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Does that scene happen in the book? Spidey's a nice guy, personally I wouldn't tolerate him piggy-backing on me.
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Dec 9, 2012 14:21
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Baron Bifford posted:Does that scene happen in the book? Spidey's a nice guy, personally I wouldn't tolerate him piggy-backing on me. You only let assholes piggy-lack you?
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Dec 9, 2012 15:03
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Or is it Sputnik posted:That's not a very good example, since it's still pandering to the male gaze. I posted that because it's the cover of one of the Spidey/Marvel stories. Getting inner panels is difficult to do. But here's something I found while looking.  Bit of a role reversal there.
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Dec 9, 2012 15:17
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Mister Roboto posted:I posted that because it's the cover of one of the Spidey/Marvel stories. Getting inner panels is difficult to do. 
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Dec 9, 2012 16:01
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I'm fine with tits and rear end and porn but I just want less smart-rear end, cheesedick writing in my comic books and no more rape stories. I have a problem when artists sexualize underage characters but Japanese manga still exists. If you haven't noticed most people who have super-ideal bodies are always the ones willing to show it off. That includes women too because they are not holier-than-thou virgin Marys waiting for a doughy goon to pop their cherry.
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Dec 9, 2012 16:17
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MVP posted:If you haven't noticed most people who have super-ideal bodies are always the ones willing to show it off. That includes women too because they are not holier-than-thou virgin Marys waiting for a doughy goon to pop their cherry.
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Dec 9, 2012 16:37
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CharlestheHammer posted:You aren't contradicting me. It has nothing to do with Hawkeye, it could work with any male superhero. Focusing on why its hawkeye is missing the point to such a degree that you would have to be trying to do it. I was kind of zoomed in on the word he, so yeah. I worded what I said awkwardly.
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Dec 9, 2012 16:57
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MVP posted:I'm fine with tits and rear end and porn but I just want less smart-rear end, cheesedick writing in my comic books and no more rape stories. I have a problem when artists sexualize underage characters but Japanese manga still exists. You know they aren't real right? Like they don't make their own decisions.
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Dec 9, 2012 17:06
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Baron Bifford posted:
So this fucker doesn't get work anymore, right? People are over his poo poo?? I hate that God drat :iamafag: face he uses for every situation.
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Dec 9, 2012 18:02
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He still does. This is from Uncanny X-Men #8 (2012).
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Dec 9, 2012 18:47
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Panel two is really gross.
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Dec 9, 2012 18:50
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Or is it Sputnik posted:I never noticed that women bent over and gyrated their torso so that I could ogle both their chest and butt at the same time, but thanks for the tip. I will be sure to be more attentive next time I'm outside! I too have never seen a cheerleader before. Remember, super-ideal. CharlestheHammer posted:You know they aren't real right? Like they don't make their own decisions. You're right, a majority of terrible writers and artists make these decisions. Tapping into sexuality will always sell though, it's just blatantly apparent for comics.  e: to be completely fair, I wanted to write something about the dozens of times Batman: Hush shows an rear end from Harley, Catwoman, and Poison Ivy. MVP fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Dec 9, 2012 |
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Dec 9, 2012 18:51
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Baron Bifford posted:He still does. This is from Uncanny X-Men #8 (2012). Greg Land is awful. That middle panel of Hope is so awkward to look at.
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Dec 9, 2012 18:51
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ShortStack posted:Greg Land is awful. That middle panel of Hope is so awkward to look at. I love that middle panel so much(in a bad way). Also, I just can't get over how terrible the coloring is in so many of these examples of bad art. Like, I know it speaks to how quickly/low budget the book was to do, but using lazy loving monotone gradients to do all the highlights/shadows looks absolutely horrible, even just doing an old school half tone thing would look so much better, and probably take less time, too. Also, I never thought about how different it must have been creating Spider-man back in the day; Marvel stuck so closely to their body proportion conventions, only changing it up from 'buff dude' when doing villains and the like since they didn't have to portray them as ideal, godlike beings. Maybe that's part of the reason he was one of the few superheroes I was interested in growing up.
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Dec 9, 2012 19:57
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Wendell posted:So this fucker doesn't get work anymore, right? People are over his poo poo?? I hate that God drat :iamafag: face Editing in a minor correction for you there. Land is notorious not only for lightboxing - which could be forgiven - but for stealing from other, better artists. Get a load of this.
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Dec 9, 2012 20:06
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Not porn stars, but more like paparazzi shots of celebrities and advertisements. The smiles his characters have just don't feel right. Check out his drawings of Magik and Storm in Uncanny X-Men #5:  The first panel of Storm feels like Land traced a photo of some celebrity as she walked down a red carpet or through a ballroom holding a glass of champagne. The second panel of her looks like he traced a magazine advertisement that featured a woman enjoying herself on a beach. And the first panel of Magika is like those cliché coy poses that actresses sometimes strike in headshots. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Dec 9, 2012 |
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Dec 9, 2012 20:17
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Land's got a "women's teeth" fetish. Every female he draws looks like he's sourced a toothpaste ad or something. Seriously, so much teeth.
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Dec 9, 2012 20:49
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MVP posted:You're right, a majority of terrible writers and artists make these decisions. Tapping into sexuality will always sell though, it's just blatantly apparent for comics. Apparently X-men Legacy isn't selling very well, so Land's attempts at sexy may not be the best example for that argument  The whole "sex sells" idea doesn't seem relevant to the comic book industry, at least not when talking about the the big two. They are mostly selling comics to the same fans that were buying comics ten and twenty years ago. Even with all the movie adaptations, there isn't exactly a huge influx of new readers. I think it would make more sense to say that lovely female characterization is one thing (among many) that has prevented comics from appealing to a wider audience. Sort of on topic, here's some stuff by a talented cheesecake artist, Kenneth Rocafort:  Cyberforce/Hunter-Killer #1 He's definitely done some problematic stuff. Madame Mirage in particular has some creepy panels, and he was penciller for Red Hood (Lobdell's sex zombie Starfire). Still, I end up buying his stuff whenever I see it on the stands because it just looks cool. It doesn't hurt that he can draw expressions that exist outside of life insurance advertisements, unlike Land.  Madame Mirage #3 His page layouts and colouring are consistently exciting too. Dumb and fun comics.  Madame Mirage #5
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Dec 9, 2012 22:53
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Fruits of the sea posted:Apparently X-men Legacy isn't selling very well, so Land's attempts at sexy may not be the best example for that argument
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Dec 9, 2012 23:13
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Fruits of the sea posted:Apparently X-men Legacy isn't selling very well, so Land's attempts at sexy may not be the best example for that argument I'm worried that the writers at DC, many of whom are long-time fanboys, suffer from the same inability to appreciate the perspective of the layman. Nobody is going to get into comics if it means they must spend several afternoons researching backstories on Wikipedia and buying several books a week.
Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Dec 10, 2012 |
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Dec 9, 2012 23:16
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Endless Mike posted:What does Greg Land have to do with X-Men Legacy? He was drawing Uncanny and it sold right on level for Uncanny. He's currently drawing Iron Man which I have no idea how its selling (just that I'm dropping it). If anything, Iron Man is the one book where Land can do ok as long as Tony never takes the suit off.
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Dec 9, 2012 23:23
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Endless Mike posted:What does Greg Land have to do with X-Men Legacy? He was drawing Uncanny and it sold right on level for Uncanny. He's currently drawing Iron Man which I have no idea how its selling (just that I'm dropping it). My bad, Legacy isn't even being illustrated by Land anymore. I should probably fact-check my comic shop gossip!
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Dec 9, 2012 23:27
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:If anything, Iron Man is the one book where Land can do ok as long as Tony never takes the suit off. Yeah, there's enough Adi Granov art for him to trace that he should be able to illustrate most stories.
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Dec 10, 2012 01:12
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To refresh the pallete, here are a few female artists and their take on sexy female characters. Amanda Conner  Now my default, applying manga aesthetics to really bad proportioned female characters should be a recipie for disaster. But Conner's work on the first twelve issues of the Power Girl solo series was refreshing. She puts in this playfullness that you see in the more zany anime series out there that help humanize Power Girl and soften the hard sexy edges. Gray and Palmiotti did the drat near impossible of sucessfully humanizing a super-powered indivudal who's trying to fit in as best she can a lot better than most Superman writers can. Conner helped to make PG more than just the biggest pair of breasts in the big two. Becky Cloonan  Cloonan's another artist with anime aestetics. Her work on Conan is excellent and Belit is the best example why. She's more than just a buxom hottie to drape herself around Conan. She's got this ertheareal manevolence to her. Belit's not an ordinary woman but a bloodthirsty vampire with incredibly pale skin and intense eyes. In the hands of another artist, she's eye candy. In Cloonan's, she's a vicious pirate queen who's the perfect match for Conan's ferocity.
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Dec 10, 2012 01:18
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Jedit posted:Yeah, there's enough Adi Granov art for him to trace that he should be able to illustrate most stories. He just traces the movie armor now. I'm certain the rationalizing for giving Tony a bulkier suit than the liquid armor one in the new book was entirely written in to accomodate Land's tracing.
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Dec 10, 2012 01:18
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Benny the Snake posted:Cloonan's another artist with anime aestetics. Her work on Conan is excellent and Belit is the best example why. She's more than just a buxom hottie to drape herself around Conan. She's got this ertheareal manevolence to her. Belit's not an ordinary woman but a bloodthirsty vampire with incredibly pale skin and intense eyes. In the hands of another artist, she's eye candy. In Cloonan's, she's a vicious pirate queen who's the perfect match for Conan's ferocity. I don't know who was initially in charge of Belit's character design but I'm going to assume Cloonan set the standard (since she did the first issue) because all other artists have kept up with the model. It's fantastic because not only is this the only accurate visual representation of Belit in 70-something years (I've always seen her with olive skin which is plain wrong) but she just looks loving deadly. Even when she's depicted in a "sexy" pose she looks like a viper ready to strike
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Dec 10, 2012 01:49
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Fruits of the sea posted:My bad, Legacy isn't even being illustrated by Land anymore. I should probably fact-check my comic shop gossip! ....And it never was. Edit: my bad, he did three issues in 2010. Endless Mike fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Dec 10, 2012 |
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Dec 10, 2012 01:52
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Dacap posted:He just traces the movie armor now. I'm certain the rationalizing for giving Tony a bulkier suit than the liquid armor one in the new book was entirely written in to accomodate Land's tracing. When did that change? Land was caught tracing Granov in Iron Man #1 last month.
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Dec 10, 2012 01:56
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Benny the Snake posted:Cloonan's another artist with anime aestetics. Her work on Conan is excellent and Belit is the best example why. She's more than just a buxom hottie to drape herself around Conan. She's got this ertheareal manevolence to her. Belit's not an ordinary woman but a bloodthirsty vampire with incredibly pale skin and intense eyes. In the hands of another artist, she's eye candy. In Cloonan's, she's a vicious pirate queen who's the perfect match for Conan's ferocity. It's really cool to see Cloonan and Wood collaborating on Conan of all things. They've done some great stuff together. Demo in particular is really, really good. It started off as a series of one-issue stories about young adults growing up with superpowers. Wood eventually discarded the superpower theme and just wrote whatever he wanted, which worked out really well. Cloonan switched styles for each issue, and did a great job of working with only black and white. There's hardly any shading from what I remember. Demo's art is most remarkable from a storytelling perspective, but here's a sweet cover from the first issue of Demo Vol. 2.  Endless Mike posted:....And it never was. Technicalities aside, I'm still not sure how I got the idea that Land was doing all of X-Men Legacy. Oh well 
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Dec 10, 2012 02:40
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Baron Bifford posted:The first panel of Storm feels like Land traced a photo of some celebrity as she walked down a red carpet or through a ballroom holding a glass of champagne. The second panel of her looks like he traced a magazine advertisement that featured a woman enjoying herself on a beach. And the first panel of Magika is like those cliché coy poses that actresses sometimes strike in headshots. A lot of those shots are used in other Land tracings, he pretty much uses the same woman and changes the hair.
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Dec 10, 2012 02:59
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Hey are there any other really good female comic artists outside of the two I mentioned earlier? Cloonan and Conner are the only ones that came to mind.
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Dec 10, 2012 05:43
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Benny the Snake posted:Hey are there any other really good female comic artists outside of the two I mentioned earlier? Cloonan and Conner are the only ones that came to mind. Conner is criminally underrated.
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Dec 10, 2012 06:08
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Benny the Snake posted:Hey are there any other really good female comic artists outside of the two I mentioned earlier? Cloonan and Conner are the only ones that came to mind. I first saw Rebekah Isaacs' stuff in Brian Wood's underrated DV8 mini and loved her stuff. Too bad she is stuck on the Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel thread mill now because I woould love to see more of her stuff on a title I actually cared about.
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Dec 10, 2012 06:26
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Benny the Snake posted:Hey are there any other really good female comic artists outside of the two I mentioned earlier? Cloonan and Conner are the only ones that came to mind. I've always liked Ming Doyle's work, and she's starting to get more attention now that Mara is coming out.
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Dec 10, 2012 06:36
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Picayune posted:I've always liked Ming Doyle's work, and she's starting to get more attention now that Mara is coming out.
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Dec 10, 2012 07:04
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Benny the Snake posted:Holy crap! This week? Next week? Last week? Article says the 26th, I'm looking forward to it as well.
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Dec 10, 2012 07:06
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Benny the Snake posted:Hey are there any other really good female comic artists outside of the two I mentioned earlier? Cloonan and Conner are the only ones that came to mind. Offhand I can think of a few. In no particular order: Amy Reeder Hadley, admittedly she's only done a few things (a manga, Fool's Gold; a good chunk of Madame Xanadu; a brief and tumultuous arc on Batwoman), but she's quite talented and I hope to see more from her. Nicola Scott, long time collaborator with Gail Simone (Birds of Prey, Secret Six) and currently doing Earth 2. Jan Duursema has spent the last 10+ years on Star Wars comics. Colleen Coover has done a lot of Marvel work in addition to her own enterprises.
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Dec 10, 2012 08:00
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Benny the Snake posted:Hey are there any other really good female comic artists outside of the two I mentioned earlier? Cloonan and Conner are the only ones that came to mind. There's also Emma Rios:  Osborn #3 And Colleen Doran:  Orbiter
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Dec 10, 2012 08:04
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And Pia Guerra, who drew Y: The Last Man. I met her at a convention and she drew a little Ampersand in my hardcover, it was completely awesome.
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Dec 10, 2012 08:21
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Kojiro posted:And Pia Guerra, who drew Y: The Last Man. I met her at a convention and she drew a little Ampersand in my hardcover, it was completely awesome. Speaking of books written by Brian K. Vaughan. His new series Saga is drawn by Fiona Staples: 
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Dec 10, 2012 08:31
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