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Cocoa Crispies posted:web apps are actually awful for data portability, but there's lots of money in charging for them how so unless you mean portability as in "can be exported/imported to different apps and will outlast the death of that web app" in which case you're completely right when i say data portability i mean in terms of "save once, open anywhere on anything (as long as it has a web browser and can reach the web app)"
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Nov 28, 2012 23:07
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Cocoa Crispies posted:oh yeah im glad we agree
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Nov 28, 2012 23:09
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since web apps are so awesome the obvious solution to desktop apps is to ship your app with a tiny embedded web server for all platforms and then use a browser to view the actual app's GUI
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Nov 28, 2012 23:11
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MononcQc posted:since web apps are so awesome the obvious solution to desktop apps is to ship your app with a tiny embedded web server for all platforms and then use a browser to view the actual app's GUI i have actually done this.
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Nov 28, 2012 23:11
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i mean that's what sabnzbd does mainly because that app's primary use case was for people with download boxes/media centers who want to be able to access it from other computers i wish it was just a normal fuckin app but it's nbd
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Nov 28, 2012 23:12
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and im not the only one, it's a fairly common practice for people who have webapps and then have a customer demand an offline version.
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Nov 28, 2012 23:12
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MononcQc posted:ship your app with a tiny embedded web server for all platforms and then use a browser to view the actual app's GUI the firewall software on nforce4 boards worked just this way
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Nov 28, 2012 23:13
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there's a shitload of stuff working this way and it's somewhat horrible. It's nice because hey you can share everything, but otherwise it's terrible because "let me start my web server or port forward poo poo just to see" In certain communities / languages it's the sign that the GUI tools are abysmal.
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Nov 28, 2012 23:14
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MononcQc posted:since web apps are so awesome the obvious solution to desktop apps is to ship your app with a tiny embedded web server for all platforms and then use a browser to view the actual app's GUI but i think the point is that nobody would do this because writing apps in html using polling or stateless communication with the server is just so great, people do this because it's an expedient solution.
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Nov 28, 2012 23:15
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let's use extJS!
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Nov 28, 2012 23:17
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MononcQc posted:let's use extJS!
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Nov 28, 2012 23:24
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if I see a page with yet another god drat extJS panel I just close it and pretend it never happened
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Nov 28, 2012 23:25
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php is the best way t o hammer your dick because the hammer has two claw ends 
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Nov 28, 2012 23:26
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Tiny Bug Child posted:basically developers should hate anything "native". the idea that it's somehow a good thing is laughable im sure grand theft auto 5 - web edition - is going to be a great hit on the google chrome book
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Nov 28, 2012 23:32
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rotor posted:but i think the point is that nobody would do this because writing apps in html using polling or stateless communication with the server is just so great, people do this because it's an expedient solution. well yes, but doing this you also lose the benefits that adhering to the html/http programming model has forced upon you: you introduce a whole lot of needlessly complicated installers and updaters, there's native-code specific failure modes that are now your responsibility and all the new opportunities for data loss and corruption when running on someone else's hardware
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Nov 28, 2012 23:44
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MononcQc posted:In certain communities / languages it's the sign that the GUI tools are abysmal. you wouldn't happen to be talking about every language community that's not microsoft or apple would you?
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Nov 28, 2012 23:57
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Cocoa Crispies posted:you wouldn't happen to be talking about every language community that's not microsoft or apple would you? I was thinking more specifically of Erlang, where the Wx toolkit segfaults the VM on OSX if you drag a window to a secondary screen that's left of the main one, and also doesn't compile on newest OSX versions (or I never managed to). It's so much trouble a web GUI is pretty much the best you can do after the CLI.
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Nov 29, 2012 00:11
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MononcQc posted:I was thinking more specifically of Erlang, where the Wx toolkit segfaults the VM on OSX if you drag a window to a secondary screen that's left of the main one, and also doesn't compile on newest OSX versions (or I never managed to). It's so much trouble a web GUI is pretty much the best you can do after the CLI. lol what a lovely framework
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Nov 29, 2012 00:14
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MononcQc posted:I was thinking more specifically of Erlang, where the Wx toolkit segfaults the VM on OSX if you drag a window to a secondary screen that's left of the main one, and also doesn't compile on newest OSX versions (or I never managed to). It's so much trouble a web GUI is pretty much the best you can do after the CLI.
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Nov 29, 2012 00:18
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Cocoa Crispies posted:ha, nobody at work even thinks of wx; when i did erlang factory training i was surprised to even see it in there they used to have other bindings but they're deprecated and removing them soon. I wouldn't consider Erlang for anything commercial that doesn't run on a server at this point, except maybe some domain-specific things where the concepts behind Erlang really work well.
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Nov 29, 2012 00:30
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MononcQc posted:they used to have other bindings but they're deprecated and removing them soon. I wouldn't consider Erlang for anything commercial that doesn't run on a server at this point, except maybe some domain-specific things where the concepts behind Erlang really work well. yeah i heard it's popular for distributed key-value databases
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Nov 29, 2012 00:40
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Zurb foundation is v. Nice and i would turn to that over bootstrap for anything over toy rails apps at this point
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Nov 29, 2012 00:40
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Erlang is great at losing data?!?!
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Nov 29, 2012 00:41
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MononcQc posted:since web apps are so awesome the obvious solution to desktop apps is to ship your app with a tiny embedded web server for all platforms and then use a browser to view the actual app's GUI I've done this, works wonders for tools when you are too lazy to have command line parameters, or remember them. I wish Mozilla did this with Thunderbird, the UI would be much faster to use and develop new features for.
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Nov 29, 2012 00:54
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0xB16B00B5 posted:Erlang is great at losing data?!?! mongo is c++
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Nov 29, 2012 01:01
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0xB16B00B5 posted:Zurb foundation is v. Nice and i would turn to that over bootstrap for anything over toy rails apps at this point that looks nice, i will try it on my next toy rails app
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Nov 29, 2012 01:05
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rails is cool. all i know about erlang is that it is supposedly very good for concurrent stuff/ but someone (mononcqc) please tell me what else is cool about it.
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Nov 29, 2012 01:49
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Tiny Bug Child posted:basically developers should hate anything "native". the idea that it's somehow a good thing is laughable trying too hard to get your own joke rule?
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Nov 29, 2012 01:51
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gucci void main posted:rails is cool. a sulk post
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Nov 29, 2012 01:59
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gucci void main posted:rails is cool. all i know about erlang is that it is supposedly very good for concurrent stuff/ it has nice primitives and libraries for making reliable distributed systems such that one machine can monitor processes on another and do the right thing if it fails or dies the multiprocess/concurrency stuff is in service of this
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Nov 29, 2012 02:01
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MononcQc posted:let's use extJS! this but unironically bc extjs is great for people who need to make decent webapp uis with minimal effort (relative to doing it all by hand)
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Nov 29, 2012 02:34
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lookout! a small hulk!
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Nov 29, 2012 02:40
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Cocoa Crispies posted:yeah i heard it's popular for distributed key-value databases OH YOU
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Nov 29, 2012 03:06
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No mention of having to code web pages for multiple browsers and versions? IE5 love?
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Nov 29, 2012 03:19
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Meiwaku posted:No mention of having to code web pages for multiple browsers and versions? haml, coffeescript, and sass normalize the syntax to something compatible, every client-side framework ever normalizes the semantics to something ie7-compatible, if you have customers using something older fire them and/or quit your job
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Nov 29, 2012 03:25
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gucci void main posted:rails is cool. all i know about erlang is that it is supposedly very good for concurrent stuff/ Concurrency is one. As Cocoa Crispies mentioned, it's rather nice for distributed stuff. it's also fairly nice for soft-real time systems (you must handle events within N milliseconds, and if you go slower than that, you must be able to detect it and deal with it) as opposed to hard real time systems (you are not allowed to ever miss a timer). Fault-tolerance is another one, but fault-tolerance as preached by TANDEM (Why Do Computers Stop and What Can Be Done About It?), which is about distributed process pairs as takeover/failover with transactions on the state. This one is less and less used as people go for Erlang for the LOL WEBSCALE factor and decide to do fault-tolerance by having a billion servers and a given percentage of them responding. The form advocated by TANDEM was well-suited to systems installed in client locations, or things that might have been more central in an architecture (you need two of it, not a thousand of it). Otherwise something I think is cool about it is that it uses dynamic types (wait!) and has an optional Success Typing static system on top of it that you can run to analyze code. But really, the fault-tolerance, soft-real time and concurrent parts of it are the biggest selling points because they're the coolest parts.
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Nov 29, 2012 12:39
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Cocoa Crispies posted:haml, coffeescript, and sass normalize the syntax to something compatible, every client-side framework ever normalizes the semantics to something ie7-compatible, if you have customers using something older fire them and/or quit your job Coffeescript normalises the syntax to something non-associative. Normalising the semantics to ie7 compat is nice if you want to use ie7 for some hosed up reason. None of the client-side frameworks I've seen get around the retarded IE statement limit. There is a reason Selinium Grid exists, and it's not because of the ease of portability of web apps.
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Nov 29, 2012 13:05
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bourbon neat has a cool name and looks nice and ive been wanting to dig into sass more so whoever mentioned that, thanks
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Nov 29, 2012 13:33
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lol i guess i should not put in temporary things like this code:
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Nov 29, 2012 16:01
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Why would you do code:code:
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Nov 29, 2012 16:16
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