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az posted:It's cute that you use a comedy post to launch into an angry attack on, I'm not really sure, history, Germans, reality? To be fair, Teutoburg is horribly overrated. Though yeah he kind of did overreact there.
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Feb 3, 2013 04:13
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az posted:It's cute that you use a comedy post to launch into an angry attack on, I'm not really sure, history, Germans, reality? Jeez calm down it wasn't a personal attack so don't take it as such. The point is that, in actuality, Teutoburg really didn't change much. Historians have learned a lot about Roman history since the times of Gibbon.
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Feb 3, 2013 04:15
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Considering the time period they chose, I think every playable faction should be in the Mediterranean, clans and tribes just don't have the organization, infrastructure or political systems needed to expand across large areas and maintain armies.  DarkCrawler posted:Well you know, except at the end (of the Western Roman Empire). But this game won't go there, so... I would honestly love to see a Dark Ages DLC; Fielding small raiding parties and warbands using using mostly spears and leather armor? Maybe calling in a 1 turn use peasant levy armed with clubs and rocks? Having to spend a couple of years income to get some chain mail and swords for your bodyguard unit? Inability to repair or build stone structures? Personally, I think it could be really fun. Especially if they added the Visigothic and Vandal kingdoms, The Byzantine-Sassanid wars and maybe had the Muslim Conquests as the end game.
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Feb 3, 2013 04:15
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Wait, why the gently caress is CA even limiting the game to 8 factions? I know DLC will inevitably flesh out more but I was expecting 12ish factions in vanilla and then a few more with DLC. I understand they don't want to have the copy/paste faction problem of RTW but it's not that hard to add in some individuality. Hire some spergs from twcenter, they would happily do it free of charge.
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Feb 3, 2013 04:17
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I don't really mind as long as each faction is diverse. I really hope the gauls aren't just the germans with different garishly colored pants.
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Feb 3, 2013 04:22
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Wait, why the gently caress is CA even limiting the game to 8 factions? I know DLC will inevitably flesh out more but I was expecting 12ish factions in vanilla and then a few more with DLC. I understand they don't want to have the copy/paste faction problem of RTW but it's not that hard to add in some individuality. Hire some spergs from twcenter, they would happily do it free of charge. Money.
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Feb 3, 2013 04:23
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Wait, why the gently caress is CA even limiting the game to 8 factions? I know DLC will inevitably flesh out more but I was expecting 12ish factions in vanilla and then a few more with DLC. I understand they don't want to have the copy/paste faction problem of RTW but it's not that hard to add in some individuality. Hire some spergs from twcenter, they would happily do it free of charge. I thought it was like 8 playable factions among others. I may be (probably am) wrong.
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Feb 3, 2013 04:23
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Isn't a Roman civil war going to be a big part of the game so wouldn't there be those enemies as well?
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Feb 3, 2013 04:24
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Wait, why the gently caress is CA even limiting the game to 8 factions? I know DLC will inevitably flesh out more but I was expecting 12ish factions in vanilla and then a few more with DLC. I understand they don't want to have the copy/paste faction problem of RTW but it's not that hard to add in some individuality. Hire some spergs from twcenter, they would happily do it free of charge. Its possibly gameplay related, like how Rome has the 3 families gimmick, so each faction would (i'm guessing) have their own events, sound track, and probably unique interface design, this would explain the 8 faction limit. Ghetto Prince posted:I would honestly love to see a Dark Ages DLC; Fielding small raiding parties and warbands using using mostly spears and leather armor? Maybe calling in a 1 turn use peasant levy armed with clubs and rocks? Having to spend a couple of years income to get some chain mail and swords for your bodyguard unit? Inability to repair or build stone structures? Personally, I think it could be really fun. Especially if they added the Visigothic and Vandal kingdoms, The Byzantine-Sassanid wars and maybe had the Muslim Conquests as the end game. This might happen, CA rarely revisits Expansion/DLC time periods twice if ever, my guess is the last dlc would probably begin with either the Muslim conquests or Belisarius and ending at the Norman conquest of Britain to bridge that gap between Medieval and Rome. Fizzil fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Feb 3, 2013 |
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Feb 3, 2013 04:42
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Lacklustre Hero posted:I thought it was like 8 playable factions among others. I may be (probably am) wrong. Yeah this is what I thought. Was unlocking factions in Shogun 2 via mods possible?
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Feb 3, 2013 04:45
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Wait, why the gently caress is CA even limiting the game to 8 factions? I know DLC will inevitably flesh out more but I was expecting 12ish factions in vanilla and then a few more with DLC. I understand they don't want to have the copy/paste faction problem of RTW but it's not that hard to add in some individuality. Hire some spergs from twcenter, they would happily do it free of charge. I thought it had a lot to do with how they were altering the design of the campaign world. Firstly, as Fizzil mentioned, all the factions are supposed to have their own "story" type events, making the amount of work put into each individual playable faction considerably greater than the original. Secondly, I was under the impression that most of the settlements in Rome 2's campaign will be unaligned, sort of like the bandit faction used to be in Rome and Medieval 2, in order to simulate the primitive nature of most of Europe during the period. Personally, I don't really mind the small number of factions as long as the campaign map has more depth than the previous games.
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Feb 3, 2013 05:07
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Flippycunt posted:Yeah this is what I thought. Was unlocking factions in Shogun 2 via mods possible? Yes it is. Problem is: Those minor clans aren't fleshed out at all in the base game. You'd have to make bonuses/units for them from scratch. Add to this the simple fact that the clan selection menu doesn't even support more than 8 ( + DLC clans) at once so you have to use pre-packed files that switch them out.
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Feb 3, 2013 05:35
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Endman posted:I thought it had a lot to do with how they were altering the design of the campaign world. Firstly, as Fizzil mentioned, all the factions are supposed to have their own "story" type events, making the amount of work put into each individual playable faction considerably greater than the original. Secondly, I was under the impression that most of the settlements in Rome 2's campaign will be unaligned, sort of like the bandit faction used to be in Rome and Medieval 2, in order to simulate the primitive nature of most of Europe during the period. Oh no I hope you're wrong; I was really looking forward to every province having an actual faction on it. Or at least the more major provinces? If it's not a main faction there's no reason they need to add the story missions to it, and most of the possible in between factions would be a mix of the major factions' units and cultures, so it shouldn't take too much work to implement them. The map just feels so much richer when 4/5ths of it aren't grey "rebels".
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Feb 3, 2013 05:39
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Koramei posted:The map just feels so much richer when 4/5ths of it aren't grey "rebels". I'm just going from vague memory here, so don't take it as gospel, but I'm reasonably sure they won't be the generic grey rebels from the previous games, but they might be something like "Celtic Barbarians" or "Germanic Tribesmen". It would make a lot more sense than having factions governing all of, for example, Gaul with a central AI when in reality they were a loose association of tribes that generally did their own thing when there wasn't a common enemy. Edit: Okay, so I had a bit of a dig around and in this thread Jack Lusted talks very briefly about how many of the factions present in the first game are going to be split up into lots of smaller ones. So I was about half right. There will be fewer big factions, and most of the provinces in beginning of the campaign will probably belong to these little factions. He specifically references that the Gauls, Iberians and Britons are going to be split up into smaller groups, one of which (the Iceni) we already know is going to be playable. Apart from the obvious DLC thing, this is probably a contributing reason to there being such a small number of factions in the base game, since it's not going to be possible to play as big barbarian factions such as "Gaul" any more. Although I wouldn't rule out one of the Gallic tribes making an appearance in a DLC pack. Endman fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Feb 3, 2013 |
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Feb 3, 2013 05:54
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Come to think of it, the talk about Germans just reminded me - anyone remember the mighty Germanic phalanxes?
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Feb 3, 2013 06:45
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It would be interesting if they actually did do the functionality where each of the tribes had their own land that did their own thing, but a lot of them would band together to go to town against you if you attacked one. Probably wouldn't be that difficult to do using the already existing diplomacy functions.
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Feb 3, 2013 08:13
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az posted:It's cute that you use a comedy post to launch into an angry attack on, I'm not really sure, history, Germans, reality? It will also blow your mind when you realize that the main reason for the Roman defeat was because of Arminius, the German deserter who was raised and trained in Roman Legionary fashion and as such knew brilliantly when and how to attack the Romans. Turns how the most known defeat of the Romans against the Germans was planned by one who was almost more Roman than German (and who died less than ten years after the victory because of constant Roman punitive campaigns against the Germans  )Endman posted:I'm just going from vague memory here, so don't take it as gospel, but I'm reasonably sure they won't be the generic grey rebels from the previous games, but they might be something like "Celtic Barbarians" or "Germanic Tribesmen". It would make a lot more sense than having factions governing all of, for example, Gaul with a central AI when in reality they were a loose association of tribes that generally did their own thing when there wasn't a common enemy. Tomn posted:Come to think of it, the talk about Germans just reminded me - anyone remember the mighty Germanic phalanxes?
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Feb 3, 2013 08:15
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Mans posted:Can nations appear after being defeated in the latest Total War games? Yes. Those damned Ikko Ikki never die 
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Feb 3, 2013 08:22
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Mans posted:Can nations appear after being defeated in the latest Total War games? In Napoleon, if a faction was destroyed by another and you later conquered what used to be their home province you could chose to "liberate" it, thus spawning the faction back into the game as your vassal. There were also some provinces that you could liberate despite being occupied by another faction from the beginning of the campaign. If I remember correctly, nearly half of the Ottoman Empire's territory in Napoleon can be liberated into various smaller nations.
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Feb 3, 2013 10:03
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Koramei posted:Yes. Those damned Ikko Ikki never die I had a clan come back from the dead just yesterday. I'd taken the majority of provinces belonging to Takeda and then the Ikko Ikki finished them off by taking their last province that was way off to the north. A few turns later they pop back up in Kai and then I get this:  They asked me to break my trade agreement with my only ally (and who I'd been allied with for the entirety of the game) AND pay them 35,000 for the privilege. With a heavy heart I had to turn down this generous offer and next turn I crushed their half stack of ashigaru and took their warhorses. Has anyone else seen the AI demand such ridiculous terms?
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Feb 3, 2013 13:38
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Every Total War game I've played has ridiculous terms such as that. Hell pretty much every game of Empire has the Barbary States asking for a ceasefire as long as I pay them 2000-5000 gold. Or there's the classic 
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Feb 3, 2013 15:00
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The AI in Empire was so drat stupid, I remember when I conquered most of Poland with them only having one city left and I who didn't want to gently caress up the borders to much offered them most of their cities back for peace which of course was unacceptable.
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Feb 3, 2013 15:20
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Mashed Potato posted:They asked me to break my trade agreement with my only ally (and who I'd been allied with for the entirety of the game) AND pay them 35,000 for the privilege. With a heavy heart I had to turn down this generous offer and next turn I crushed their half stack of ashigaru and took their warhorses. I remember in Shogun 2, the AI DOES occasionally make bone-headed deals of that sort, but they're usually willing to hear out a more reasonable counter-offer, or even a completely unrelated deal. For instance, in your particular example, I'd bet that if you'd countered with just a trade agreement, they'd probably have either accepted, or pushed a few koku in one way or another. It kinda feels like they're just trying their luck in hopes you'll agree to something ridiculous when what they're actually hoping for or would be willing to accept is a lot more modest. Edit: Shogun 2's AI, from what I recall, is actually better than earlier games in regard to "stupid terms" in that while they do occasionally propose stupid deals, they generally don't insist on them and are (more) willing to talk peace if beaten or be bargained down on other deals.
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Feb 3, 2013 15:33
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Tomn posted:I remember in Shogun 2, the AI DOES occasionally make bone-headed deals of that sort, but they're usually willing to hear out a more reasonable counter-offer, or even a completely unrelated deal. For instance, in your particular example, I'd bet that if you'd countered with just a trade agreement, they'd probably have either accepted, or pushed a few koku in one way or another. It kinda feels like they're just trying their luck in hopes you'll agree to something ridiculous when what they're actually hoping for or would be willing to accept is a lot more modest. Yeah you're probably right, I didn't even bother with a counter offer however because I was planning on taking that province in the next turn or two anyway.
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Feb 3, 2013 20:05
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Does anyone know if there's a mod that prevents metsuke from apprehending enemy agents while they are in their own cities? It doesn't make much sense that they can apprehend an enemy metsuke while the metsuke is actually currently overseeing a city. It's weird and I feel like not allowing them that ability would actually make it kind of awesome to try and slip away etc.
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Feb 4, 2013 01:21
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After reading about RTW2, I really want to break out RTW1. Its been a long long time, but the one thing I recall that reaaaaally bothered me when I played it (and maybe its been fixed in a patch?) was squalor. If you play long enough, all your core cities get too big, and your squalor would become unsustainable. I'd eventually be forced to let the city rebel, then come back in and exterminate the place. What mod makes RTW the most fun? I don't really care about realism that much, I mostly just want to avoid having to deal with annoying things like that. And if it can beef up some of the diplomacy/gameplay, all the better.
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Feb 4, 2013 01:33
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not joseph stalin posted:What mod makes RTW the most fun? I don't really care about realism that much, I mostly just want to avoid having to deal with annoying things like that. And if it can beef up some of the diplomacy/gameplay, all the better. A lot of people like Europa Barbarorum but I think it's too dense and accurate in all the wrong ways for a mod all about realism. Its art especially for the barbarians and steppe tribes is pretty lacking; it's almost impossible to distinguish any of the buildings. Still though, a lot of people like it, and if you're willing to get into it I'm sure it'd make the game much more fun, so don't necessarily listen to me. Terrae Expugnandae is what I'd recommend; it's basically Rome+. It removes the three family system and gives you Epirus and Bactrea to replace them (and changes Egypt to Ptolemaic Egypt), has generally vastly improved unit textures, and opens up the map all the way to India (although that's basically a given in RTW mods); yet the game still feels like Rome Total War despite these changes. It adds realism to the game without making everything brown.
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Feb 4, 2013 01:45
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I don't really like pre-cannon navies in Shogun Total War, and if you are going for a better navy, your economy and ground military will suffer a lot. The campaign turn limit is really short too - what is it, 200 turns? Though it was certainly amusing to see a Sengoku Bune take my Shogun ship completely by itself.  It was Rank 1, and they lost like 40 guys while killing the 200 melee troops inside. So much for Japan's flagship!
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Feb 4, 2013 05:21
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not joseph stalin posted:After reading about RTW2, I really want to break out RTW1. Its been a long long time, but the one thing I recall that reaaaaally bothered me when I played it (and maybe its been fixed in a patch?) was squalor. If you play long enough, all your core cities get too big, and your squalor would become unsustainable. I'd eventually be forced to let the city rebel, then come back in and exterminate the place. Roma Surrectum is fun as hell and doesn't focus too much on historical details while still maintaining a rich and detailed roster. You also have a lot of ways to deal with squalor that don't involve purging half of the inhabitants every few years via building suburbs and other auxiliary structures.
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Feb 4, 2013 06:03
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Azran posted:I don't really like pre-cannon navies in Shogun Total War, and if you are going for a better navy, your economy and ground military will suffer a lot. The campaign turn limit is really short too - what is it, 200 turns? a navy is completely optional and often counterproductive.
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Feb 4, 2013 06:16
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Rome Total Realism is pretty good and not as dense as EB, but I always stick with Europa Barbaroum
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Feb 4, 2013 06:19
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Zyla posted:a navy is completely optional and often counterproductive. But when you play clans like the Shimazu, I was told trade routes were essential. Having no bunes makes those routes too easy to raid by Wako Raiders.
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Feb 4, 2013 06:28
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Azran posted:But when you play clans like the Shimazu, I was told trade routes were essential. Having no bunes makes those routes too easy to raid by Wako Raiders. Well, It is a tremendous advantage if you can seize them early but it places your clan on really tenuous footing when realm split comes and you lose a majority of the income from it immediately and then completely by the doomfleets of a dozen clans that are united to kill you. They're an amazing way to get ahead early but resources used to make fite boats and upkeep are resources you could be using to make dozens more land units to take more territories. If you can win a couple of sea fites and capture and repair the enemy ships you get from their attacks, then by all means maintain that stack and have them hang out. It can snowball pretty effectively into free doomstacks for you. Sea battles are just so unfun I opt out and make the baseline of my economy markets and sake dens and such. edit: the wakos attack with trade ships of their own, so its not all bad just to fight back with the trade ships.
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Feb 4, 2013 07:21
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Except the massive gold influx from trade nodes makes it waaaaaaayyyyyyy easier to develop your territories so you eventually face Realm Divide with defensible border provinces and interior economy provinces with fully built market/ninja chains. Trade nodes are ridiculous money for very low cost that pays itself back almost instantly, so you don't "spend money on ships you could be spending on troops," you "spend money on ships that pay themselves and more/better troops that you could otherwise possibly afford.". You only run into trouble if you somehow don't notice you're massively overbuilding your land armies right before you trigger a Realm Divide. Just don't focus either research or serious economic effort on navy stuff- spam medium bunes if you've got to make a show of having a naval presence because they're cheap as heck in both initial outlay and upkeep for what they do. The point of the game at which you might decide you need bigger boats pretty much directly coincides with the point at which trade nodes stop being as good so you don't really suffer for neglecting of your navy. But I totally agree sea battles are pretty awful- I generally aim to avoid having to actually fight naval combats entirely or arrange it so that I can safely autoresolve in my favor.
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Feb 4, 2013 12:02
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Or you can just go Christian and rule the waves with Nanbans 
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Feb 4, 2013 13:52
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As long as you don't get the black ship. It seems good on paper but it means you have to fight every single naval battle unless you want to pay 2000 in repair bills after every one. If you auto resolve a fight using the black ship it gets crippled every time no matter how many enemy ships there are from my experiences with it. Then if you take the fight yourself you can win without losing a single man. It just gets even more incredibly repetitive and boring than regular naval fights. Speaking of rome mods, is there one that improves diplomacy so that not every ally randomly backstabs you? I just started playing again and it's the thing that bothers me the most about the older total war games.
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Feb 4, 2013 15:53
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I remember there being a forced diplomacy mod, its meant to be used for LPs though and not cheesing the game with.
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Feb 4, 2013 15:55
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Mori Nanban ships are hilarious and two fleets of 2 or 3 of them can completely lock down every other clan on the seas. If you're willing to fight tons of boring, triple-speed naval battles every single round. e: Put a general in the stack and he gets experience like mad, too! e2: And, speaking of the Mori - Their Wako Pirates are amazing units. Half the price/upkeep of katana samurai, almost equal stats. 
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Feb 4, 2013 15:57
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I take the multiplayer isn't worth it? I've played 5 matches so far, and though every single one of them has been a Costly Victory for the other guy, I hate the unit limitation they imposed. I just got rocked by 6 FOTS line infantry units because my best cavalry unit were Light Cavalry. 
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Feb 5, 2013 03:59
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Azran posted:I take the multiplayer isn't worth it? I've played 5 matches so far, and though every single one of them has been a Costly Victory for the other guy, I hate the unit limitation they imposed. I just got rocked by 6 FOTS line infantry units because my best cavalry unit were Light Cavalry. Multiplayer is great fun, but the locking out of various units is less than ideal. You can bypass it a bit by buying the DLC unit packs, as they add a veteran unit of the types they provide which tend to fill the gaps of not having a fully unlocked roster (like Fire Cavalry basically being Great Guard or Wako Raiders being like Katana Samurai). It's not ideal, but it doesn't take too long to get done.
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Feb 5, 2013 04:44
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