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octoroon posted:The movie poster shows future earth in distress in the background and we have ships crashing into the water on Earth, rising out of the water (probably on Earth), and some random city shots of what looks to be earth. I would say it's a fair assumption that the movie centers around Earth, although there's always the possibility that trailer wasn't representative of the whole. Oh ya, for sure Earth will be central to the story. I just don't think all the action will be set on future Earth, or that it will be as simple as a disaster movie with Star Trek trappings.
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Dec 7, 2012 03:16
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AlternateAccount posted:
That's been a general consensus here for a while.
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Dec 7, 2012 03:37
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I really hope the gimmick of the new series is that Starfleet gets blown up every movie instead of the Enterprise.
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Dec 7, 2012 04:18
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AlternateAccount posted:Between this trailer and watching the behind the scenes features on the TNG BluRays, the problem with this poo poo is pretty obvious: There Are No Longer Enough Nerds Working In Star Trek. It's also not exactly the best era for sci-fi in any form. The genre has taken a major hit over the past two decades as the old guard has died/retired, and not been really replaced with new blood. Add that to the fact that there are so few viable sci-fi TV or film franchises today, and it's not a good time for those kinds of writers. I enjoyed JJTrek a decent amount, but it did lose some of the charm that the original version of Star Trek had in its various forms. I didn't see much in this new trailer to suggest where the film is really going, so it's hard to make a judgement as of yet. Once we get a full-length trailer with more story information we can at least figure out what they want to do with this movie.
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Dec 7, 2012 04:23
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computer parts posted:That's been a general consensus here for a while. Wait, what are you serious?
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Dec 7, 2012 04:31
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FlamingLiberal posted:It's also not exactly the best era for sci-fi in any form. The genre has taken a major hit over the past two decades as the old guard has died/retired, and not been really replaced with new blood. Add that to the fact that there are so few viable sci-fi TV or film franchises today, and it's not a good time for those kinds of writers. I mean all you really need to do is look at the original concepts for Earth: Final Conflict or Andromeda (coincidentally also Rodenberry-related) and then... what they ended up as. 
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Dec 7, 2012 04:51
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AlternateAccount posted:And I guess we can just dismiss Heinlein as a hack too, since he sometimes wrote about FUCKIN' Yeah, because *that* was the point of that anecdote. Not something like, say, for every "THIS IS A UTOPIA OF SCIENCE AND REASON!" there was another "THERE NEEDS TO BE 40% LESS CLOTHING ON THAT WOMAN, ALSO BATHE HER AND SEND HER TO MY ROOM!" and "WESLEY IS CHRIST, HE SHOULD LITERALLY BE BLOWN BY EVERY CHARACTER WHEN HE ENTERS A SCENE!". He had many hackish qualities. He did some good work too, but a lot of great Star Trek came from telling his ideas about the setting to go screw. Basically the entirety of DS9 is a long "With all due respect, gently caress that noise" to everything that came before. Star Trek isn't any one thing, and it certainly doesn't owe it's history to any one man. Not even Gene. WarLocke posted:I mean all you really need to do is look at the original concepts for Earth: Final Conflict or Andromeda (coincidentally also Rodenberry-related) and then... what they ended up as. Both series have some real good ideas here and there. Like, you can see where something amazing could come out of the ideas floating around. Pity they turned out the way they did.
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Dec 7, 2012 05:08
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AlternateAccount posted:Holodeck episodes are not INHERENTLY flawed, Fist Full Of Datas aside. Fist Full of Datas was the best holodeck episode, I think you made a typo As for this movie, JJTrek and the other Star Trek movies may all have been sci-fi action movies, but at least II/IV/VI/First Contact were entertaining and had no overt product placement. I watched JJTrek when it came out, and having never seen Star Trek before, I liked it. Rewatched it a few months ago, having gone through TNG and DS9 
Farecoal fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 05:09
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AlternateAccount posted:Wait, what are you serious? Yeah, in The Scifi thread people have said that "some of his stuff is interesting but he has a nasty habit of attempting to condone incest/the like".
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Dec 7, 2012 05:31
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Farecoal posted:Fist Full of Datas was the best holodeck episode, I think you made a typo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g5THKsYBpI&t=22s
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Dec 7, 2012 05:37
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computer parts posted:Yeah, in The Scifi thread people have said that "some of his stuff is interesting but he has a nasty habit of attempting to condone incest/the like". Heinlein wasn't perfect? Why I never. I mean, yeah, so he was a perv. That doesn't instantly invalidate everything he ever wrote.
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Dec 7, 2012 05:45
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Wait poo poo I forgot. Okay it was the best TNG holodeck episode.
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Dec 7, 2012 05:54
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Idle speculation with my friends brought up the possibility that Cumberbatch may actually be playing Joachim and that Peter Weller, who is reported to be playing an unnamed "advisor" of Cumberbatch's character might be playing an older Khan. Basically thinking that the Botany Bay got found 20 years earlier than in the regular timeline for some reason and subsequent events resulted in Khan and his protege hatching a plan for revenge against the federation. This is obviously kind of a stretch, but we were excited about the possibility. It's a set of characters that's very near and dear to our hearts.
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Dec 7, 2012 06:12
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Boogaleeboo posted:He had many hackish qualities. He did some good work too, but a lot of great Star Trek came from telling his ideas about the setting to go screw. Basically the entirety of DS9 is a long "With all due respect, gently caress that noise" to everything that came before. Star Trek isn't any one thing, and it certainly doesn't owe it's history to any one man. Not even Gene. OK, that's pretty fair. My point was more that they've really just abandoned any sort of HUMAN CONDITION STORYTELLING for flair and flash, and Gene was *mostly* all about that sort of thing, which sometimes worked and sometimes needed more spacebabes and nonsense. WarLocke posted:Heinlein wasn't perfect? Why I never. Yeah, I mean you go digging around any long time scifi author, ain't many of them stand up bastions of sanity and sound judgment and opinion.
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Dec 7, 2012 06:26
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Farecoal posted:Fist Full of Datas was the best holodeck episode, I think you made a typo 
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Dec 7, 2012 06:30
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Redjakk posted:Idle speculation with my friends brought up the possibility that Cumberbatch may actually be playing Joachim and that Peter Weller, who is reported to be playing an unnamed "advisor" of Cumberbatch's character might be playing an older Khan. Basically thinking that the Botany Bay got found 20 years earlier than in the regular timeline for some reason and subsequent events resulted in Khan and his protege hatching a plan for revenge against the federation. Yeah, seems a bit of a stretch, though I gotta wonder where Peter Weller fits in. Whether they go with Khan (my preference) or Gary Mitchell (seems more likely at this point), I just hope they actually intelligently play with the "rebooted" universe as an alternate timeline and not just "hey it's a reimagineering and we'll just redo what we wanna." Like they do make intelligent decisions that the changes we see all stem from Nero's arrival. One thing that is kinda cool is how so many mainstream websites are analyzing the trailer. I guess between the success of the last movie and the popularity of scifi/fantasy stuff like LOTR, Avengers, Harry Potter, and Walking Dead, nerd culture really is mainstream now. (Well, except for Fringe not having ratings  )So it's neat to see non geek sites do in depth questions about if it's Khan or Gary Mitchell or if Alice Eve is Dehner...and they actually do research and know who these characters are. Who would ever have thought The Frisky would be speculating about Gary Mitchell? Well, almost everyone gets it right: http://arts.nationalpost.com/2012/12/06/khan-benedict-cumberbatchs-star-trek-villain-sounds-like-a-really-not-nice-fellow/ quote:Benedict Cumberbatch’s star is rising. How high? As high as his villain character is able to chase the Enterprise in J.J. Abrams’ upcoming Star Trek sequel, a.k.a. the Spock-redux film. In Star Trek into Darkness, the English actor — perhaps best known these days for Sherlock and his eponymous starring role in the BBC modern adaptation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s classic tales — will portray the chief villain, rumoured to be named Khan Noonien Singh, or simply Khan, you know, for that retro Trekkie feel.  Don't even know where to start on that one.
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Dec 7, 2012 06:33
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Astroman posted:Whether they go with Khan (my preference) or Gary Mitchell (seems more likely at this point), I just hope they actually intelligently play with the "rebooted" universe as an alternate timeline and not just "hey it's a reimagineering and we'll just redo what we wanna." Like they do make intelligent decisions that the changes we see all stem from Nero's arrival. I thought it was pretty obvious from the first movie that with Old Spock (Spock Prime? whatever) around now Starfleet would want to debrief him and he could let them know about all sorts of poo poo to watch out for. Stuff like "On such and such a stardate the old sleeper ship Botany Bay will be at XYZ coordinates, this Khan dude is on it and he is seriously bad news" etc etc etc. Since you have a character around who knows all of this future stuff and really has no reason not to share it, I would think the new movies could spin off wildly from 'canon' history pretty easily. e: Like, he's telling Starfleet about Q and the Borg and the Dominion and poo poo a hundred years 'before' they knew about them in the other timeline. If nothing else this will change the UFP's planning about poo poo I would think. I wonder what they would do about the STIV probe. Maybe they can just rig up whale speech ahead of time and have sealed orders on all their ships? "In the event of a huge alien dick probe play file whales.mp4"? Or hell, work on time travel early to get actual whales... WarLocke fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 06:38
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AlternateAccount posted:OK, that's pretty fair. My point was more that they've really just abandoned any sort of HUMAN CONDITION STORYTELLING for flair and flash Dune buggies. Again, that type of poo poo has always been more at home in the tv series format than the movie format. You can say that a lot of the movies had personal human elements that you didn't find in JJTrek, and I can say that pretty much everyone I know cried like a bitch at Kirk's dad dying and everyone liked the look at Spock growing up on Vulcan [Never would I have expected "Live long and prosper" to sound exactly like "gently caress you and die"]. Sure it's all a bit thin, but that's because it's a reboot. It wasn't made for the fan, the fan is defined as the person still attached to a dying franchise. The point of JJTrek is to help it not die. Seeing as they went with Benedict Cumberbatch for their new villain, they've pretty much set the cruise control for awesomely compelling storytelling. Seriously, doesn't loving matter what he is playing or what the plot is. He could be a deranged space brony that is rebelling against the tired Federation morality that oppresses his kind and denies him the right to genetically engineer a tail on himself. It will still be one of the best Star Trek movies ever made.
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Dec 7, 2012 06:43
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I don't think you can at all compare the complexity and thematic elements present in Wrath of Khan to "oh you see what spock did, oh he mad." And yeah, Cumberbatch will make this watchable regardless of any other details.
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Dec 7, 2012 06:48
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Boogaleeboo posted:The point of JJTrek is to help it not die. Edit: nvm Farecoal fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 06:54
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Astroman posted:Whether they go with Khan (my preference) or Gary Mitchell (seems more likely at this point), I just hope they actually intelligently play with the "rebooted" universe as an alternate timeline and not just "hey it's a reimagineering and we'll just redo what we wanna." Like they do make intelligent decisions that the changes we see all stem from Nero's arrival. This would be nice, but I wouldn't hold your breath. There's next to no profit incentive in it that isn't already given with just doing whatever they want to.
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Dec 7, 2012 06:59
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Farecoal posted:Edit: nvm If we ever got "Star Trek: Excelsior" I would totally mess my pants. TV series set in the movie era with the semi-wet-navy military aesthetic a la WoK. But most importantly set on a ship that is not the Enterprise and doesn't involve the same crew. It'll never happen though, loving thanks Bermaga. 
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Dec 7, 2012 07:00
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Farecoal posted:Okay its alive again can we go back to real Star Trek now? Old Star Trek doesn't make money in theaters JJ style, and the people responsible for it are either dead or no longer care, so no. You can hope that in half a decade when the movie franchise dwindles, and ideally with the IP still intact rather than having been torched to cinders by progressively worse movies, someone decides to resurrect the TV series and does so without loving it all up. That is about your best shot of getting anything resembling "real" Star Trek back. e: Guess you edited your post out but yeah, this isn't happening. speng31b fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 7, 2012 07:01
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Farecoal posted:Okay its alive again can we go back to real Star Trek now? No, it's one movie and Enterprise and Voyager were loving terrible. You need a few more years of people thinking of Star Trek and Good in the same thought. AlternateAccount posted:I don't think you can at all compare the complexity and thematic elements present in Wrath of Khan to "oh you see what spock did, oh he mad." There is nothing complex about Wrath of Khan, it's a pure swashbuckler with a massively overt theme of aging and death, and how we deal with that inevitability. It was even going to be called "The Undiscovered Country", just to hit the nail on the head a little more. It's not deep, not at all. The Kobayashi Maru on to Ahab, nothing about the film is playing it cool. It's a pretty good film, but complex it is not. Then again films don't have to be complex to be good, so there's that.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:02
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Boogaleeboo posted:There is nothing complex about Wrath of Khan, it's a pure swashbuckler with a massively overt theme of aging and death, and how we deal with that inevitability. It was even going to be called "The Undiscovered Country", just to hit the nail on the head a little more. It's not deep, not at all. The Kobayashi Maru on to Ahab, nothing about the film is playing it cool. It's a pretty good film, but complex it is not. Then again films don't have to be complex to be good, so there's that. I was sad when I found the Transformers thread floating around and I realized those movies are actually deeper than my beloved Trek. At least most Trek movies aren't poo poo, so there's that.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:06
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WarLocke posted:I thought it was pretty obvious from the first movie that with Old Spock (Spock Prime? whatever) around now Starfleet would want to debrief him and he could let them know about all sorts of poo poo to watch out for. Stuff like "On such and such a stardate the old sleeper ship Botany Bay will be at XYZ coordinates, this Khan dude is on it and he is seriously bad news" etc etc etc. I've always hoped this, and it's how I've thought they could set up a meeting with Kirk and Khan-Starfleet sends him to bring back the Botany Bay after Old Spock gives them it's location, and the younger Kirk cockily wakes him up and Khan runs circles around him in a way that he never could have even in Space Seed. But the could just as easily say "Old Spock never did want to tell us about the future, because he thought it would be wrong." Or more likely, never mention Old Spock again. I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:07
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WarLocke posted:At least most Trek movies aren't poo poo, so there's that. Well, largely anyways.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:16
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Boogaleeboo posted:Well, largely anyways. Yeah Nemesis, Insurrection, Generations, the Final Frontier, and even The Motion Picture are genuine poo poo to varying degrees. Generations in particular marked the turning point when it became painfully apparent that no one at Paramount had the slightest idea on what a good TNG movie would look like, although luckily someone remembered they had the Borg and used that chip up for First Contact.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:19
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WarLocke posted:I was sad when I found the Transformers thread floating around and I realized those movies are actually deeper than my beloved Trek. This is a joke, right?
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Dec 7, 2012 07:20
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Did you miss that thread? I'm still convinced it's mostly just bullshit, but some goon made a disgustingly well-researched proposal on the inner depth of the Transformers flicks, almost going on a shot-by-shot analysis.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:21
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Boogaleeboo posted:It's a pretty good film, but complex it is not. Then again films don't have to be complex to be good, so there's that. You're absolutely right, it just needs to be entertaining and/or emotionally compelling. JJTrek was neither IMO mind the walrus posted:Did you miss that thread? I'm still convinced it's mostly just bullshit, but some goon made a disgustingly well-researched proposal on the inner depth of the Transformers flicks, almost going on a shot-by-shot analysis. I don't usually go to this subforum, but it sounds like a horribly pretentious thread already!
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Dec 7, 2012 07:21
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Farecoal posted:This is a joke, right? http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3507949 Read this and prepare to have your mind blown.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:22
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Farecoal posted:You're absolutely right, it just needs to be entertaining and/or emotionally compelling. JJTrek was neither IMO I like you. You're not going to fit in very well.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:25
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WarLocke posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3507949 Well, there's no horribly dense jargon but there is extreme over-analyzing! To be honest though, I haven't actually watched any Transformer anything, so, uh, yeah
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Dec 7, 2012 07:34
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Farecoal posted:Well, there's no horribly dense jargon but there is extreme over-analyzing! To be honest though, I haven't actually watched any Transformer anything, so, uh, yeah Yeah, fancy the nerve of that poster trying to analyze a set of popular films on a film discussion board!
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Dec 7, 2012 07:36
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Farecoal posted:You're absolutely right, it just needs to be entertaining and/or emotionally compelling. JJTrek was neither IMO That's cool. I disagree, but it takes all kinds to make a world. Now if they go nearly entirely shallow with Into Darkness, much less leeway on my part. They've setup basic dynamics for a new audience, now they better play with them a bit.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:38
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A human heart posted:Yeah, fancy the nerve of that poster trying to analyze a set of popular films on a film discussion board! What does this have to with nerve? I just hate that kind of useless analyzing. As I said, I don't browse this subforum very often. Edit: I like Goonfus in the rules thread, basically
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Dec 7, 2012 07:41
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Farecoal posted:useless analyzing. There's no such thing.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:56
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Astroman posted:I've always hoped this, and it's how I've thought they could set up a meeting with Kirk and Khan-Starfleet sends him to bring back the Botany Bay after Old Spock gives them it's location, and the younger Kirk cockily wakes him up and Khan runs circles around him in a way that he never could have even in Space Seed. Sharing what he DID know of the future might have been more akin to him giving Starfleet a bunch of alternate reality fiction. Just the destruction of the Kelvin did MAJOR damage to what he knew as history, so just imagine how much he might know of future history could have been changed by the destruction of a large portion of the fleet, Vulcan and all events, breakthroughs, mistakes, triumphs and discoveries made by populations and peoples that will no longer exist as they should have. The Federation HE knew is gone and it is never going to come back. However, he might also think that due to the corruption of the timeline by one force would require him to share knowledge to balance the damage that was done. It might also be an issue that Future Spock shares a lot of this information with Starfleet and the Federation and it unintentionally causes a change in the power structure of the universe, maybe even turning Starfleet into a more aggressive organization after the events of the first film. Knowing about things like the giant space amoebas and doomsday devices and how to stop them well before they become a threat, knowing of areas of space where the deep dark secrets of the universe are housed, it might make them a bit trigger happy, territorial and even arrogant. Let's say he warns them of the Botany Bay: Starfleet maybe considers the notion that, "This is a ship full of criminals who escaped justice centuries ago, who would have otherwise attempted to take over one our ships, succeeded in doing so of another and killing that ship's entire crew, attempted to destroy another ship, attempted to steal a technology to use as a WMD, etc." In short, Starfleet might be willing for let their typical laws slide and just kill it because these are 'known' bad guys that they don't have time to mess with. Maybe this sort of attitude, maybe coupled with a failure to get the job done right, results in someone surviving for revenge or inspires someone to rage against the the system. Whoever Cumberbatch is in this movie, one thing I will say is that the design of his coat's lapels DO remind me a bit of Khan's Augments fashions from TWOK. But the Peter Weller thing in the movie makes me wonder something else, too. He was in Enterprise as a leader of a Pro-human/Earth movement. At the same time, there was a genetic superman (Khan's augments) storyline from the same series. It's possible that many of these things will tie in together. Weller's character secretly supporting illegal augmented human research seems in line with his pro-human stance. Cumberbatch could be one of the eventual results of that research or somehow related to Khan's Augments in some other way. Doubtful, though, given how poorly Enterprise resonated with the public, but it is still the only one of the TV series that might be completely unaffected by the events of the first JJTrek film, too.
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Dec 7, 2012 09:41
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Maybe, but there were so many near misses by things that are definitely still out there that he really should warn them, because really the odds of them making it through, say, V'Ger or Whale Probe are practically nil. They just got incredibly lucky the first time around.
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Dec 7, 2012 09:45
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