or call? Further more, if I get in this spot again after hes shown down raising trips+ here on the river, raise or call? TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Nov 11, 2012 |
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Nov 11, 2012 01:19
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I want to get all the money in there, I think he's just trying to make you fold anything under a straight. You pretty much only lose to 89, 99, TT, and 89/99 would probably raise the flop. You beat any busted draws and any straight, and the straights probably call the shove.
Maha fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Nov 11, 2012 |
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Nov 11, 2012 01:49
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Busted draws don't call a raise though. As for straights he has got 5 combos of 56s and QJd always, + QJ hands that decided to float. I'm tending to rule those out on account to his high fold to c-bet (but only 50 hands so this could be way off). Actually now that I think about it QJ here peels flop a ton. TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Nov 11, 2012 |
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Nov 11, 2012 01:54
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Next time you post a hand don't have some of it in cash and some in BB it's annoying to read. Otherwise, get it in.
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Nov 11, 2012 03:30
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poo poo sorry, laptop had a date with a bottle of coke, so now I'm playing on a fresh pt4 install.
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Nov 11, 2012 05:00
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I have no idea how to play monsters... 1-2 NL at a casino, 7-handed since the floor is kind of bad at balancing tables. Brief Background: Effective stacks are around $900, villain actually has me covered but I didn't really see how he built up his stack. He seems solid but has been playing tons of hands, calling my raises frequently and raising lots of pots himself. He is pretty aggressive post-flop, has bet the pot on the flop several times. He caught me bluffing in a couple smallish pots, but I've generally been on a heater and showing good hands. Villain straddles to $4, folds around to me in the small blind with 9 9. I raise to 16, bb folds and villain calls.Flop: 9 32 ($30)I check, villain bets $20, I raise to $50. Villain reraises to $150, I call. Turn: 9 32 K ($327)I check, villain bets $200, I go all in for about $700 total, villain folds. Obviously I took down a big pot, but I have no idea if I blew it. Should I be 4-betting the flop here and hoping he is willing to stack off with a set of 3's or 2's? As played, is my shove on the turn reasonable? If I had like $400 or $500 total it seems like an easy shove, but with $700 I didn't really know what to do. Do I raise to $400 or $500 total? Just call and fire big on most rivers? Letting him see the river doesn't seem very dangerous since he probably would have checked behind on the turn with a draw, so it seems like he has 2 outs at best unless he is semi-bluffing with 4 5 or something.Any help is appreciated, I feel like I could have gotten a lot more money out of this, but I was hoping he had a set of 3's or 2's and would call my shove anyway.
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Nov 13, 2012 08:18
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I don't know about the rest but I think you should be c-betting. Hes aggressive and he probably knows that board missed most of your opening range and I expect to be played back at a ton. Also don't be to hard on yourself, its hard to get stacks in 400 bb's deep TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Nov 13, 2012 |
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Nov 13, 2012 09:33
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Yeah I agree the check on the flop is pretty dumb, he would probably raise or float me with a ton of hands including air. A check-raise is super suspicious, I'm lucky I didn't push him out right there. He folded pretty quickly on the turn when I shoved, so a set is unlikely I guess. May have lost some value on this hand, but I was on a crazy heater last night so I'll survive. Still good to think back on it, though. Deltron 3030 fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Nov 13, 2012 |
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Nov 13, 2012 20:37
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Think about it from the villain's perspective. If you have say QJ, 76, or T8, wouldn't you c-bet that flop as a bluff? So basically by checking this flop as the PFR (let alone check/raising it) or unless you have a weird dynamic with the table, you are basically announcing that you don't have complete air here and that you are going to call a bet if he decides to bet (because there's no way any thinking player should be check/folding that flop as the PFR). That's a pretty significant piece of information you have just given to your opponent. If, on the other hand, you bet that flop with like 100% of your range there's nothing the opponent will learn about the strength of your hand. By check/raising the flop, you are driving out hands like medium pocket pairs, A2s-A5s, and 9x (which there are much fewer than normal since you hold two of them) that would otherwise call (or raise) a flop bet and might even continue on until the turn and river. If he has a hand that will play for stacks then he's not going to ch/fold the flop anyways so I don't really see any other play than c-betting that flop.
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Nov 13, 2012 22:28
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Mind_Taker posted:So basically by checking this flop as the PFR (let alone check/raising it) or unless you have a weird dynamic with the table, you are basically announcing that you don't have complete air here and that you are going to call a bet if he decides to bet (because there's no way any thinking player should be check/folding that flop as the PFR). Quite often in live 1/2 the PFR will check/fold if they miss the flop. At least often enough so that checking this flop as PFR doesn't necessarily mean he has something. Though I agree that a c-bet is probably getting most value here against an aggro player. Nifty fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Nov 14, 2012 |
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Nov 14, 2012 03:07
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Nifty posted:Quite often in live 1/2 the PFR will check/fold if they miss the flop. At least often enough so that checking this flop as PFR doesn't necessarily mean he has something. You are correct, but I was going on the fact that he said the villain was probably solid, and since Deltron is posting here he is probably keen enough to know to c-bet that flop if he missed.
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Nov 14, 2012 04:02
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A general question about bet-sizing in dry side-pots: does your bet size change from what it would otherwise be if there was just a single pot? This situation came up yesterday: I had 88 in MP, I raise to $20 and both SB and BB call. SB has ~$700, BB has $170. I cover. Flop: J T8 (Pot: $60)Both players check, I bet $50. Both players call. Turn: 7 (Pot: $210)SB leads out for $100. BB calls exactly $100 all-in. I call. River: T (Pot: $510 Side pot: $0)SB checks. I bet...how much? The SB was a fish so I ended up betting $325 and he called with 99, so I'm okay with my sizing vs. this opponent (and maybe could have bet a tad more). But if you were against a thinking opponent how would you size this bet if it were checked to you?
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Nov 14, 2012 22:14
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Mind_Taker posted:words not shoving here is a leak at live 2/5 imo
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Nov 14, 2012 22:17
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Game is 2/3 spread game, max bet is 150. I'm 250 deep at the start of the hand. I'm dealt KQ clubs UTG+1. I raise to 11 (standard raise is around 5x in this game). 4 callers, including the big blind. Flop: J 10 5So pot is around 55... BB checks, I bet 20. Middle position makes it 45. This guy is a laggy regular, but a reliable fish. He will absolutely call light. Unknown on the button shoves for 165, so its 145 back to me. The hell do I do here? I have so many outs to the nuts.
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Nov 18, 2012 08:21
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Alterac posted:Game is 2/3 spread game, max bet is 150. I'm 250 deep at the start of the hand. Get it in. Pot is $285, you have $200 behind and the only hand that you really don't want to see is ATcc. If you're folding here the only hands you're not folding are TT and JJ.
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Nov 18, 2012 08:43
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PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 4 UTG: $18.65 Hero (CO): $25.00 BTN: $9.95 SB: $33.95 BB: $45.52 SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25 Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has J:spade: J:club: UTG raises to $0.50,Hero raises to $1.50, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $1.00 Flop: ($3.35, 2 players) 4:club: 9:spade: 6:diamond: UTG checks, Hero bets $2.00,UTG raises to $4.75, Hero calls $2.75 Turn: ($12.85, 2 players) 5:spade: UTG bets $5.70, Hero ????????? Villain was 30/5 and passive. I get that folding over pairs in 3 bet pots to people who haven't bought in with a full stack is insanely exploitable. But then again I am not too worried this guy is going to figure that out. I do see people c/r the flop here with lots of pocket pairs trying to buy a cheaper showdown/fold out over cards so I'm happy peeling the flop then getting it in on the turn/river if they give up the initiative on the turn. Having said that, I do find myself getting stacked by passive players a bunch in 3 bet pots with over pairs a fair amount and I'm wondering if these spots are leaks or just a small coolers.
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Nov 27, 2012 21:46
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Vs a 5% range you are flipping preflop - if he is at all positionally aware that goes down obviously. I would not 3bet JJ pre vs an UTG opener vs most opponents, vs someone only opening 5% I definitely would not. As played, turn is a fold. I don't think you can fold the flop with position+odds, but seriously 5% open is 99+,AQs+,AQo+, unless he plays it this way 100% of the time you are in trouble. Again, don't 3bet pre.
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Nov 28, 2012 00:40
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Ask yourself what hands he does this with and figure out which ones beat you and which ones you beat(hint: not many).
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Nov 28, 2012 00:40
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Live 6-max $330 MTT. Blinds are 300/600/50. SB is a loose passive lady. BB is a professional with a couple of 6 figure cashes to his name, plays a pretty aggressive game. I have 19k. SB has like 30k, BB has like 50k. Folds to me on the button and I raise to 1200 with J 8. SB calls, BB calls.Flop: 9 82 (Pot: 3900)Checks to me and I decide to check back. Turn: 3 (Pot: 3900)SB checks, BB bets 1800. I call 1800. SB folds. River: 7 (Pot: 7500)BB checks. Is this a bet here? Preflop I assume BB has a good multiway hand like a smallish pocket pair, suited connectors, and nothing too premium as he has been 3-betting a ton and been getting called a lot pre. On the flop I decide to check back which I think was a mistake mainly because I think SB is calling with a ton of hands I beat (all draws, 2x, worse 8x). Should I bet like half pot here? The turn I think is a pretty standard call. When he checks the river I think he has some showdown value as that would be a pretty good bluff card if he had air and I don't think he'd just give up on that card. That being said, does he ever call with a hand like 76, 44-66? What does he check/raise with?
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Dec 14, 2012 16:17
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Betting the river versus a lot of players is good, because they will call or fold their weaker hands. A good player as described might check/jam, in which case you need to call, and getting stacks in with your hand sucks. So I would probably check it back vs described villain, but that may be scared poker.
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Dec 14, 2012 16:50
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Ranma posted:Betting the river versus a lot of players is good, because they will call or fold their weaker hands. A good player as described might check/jam, in which case you need to call, and getting stacks in with your hand sucks. So I would probably check it back vs described villain, but that may be scared poker. I feel like if I bet 4500 here on the river and got check/raised, I could safely let this one go.
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Dec 14, 2012 20:53
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EngineerSean posted:I feel like if I bet 4500 here on the river and got check/raised, I could safely let this one go. Do I ever get looked up with worse though? I mean I'm 100% in favor of betting if I'm willing to call a ch/r, but if I'm not willing to do that (and I wasn't sure that I was, given that there would probably be better spots against soft opponents), then is it even worth betting in the first place? My line doesn't look terribly weak, but I guess there could be a few busted draws in my range that checked back flop, called turn, and then bet river as a bluff, which is why I posted this I guess.
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Dec 14, 2012 20:59
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| # ? May 27, 2024 18:31 |
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I haven't even played poker in a few months and I guess it shows. I think you are right. This is probably one of those "villain never calls worse and never folds better" type of situations and you're probably better off checking behind.
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Dec 15, 2012 00:17
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