p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

«‹›1784 »

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

Zap! posted:

Apple pays a standards body who defines what "Unix" is to certify that their OS is Unix compliant. At a bare minimum, the OS has to meet the implementation of this Unix standard.

Whether or not getting Unix certification is as simple as cutting a check to The Open Group is debatable, but we certainly know Canonical is not going to be paying up any time soon.

yeah no poo poo what does that have to do with how poo poo the internals are

# ? Jan 29, 2013 05:42

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 23, 2024 16:37

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Toady posted:

for gently caress's sake people, i was quoting someone

its hard to tell with the web "developers" in this thread

# ? Jan 29, 2013 05:45

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

"It is practically impossible to teach OO design to students that have had a prior exposure to Rails: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."

# ? Jan 29, 2013 05:50

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

web "development". not even once.

# ? Jan 29, 2013 05:52

Zap!: May 15, 2002; Nuts.

Werthog 95 posted:

yeah no poo poo what does that have to do with how poo poo the internals are

Name something better

# ? Jan 29, 2013 05:54

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

well then what does unix certification have to do with anything

# ? Jan 29, 2013 05:57

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Toady posted:

"It is practically impossible to teach OO design to students that have had a prior exposure to Rails: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."

chumpchous posted:

Two somewhat related questions:

So the @ symbol means a var is scoped within a model/object, correct? So this means that using @ in a controller doesn't really do anything?

Second: It seems like the same scoping applies to helpers. How to helpers work exactly and what is the best practice with them? I realize you have to require them by your controllers in order to make use of them -- does that mean it's generally bad practice to use a helper within a controller?

I'm just really confused about what should be in a helper and what should be in a model. I've always read "skinny controllers, fat models," but in the tutorial I went through, the practice seemed to be "skinny controllers, skinny models, fat helpers."

# ? Jan 29, 2013 06:25

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Werthog 95 posted:

well then what does unix certification have to do with anything

you can program to the spec and expect the os to conform to the spec

however the spec doesn't require things like filesystems that write data to disk

really it means you can buy a mac and open a terminal and start running commands and be surprised that it doesn't work like gnu and read the man pages

# ? Jan 29, 2013 06:35

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

look all i'm trying to say is why does this post exist

Zap! posted:

Are you ignoring the fact that Apple went ahead with Unix certification of Leopard in 2007?

# ? Jan 29, 2013 06:36

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

oh no my operation system has a poor architecture

like this makes a difference at all, ever

# ? Jan 29, 2013 06:37

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Werthog 95 posted:

look all i'm trying to say is why does this post exist

gently caress if i know man im just posting

# ? Jan 29, 2013 06:38

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

Progressive JPEG posted:

what im sayin is i dig the poo poo you sat on your monitor stand, all i got here is a go gopher

where did you get that swag gopher?

# ? Jan 29, 2013 06:43

PENETRATION TESTS: Dec 26, 2011; built upon dope and vice

SUCKIN DICK BOUGHT THIS GOPHER

# ? Jan 29, 2013 06:55

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

Nomnom Cookie posted:

you can program to the spec and expect the os to conform to the spec

however the spec doesn't require things like filesystems that write data to disk

really it means you can buy a mac and open a terminal and start running commands and be surprised that it doesn't work like gnu and read the man pages

honestly one of the best things about c programming in 2013 is that there are few enough unixes around any more that the amount of #ifdef crap you have to get up to isnt nearly as bad as it used to be

# ? Jan 29, 2013 06:56

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

FamDav posted:

where did you get that swag gopher?

got it as a present a year ago, apparently its not on the googol store anymore as far as i can tell???

LIMITED EDITION (the small one)

# ? Jan 29, 2013 09:39

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

ps a gr8 mascot is as good a reason as any to like a lang

# ? Jan 29, 2013 09:40

PENETRATION TESTS: Dec 26, 2011; built upon dope and vice

tool adoption is largely determined by o'reilly cover animal choice

# ? Jan 29, 2013 10:29

Max Facetime: Apr 18, 2009

Zap! posted:

Not a web developer, but this would be a configuration management nightmare. You're left with one of two situations:
1. You let it update and it breaks the web app.
2. You manually update rails and run regression tests to ensure that it did not break the app.

Pick your poison.

here's an idea, how about option number 3:

3. you let it update, it automatically runs regression tests and if something breaks, it automatically rolls back to the previous version

# ? Jan 29, 2013 10:30

Goat Bastard: Oct 20, 2004

that is an amazing idea that depends on nothing more than robust automated regression tests

# ? Jan 29, 2013 11:43

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

OO really isn't going anywhere anytime soon, is it?

Like, what if like..... ok one sec here *cough* what if... if you want to abstract something, right? and you want to make it an abstract data type.... you just make it an abstract data type?

and you've got a bunch of things you can do to that abstract data type, you know like... all like, kinda hanging out there, you know, not part of that type just, doing stuff to that data type?

then you know, that's cool too? and maybe you can use a vtable every now and again if that's something you want to do but nothing's really trying to lay one on you all the time?

duuuuuuuuuuuuuuude :2bong:

# ? Jan 29, 2013 12:05

Max Facetime: Apr 18, 2009

Mr Dog posted:

OO really isn't going anywhere anytime soon, is it?

no

the combination of information and automated processing is the underlying principle in all of CS, it's right at the heart of the theory of computability in the turing machine tape and rule set. other programming paradigms place additional restrictions or emphasize irrelevant ways of object decompositions, but the object being in some state after the execution of its methods is the alpha and omega of computation

# ? Jan 29, 2013 12:42

Squinty Applebottom: Jan 1, 2013

honestly the adherence to the turing completeness are slowing down language development and advanced analysis

# ? Jan 29, 2013 13:38

Squinty Applebottom: Jan 1, 2013

sublime text 3 beta is out

http://www.sublimetext.com/3

# ? Jan 29, 2013 13:48

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

Nomnom Cookie posted:

oh no my operation system has a poor architecture

like this makes a difference at all, ever

VMS -> WNT -> XOU

# ? Jan 29, 2013 14:22

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Win8 Hetro Experie posted:

no

the combination of information and automated processing is the underlying principle in all of CS, it's right at the heart of the theory of computability in the turing machine tape and rule set. other programming paradigms place additional restrictions or emphasize irrelevant ways of object decompositions, but the object being in some state after the execution of its methods is the alpha and omega of computation

you heard it here first folks, functions are a restriction

# ? Jan 29, 2013 15:00

Zap!: May 15, 2002; Nuts.

Win8 Hetro Experie posted:

here's an idea, how about option number 3:

3. you let it update, it automatically runs regression tests and if something breaks, it automatically rolls back to the previous version

How is that any different than option 2?

Oh right, you've shifted responsibility of due diligence to the tests.

# ? Jan 29, 2013 15:37

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Lemme just go ahead and invoke the pow operation on the entire mythical set of all Math objects, none of which exist, taking these two floats as arguments. Then let's talk about concrete inheritance which is something you should never ever do but every OO language has features specifically enabling anyway

then insert a no-true-scotsman argument about how Java and C++ and whatever aren't "real" OO languages

# ? Jan 29, 2013 15:49

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

Zap! posted:

Oh right, you've shifted responsibility of due diligence to the tests.

well its still you're fault if the tests suck

# ? Jan 29, 2013 15:54

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Otto Skorzeny posted:

you heard it here first folks, functions are a restriction

thats what GOTOs and globals are for

# ? Jan 29, 2013 15:58

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

Otto Skorzeny posted:

you heard it here first folks, functions are a restriction

structure-free code

free as in freedom

# ? Jan 29, 2013 16:03

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

somebody explain what concrete inheritance is and why it sucks because i'm pretty concrete inheritance is the only thing they taught in my college OO classes

# ? Jan 29, 2013 16:05

1337JiveTurkey: Feb 17, 2005

Otto Skorzeny posted:

you heard it here first folks, functions are a restriction

so are structs.

# ? Jan 29, 2013 16:15

Dr. Honked: Jan 9, 2011; eat it you slaaaaaaag

Werthog 95 posted:

somebody explain what concrete inheritance is and why it sucks because i'm pretty concrete inheritance is the only thing they taught in my college OO classes

concrete inheritance enforces an "is a" hierarchy which can be a huge pain in the butt. "has a" tends to be better. for example, imagine if you will, a door. you have a base door, and more fancy doors inherit from it. there are lots of things a door can have - locks, letter boxes, brass numbers, peephole, cat flap. it makes no sense to have an inheritance hierarchy here because any door can have any feature, and they're all different in some way.

of course, this is a simplistic example. i've had concrete inheritance bite me in the rear end plenty of times in c++.

# ? Jan 29, 2013 16:25

Janitor Prime: Jan 22, 2004; PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean; Fun Shoe

Werthog 95 posted:

somebody explain what concrete inheritance is and why it sucks because i'm pretty concrete inheritance is the only thing they taught in my college OO classes

Here read this poo poo about how C++ inheritance hosed with the starcraft team
http://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/tough-times-on-the-road-to-starcraft

# ? Jan 29, 2013 16:28

Dr. Honked: Jan 9, 2011; eat it you slaaaaaaag

Hard NOP Life posted:

Here read this poo poo about how C++ inheritance hosed with the starcraft team
http://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/tough-times-on-the-road-to-starcraft

code:

class CUnit ... {
    #include "header_1.h"
    #include "header_2.h"
    #include "header_3.h"
    #include "header_4.h"
};

# ? Jan 29, 2013 16:38

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

yeah starcraft was made during the Bad Old Days and by a team that was high on a few things at once

# ? Jan 29, 2013 16:42

Posting Principle: Dec 10, 2011; by Ralp

Dr. Honked posted:

code:

class CUnit ... {
    #include "header_1.h"
    #include "header_2.h"
    #include "header_3.h"
    #include "header_4.h"
};

looool

# ? Jan 29, 2013 16:47

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

thank you for educating this dumb idiot baby

# ? Jan 29, 2013 16:53

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

starcraft was written by people new to c++

# ? Jan 29, 2013 17:34

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 23, 2024 16:37

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

Werthog 95 posted:

thank you for educating this dumb idiot baby

Also a good one to read is the second part of Sutts McButts thing on inheritance

http://www.gotw.ca/publications/mill07.htm

it turns out that liskoving is the way to go who knew?

# ? Jan 29, 2013 17:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

«‹›1784 »