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I'm appalled by the lack of BSG mentions in this thread when it comes to decently written women in Scifi.
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Feb 21, 2013 17:43
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| # ? May 16, 2024 23:49 |
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ImpAtom posted:There's a very real argument to make about the Firefly characters and every other one you mentioned there is from the 90s or earlier. There's a very real argument to make about any female character in anything. As long as there's disagreement as to how to best portray a traditionally underrepresented or poorly represented group there will be arguments. But on the main topic, female Mudd is a good idea. There's definitely a lack of good female sleazebag con artists in the genre, as opposed to femme fatale types.
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Feb 21, 2013 17:46
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CPFortest posted:I'm appalled by the lack of BSG mentions in this thread when it comes to decently written women in Scifi. Hell yeah, Roslin, Starbuck, Boomer. Just as I was saying, plenty of other examples out there. You could probably count Lost and Alias, too. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Feb 21, 2013 |
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Feb 21, 2013 17:47
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Maxwell Lord posted:But on the main topic, female Mudd is a good idea. There's definitely a lack of good female sleazebag con artists in the genre, as opposed to femme fatale types. I'd be great if this is what she turned out to be.
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Feb 21, 2013 18:02
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Aatrek posted:I'd be great if this is what she turned out to be. They actually bear a striking resemblance. Although, in the comic she appears to be Bajoran. The things that are intriguing me most are the small bits sprinkled here and there. I have no problem with them explaining April's Enterprise since--as many more pedantic fans have pointed out--it matches the years in the Prime Timeline for the original Enterprise's launch and subsequent handover to Pike. On the other hand, April's second in command is named Alex Marcus which is either just an Easter egg or the Marcus family plays a role in the events of the movie. It seems like an odd coincidence that both characters would play quasi-essential roles in the separate stories. There's also the implication that Mudd is supplying April while a separate entity is supplying the hostile aliens. Orci's in record saying this doesn't necessarily tie directly into the movie the way the first Countdown series did. So, maybe this is all clutching at straws. Also, I don't know the rules for spoiler tags here so sorry for the over or under-use.
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Feb 21, 2013 18:16
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Cingulate posted:Question to the people who read the comics last time (before 2009's Trek), and are reading the comics this time: do you think they make the movie more enjoyable, or perhaps less? I enjoyed the Countdown comics immensely, and I thought it made the portion of the movie before Kirk meets up with TOS Spock make much more sense. Also, a lot of the complaints about "why does Nero's ship look like that" and "what's his motivation" are covered in the comics. Edit: The movie does have failings on those complaints in that you shouldn't have to read a short story before you go see a movie for it to make sense. CommanderApaul fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Feb 21, 2013 |
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Feb 21, 2013 18:23
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Yes, but fundamentally, most people, including me, aren't watching movies to evaluate them, but to enjoy them, so you just convinced me to get the comics 
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Feb 21, 2013 18:39
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The last movie was a bit of a special circumstance. The writers strike made it so certain things couldn't be added into the movie once it became apparent the movie wasn't making them clear already. They were in the comics already, which means you could find out, but they just couldn't write new scenes to help. So the comics filled in those gaps instead. This time they can fill in whatever gaps they need to, so I don't see the comics as being a necessary. They can still be fun and supplement the movies, though.
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Feb 21, 2013 18:47
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Oh, I was just afraid they'd be detrimental to the enjoyment of the movie due to, I don't know, spoilering, or adding a bunch of unnecessary background that would only slow stuff down.
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Feb 21, 2013 18:53
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Cingulate posted:Oh, I was just afraid they'd be detrimental to the enjoyment of the movie due to, I don't know, spoilering, or adding a bunch of unnecessary background that would only slow stuff down. For Star Trek 09 they definitely helped. Some parts were a little insane, but I'm glad I read them. I'll probably read these new ones at some point before the movie comes out, too.
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Feb 21, 2013 18:58
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thrawn527 posted:For Star Trek 09 they definitely helped. Some parts were a little insane, but I'm glad I read them. I'll probably read these new ones at some point before the movie comes out, too. But here's the question: would reading the comics enhance or distract from the initial viewing of the film? If I read the Countdown comics for Trek 09, I'd have been a bit perplexed at the ignored history the movie just glosses over. If I hadn't read Countdown (my case), I was engaged with the story/backstory the movie sets up and not distracted by it not lining up exactly with what some comic (which may or may not have had input by the people making the movie) said. I get that the comics apparently were an end-run around the Writers Strike but part of me wonders if they do more to distract from what the filmmakers are trying to tell/show than add to the film. Thwomp fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Feb 21, 2013 |
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Feb 21, 2013 19:34
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Spaceman Future! posted:That was the most bizarre thing, I thought maybe he was already dead when I re watched it not too long ago but nope, later on he dies in the med bay. Meaning Scotty took his dying crewman to the bridge to.. bleed on the carpet.
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Feb 21, 2013 19:42
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Thwomp posted:But here's the question: would reading the comics enhance or distract from the initial viewing of the film?
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Feb 21, 2013 19:47
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:It lets you talk about sensitive topics without explicitly talking about them, like have moral quandries that seem really weird and fantastic but are really the same kinds of thing we run into in real life, like racism. There's plenty of good episodes of Trek (and many bad ones) that try to talk about something contemporary by making it In Space with Foreheads. I wondered, is there actually anything that makes it better to do that stuff in space, than just talking about right here on earth? It seems that Scifi allows us to slightly change the perspective on a familiar, relevant topic, thereby optimally making it possible to see aspects of it more clearly, in a new light, without some of the biases keeping us stuck with our current biases. For example, the Enterprise episode where they meet a species with 3 genders, or the DS9 episode with the undying warfarers.
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Feb 21, 2013 21:15
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Thwomp posted:But here's the question: would reading the comics enhance or distract from the initial viewing of the film? I'm not a critical film viewer by a long shot, so YMMV, but I didn't find myself noticing any ignored backstory, but just viewing the movie in light of the backstory I already knew. If fact, it made it rather strange coming into the Trek09 thread after watching and reading some of the comments about the failings of the movie regarding backstory and all the "why?" questions until I realized that I was mentally filling things into the movie from the comics without realizing it.
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Feb 21, 2013 21:47
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Great_Gerbil posted:They actually bear a striking resemblance. Although, in the comic she appears to be Bajoran. It's already been confirmed that Alice Eve is playing Carol Marcus. Also making Mudd a Bajroan, is a nice touch to show us that in this universe things are really really different from old Star Trek canon.
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Feb 22, 2013 00:44
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Hasters posted:It's already been confirmed that Alice Eve is playing Carol Marcus. Which is why I think it's too much of a coincidence.
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Feb 22, 2013 01:57
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CPFortest posted:I'm appalled by the lack of BSG mentions in this thread when it comes to decently written women in Scifi. I was going to mention BSG, but by the time I got around to it, it looked like that conversation had already come and gone. 
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Feb 22, 2013 15:39
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Great_Gerbil posted:Which is why I think it's too much of a coincidence. So a prequel comic has a character from the movie is a coincidence?
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Feb 22, 2013 15:46
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Great_Gerbil posted:Which is why I think it's too much of a coincidence. Yeah but this would be the first time that Kirk and Marcus get together, which makes sense if you're looking for a canonical love interest for Kirk's early career.
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Feb 22, 2013 15:49
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Alchenar posted:Yeah but this would be the first time that Kirk and Marcus get together, which makes sense if you're looking for a canonical love interest for Kirk's early career. Ughhhh.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:02
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Alchenar posted:Yeah but this would be the first time that Kirk and Marcus get together, which makes sense if you're looking for a canonical love interest for Kirk's early career. I really hope that since she is in it people expect it to be a rehash of Khan, but instead Khan is not even in it, and she ends up siding with the villian.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:04
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api call girl posted:Ughhhh. Yeah I know, but if you were looking for a name for a love interest which is a reference to old-trek but which also gives you complete freedom to tell your story without anyone complaining you've changed something, that's the name I'd go for.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:38
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I have no idea why Abrams is even bothering with canonicity/call-backs so much. The TNG films didn't do that to this degree at all, neither did the TOS films (minus Khan), and he's doing a reboot, after all. I mean, it's not a bad thing, so far, it's working (Scotty killed Porthos!), but I don't get the motivation.
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Feb 22, 2013 18:04
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Cingulate posted:Question to the people who read the comics last time (before 2009's Trek), and are reading the comics this time: do you think they make the movie more enjoyable, or perhaps less? I read the comics last time and I think they made me enjoy the movie more on first viewing, since you don't have to wait until Spock's exposition-meld to understand what's happening. When I first saw '09, though, I did feel like I missed out a little just by knowing Nimoy was in the film at all; the older woman in the row ahead of me did a genuine, audible gasp when he first turned around. It was so cool.
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Feb 22, 2013 18:44
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Cingulate posted:I have no idea why Abrams is even bothering with canonicity/call-backs so much. The TNG films didn't do that to this degree at all, neither did the TOS films (minus Khan), and he's doing a reboot, after all.  How is killing off Kirk not a major call back?
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Feb 22, 2013 18:44
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Generations is a half-TNG, half-TOS movie in my mind. Also, it's not a call-back to series specific stuff, it's movie Kirk they're reviving and killing.
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Feb 22, 2013 18:53
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The TNG films don't exist. I don't care what anyone says.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:54
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I said come in! posted:The TNG films don't exist. I don't care what anyone says. Oh, they exist. They're just really bad.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:55
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Professor Clumsy posted:Oh, they exist. They're just really bad. They aren't even really TNG movies at all when you get down to it. The characters are completely different from how they are on the show. It's like a reboot of TNG, using all of the same actors, but completely rewriting their personalities. It's the weirdest reboot ever.
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Feb 22, 2013 20:00
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bobkatt013 posted:So a prequel comic has a character from the movie is a coincidence? I was referring to April's first officer, Alex Marcus referenced in the comic.
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Feb 22, 2013 20:03
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Cingulate posted:I have no idea why Abrams is even bothering with canonicity/call-backs so much. The TNG films didn't do that to this degree at all, neither did the TOS films (minus Khan), and he's doing a reboot, after all.
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Feb 22, 2013 20:43
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Great_Gerbil posted:So, returning to the upcoming movie. This gives a whole new context to Mudd's women... 
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Feb 22, 2013 21:27
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Ash1138 posted:Because it's fun? It's also the same galaxy, more or less. If the TOS crew still somehow manages to end up on the Enterprise, why is it so far-fetched that they encounter other familiar characters that are also running around? Their fates may just be entwined like that, but the alternate timeline can mean different personalities and/or circumstances. It may be the same universe but the inclusion of the same crew was more of a conceit than some nod to destiny or whatever. Even after the destruction of the Kelvin things would have turned out roughly the same given that not even a full generation had passed the ripple effect of children, grandchildren, etc wouldn't have been as noticeable. But, the changes didn't stop there, an entire planet was wiped out, a planet that was home to one of the most influential Federation species. That is going to have a hell of an impact, attitudes about necessary force and militarization would be affected significantly as would negotiation with non Federation threats. With a weaker, or much more aggressive, Starfleet people that may have been tolerated as rogue elements before may be wiped out, standoffs with Romulan and Klingon fleets would have the potential to become much more bloody affairs. Some big loving ripples on that pond now, the chance of most influential characters popping up again gets pretty screwy then.
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Feb 23, 2013 04:47
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AlternateAccount posted:This gives a whole new context to Mudd's women... I hope so, it's about time the franchise made good on it's faux progressivism.
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Feb 23, 2013 05:42
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Supercar Gautier posted:Is it canon that Kirk was always a fan of the Beastie Boys, or is that only an element of the new timeline? Also, are the Star Trek references in Beastie Boys songs replaced with references to some other show? If so, what show? In the only episode of Smallville I've ever seen, Clark Kent drives somewhere while listening to the radio. He visibly rocks out to a song placed into the episode for cross-platform marketing. The song mentions Superman and Lois Lane by name repeatedly, and young Superman reacts not at all. I hope that Spock listens to "Interplanetary" in the next one.
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Feb 24, 2013 00:20
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Jack Gladney posted:In the only episode of Smallville I've ever seen, Clark Kent drives somewhere while listening to the radio. He visibly rocks out to a song placed into the episode for cross-platform marketing. The song mentions Superman and Lois Lane by name repeatedly, and young Superman reacts not at all. I think they can easily blame that on Superboy Prime punching reality repeatedly.
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Feb 24, 2013 00:31
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Hasters posted:I hope so, it's about time the franchise made good on it's faux progressivism. It's interesting that Doctor Who ended up beating it to the punch on LBGT inclusion.
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Feb 24, 2013 01:36
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Hasters posted:I hope so, it's about time the franchise made good on it's faux progressivism. What a comically ignorant thing to say. E: unless your only exposure was Voyager/Enterprise/JJtrek, then I'd totally see where you're coming from. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Feb 24, 2013 |
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Feb 24, 2013 02:44
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Showing a white guy, even if he's an alien, in a romantic relationship with a black woman is pretty progressive for Hollywood.
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Feb 24, 2013 03:00
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