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ComposerGuy posted:I think the refit from TMP looks huge because they spend 10 goddamn minutes doing flybys of it at the start of the film.
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Feb 13, 2013 06:01
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ComposerGuy posted:I think the refit from TMP looks huge because they spend 10 goddamn minutes doing flybys of it at the start of the film. And then of course later on when they're inside V'ger the thing is like an ant in someone's car or something.
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Feb 13, 2013 06:20
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Spaceman Future! posted:The shot all of their warp cores into a black hole, all they need is some "future technology scavenged from the depths of who the gently caress cares blah" and boom, brand new ship gets a brand new engine room with shiny new generation warp cores because why the gently caress not. I would rather they stick with the whole industrial idea for it though, engine rooms in star trek have always been boring vestibules with a glowy tube in them, the engine room should be much more kinetic. This is a pretty good idea, I think. I'd like to see something that looks less like a concept drawing and more like something incomprehensibly technical. I mean the motor in an average lawnmower apparently has more parts and is more complicated than a warp drive.
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Feb 13, 2013 06:55
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The main problem with the brewery set is that the moment you realise it's a brewery you can't ever unsee it and suspension of disbelief goes out of the window. I'd actually be happy with the Kirk + Scotty danger sequence because it does actually make sense that the engineering section of a starship would be a central hub for all the plumbing, but for the fact that they're clearly in a brewery. The brief shots of the Kelvin engineering (which I presume are also brewery) were fine. I can totally buy into the perception it gave me that the saucer section of a starship is all whiteness and pristine corridors and ipads, and the lower hull is a more open and utilitarian sprawl of machines that make ship work.
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Feb 13, 2013 12:18
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ComposerGuy posted:I think the refit from TMP looks huge because they spend 10 goddamn minutes doing flybys of it at the start of the film. To be fair, Robert Wise mentions that this is done as part fanservice and part as an attempt to help make V'Ger appear much larger and intimidating when it shows up. After all, we get a good scale for the ship and then seeing that ship dwarfed brings us into the moment of feeling so helpless as the Enterprise is drawn deeper and deeper into its never-ending complexity.
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Feb 13, 2013 13:43
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ComposerGuy posted:I think the refit from TMP looks huge because they spend 10 goddamn minutes doing flybys of it at the start of the film. While the audience cheered. I may have been one of them.
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Feb 13, 2013 14:39
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Okan170 posted:To be fair, Robert Wise mentions that this is done as part fanservice and part as an attempt to help make V'Ger appear much larger and intimidating when it shows up. After all, we get a good scale for the ship and then seeing that ship dwarfed brings us into the moment of feeling so helpless as the Enterprise is drawn deeper and deeper into its never-ending complexity. Oh I never said I didn't LIKE the sequence, just that I think the sequence is responsible for the feeling of "size".
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Feb 13, 2013 16:12
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Okan170 posted:To be fair, Robert Wise mentions that this is done as part fanservice and part as an attempt to help make V'Ger appear much larger and intimidating when it shows up. After all, we get a good scale for the ship and then seeing that ship dwarfed brings us into the moment of feeling so helpless as the Enterprise is drawn deeper and deeper into its never-ending complexity. I still find it amazing how talented Robert Wise is as a director. The guy could direct any genre.
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Feb 13, 2013 16:14
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bobkatt013 posted:I still find it amazing how talented Robert Wise is as a director. The guy could direct any genre.
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Feb 13, 2013 16:47
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Mogomra posted:The Hauting from 1963 is still, by far, my favorite horror movie of all time. I'm amazed every time I think that the same director directed TMP, and The Hauting. Lets not forget West Side Story, Sound of Music, Day the Earth Stood Still, and The Andromeda Strain. The dude was a really good director.
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Feb 13, 2013 16:49
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bobkatt013 posted:I still find it amazing how talented Robert Wise is as a director. The guy could direct any genre. I love a lot of what he did (I will straight up marry The Haunting), but TMP and The Andromeda Strain in particular have this gorgeous vastness to them. I love the idea of going so wide with split diopters and deep focus on fairly constrained sets.
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Feb 15, 2013 19:32
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:It was supposed to be shiny, though. They had coated it in some pearlescent varnish which was apparently gorgeous beyond all belief but photographed horribly, so they emptied a few dozen cans of dullcote onto the model and welp They likely had trouble with it reflecting the blue screen. This is why other movie spaceships tended to be bumpy and rough with lots of model ship parts glued onto the surface- it not only added detail but made photography easier.
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Feb 15, 2013 19:41
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penismightier posted:I love a lot of what he did (I will straight up marry The Haunting), but TMP and The Andromeda Strain in particular have this gorgeous vastness to them. I love the idea of going so wide with split diopters and deep focus on fairly constrained sets.
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Feb 15, 2013 22:09
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Cingulate posted:I have literally no idea about movie terminology, camera angles/lenses and the like, but if you feel like discussing some of what's going on in TMP (or STII, or JJTrek), I'd, like, read it. The tl:dr of it is that Wise used special cameras to have the guy in the foreground & the guy in the background in focus at the same time. On a lot of the bridge shots. This leads to a foreshortening & blurring of the space in between these characters. Edit: typed shots as shits. DocHorror fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Feb 15, 2013 |
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Feb 15, 2013 22:24
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Looks like this: It's basically bifocals for the camera so they can keep things far apart in focus like this:  They still use them a lot but they're usually much better at hiding the change in focus, lots of digital painting and strong line breaks. This shot from All the President's Men uses the same technique but much more subtly:  Robert Wise went balls out in TMP so there are these moments were two people are in focus and some machines around them, and everything else is fuzzy. It's really unworldly, I love it.
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Feb 15, 2013 22:33
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DocHorror posted:The tl:dr of it is that Wise used special cameras to have the guy in the foreground & the guy in the background in focus at the same time. On a lot of the bridge shots. This leads to a foreshortening & blurring of the space in between these characters. Any movie experts, feel free to go into it, post some Star Trek movie screenshots and explain what's happening, cinematography wise, at least I find it fascinating. e:f,b
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Feb 15, 2013 22:33
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Maxwell Lord posted:They likely had trouble with it reflecting the blue screen. This is why other movie spaceships tended to be bumpy and rough with lots of model ship parts glued onto the surface- it not only added detail but made photography easier. It wasn't until ILM took over for ST2 that they really went to town with the dulling spray, because their bluescreen setup couldn't cope with shiny surfaces at all. For ST3 they used yellow light on the model and filtered it out later in an attempt to deal with the blue spill problem, but the Enterprise still looked battleship grey rather than polished t(r)itanium. FWIW, one of my favourite shots in TMP is the Enterprise closing on the V'ger cloud, and the whole ship is lit up by a gorgeous reflected cyan-on-metal glow, which would have been almost impossible to do with bluescreen.
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Feb 15, 2013 22:35
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I was wrong about the foreshortening. That's from the scene with V'Ger probe.
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Feb 15, 2013 22:50
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Borg cubes are not round spaceships 
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Feb 15, 2013 22:56
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penismightier posted:Looks like this: Wise did this a lot in The Andromeda Strain, the big one being in the guard detail that picks up one of the scientists. It's a cool effect and I always wanted to know how it was done. It does seem it's one of those things that can be easily done nowadays without getting the blurring halo effect. Also, it's not foreshortening, it's depth of field.  I may have to rewatch TMP one of these days. I didn't even know Wise did that film until this thread.
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Feb 15, 2013 23:12
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Yonic Symbolism posted:Borg cubes are not round spaceships I'd argue that this monstrosity is pretty pointy too. 
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Feb 15, 2013 23:16
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Pops Mgee posted:I'd argue that this monstrosity is pretty pointy too. I wonder why anyone would ever make a spaceship that looks like that. Every other mining vessel in all of Star Trek looks decidedly less sinister.
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Feb 15, 2013 23:20
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I've always loved this effect. That shot in particular gives a good impression of why it works so well for something like Star Trek, which has officers issuing commands to crew members. You can have a closeup of Kirk in sharp focus and still have his crew member behind ready to take orders in equal focus. It's a very human-centric way to shoot science fiction.
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Feb 15, 2013 23:20
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Mogomra posted:I wonder why anyone would ever make a spaceship that looks like that. Every other mining vessel in all of Star Trek looks decidedly less sinister. They didn't, it "grew" that way after they retrofitted a normal looking ship with Borg technology.
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Feb 15, 2013 23:33
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Mogomra posted:I wonder why anyone would ever make a spaceship that looks like that. Every other mining vessel in all of Star Trek looks decidedly less sinister. It looks like that because Romulans. In all seriousness, I kind of like the idea that it looks so spiky and weird because it opens up like a flower to literally eat asteroids by cutting them up and using tractor beams to pull the valuable ore into the cargo bay. A stretch, certainly, but I personally like it better than "random-rear end miner somehow convinces Romulan scientists to retrofit his ship with borg technology."
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Feb 15, 2013 23:38
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penismightier posted:Looks like this: This is the coolest poo poo ever. Where can I learn more about this stuff?
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Feb 15, 2013 23:45
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Rhyno posted:This is the coolest poo poo ever. Where can I learn more about this stuff?
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Feb 16, 2013 00:01
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Cingulate posted:Hopefully, here! Surely you people wise in the way of cinematography have more stories about Star Trek stuff? Sadly TMP has arguably the best cinematography of all the TOS films. The rest look great but don't usually use any fantastic techniques. Theres interesting stuff about reusing sets but thats about it. If I'm wrong let me know as id love to be wrong. But I dont think I am.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:14
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Is that including 2009's Star Trek?
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Feb 16, 2013 00:17
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Cingulate posted:Is that including 2009's Star Trek? Im a philistine. I find nothing to like about the way ST09 was shot. Theres some good performances but I dont find it particularly engaging.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:26
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Pops Mgee posted:I'd argue that this monstrosity is pretty pointy too. Wasn't going to bring it up because people keep calling trek09 a "star wars movie" anyway.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:28
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DocHorror posted:Im a philistine. I find nothing to like about the way ST09 was shot. Theres some good performances but I dont find it particularly engaging. 
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Feb 16, 2013 00:31
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I love that scene. It's one of the better angles of the new ship. I keep describing any Enterprise as a woman, and here, she's rising from a foam bath. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Feb 16, 2013 |
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Feb 16, 2013 00:34
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That didnt win me over as I don't like that Enterprise. Ill fully adnit to being petty & unreasonable here.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:34
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Cingulate posted:Hopefully, here! Surely you people wise in the way of cinematography have more stories about Star Trek stuff? In The Way of the Warrior, a feature-length episode of DS9, the writers wanted more ships than they could afford to do with existing motion capture techniques. Instead of compositing in ships from stock footage or reducing the scale of the battle sequences, the effects supervisor for the episode placed ships printed onto transparencies in the far background. The Dark One fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Feb 16, 2013 |
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Feb 16, 2013 00:38
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DocHorror posted:That didnt win me over as I don't like that Enterprise. Ill fully adnit to being petty & unreasonable here. I think that Enterprise is needlessly complicated too, but come on, they shot the hell out of that film. 
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Feb 16, 2013 00:43
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Payndz posted:It wasn't until ILM took over for ST2 that they really went to town with the dulling spray, because their bluescreen setup couldn't cope with shiny surfaces at all. For ST3 they used yellow light on the model and filtered it out later in an attempt to deal with the blue spill problem, but the Enterprise still looked battleship grey rather than polished t(r)itanium. It will always amaze me that a key element behind the decision to blow up the Enterprise in ST3 is because the ILM crew hated working with the giant eight-foot model that Magicam built for The Motion Picture. (And Ken Ralston felt that Probert's refit design was ugly. How anyone can think that ... I don't know.)
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Feb 16, 2013 00:43
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penismightier posted:I think that Enterprise is needlessly complicated too, but come on, they shot the hell out of that film. I disagree. Okay it looked nice. But with modern special effects I'd expect nothing less. I just feel that they dont make films like they used to & that it too easy to be hyper kinetic rather than restrained.
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Feb 16, 2013 01:04
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DocHorror posted:I disagree. Okay it looked nice. But with modern special effects I'd expect nothing less. I just feel that they dont make films like they used to & that it too easy to be hyper kinetic rather than restrained. Modern special effects have very little to do with the incredible framing and lighting in that film. Those shots of ships upside down and ships at long long distances do more to show the vastness and weirdness of space than just about anything else in the series since Wise took a crack at it. Modern special effects with no artistry gives you First Contact. Beautiful, evocative, and thematically consistent framing gives you Star Trek 2009. Who gives a poo poo if they make films like they used to? They shouldn't. Every era's films should look different.
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Feb 16, 2013 01:07
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I know this might not be much more than a "Lens Flare!" joke, but ... from just the thumbnail, could you even tell this was not from JJTrek, but from TMP?
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Feb 16, 2013 01:23
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