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Didn't understand the special warning for the last part of Utopia tonight. Seems most of the nastier stuff was early on. Glad they're actually making the killer guy a bit more fleshed out. Did we actually hear his name before this episode? One thing I didn't really get. Why did Jessica suddenly start caring about people getting offed? And why didn't she just pick her gun back up and plug Arby while while he walked off. I mean, just look at what she says after the news of the shooting. Dunno about that skinhead dude either.
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Jan 30, 2013 00:51
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I'm not really sure that utopia has a good enough plot or character development to justify having multiple scenes that are purely for shock factor. I could maybe understand the school shooting as some allusion to a political statement and that Arby has been built up to a robo-killer over the last couple of episodes. But that capital had been used up by the time he shot the girls mum in front of her and in my opinion was in really bad taste and to no point that hadn't already even established. The school shooting had already shown Arby's readiness to kill and Chris rea's character was obviously high up in the network. So we learnt nothing new and nothing would have changed plot wise if he didn't shoot the lady, we just got a gratuitous shot of a man shooting a woman in the head. The part at the end was even worse when the minister threatened the angriest man in Scotland's wife with rape. The last minister was a clueless chump hung out to dry by the network and the new one appeared just to be a messenger or at least a small cog in the machine up until this point. So he hadn't really 'earned' the right to threaten something so vile by that point. That said I do like the vivid colours and Wes Anderson style right angle shots. I will keep watching because because I think there is a chance that the show could contextualise some of my complaints but I find the violence against women, on screen and threatened, really distasteful and difficult to watch. There will probably be a similar daily mail column tomorrow morning but that doesn't mean that this show is not problematic.
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Jan 30, 2013 00:58
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madey posted:I'm not really sure that utopia has a good enough plot or character development to justify having multiple scenes that are purely for shock factor. I could maybe understand the school shooting as some allusion to a political statement and that Arby has been built up to a robo-killer over the last couple of episodes. But the violence against children and men is perfectly tasteful? Seems to be a strange thing to get hung up on when pretty much everyone is being violently murdered.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:09
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Bland posted:But the violence against children and men is perfectly tasteful? Seems to be a strange thing to get hung up on when pretty much everyone is being violently murdered. Not at all. Like I said above though I think there is a concept in play where what is 'earned' through character development and plot is then 'spent' in these sort of scenes. Therefore my complaint about the violence against women being worse is a consequence of running order. Also all of the kids are killed off screen which lessens the impact and I think Arby's kill count for that episode is one man to three women.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:33
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Was not expecting that, wow. Grim The more of this I watch, the more its making me think Kill List is the backstory for the tubby hitman.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:52
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Jessica Hyde's acting is really bad. Actually, all of the acting in the main group is sub-standard. There's some really bad dialogue there as well "The firewall is triple encrypted!" I previously really liked Utopia, but...I'm getting bored. Beautiful cinematography can only take it so far, but it's getting a little boring and ridiculous now.
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Jan 30, 2013 03:25
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madey posted:Also all of the kids are killed off screen which lessens the impact and I think Arby's kill count for that episode is one man to three women. Was it not two men (teacher and skinhead) and two women (at Alice's house)? Maybe one more I'm forgetting. Given the long drawn out torture and choking scenes completely against men in previous episodes we probably don't need to get worked up against how the show is treating women. Unless we want to play a social white justice knight.
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Jan 30, 2013 10:13
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Squalitude posted:Was it not two men (teacher and skinhead) and two women (at Alice's house)? Maybe one more I'm forgetting. Given the long drawn out torture and choking scenes completely against men in previous episodes we probably don't need to get worked up against how the show is treating women. Unless we want to play a social white justice knight. In episode three, Arby (Neil Maskell, who up until now I've only ever seen in lovely cockney gangster or hooligan roles) killed a male teacher, a female teacher, two children, and the two women in Alice's house. Milner killed the skinhead in the church. Noreaus posted:Jessica Hyde's acting is really bad. Actually, all of the acting in the main group is sub-standard. There's some really bad dialogue there as well "The firewall is triple encrypted!" I'm still loving it, but Jessica Hyde's character is, for me, the weakest part of the show. It's a little far-fetched but who cares? It's great drama.
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Jan 30, 2013 11:35
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stickyfngrdboy posted:In episode three, Arby (Neil Maskell, who up until now I've only ever seen in lovely cockney gangster or hooligan roles) killed a male teacher, a female teacher, two children, and the two women in Alice's house. Milner killed the skinhead in the church. I'm pretty sure he killed 5 kids actually. Lovely chap that he is
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Jan 30, 2013 11:38
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Bland posted:I'm pretty sure he killed 5 kids actually. Lovely chap that he is Oh was it five? I missed that somehow. He did feel bad afterwards though so there is that.
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Jan 30, 2013 11:41
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stickyfngrdboy posted:Oh was it five? I missed that somehow. He did feel bad afterwards though so there is that. Yeah the headteacher said there was 4 kids in the geography club or something, then he walked in the room and fired 4 shots. Plus the kid in the gym makes 5. I feel that Arby and Jessica are both characters that have some interesting potential plotwise, they're quite similar in a lot of ways, who knows if the show will make good on its potential in the long run though.. Bland fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 11:45
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I can't think of a show that makes me think: "oh god, they really went there"  more than Black Mirror. I highly recommended this to anyone who likes twilight zone "what if" style Sci-fi.Can't wait.
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Jan 30, 2013 13:15
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madey posted:I'm not really sure that utopia has a good enough plot or character development to justify having multiple scenes that are purely for shock factor. I could maybe understand the school shooting as some allusion to a political statement and that Arby has been built up to a robo-killer over the last couple of episodes. I thought it was really cool when the woman died.
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Jan 30, 2013 13:23
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Utopia feels like The Shadow Line. Brilliant cinematography, a lot of stilted dialogue and exposition, a bunch of shallow stock characters, cold-blooded violence mainly coming from one guy who displays no emotion. All that's missing is every other character threatening people's children. I don't have too much of an issue with the school shooting or the torture, it's just that it all feels too excessive. It isn't helped by most of the evil guys talking in the exact same voice and pacing, so they're all blending into one. I don't feel much for any of the main characters, so it's less tension and more boredom during most of the scenes.
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Jan 30, 2013 15:18
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Lovechop posted:I thought it was really cool when the woman died. Same. Lol
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Jan 30, 2013 15:27
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Weird question: Does anyone remember a vodka advert from years ago where they had two good looking blond girls that basically tortured people while speaking about how great their vodka (pronounced Vod-Ka) was? Did I just imagine this?
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Jan 30, 2013 15:29
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Plucky Brit posted:Utopia feels like The Shadow Line. Utopia's second episode inspired the same feelings as The Shadow Line's seventh. I think maybe the hyper-violence is debted to comics. There's some pretty nasty stuff breezily executed in most of them. Anyway, did anyone watch the GBB's continued metastasization throughout BBC2 in the life of Mary Berry yesterday. Mel Giedroyc doing the narration too. And if anyone's hankering for some garbage Americans being awful, Iplayer has The Queen of Versailles on under the Storyville tag.
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Jan 30, 2013 15:34
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Mr. Squishy posted:Anyway, did anyone watch the GBB's continued metastasization throughout BBC2 in the life of Mary Berry yesterday. I'd only have a problem with that if Mary Berry wasn't so lovely 
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Jan 30, 2013 16:55
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twoot posted:I'd only have a problem with that if Mary Berry wasn't so lovely Time to have your heart broken (like mine was when I read this first time): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/9829933/Ill-informed-Mary-Berry-criticised-for-condemning-maternity-leave.html
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Jan 30, 2013 17:03
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Jonnty posted:Time to have your heart broken (like mine was when I read this first time): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/9829933/Ill-informed-Mary-Berry-criticised-for-condemning-maternity-leave.html I don't disagree with her on maternity leave, the current rules are unfair to nearly everyone, including small businesses. twoot fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 17:11
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Jonnty posted:Time to have your heart broken (like mine was when I read this first time): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/9829933/Ill-informed-Mary-Berry-criticised-for-condemning-maternity-leave.html She makes a very valid point- from a strictly business point of view, women of child-bearing age are not an asset. She's saying that the current laws are counterproductive as they actually make it less likely for businesses to hire young women. Based on what I've heard speaking to people in business, she's completely right. Regardless, having different political views does not automatically make her a bad person.
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Jan 30, 2013 18:10
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Plucky Brit posted:She makes a very valid point- from a strictly business point of view, women of child-bearing age are not an asset. She's saying that the current laws are counterproductive as they actually make it less likely for businesses to hire young women. Based on what I've heard speaking to people in business, she's completely right. I'm 99% sure that being against feminism because you want to have doors opened for you and depend on men does, in fact, make you a bad person. They were namedropping her in the latest GDST newsletter as an alumna as well, what a pisstake. I realise that she's from a different time and all that, but they're still holding her up as some kind of role model for female students.
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Jan 30, 2013 18:23
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Googling 'utopia mail' beings up a Daily Mail OUTRAGE! page, linking it to Sandy Hook and conveniently hosting a clip of the scene in question, with screenshots of tweets showing disgust.
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Jan 30, 2013 18:39
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Mail comments posted:Watched this program twice, what a foul mouthed obnoxious show, thought it couldn't get any worse, but the school massacre beats all, never again will I watch this total c*** He watched it twice.
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Jan 30, 2013 18:49
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tentish klown posted:He watched it twice. He raged at its foul mouth then used the c-word 
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Jan 30, 2013 19:10
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hounslow rob posted:Googling 'utopia mail' beings up a Daily Mail OUTRAGE! page, linking it to Sandy Hook and conveniently hosting a clip of the scene in question, with screenshots of tweets showing disgust. "it's disgraceful the violent videos available for children to find on the internet with no parental locks" "Here, look at this violent video that we've hosted available for children to find on the internet with no parental locks"
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Jan 30, 2013 19:19
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Rarity posted:He raged at its foul mouth then used the c-word I'm pretty sure that he censored "crap" in a manner that proved wholly counterproductive. Utopia does suffer from the genre pastiche plotting and gratuitous shock-impact violence of pretty much every time modern British drama miniseries attempt Serious Business but so far I still prefer it to Shadow Line or Red Riding. Probably because it's more deliberately pulpy and there's some sense of humour to it.
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Jan 30, 2013 19:26
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twoot posted:I don't disagree with her on maternity leave, the current rules are unfair to nearly everyone, including small businesses. GimpChimp posted:Utopia does suffer from the genre pastiche plotting and gratuitous shock-impact violence of pretty much every time modern British drama miniseries attempt Serious Business It's still shocking to stand back and look at the fact that these programs are being broadcast on the Beeb or Channel 4, and then compare the poo poo the US gets on it's non-cable channels. We should definitely be grateful, I just wish they'd bridge that Serious Business gap. Akuma fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 20:32
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I've just started watching Utopia and have only skimmed over the last couple of posts about it in order not to get spoiled. But am I correct in assuming that the violence gets worse? Because it's already pretty hard for me to take in the first episode.
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Jan 30, 2013 20:55
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Akuma posted:Except the kids that are able to be raised full-time by their mothers? That's the point of long maternity leave, it's not about healing up from giving birth. One day soon those kids being born now will be the general populace, and we should absolutely give them the best chance at growing into productive members of society. Neither maternity leave nor feminism is as simple an issue as Mary Berry seems to believe, which suggests to me that she sucks at critical thinking. Unless it's thinking critically about delectable baked goods. The length of the maternity leave isn't the problem, its the fact that for whatever reason (afaik we are the only country to do it this way) we make it the woman's employers responsibility to support her financially during her leave. This means that for a small or medium sized business they not only have to hire somebody to replace the woman during leave, but also pay her even though she isn't there. Given the current economic situation, most businesses don't just have money sitting around to pay people who aren't there. In most other countries it is the government who pays the woman while she is off (usually a percentage of her existing salary up to a maximum), which makes sense because it is society(and ultimately gov't) who benefits from good bonding during the first year of life. When you tie that system with the fact that until very recently a man could not take leave of equal length to a woman's, it made females of childbearing age a poor choice to recruit for SMEs when compared with a male applicant with equivalent qualifications.
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Jan 30, 2013 20:57
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Noreaus posted:Jessica Hyde's acting is really bad. Actually, all of the acting in the main group is sub-standard. There's some really bad dialogue there as well "The firewall is triple encrypted!" I agree. Jessica Hyde is becoming increasingly annoying over time.
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Jan 30, 2013 21:12
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DominoDancing posted:I've just started watching Utopia and have only skimmed over the last couple of posts about it in order not to get spoiled. But am I correct in assuming that the violence gets worse? Because it's already pretty hard for me to take in the first episode.
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Jan 30, 2013 21:19
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Metrication posted:I agree. Jessica Hyde is becoming increasingly annoying over time. I'll say I really enjoyed her reaction to Grant asking if he'd live a normal life afterwards. The idea of the poo poo-hot guerrilla saviour being also a deeply terrible person who undercuts her all-business patter by indulging in petty bullshit is fun. It's just the performance itself leaves a lot to be desired, but it's not alone there.
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Jan 30, 2013 21:21
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Metrication posted:I agree. Jessica Hyde is becoming increasingly annoying over time. Why an earth is the direction for her character apparently "bland, emotionless, boring place-holder"? It works for the assassin character, but it doesn't really draw me into the narrative when the person opposing the assassin is a carbon copy of him.
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Jan 30, 2013 21:26
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Playing for the shock factor requires more restraint. After the millionth scene it's no longer shocking. I think my other gripe with Utopia would be the villains. While in the beginning they were mysterious it made sense for their plot to be so vague. But now they're getting fleshed out more but I'm still sitting here asking 'what is their motivation again?"
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Jan 30, 2013 21:38
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twoot posted:The length of the maternity leave isn't the problem, its the fact that for whatever reason (afaik we are the only country to do it this way) we make it the woman's employers responsibility to support her financially during her leave. This means that for a small or medium sized business they not only have to hire somebody to replace the woman during leave, but also pay her even though she isn't there.
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Jan 30, 2013 21:43
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Cerv posted:Playing for the shock factor requires more restraint. After the millionth scene it's no longer shocking. This right here, other media 'writing' (books, comics and games) really relies on this way too much and it is quite frankly becoming tired.
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Jan 30, 2013 21:48
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Cerv posted:Playing for the shock factor requires more restraint. After the millionth scene it's no longer shocking. It kind of reminds me of the plot to Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy. You have a shadowy organisation that can't be allowed to get hold of the MacGuffin or they'll be able to  take over the world Except that you quickly discover that the organisation is so immensely powerful that the macguffin is insignificant in terms of the power it would give them. The shock stuff is starting to feel a little over the top. Mr Rabbit's backstory sounded like something Mark Millar craps out.
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Jan 30, 2013 21:52
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edit: how'd i manage to quote someone and end up in the wrong thread? edit2: Oh wait I'm being really dense and thought a post about maternity pay would be in the UK D&D thread. And someone else wrote what I was going to anyway (you reclaim your costs from the government, unless the employer offers additional pay but they don't have to do that and can make you repay it gross if you leave too soon) We've been watching Utopia and I've certainly been enjoying it. Particularly like how colourful it is. To whoever was asking about the violence, I'd say the scenes in the first episode were the most gruesome to me. poshphil fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 21:57
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Way To Go, where a Nigerian Gangster and hot Vet Lady are more attention grabbing than the main three characters. Such a shame that it is rubbish.
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Jan 30, 2013 22:04
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