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Charliegrs posted:Well they probably have to fly pretty low and slow in order for them to get their bombs to fall somewhat on target. They don't have precision guided bombs like the US does, so they can't fly too high and still hit whatever it is they are trying to hit. All that low flying makes them easier to shoot down though. Yea in the days before precision bombs we all lost a bunch of bombers to heavy machine guns, if you want accurate hits you have to go slow and at a lower distance than others, you're not exactly a sitting duck but you have better odds than anyone else of getting blasted by some rear end in a top hat with a big machine gun.
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Feb 14, 2013 21:07
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When we're talking about "heavy machine-guns" do we mean truck mounted 50 cals or do the rebels have the quad mounted heavy guns like ZSU-23s?
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Feb 14, 2013 21:13
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Intel5 posted:The story on Al Jazeera says that the jets were downed by heavy machine gun fire, it makes me think that the pilots were being dumb for the rebels to manage two in a row like that. Any video of this up? News are seldom reliable sources for technical details. BMP can become a tank or ZU-23/2 a heavy machinegun. While the tactical difference between a 23mm high rate of fire gun and a 12.7mm machinegun is staggering, for most of the intended audience it's quite irrelevant - like a restaurant putting a whale dish on the fish menu. Tatum Girlparts posted:Yea in the days before precision bombs we all lost a bunch of bombers to heavy machine guns, if you want accurate hits you have to go slow and at a lower distance than others, you're not exactly a sitting duck but you have better odds than anyone else of getting blasted by some rear end in a top hat with a big machine gun. Machineguns were becoming too slow (rate of fire and muzzle velocity) and short ranged to be effective even against late WW2 Jabos, let alone jet fighters. The reaction time for a ground crew was so short that you were unlikely to do much and even if you got lucky, a bullet with no explosive filler will likely just pass harmlessly through. Lowering speed doesn't really increase bombing accuracy. It may help with reaction time so that you have more time to pick a target but with more speed you can lob a bomb from further away, even from behind the horizon if you know what you're doing. Low speed passes only make sense if you try to strafe the target.
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Feb 14, 2013 21:38
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Dusseldorf posted:When we're talking about "heavy machine-guns" do we mean truck mounted 50 cals or do the rebels have the quad mounted heavy guns like ZSU-23s? They've got ZU-23-2s mounted on trucks, and I saw a video of a working Shilka in the area as well.
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Feb 14, 2013 21:43
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Oh my, Finland! http://yle.fi/uutiset/customs_investigate_military_shipment_to_syria_via_finland/6497594 yle.fi posted:Customs officials are conducting a cross-border investigation into an apparent attempt to export military equipment to Syria through Finland without government permission. This makes me question how much stuff is getting through undetected.
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Feb 15, 2013 17:43
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It was probably a Zeus. I doubt a pair of .50's took down a jet unless the pilot was extremely incompetent.
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Feb 15, 2013 18:08
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Rosoboronexport (Russian state arms exporter) representative denied knowing anything about any tank spares and speculated that they might be ordinary civilian truck spares mistaken as tank parts. A little unlikely (T-72 spares and their product codes probably are well known by the inspectors to a spark plug), although mistakes do happen: eg. in December 2011 a shipment of Patriot missiles sold by Germany to South Korea was impounded in a Finnish harbour due to a missing transit permit but also because they were listed as 'rockets' and when a Finnish customs official translated this he went with 'fireworks' due to the time of year. Of course the missiles were found in an inspection and the Customs went crazy for a while.
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Feb 15, 2013 19:14
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Brown Moses posted:Here's one of the jets as it was being shot down Looks like it was an Su-22 or a MiG-21 before it blew itself to bits on impact. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Feb 15, 2013 |
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Feb 15, 2013 20:12
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Nenonen posted:Rosoboronexport (Russian state arms exporter) representative denied knowing anything about any tank spares and speculated that they might be ordinary civilian truck spares mistaken as tank parts. A little unlikely (T-72 spares and their product codes probably are well known by the inspectors to a spark plug), although mistakes do happen: I'd probably poo poo bricks too if I pried open a crate expecting bottle rockets and found a Patriot missile.
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Feb 15, 2013 20:17
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Looks like it was an Su-22 or a MiG-21 before it blew itself to bits on impact. Here's a compilation video of the whole thing, including a MANPADS being used to down it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXxAk6i1qLU
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Feb 15, 2013 20:30
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I always worry about the pilots in these videos and hope they ejected.
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Feb 15, 2013 20:32
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Brown Moses posted:Here's a compilation video of the whole thing, including a MANPADS being used to down it Ah, I was right. Definitely an Su-22. You can tell by the wing shape and the fact that the landing gear is attached to the wing (you can see that detail in the footage of the burning wreckage). Looks like Abbas is still saving his more advanced fighters and attack jets (MiG-23s and 29s and Su-24s) for Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Feb 15, 2013 |
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Feb 15, 2013 20:50
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Brown Moses posted:Here's a compilation video of the whole thing, including a MANPADS being used to down it Those MANPADS are probably keeping a few CIA analysts up all night peering over old Russian inventory lists and counting on their fingers.
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Feb 15, 2013 20:59
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If a few scrawny rebels in the arse end of nowhere have the use of MANPADs, that's absolutely terrifying. It means anyone can obtain them and use them to down commercial airliners. There's no way they are fully secured and there's very likely going to be a few missing in the hands of those who want to use them for sinister agendas. This is a massive nightmare. Wouldn't wanna be those CIA analysts right now.
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Feb 15, 2013 21:30
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Especially when the regime falls, having access to even more military bases will essentially make them the most well-armed Islamist group in the region, definitely could be proliferation back to Iraq, or any other countries, really.
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Feb 15, 2013 21:34
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Baronjutter posted:I always worry about the pilots in these videos and hope they ejected. Seriously? That's the last thing I think about.
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Feb 15, 2013 22:09
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And here's my blog post on the first sighting of foreign made MANPADS in Syria, but can you guess where they came from?
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Feb 15, 2013 22:38
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Baronjutter posted:I always worry about the pilots in these videos and hope they ejected. I imagine most of them are tring to stay in their jet as long as possible (as long as it can be steered) in the hope of getting closer to their home base or regime-controlled areeas...because I'm very sure the rebels won't be treating surviving pilots (who bombed them and the homes of their families for months) very gently.
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Feb 15, 2013 22:38
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Brown Moses posted:And here's my blog post on the first sighting of foreign made MANPADS in Syria, but can you guess where they came from? Interesting find. Given that list of users, my money is on Pakistan, possibly via Afghanistan. There are surely enough corrupt/"freelance" Afghan and Pakistani military officers to source a shipment of MANPADS, no?
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Feb 15, 2013 22:44
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During my tracking of these new foreign weapons I came across a battle being fought at Al-Sahoah air defence base in Daraa where these weapons appeared in abundance. Whats interesting about that battle is they've now won it and got their hands on tanks, BMPs, heavy artillery and various air defence guns. The FSA in that region has been pretty poorly equipped with regards to those types of weapons so this will be a massive boon to them, and there's more and more attacks like this happening across Daraa, with these new weapons appearing all over the place. What is then very interesting is how these weapons have also made their way to Damascus, up the road from Daraa, and it's likely these heavy weapons will allow the opposition to bring more pressure on Damascus. Hopefully in the next few days you might see my name in a rather well known publication with regards to these weapons.
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Feb 15, 2013 22:56
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Brown Moses posted:During my tracking of these new foreign weapons I came across a battle being fought at Al-Sahoah air defence base in Daraa where these weapons appeared in abundance. Whats interesting about that battle is they've now won it and got their hands on tanks, BMPs, heavy artillery and various air defence guns. The FSA in that region has been pretty poorly equipped with regards to those types of weapons so this will be a massive boon to them, and there's more and more attacks like this happening across Daraa, with these new weapons appearing all over the place. What is then very interesting is how these weapons have also made their way to Damascus, up the road from Daraa, and it's likely these heavy weapons will allow the opposition to bring more pressure on Damascus. Infowars.com? In any case things in Bahrain are boiling again following several killings of protesters and follow up killings of police. Obviously neither the FCC states nor the Western powers are interested in seeing regime change, but with two years of Troubles so far exactly what end game are they hoping for, that it will all just stop all of a sudden?
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Feb 16, 2013 00:16
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Is there a good guide of the various factions in the opposition in Syria? It would be very appreciated.
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Feb 16, 2013 10:42
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Brown Moses posted:And here's my blog post on the first sighting of foreign made MANPADS in Syria, but can you guess where they came from? That's a pretty decent work-around for the proliferation issue - give the rebels weapons like Yugo guns and Chinese MANPADs that would be extra difficult to get reloads or spare parts for in the region, as opposed to universal Soviet equipment. Also means the rebels have to come back to you for more once they've used up their initial supply.
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Feb 16, 2013 16:01
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Is there a real reason to be paranoid about Saudi and Qatari groups in Syria? If both of those regimes cooperate with the US, why wouldn't Al-Nusra?
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Feb 16, 2013 16:05
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The X-man cometh posted:Is there a real reason to be paranoid about Saudi and Qatari groups in Syria? If both of those regimes cooperate with the US, why wouldn't Al-Nusra? Just because Saudi and Qatar work with us on some things doesn't mean they'll go lock step with us on every policy topic, especially on something like Syria where we don't have boots on the ground or even much of a diplomatic presence. Plus who's to say exactly how much control the Gulf States have over there backed factions in Syria, or even if they did have strong control whether that would persist after the fall of the Assad regime.
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Feb 16, 2013 17:54
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Terrifying Effigies posted:That's a pretty decent work-around for the proliferation issue - give the rebels weapons like Yugo guns and Chinese MANPADs that would be extra difficult to get reloads or spare parts for in the region, as opposed to universal Soviet equipment. Also means the rebels have to come back to you for more once they've used up their initial supply. That might stop "proliferation", but you're still giving MANPADS to people you may or may not truly know that much about. When even one of those things can cause a nasty international incident you really don't want to play fast and loose.
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Feb 16, 2013 17:55
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The X-man cometh posted:Is there a real reason to be paranoid about Saudi and Qatari groups in Syria? If both of those regimes cooperate with the US, why wouldn't Al-Nusra? You forget this is also the Saudi and Qatari version of flypaper strategy: they export these extremist groups so they don't have to deal with them.
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Feb 16, 2013 17:55
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Brown Moses posted:During my tracking of these new foreign weapons I came across a battle being fought at Al-Sahoah air defence base in Daraa where these weapons appeared in abundance. Whats interesting about that battle is they've now won it and got their hands on tanks, BMPs, heavy artillery and various air defence guns. The FSA in that region has been pretty poorly equipped with regards to those types of weapons so this will be a massive boon to them, and there's more and more attacks like this happening across Daraa, with these new weapons appearing all over the place. What is then very interesting is how these weapons have also made their way to Damascus, up the road from Daraa, and it's likely these heavy weapons will allow the opposition to bring more pressure on Damascus. So despite any reinforcement Damascus is receiving under the table, the odds are still heavily in the FSA's favor?
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Feb 16, 2013 18:14
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CommieGIR posted:So despite any reinforcement Damascus is receiving under the table, the odds are still heavily in the FSA's favor? I think it's not a matter of whether or not Assad will lose, but how long it will take. The problem is, if it takes a long time there might not be much left of Syria when it's all over. Here's a video of the opposition launching a couple of Grad missiles from a DIY launcher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJx8aaLAI2A
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Feb 16, 2013 22:05
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Terrifying Effigies posted:That's a pretty decent work-around for the proliferation issue - give the rebels weapons like Yugo guns and Chinese MANPADs that would be extra difficult to get reloads or spare parts for in the region, as opposed to universal Soviet equipment. Also means the rebels have to come back to you for more once they've used up their initial supply. Well, with regards to my investigation into these foreign weapons... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7miRCLeFSJo&t=46s
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Feb 16, 2013 22:53
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Obviously Brown Moses is CIA/NSA/NATO/MI6 and his 'vacation' to Turkey was to sell crates of arms to the Rebels - his journalism is an elaborate confession. 
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Feb 16, 2013 22:58
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McDowell posted:Obviously Brown Moses is CIA/NSA/NATO/MI6 and his 'vacation' to Turkey was to sell crates of arms to the Rebels - his journalism is an elaborate confession. What, nothing about Mossad? 
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Feb 16, 2013 23:23
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I've found a new bomb in Syria, this time a high explosive incendiary bomb. And in this video we have another example of why it's useful to have infantry support when you are in a tank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yck3EZeyOD0 Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Feb 17, 2013 |
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Feb 17, 2013 00:06
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Gen. Ripper posted:What, nothing about Mossad? Obviously McDowell is a Mossad operative trying to distract us from the Zionist regime's plans to destroy Syria - his diversion is an elaborate confession.
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Feb 17, 2013 00:26
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Gen. Ripper posted:What, nothing about Mossad? That goes without saying; 100% of the world's population is a Mossad sleeper agent. I'm an agent, you're an agent, BM is an agent. Public Mossad agents have the deepest cover of all. 
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Feb 17, 2013 00:52
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Brown Moses posted:And here's my blog post on the first sighting of foreign made MANPADS in Syria, but can you guess where they came from? Would it be hard to believe that the Syrian regime would some have chinese made FN-6 manpads? It's not like we know every weapon Syria had. And China has a long history of selling weapons to middle eastern dictatorships. That doesn't mean that these missiles were sold to some other country and somehow found their way into Syria as others have suggested. But I just think the most likely scenario is they were looted from one of the airbases that the rebels have captured.
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Feb 17, 2013 01:15
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A lot of commentry on Twitter (not that we should necessarily trust what is said on twitter, particuarly as a lot is just people - mostly outside Syria - repeating each other, but still...) that Hezbollah has launched a large offensive on FSA held Homs countryside. Whether that is true or not, Homs does seem to be the one area that the Syrian army is advancing in. @samersniper , an activist in Homs, has become quite despondent in the last few days. 2 hrs ago samer @samersniper posted:
Feb 14 samer @samersniper posted:
Feb 13 samer @samersniper posted:
mediadave fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 17, 2013 |
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Feb 17, 2013 03:07
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Brown Moses posted:And in this video we have another example of why it's useful to have infantry support when you are in a tank I can't even see what they did to it. All I know is that the tank crew abandoned the tank and probably got shot and some fire. Maybe they thought the rebels were planting explosives and panicked.
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Feb 17, 2013 03:09
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Young Freud posted:I can't even see what they did to it. All I know is that the tank crew abandoned the tank and probably got shot and some fire. Maybe they thought the rebels were planting explosives and panicked. Neither does the tank attempt to blow them away or drive off.
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Feb 17, 2013 03:58
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Missionaries arrested in Libya Probably doesn't mean much, but I can't imagine the  AL-QAEDA TAKING OVER crowd will let this go for at least 3 weeks.
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Feb 17, 2013 07:15
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