p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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sports: Sep 1, 2012

Shaggar posted:

tbh I would love to see an evolution of soap that fixes a lot of stuff, but its still the best we've got for now.

you should use soap more often, i smell u thru the posts

# ? Jan 18, 2013 22:17

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# ? May 9, 2024 14:28

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

replace all links with magnet links. know all the md5 hashes of your files in advance to link to them. never change anything.

how do you manage names? dns? i know let's use public key cryptography and now everyone hates you

# ? Jan 18, 2013 22:24

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

The only problem that XHTML offered to solve was nerd frustration that nontechnicals could create and read web pages

# ? Jan 18, 2013 22:31

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Shaggar posted:

that's because soap is not http only so it cannot rely on http features.

OBAMA BIN LinkedIn posted:

ever done soap over something other than http? good fun

Shaggar posted:

lol no of course not

soap is the equivalent of getting a lifted wrangler with mud tires to drive around manhattan, yagni supremacy, rest �ber alles

# ? Jan 18, 2013 22:34

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Shaggar posted:

that's because soap is not http only so it cannot rely on http features.

wsdl publishing should deffo be a spec requirement, tho

this is like refusing to use page numbers when you print on paper because the document has to be read on screen too.

http has headers. soap could use the http headers instead of smuggling them inside the xml data. http uses urls. soap could use urls to distinguish between objects and their methods. http has caching and safe and unsafe methods, but soap doesn't really have this idea that functions might be idempotent or cacheable (really useful when you're on a network!) so we'll give that a miss for now.

if you did this, soap parsing would be faster without having to resort to custom stream parsers, and your http middleware could actually do something useful.

that, or just put soap over websockets and get it over with

# ? Jan 18, 2013 22:40

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

tef posted:

that, or just put soap over websockets and get it over with

Yesssssss

# ? Jan 18, 2013 22:52

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

tef posted:

this is like refusing to use page numbers when you print on paper because the document has to be read on screen too.

http has headers. soap could use the http headers instead of smuggling them inside the xml data. http uses urls. soap could use urls to distinguish between objects and their methods. http has caching and safe and unsafe methods, but soap doesn't really have this idea that functions might be idempotent or cacheable (really useful when you're on a network!) so we'll give that a miss for now.

if you did this, soap parsing would be faster without having to resort to custom stream parsers, and your http middleware could actually do something useful.

that, or just put soap over websockets and get it over with

soap already parses fast and moving half of it to http isn't gonna make it faster. it would probably be much slower since now you have 2 separate modules that have to handle different components and then send them to the application instead of the one. also nothing is preventing you from using http stuff for soap right now, its just that it goes against the goals of soap. but you do can do caching and stuff if you really wanted to.

# ? Jan 18, 2013 23:58

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

Shaggar posted:

it would probably be much slower since now you have 2 separate modules

yes

now

# ? Jan 18, 2013 23:59

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

isn't transport protocol independence the entire point of soap and web service standards? seems a bit dumb and pointless to suddenly decide to tie it back to http....

# ? Jan 19, 2013 00:17

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Shaggar posted:

soap already parses fast and moving half of it to http isn't gonna make it faster.

you can parse http headers faster tahn you can parse xml, it's a regular language

Shaggar posted:

it would probably be much slower since now you have 2 separate modules that have to handle different components and then send them to the application instead of the one.

oh yeah i didn't consider how slow java is

# ? Jan 19, 2013 01:16

Plastic Snake: Mar 2, 2005; For Halloween or scaring people.

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/011713-java-spring-framework-265923.html

good thing nobody uses a p lang like java for anything important right

# ? Jan 19, 2013 01:51

spongeh: Mar 22, 2009; BREADAGRAM OF PROTECTION

java is the original p-lang, honestly.

# ? Jan 19, 2013 01:55

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

spongeh posted:

java is the original p-lang, honestly.

lol that's an insult to p-langs

Perl code:

print "Hello World\n";

Python code:

print "Hello World"

Ruby code:

puts "Hello World"

Java code:

public class java {
	public static void main(String[] args) {
		System.out.println("Hello World");
	}
}

# ? Jan 19, 2013 01:58

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

drat java really sucks in that real world example, B�m!

# ? Jan 19, 2013 02:02

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

spongeh posted:

java is the original p-lang, honestly.

U can tell what a java program does w/out running it which disqualifies it as a p-Lang

# ? Jan 19, 2013 02:04

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

Cocoa Crispies posted:

Java code:

public class Java {
	public static void main(String[] args) {
		System.out.println("Hello World");
	}
}

ftfu

# ? Jan 19, 2013 02:57

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Zombywuf posted:

Lol no, that stuff about enterprise coding above, that was my experience in dealing with EDI over XML over SOAP. It was ok though, they base64 encoded the security sensitive bits.

Even trawling through the tree resulting from the XML parsing stage was a hassle. Raw EDI would have been easier.

if raw, unadulterated ansi x.12 edi is the solution to your problem

then we won't need eyes where you're going

actual x.12 implementor pictured

seriously, though, if you think raw x.12 is better, you have never used it
nightmare fuel
imagine event horizon as your office
every day
forever

# ? Jan 19, 2013 05:09

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

it dawned on me just now that while i call myself a cj, i have more experience as a developer than like half this thread

respect your cjs, folks

you don't know where we've been

# ? Jan 19, 2013 05:12

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Shaggar posted:

the web would be 1000x better if only xhtml existed.

until this thread, i never knew how much i agreed with shaggar about everything*

*except p-langs

# ? Jan 19, 2013 05:13

Zombywuf: Mar 29, 2008

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

if raw, unadulterated ansi x.12 edi is the solution to your problem

then we won't need eyes where you're going

actual x.12 implementor pictured

seriously, though, if you think raw x.12 is better, you have never used it
nightmare fuel
imagine event horizon as your office
every day
forever

So somehow base64 encoding bits of it and putting it between <webservice> and </webservice> makes it better?

# ? Jan 19, 2013 11:58

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

tef posted:

this is like refusing to use page numbers when you print on paper because the document has to be read on screen too.

http has headers. soap could use the http headers instead of smuggling them inside the xml data. http uses urls. soap could use urls to distinguish between objects and their methods. http has caching and safe and unsafe methods, but soap doesn't really have this idea that functions might be idempotent or cacheable (really useful when you're on a network!) so we'll give that a miss for now.

if you did this, soap parsing would be faster without having to resort to custom stream parsers, and your http middleware could actually do something useful.

that, or just put soap over websockets and get it over with

soap over jms is actually a thing

# ? Jan 19, 2013 14:49

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

you can improve the http mapping without changing soap semantics is this a concept so hard to grab

# ? Jan 19, 2013 14:58

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

but but my transport agnosticism

# ? Jan 19, 2013 15:19

Catalyst-proof: May 11, 2011; better waste some time with you

who cares if your bullshit only really works over http

just be happy it works at all you know

# ? Jan 19, 2013 15:27

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

qntm posted:

but but my transport agnosticism

is completely unaffected

# ? Jan 19, 2013 15:29

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Zombywuf posted:

So somehow base64 encoding bits of it and putting it between <webservice> and </webservice> makes it better?

yes, that is honestly better. even if you have to parse ansi x.12 again at the end, at least you had a reliable transport (http over tcp) as opposed to ftp or as2

edit: a reasonable human, however, would just use CXML/xCBL. base64-encoding x.12 inside xml seems kinda dumb except for the reliable transport thing

# ? Jan 19, 2013 17:26

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

qntm posted:

soap over jms is actually a thing

i done this during my masters and it's cool as heck

# ? Jan 19, 2013 17:57

X-BUM-RAIDER-X: May 7, 2008

to be fair though i don't know poo poo about web services, i just know it's easy as hell to do with maven and apache cxf

# ? Jan 19, 2013 17:59

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

yes, that is honestly better. even if you have to parse ansi x.12 again at the end, at least you had a reliable transport (http over tcp) as opposed to ftp or as2

why not just not put the xml poo poo around it and use http over tcp instead of xml over http over tcp

# ? Jan 19, 2013 18:02

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

like eight loving pages later and you chumps are still arguing with shagger about xml and soap

# ? Jan 19, 2013 20:14

Max Facetime: Apr 18, 2009

rotor, please reveal us the ancient secrets to correctly measuring code quality

# ? Jan 19, 2013 20:18

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

rotor posted:

like eight loving pages later and you chumps are still arguing with shagger about xml and soap

what did you expect?

# ? Jan 19, 2013 20:22

jooky: Jan 15, 2003

rotor posted:

like eight loving pages later and you chumps are still arguing with shagger about xml and soap

lets mayhaps change the topic to source control ?

# ? Jan 19, 2013 21:10

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

rotor posted:

like eight loving pages later and you chumps are still arguing with shagger about xml and soap

not our fault you can't program java without xml and soap

# ? Jan 19, 2013 21:15

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

jooky posted:

lets mayhaps change the topic to source control ?

git

though mercurial has a turtle so that's a point in its favor

# ? Jan 19, 2013 23:18

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Win8 Hetro Experie posted:

rotor, please reveal us the ancient secrets to correctly measuring code quality

did you get paid for writing it? then its good code.

# ? Jan 19, 2013 23:21

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

git is fine for when you're working with lots of geographically separated people who either can't get or can't afford decent internet connections.

so basically foreigners and poors.

# ? Jan 19, 2013 23:23

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

github is a nice thing, but overall svn is a simpler, better tool imo

# ? Jan 19, 2013 23:42

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

svn seems simpler but that simplicity means it can get hosed really quick and if i god paid $100 for every hour i spent fixing svn servers

oh wait i did

# ? Jan 20, 2013 00:07

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# ? May 9, 2024 14:28

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

I've administered several and have never had an issue. how did they get hosed

# ? Jan 20, 2013 00:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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