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loquacius posted:Awww, they're havin' a see party. Hm. That reminds me. Did Dave know Terezi's eyes were healed? This wouldn't be the first time people have kept things from Karkat. Hussie often likes to have all the other characters already know a dramatic revelation once it's given to the audience and the character we were following at the time, if only to get everyone up to speed quickly.
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Mar 18, 2013 18:36
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Just a couple of eagle-eyed bros peepin poo poo up into the wee hours.
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I honestly thought that the hood thing was just a coincidence and everybody was being paranoid. Shows what I know. Terezi needs to stop hatedating Gamzee. She's too cool to serve Lord English. 
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Mar 18, 2013 18:37
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Line Feed posted:I honestly thought that the hood thing was just a coincidence and everybody was being paranoid. Shows what I know. Come on now, everyone needs to metaphorically fall from grace at least once in their life. At least. 
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Mar 18, 2013 20:00
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I can't help but see this tie into karkat's being "alone" and having Dave call hi a friend. Possibly resulting in the Makeout Meteor getting into shape to deal with the fallout from Jade/Jane takeover.
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Mar 18, 2013 20:10
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Toclafane posted:I need to unload my current avatar since I am not actually a brony, and I am sort of thinking the new one should be Sollux slowly falling down the companionway. Unless someone already has dibs on this work of art, that is. Roger Explosion posted:Great. My eyes just did a weird optical-illusion thing and saw Terezi's lips as a gawking mouth and now I can't unsee her as a porpoise. 
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Mar 18, 2013 20:20
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Hahahaha oh my god, from since it updated to today I thought that this was a dumb update and what was the point??? Terezi and Karkat staring at each other in shock? Terezi sure looks beat up. Yeah. Only now, reading the thread, did I actually realize Terezi's eyes got healed.
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Mar 18, 2013 22:29
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Line Feed posted:Terezi needs to stop hatedating Gamzee. She's too cool to serve Lord English. We're assuming that they're both the same Gamzee.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:24
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J.theYellow posted:We're assuming that they're both the same Gamzee.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:37
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Mar 18, 2013 23:42
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Hah, kinda beaten I guess.  
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Mar 18, 2013 23:59
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Tecman posted:Hah, kinda beaten I guess. Yours probably took more effort, though. 
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Mar 19, 2013 00:15
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Calling it now, the next update is a cut-away to a strung-out Rose.
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Mar 19, 2013 00:17
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I read this update when it went up and I've only just now realised that Terezi can see again.
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Mar 19, 2013 00:30
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J.theYellow posted:We're assuming that they're both the same Gamzee. Out of all of the ridiculous metaphysical rules that Homestuck operates by I think the one thing we can be pretty certain of is that there is exactly one Gamzee in existence, across all realities.
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Mar 19, 2013 01:28
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DaveKap posted:The hilarity of that specific scene is, unfortunately, too many frames to capture accurately in an avatar. Unless someone wants to prove otherwise. ahahaha how HIGH do you even have to be to DO something like that
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Mar 19, 2013 01:33
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Thundarr posted:Out of all of the ridiculous metaphysical rules that Homestuck operates by I think the one thing we can be pretty certain of is that there is exactly one Gamzee in existence, across all realities. Point of order: nobody knows what happened to his dreamself.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:09
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Tunicate posted:Point of order: nobody knows what happened to his dreamself.
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Mar 19, 2013 02:20
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lotus circle posted:It was assumingly killed like every other dreamself by Bec Noir. Unless he did actually go God Tier, which if that happened the dreamself just fused with the living self. One of the theories at the time (and probably too crazy to be real, but whatever) was that, just as Roxy's dreamself went wandering into the void when she got drunk, Gamzee's dreamself could have wandered off while he was constantly high and thereby survive the rampage of Jack Noir.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:07
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lotus circle posted:It was assumingly killed like every other dreamself by Bec Noir. Unless he did actually go God Tier, which if that happened the dreamself just fused with the living self. Didn't happen onscreen, unlike everyone else, and Hussie said he hasn't seen any timeline where Gamzee dies. I figure that we've been left hanging long enough for it to be revealed formally sometime down the line.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:10
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So does this mean she has double vision now, from smelling and seeing at the same time? That must cause such headaches...
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Mar 19, 2013 03:33
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Hence the hood, one presumes.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:34
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Except that there being no Gamzees dead makes no sense, as one of the hallmarks of a failed timeline are that everyone dies, hence why the Furthest Ring is full of dead trolls, while having few dead kids, due to Daves pro timeline management. Therefore, all the Gamzees from the multiple failed troll timelines escaped Paradox Justice by fleeing into the Furthest Ring. Therefore, I totally call there being a multi-timeline Gathering of the Juggalos, consisting entirely of Gamzees.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:38
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Wapole Languray posted:Except that there being no Gamzees dead makes no sense, as one of the hallmarks of a failed timeline are that everyone dies, hence why the Furthest Ring is full of dead trolls, while having few dead kids, due to Daves pro timeline management. Therefore, all the Gamzees from the multiple failed troll timelines escaped Paradox Justice by fleeing into the Furthest Ring. Therefore, I totally call there being a multi-timeline Gathering of the Juggalos, consisting entirely of Gamzees. If I remember correctly, didn't in-comic Hussie tell Caliborn that he's never seen a dead Gamzee?
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Mar 19, 2013 03:42
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Beta timelines don't equate to everyone dead. It just often works out that way. A beta timeline is one that unravels and ceases to exist once it's relevance to the alpha has passed. Anyone still alive at the time also ceases to exist and presumably doesn't get a deadself. Dead beta selves are possible to find in the far rim because it exists outside chronological time, and so any dead beta players that become ghosts escape the beta-timeline's dissolution. It's not explicitly stated in comic, but it seems pretty straightforward from the context we've been given.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:49
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I'm guessing you're talking about this part from the first series of Caliborn Intermissions.quote:You know how it is with clowns. But even if Gamzee does stay alive in other timelines, it only means that he is trapped in doomed timelines where he lives. Whether or not dreamselves count is a whole different thing because they are considered spare bodies and only seem to gain a separate consciousness after dying (see Jadesprite). I'm still thinking that Gamzee just can't die because he's already been cursed with immortality by Lord English, much like Handmaid and possibly HIC.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:53
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Wapole Languray posted:Except that there being no Gamzees dead makes no sense, as one of the hallmarks of a failed timeline are that everyone dies, hence why the Furthest Ring is full of dead trolls, while having few dead kids, due to Daves pro timeline management. Therefore, all the Gamzees from the multiple failed troll timelines escaped Paradox Justice by fleeing into the Furthest Ring. Therefore, I totally call there being a multi-timeline Gathering of the Juggalos, consisting entirely of Gamzees. Actually, going by BetaTimeline Rose, if you're alive when the Beta Timeline 'ends' (as in, when the time player goes back to fix it), then you don't die, you merge back into the original's subconscious. So if Gamzee was alive in all the beta timelines (like, say, if a bunch of them were where he murdered everyone else), then there'd be no dreambubble beta-timeline Gamzees, just one Gamzee who remembers lots of alternate realities where he killed everyone.
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Mar 19, 2013 04:20
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Bobulus posted:Actually, going by BetaTimeline Rose, if you're alive when the Beta Timeline 'ends' (as in, when the time player goes back to fix it), then you don't die, you merge back into the original's subconscious. So if Gamzee was alive in all the beta timelines (like, say, if a bunch of them were where he murdered everyone else), then there'd be no dreambubble beta-timeline Gamzees, just one Gamzee who remembers lots of alternate realities where he killed everyone. I think there was more prerequisite than just "being alive", otherwise the trolls would have had various memories of their session screwing up. Not EVERY failed timeline could be hallmarked by every single troll dying, in some of them surely they managed to avoid getting consistently murdered by clowns. Rose feels like a special case, still, and it seems like it'd be too convenient for the non-Time players if their failures could be turned around with less tragedy and less beta-self angst. (I specify non-Time players, since I'm not sure a Time player can actually end up in a beta timeline if the alpha is partially a result of them having to fix it themselves, thus they'd be unable to be alive in one when it fades.) Maybe being a certain kind of player and having both your alpha and beta selves asleep is part of the prerequisite, something Gamzee surely could have easily done.
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Mar 19, 2013 04:55
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Doomed Rose went to sleep as her timeline resolved itself and ceased to exist. That seems to be what let her consciousness merge with Alpha Rose's.
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Mar 19, 2013 05:03
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Midnight Raider posted:I think there was more prerequisite than just "being alive", otherwise the trolls would have had various memories of their session screwing up. Not EVERY failed timeline could be hallmarked by every single troll dying, in some of them surely they managed to avoid getting consistently murdered by clowns. I honestly think Hussie may have changed his mind about how Beta timelines work once or twice during the story, and Rose merging with her alpha dreamself is just one of the little leftover inconsistencies. No one else has ever reported getting beta-timeline memories from a failed session. I guess it's possible all the trolls were killed in all their beta timeline sessions (minus Gamzee), meaning the dream bubbles are full of complete sets of dead trolls and Gamzee remembers every beta timeline because he merged with them all?
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Mar 19, 2013 05:03
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It's entirely possible, but if he'd decided to change things up, I do wonder why he brought up the merger back when everyone was greeting Meenah.
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Mar 19, 2013 05:05
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I'm pretty confident, based upon no evidence whatsoever, that all of those beta Gamzees merged with alpha Gamzee either using the same method as Rose or through some other ridiculous clown bullshit. It wouldn't be the most nonsensical thing about him. None of them ever died and he has the supernatural ability to always be where and when he needs(?) to be, to the point where he has literally become the linchpin of the alpha timeline across multiple universes. The Most Important Character in Homestuck wasn't a red herring pointing to Lil Cal off camera in his lap. It really was referring to Gamzee.
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Mar 19, 2013 05:18
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Dolash posted:just one of the little leftover inconsistencies. Like how Jade's dreamself was able to grow a bunch of extra arms.
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Mar 19, 2013 05:23
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Ariong posted:Like how Jade's dreamself was able to grow a bunch of extra arms.
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Mar 19, 2013 05:24
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"WHO 1S TH1S H1D3OUS FR34K ST4R1NG 4T M3"
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Mar 19, 2013 05:46
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Ariong posted:Like how Jade's dreamself was able to grow a bunch of extra arms. Dreamselves being ruled by dream logic and accordingly being kind of different personality-wise is one of the things I really wish Hussie was mindful to stick with, though I can see why he dropped the idea.
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Mar 19, 2013 05:51
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I've tried to rationalize it as the difference between dreaming as a dreamself, and using one as a spare body. Maybe Jade was just extra loopy, by dreaming standards.
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Mar 19, 2013 06:03
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YggiDee posted:I've tried to rationalize it as the difference between dreaming as a dreamself, and using one as a spare body. Maybe Jade was just extra loopy, by dreaming standards. John didn't seem that loopy back when his dreamself was on the battlefield.
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Mar 19, 2013 06:18
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The dreamself mechanics have always been fuzzy and shall we say, dreamlike. You can fanwank it - maybe all of Jade's dream weirdness has something to do with her's being awake so much earlier than everyone else's - but it's mostly just a weakly defined part of the story. Probably at least partially design, to give Andrew some flexibility in how he moves the plot along.
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Mar 19, 2013 06:27
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That bothered me too, and so awhile back I made a dumb theory post on tumblr trying to rationalize it out just for fun. My best guess was that it ties back into a lot of other weird stuff that goes on with dreamselves. Like how some injuries to the real self cross over and some don't. Short of the real self dying, how the dreamself looks seems to match how the character thinks they should look.
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Mar 19, 2013 06:28
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I'm certain characters would act differently when they think they are asleep. A dream self who has not been "awakened" by the death and subsequent replacement of a waking self might also mark the loss of the dream self's abilities such as flight.
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Mar 19, 2013 06:33
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