|
Cingulate posted:
der juicen pegged it exactly. Why the hell does the flagship of an major organization look decrepit and militaristic? Hey guys we come in peace. Don't mind the fact that our ship looks rather mean and nasty looking. That was a huge step back from the original series were the Enterprise was pretty dam colorful for what you could do in terms of practical effects.
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2013 21:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 22:04 |
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:Why the hell does the flagship of an major organization look decrepit and militaristic
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2013 22:58
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:Why the hell does the flagship of an major organization look decrepit and militaristic? Hey guys we come in peace. Don't mind the fact that our ship looks rather mean and nasty looking. Surely this could be seen as revealing something about the true nature of the federation? That they claim to come in peace and are utopian and all that but they're actually forcing their utopia on other races.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2013 23:12
|
|
A human heart posted:Surely this could be seen as revealing something about the true nature of the federation? That they claim to come in peace and are utopian and all that but they're actually forcing their utopia on other races. I don't think this ever actually happens though? In most cases that I remember, whenever a species tells the Enterprise to gently caress off they tend to actually comply pretty easily unless there's some sort of living right getting stomped on.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2013 23:32
|
|
|
mr. stefan posted:I don't think this ever actually happens though? In most cases that I remember, whenever a species tells the Enterprise to gently caress off they tend to actually comply pretty easily unless there's some sort of living right getting stomped on. It seemed to happen all the time with ships that weren't the enterprise though. Thats why Kirk and Picard and Cameron (  ) got the command, they were the only non dick captains in Starfleet. Got a Klingon with a history of violence? I don't see the harm in giving him our most advanced warship. Bipolar Agressive Jerk? Send her off to hunt the Maquis with a full armament and the most advanced computer system in the fleet!
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 09:04
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:What ship do you mean? The TMP refit? I was comparing the TOS-era movies design to JJTrek. JJTrek looks sleek, new, futuristic. It comes from our time, rather than the 60's. I think it looks great. I like TNG's Enterprise because I grew up with it, so I'm sure I'd :sperg: about it if they wanted to redo that, but I was never, have never been invested in the old trek, though I enjoyed the movies except for TMP.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 09:05
|
|
|
I love how LCARS still seems like a viable computing system. Just incomprehensible enough to be realistic. e: For a starship I mean. It's not made for everyday people, it's made for Starship Operators.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 09:10
|
|
|
der juicen posted:I was comparing the TOS-era movies design to JJTrek. JJTrek looks sleek, new, futuristic. It comes from our time, rather than the 60's. You only think it looks like it came from the 60s because of the gift of hindsight. Most everything that preceded it was a flying saucer or a Republic serial-style rocketship; the Enterprise design is quite unique for its era, as are most of its internal set elements like the colored mood lighting and the arrangement of the bridge. It feels old not because it followed a bunch of standards and cliches from its own time, but because it pioneered them, so long ago that they became standards and cliches all over again. In 50 years JJTrek will look at least as dated, if not moreso for being a resurfaced copy instead of an original production.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 12:37
|
|
|
Kazy posted:I love how LCARS still seems like a viable computing system. Just incomprehensible enough to be realistic. Beats the TOS system where NOTHING IS MARKED OR LABELED!
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 13:22
|
|
|
der juicen posted:I was comparing the TOS-era movies design to JJTrek. JJTrek looks sleek, new, futuristic. It comes from our time, rather than the 60's.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 13:29
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:What ship do you mean? The TMP refit? None of the Enterprises really look decrepit or militaristic, including the Abramsprise. The only outwardly intimidating thing about them is their size. When I think of a militaristic starship I think of something like the Sulaco from Aliens with it's utilitarian gunmetal grey hull and giant cannons mounted on each side.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 13:50
|
|
|
In fact, I think all of the NCC-1701 Enterprises look fairly fragile and not at all war-like, but futuristic and majestic. Which is why I'm asking what he's calling decrepit or mean.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 14:06
|
|
|
BrandonGK posted:When I think of a militaristic starship I think of something like the Sulaco from Aliens with it's utilitarian gunmetal grey hull and giant cannons mounted on each side. The Sulaco itself is one giant gun. I forget which one inspired which, but the Sulaco resembles by the pulse rifles carried by the Marines. Getting back to Star Trek, the only issue I have with the J.J. Abrams' Enterprise is the Budweiser factory Engineering section. It's way, way, too open in my opinion. Granted, the original show and Next Gen had areas with big open spaces, but it filled them with visible signs of power that have been condensed in such spaces. Supposedly, they had the engineering sketched out, but it the Budweiser factory used as a stand-in for budgetary reasons. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Feb 12, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 15:13
|
|
|
Yes, one of the design guys posted renderings on his blog at one point, and they matched up better with the engineering sections that we know and love from earlier ST.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 16:14
|
|
|
I like the idea of the engineering section being this dirty, utilitarian industrial space where the real work gets done. It's the execution that was the problem.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 18:32
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:In fact, I think all of the NCC-1701 Enterprises look fairly fragile and not at all war-like, but futuristic and majestic. Which is why I'm asking what he's calling decrepit or mean. I do not think the earlier trek, TOS-era looks majestic. I'm guessing it's just a signature of the time it was made in that gives it a different look. Take JJTrek, the ship looks exciting, sleek, regal, and badass all into one ship.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 18:37
|
|
|
Star Trek 2011 is the most recent example, but Star Trek as a franchise has a gift for making what should be completely ridiculous spaceship designs and making them look good.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
FigurativelyHitler posted:Star Trek 2011 is the most recent example, but Star Trek as a franchise has a gift for making what should be completely ridiculous spaceship designs and making them look good. This is true. I mean, I guess I could be in the miniority. And drat do I love Romulan/Klingon warships. So sexy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 18:56
|
|
|
They're even hotter in HD.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 19:05
|
|
|
BrandonGK posted:None of the Enterprises really look decrepit or militaristic, including the Abramsprise. The only outwardly intimidating thing about them is their size.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 20:01
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:Well I was referring to the interior of the refit which looked pretty dull and drab for the flagship. I remember the original series interior being more brighter. I remember reading that the sets were so colorful in TOS because color TV was still somewhat of a novelty. So Roddenberry told the set designer to go crazy with the color, to stand out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 20:03
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I think the TMP Enterprise is the best, and most ... what's the word, real? The most real-looking ship in all of ST. The TMP Enterprise isn't shiny at all, it's all matte gray and matte eggshell inside and out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 20:55
|
|
|
Star Trek TPM had some interesting sets. I liked Kirk's quarters and the big crew meeting area, but the bridge was just too goddamned dark.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 21:08
|
|
|
TheBuilder posted:Star Trek TPM had some interesting sets. I liked Kirk's quarters and the big crew meeting area, but the bridge was just too goddamned dark. I like the constant presence of the ceilings and all those buttresses pushing into the frame. It felt very submariney at times.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 21:10
|
|
|
penismightier posted:The TMP Enterprise isn't shiny at all, it's all matte gray and matte eggshell inside and out. It was supposed to be shiny, though. They had coated it in some pearlescent varnish which was apparently gorgeous beyond all belief but photographed horribly, so they emptied a few dozen cans of dullcote onto the model and welp
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 22:14
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:It was supposed to be shiny, though. They had coated it in some pearlescent varnish which was apparently gorgeous beyond all belief but photographed horribly, so they emptied a few dozen cans of dullcote onto the model and welp Ha, that's like how the monolith in 2001 was supposed to be clear but that also photographed horribly. They lucked out, the matte Enterprise looks great and there's not a lot of other ships that look like it colorwise, only the Millennium Falcon comes to mind.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 22:19
|
|
|
I don't mean "shiny" as in, it reflects light or whatever, I mean, it's not decrepit at all (in TMP), it's tidy and new. I'm not good with words about how stuff looks in films. It's not just a pretty ship, it's a pretty ship.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 23:05
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I don't mean "shiny" as in, it reflects light or whatever, I mean, it's not decrepit at all (in TMP), it's tidy and new. I'm not good with words about how stuff looks in films. Ohhh, I follow ya. Yeah the exterior of it is grand as hell, the nacelles are practically art deco. I don't like the exterior of the JJ Enterprise, it feels pointlessly complicated, but you don't think the interiors looks pretty and new? I love the smoothness of everything, and I even love the totally illogical concrete of the engine room, it feels like when you see the kitchen of a fancy restaurant and it's just as utilitarian as any other kitchen.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 23:23
|
|
|
I like the concept and even the look of the engine room, but I couldn't help but think "man it's going to really really suck if they want to do any more engine room scenes in sequels." One plus about the fancy engine rooms of Treks past is that they could be done on a sound stage same as anything else.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 23:26
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:I like the concept and even the look of the engine room, but I couldn't help but think "man it's going to really really suck if they want to do any more engine room scenes in sequels." One plus about the fancy engine rooms of Treks past is that they could be done on a sound stage same as anything else. Nah, they can always use the "damaged and got refit" excuse; single line of throw away dialog and you're done.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 23:43
|
|
|
Hasters posted:Nah, they can always use the "damaged and got refit" excuse; single line of throw away dialog and you're done. I thought the Budweiser Core looked great, so I say they do one better and have it be refitted to a different real world facility in each sequel. Like Rusty and Audrey in the National Lampoon's movies, only with tie-in money.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2013 00:19
|
|
|
I'm very much anti-brewery, in large part because the scene in the brewery room is probably the worst part of the movie. It's way too long for a slapstick scene that's never ever funny.penismightier posted:Ohhh, I follow ya. Yeah the exterior of it is grand as hell, the nacelles are practically art deco. I don't like the exterior of the JJ Enterprise, it feels pointlessly complicated, but you don't think the interiors looks pretty and new? I love the smoothness of everything, and I even love the totally illogical concrete of the engine room, it feels like when you see the kitchen of a fancy restaurant and it's just as utilitarian as any other kitchen. The TMP enterprise indeed blurs the lines between architecture and design. I think she also conveys her magnitude a lot better than all other ships. The thing they're flying in First Contact and Nemesis, I forgot the name, it's probably supposed to be twice as large as the Refit, but she doesn't look HUGE. She looks like the product of a billion bucks graphics department - which is some form of aesthetic; but, she doesn't look like she has actual, physical size. The Refit looks huge. Sadly, the JJTrek Enterprise doesn't quite live up to that standard. Though it might be the next one's gonna give her more mass.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2013 01:40
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:The TMP enterprise indeed blurs the lines between architecture and design. I think she also conveys her magnitude a lot better than all other ships. The thing they're flying in First Contact and Nemesis, I forgot the name, it's probably supposed to be twice as large as the Refit, but she doesn't look HUGE. She looks like the product of a billion bucks graphics department - which is some form of aesthetic; but, she doesn't look like she has actual, physical size. A lot of it is that they have it both ways - super big AND super fast and maneuverable. It makes sense because future technology whatevs, but it feels less honest and comprehendible than the ponderous Enterprise and Enterprise D.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2013 02:05
|
|
|
Zzulu posted:Aliens has aged really well. I don't know what some of you are smoking Just don't watch the remastered Blu-Ray in five or ten years.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2013 02:44
|
|
|
Crackpipe posted:Just don't watch the remastered Blu-Ray in five or ten years. The movie is over 25 years old already. If it doesn't look aged to someone yet, it likely never will.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2013 02:49
|
|
|
DFu4ever posted:The movie is over 25 years old already. If it doesn't look aged to someone yet, it likely never will. I was referring to the new color grading.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2013 04:07
|
|
|
penismightier posted:A lot of it is that they have it both ways - super big AND super fast and maneuverable. It makes sense because future technology whatevs, but it feels less honest and comprehendible than the ponderous Enterprise and Enterprise D. And that's one of the more minor reasons why the TNG flicks were terrible. We barely even got to know the ENT-E at all, but even with the crew shooting on TNG sets in TUC I felt I really knew the ENT-A by the end of the TOS series.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2013 04:16
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I'm very much anti-brewery, in large part because the scene in the brewery room is probably the worst part of the movie. It's way too long for a slapstick scene that's never ever funny. I think the refit from TMP looks huge because they spend 10 goddamn minutes doing flybys of it at the start of the film.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2013 05:19
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:I like the concept and even the look of the engine room, but I couldn't help but think "man it's going to really really suck if they want to do any more engine room scenes in sequels." One plus about the fancy engine rooms of Treks past is that they could be done on a sound stage same as anything else. The shot all of their warp cores into a black hole, all they need is some "future technology scavenged from the depths of who the gently caress cares blah" and boom, brand new ship gets a brand new engine room with shiny new generation warp cores because why the gently caress not. I would rather they stick with the whole industrial idea for it though, engine rooms in star trek have always been boring vestibules with a glowy tube in them, the engine room should be much more kinetic. Edit: they should film it at the large Hadron Colider, because this:  Is some awesome poo poo. Spaceman Future! fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Feb 13, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2013 05:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 22:04 |
|
|
I think thats one of the best things about the JJtrek, The fact that you get a some shots of how big the Enterprise is. Thats what I'm loving about the trailers for into darkness. You see the "Enterprise" or some other starfleet ship crashing thru buildings like they are nothing. I love me some TOS but it just never correlated in my head that the Enterprise is the size of a aircraft carrier. I really think thats something that they are getting way more right then any other trek movies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2013 05:44
|
|
