p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

lusers, heh

e: damnit rotor

# ? Nov 28, 2012 09:48

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# ? May 9, 2024 13:00

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

Win8 Hetro Experie posted:

15-year old IT pro

mods

# ? Nov 28, 2012 10:00

abraham linksys: Sep 6, 2010

rotor posted:

advantages web apps have over desktop apps:

1) users dont need to install them
2) ... ???

2) monetization via advertising. a lot of native mobile apps do this now, of course, but it's rare in desktop apps and users are much, much less receptive to it than they are to ads in web or mobile apps because it's not ubiquitous. this is a HUGE aspect of web apps. users generally expect web apps to be free, or at least start out free, because of it. honestly, i think this is the greatest difference between web and desktop apps nowadays.

3) portability. i'm not just talking about app portability; i'm also talking about data portability. if you have a bunch of word docs sitting on your desktop at home, it's much more work to set up dropbox or, let's be more realistic for the majority of users, email it to yourself than it is to just use a web app like google docs that handles that for you.

sure, there's efforts like icloud for developers to make data portability easy in desktop applications (without requiring things like dropbox), but users don't (and can't, at the moment) expect it from desktop apps

of course the entire concept of a "desktop app" is already somewhat deprecated since we probably won't have, like, desktops in 10 or 20 years. now, if you want to talk about web apps versus native apps on tablets and phones, then the lines become way more blurred because 80% of those apps are built to sync with services like icloud and have advertising-based monetization.

of course, like half of those apps are just wrappers around a uiwebview :getin:

abraham linksys fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Nov 28, 2012

# ? Nov 28, 2012 10:29

0xB16B00B5: Aug 24, 2006; by Y Kant Ozma Post

yes, lets trust the 18 year old best buy dropout about shipping software

# ? Nov 28, 2012 11:28

penus de milo: Mar 9, 2002; CHAR CHAR

MononcQc posted:

Your regular browser won't allow that many concurrent connections per host. IE7 and other older browsers allow 2, IE8 allows 6, Chrome goes for 6, FF for 8 and used to be 4, etc.

Over each of these, you may then attempt to pipeline requests. Opera fully supports proper pipelining, Chrome does it over HTTP only, IE8 doesn't make use of it due to potential head-of-line blocking, and FF disables it by default.

This means that in general, if your images are on a single domain, you will only download from 2 to 8 of them at a time. The rest will be queued up, until the connections are closed, renegotiated, and finally downloaded to slowly appear when possible.

Assuming you still allow pipelining though that requires you to pass around cookies and HTTP headers (including cache info) every time.

In the general case, you should assume there's no pipelining. Given this, you should shard your images across many subdomains of a CDN and evenly round-robin (or randomly) go through these to allow maybe 16-32 connections instead of 2-8, to pull random numbers. This will drastically improve perceived speed by the client.

Then you should ideally sprite small images together, especially icons given HTTP headers, cookies, and poo poo, may end up weighing nearly as much as the image. Huge overhead for no reason. By spriting them, you use one connection, one transmission of client-side data only.

It's a bit useless to make sprites out of huge images given how little that saves compared to sharding domains. You may find out it helps gzipping them and cache in general, though, but it's very possible it makes things slower than if you sharded domains in the first place.

To add more, if you take your standard web site and call it with some timers, you'll find out a huge part of the load time you get comes from assets being queued up in the background -- a lot more than whatever language is used by the server, and most of the time, the database chosen. Optimizing how static assets are downloaded is likely a better time investment than most server-side optimization you could decide to make.

</sperg>

please keep your technical discussion out of the vague programming platitude slapfight thread

# ? Nov 28, 2012 11:54

penus de milo: Mar 9, 2002; CHAR CHAR

rotor posted:

websockets are a great idea if you're stuck behind a retard firewall that only passes port 80 and you're too much of a pussy to go down to IT and throw your weight around.

are there seriously companies where IT policy restricts development because lmao i would raise all manner of hell

# ? Nov 28, 2012 11:58

Max Facetime: Apr 18, 2009

rotor posted:

this is only a thing with games though

yea I guess that's true, but what other desktop apps normal people put on their computers frequently, photoshop maybe?

# ? Nov 28, 2012 12:00

Zombywuf: Mar 29, 2008

TURBO BUTTON posted:

are there seriously companies where IT policy restricts development because lmao i would raise all manner of hell

And you'd be fired for your negative attitude.

# ? Nov 28, 2012 12:42

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

TURBO BUTTON posted:

please keep your technical discussion out of the vague programming platitude slapfight thread

ain't a better place for serious posting than a place where you shouldn't.

# ? Nov 28, 2012 12:49

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

TURBO BUTTON posted:

are there seriously companies where IT policy restricts development because lmao i would raise all manner of hell

i have worked in several places where a firewall restricts everything except http-related connections, and at one place where there was not supposed to be any access to outside world at all. we could only use vpn to connect to our vcs and build cluster. naturally we were not allowed to use any non-approved hardware there as well but nobody actually gave a poo poo so we brought in our own laptops and used wifi to browse the web.

yeah, i'd say not being able to google poo poo kinda restricted development.

any time i've had non-admin user account on my work machine, i have been given local admin rights the same day.

i don't even mind using windows on a normal user account, as long as i have the possibility to run something as administrator.

# ? Nov 28, 2012 13:17

markerstore: Dec 5, 2003; Canny!

echinopsis posted:

think of the amoutn of power used around the world to compile and execute poo poo like java every single loving time

yeah that's not how java works

# ? Nov 28, 2012 13:38

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

TURBO BUTTON posted:

are there seriously companies where IT policy restricts development because lmao i would raise all manner of hell

i have zero (0) ports through which i may communicate directly with an external internet device

there's one way out, one port, and it's the proxy. dns is internal and locked down

fun fact: we can't set up our VPNs here at work because there's no external network and it won't work through the internal wifi. so we have to set it up and drive down to starbucks 2 test

# ? Nov 28, 2012 16:14

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Win8 Hetro Experie posted:

yea I guess that's true, but what other desktop apps normal people put on their computers frequently

none, anymore. because webapps are like the kudzu of computers

# ? Nov 28, 2012 16:28

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

rotor posted:

webapps are like the kudzu of computers

stealin dis

# ? Nov 28, 2012 16:39

Janitor Prime: Jan 22, 2004; PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean; Fun Shoe

Win8 Hetro Experie posted:

yea I guess that's true, but what other desktop apps normal people put on their computers frequently, photoshop maybe?

MS Office, PDF Readers (I'm aware there are now browsers with it built in, but may people still use Adobe even as a plugin in their browser!), Anti Virus, any CAD software to name a few

# ? Nov 28, 2012 18:27

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

rotor posted:

with websockets, we're finally at pairity with client/server apps from the mid-90s! it is truly a golden age.

can you websocket to a domain other than the one hosting the current page? that would be ultra lol.

# ? Nov 28, 2012 18:32

Deacon of Delicious: Aug 20, 2007; I bet the twist ending is Dracula's dick-babies

Jonny 290 posted:

fun fact: we can't set up our VPNs here at work because there's no external network and it won't work through the internal wifi. so we have to set it up and drive down to starbucks 2 test

do they at least pay for a coffee or something

# ? Nov 28, 2012 18:39

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

rotor posted:

advantages web apps have over desktop apps:

1) users dont need to install them
2) ... ???

2) portability: i can make the same app work in windows xp, mac os x 10.8 mountain lion, ios, and the tiny subset of androids that have working web browsers, with appropriate layouts for different screen sizes, without a ton of extra effort on my part
3) i don't have to use poo poo languages like c++, objective-c, or java/c# to do the above
4) i can update every version at once multiple times a day without downtime or making users reboot
5) i can make all data in motion encrypted just by only ever providing an https endpoint

a platform that supports literally every computer made in the last decade in a sensible, centralized, and portable fashion? let me in on this

# ? Nov 28, 2012 18:41

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

you can actually do those with silverlight, but not with html/js/css

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Nov 28, 2012 18:43

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

large RC/small drone idea: build it electrically powered, with smaller than normal battery packs, install a nitro engine coupled to a permanent magnet DC generator to start up and recharge on demand. ~a prius in the aire~

basically just figure out the smallest plane where you'd get ahead on energy/pound with engine/generator/fuel vs. the difference in battery capacity

# ? Nov 28, 2012 18:50

0xB16B00B5: Aug 24, 2006; by Y Kant Ozma Post

rip shaggar

he died for web "developers" sins

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:06

Dans Macabre: Apr 24, 2004

Shaggar posted:

you can actually do those with silverlight, but not with html/js/css

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

lol

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:13

movax: Aug 30, 2008

ugggggh i was waiting to do that but parrot beat me to it :saddowns:

rule 31 is one of my favorite rules

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:35

trex eaterofcadrs: Jun 17, 2005; My lack of understanding is only exceeded by my lack of concern.

Lex Kramer posted:

lol

lol the best rule

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:35

Zombywuf: Mar 29, 2008

2017 is going to be such a bad year.

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:40

jooky: Jan 15, 2003

Shaggar posted:

you can actually do those with silverlight, but not with html/js/css

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

lool

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:44

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

what constitutes a prime date, do you write the date out like 12282012 and use that

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:45

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

it's the 28th

28 is not prime, even in base 13

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:47

Catalyst-proof: May 11, 2011; better waste some time with you

movax posted:

ugggggh i was waiting to do that but parrot beat me to it

rule 31 is one of my favorite rules

it says he should be probated until the next prime date how is six hours from now the next prime date

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:48

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

YYYYMMDD

WHOIS John Galt posted:

it says he should be probated until the next prime date how is six hours from now the next prime date

no don't

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:49

movax: Aug 30, 2008

WHOIS John Galt posted:

it says he should be probated until the next prime date how is six hours from now the next prime date

its uhhhhh the jewish calendar

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:52

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

Cocoa Crispies posted:

2) portability: i can make the same app work in windows xp, mac os x 10.8 mountain lion, ios, and the tiny subset of androids that have working web browsers, with appropriate layouts for different screen sizes, without a ton of extra effort on my part
3) i don't have to use poo poo languages like c++, objective-c, or java/c# to do the above
4) i can update every version at once multiple times a day without downtime or making users reboot
5) i can make all data in motion encrypted just by only ever providing an https endpoint

a platform that supports literally every computer made in the last decade in a sensible, centralized, and portable fashion? let me in on this

yes, no, yes, yes (dependent on browser security tho).

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:55

Star War Sex Parrot: Oct 2, 2003

leave it to yospos to want a literal interpretation on a joke rule

you guys are no fun

# ? Nov 28, 2012 19:58

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

FamDav posted:

yes, no, yes, yes (dependent on browser security tho).

how do i have to use poo poo languages

haml + markdown, sass, and coffeescript are p. much the best at what they do

# ? Nov 28, 2012 20:00

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

leave it to yospos to want a literal interpretation on a joke rule

you guys are no fun

leave it to stereo wires to not let us get all faux-haughty

cmon man

# ? Nov 28, 2012 20:05

Cold on a Cob: Feb 6, 2006; i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually; College Slice

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

leave it to yospos to want a literal interpretation on a joke rule

you guys are no fun

spergs gotta sperg

# ? Nov 28, 2012 20:14

Number19: May 14, 2003; HOCKEY OWNS
FUCK YEAH

Shaggar posted:

you can actually do those with silverlight, but not with html/js/css

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

lol

trex eaterofcadrs posted:

lol the best rule

lol

# ? Nov 28, 2012 20:17

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

aaaanyways

silverlight is p. much the worst because you have the language limitations of microsoft platforms coupled with the administration overhead of binary plugins (that don't work on ios, android, or windows 8 looool) and microsot has all but said it's a dead technology

# ? Nov 28, 2012 20:19