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Just out of curiosity - the big 4 and the CA program. I've talked to some employees (very briefly, before they were moved on). Their experience with the CA is that certain classes are taught inside the company seperate and are from the CA, yet still accredited to it - it's usually one or two subjects, mostly tax and audit. BDO Kendels in Brisbane has a tax component that is taught over a period of 6-10 months. Out of curiosity, has anyone else ever done this? How different is it compared to doing the CA? I know its still accredited to the CA, but it seems a little odd (to me, anyway) that such a unit would go for a long period of time. Particularly when the CA units are shorter.
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Mar 21, 2013 05:13
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After submitting a lot of resumes with no response I suddenly got an internship starting tomorrow and an externship with an audit firm for a week over summer. I graduate with my bachelor's in a month or so and I really should have had an internship last summer, but I had to take 12 units over that summer because of some prerequisite nonsense. Next semester I'll be teaching two sections of undergrad accounting and working on my master's. Think I'm going to try to get one section of the CPA done before school starts up again as well. After so long feeling like school would never end everything is suddenly happening so fast. It's really cool, if a little nerve wracking. I'm not sure when I'm supposed to find time for sleep while all of this is going on. I'm guessing the answer is probably 'you don't'
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Mar 21, 2013 20:51
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Big 4 Forensics or internal operational research consultant for an international airline? Big 4: great career prospects, super nice offices, salary potential, will get interesting eventually, probably better social life in work, have to do a year of audit first, professional qualification, easy commute. Airline: I get to use my masters degree, reasonable prospects (don't particularly see it transferring to external consulting but the head of strategy started in this job), good offices, not as much salary potential, more interesting work straight away, smaller staff, free/discounted flights after six months, no qualification, really long commute. The difference in the starting base pay is negligible, and both pay more than I need to earn to be happy at my stage of life so short-to-mid-term salary is probably not going to be the deciding factor. It's great to be in this position but I'm really struggling to make a choice.
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Mar 23, 2013 17:20
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I think Big 4's are a little overrated, but working for an airline seems like the surest way to get laid off. Also, screw long commutes. edit: I see in another thread you said 80 minutes each way, definitely big 4.
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Mar 23, 2013 17:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxU6n4pAnrU
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Mar 25, 2013 04:21
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So over the past few years I've read and heard the opinion that big 4 careers are not as good as they used to be. Has anyone in the industry worked through this trend and found it to be true? It seems to me that big 4 has always been about either: A. Sacrificing work/life balance for a few years, getting your CPA, getting valuable experience, and moving on to something with better hours and most likely better pay. or B. Sacrificing work/life balance for a lot longer than a few years, getting your CPA, maybe transfer into a specialty group, maybe make partner if you can cut it, etc. BONUS OPTION: Decide that accounting isn't for you and leave (I totally respect this choice and may make it myself...who knows). Sure, things have changed, but the fundamental reasons that drive people to work at a big 4 don't seem all that different than they were in the past. I always hear people negatively comparing their careers to ibankers or that one kid who sold an app, but I feel like most people who would genuinely do well in accounting would not make it in those fields. I see the big 4 as an opportunity that will open doors and give me plenty of choices to advance my career, and I am happy with that, but it is hard not to get down on my own choices when so many people seem unhappy with theirs. I met up with some alumni for dinner the other week and it turned into a giant existential whinefest about how none of this work matters, the job sucks, I need to get an MBA, why didn't I study a science, and so on. Maybe my tune will change once I am working full time, but some of the daily complaints I hear at my current internship are absolutely ridiculous. Edit: Maybe absolutely ridiculous is the wrong expression...Complaints are understandable, but I feel that most of what I hear could be explained by "I work at a professional job with high expectations" rather than "I work at a public accounting firm and things would be so much better if I <insert anything here>." Mush Mushi fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Apr 6, 2013 |
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Apr 6, 2013 21:06
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Hoops posted:Big 4 Forensics or internal operational research consultant for an international airline? You didn't mention work hours for any of these. Working at the Big 4 is a poo poo hole and it's not an accident that these firms are constantly recruiting to replace their high turnover. The experience you receive there sucks. The work hours are ridiculous year around. Once upon a time, the pay and perks of the Big 4 made up for this, but those perks have been largely cannibalized. Working at an airline isn't the path to riches, but it's the path to not becoming a burnout after your first two years in accounting. My advice: ask the Big 4 guy the yearly expected hours. Then ask the airline what their hours are. Divide your salary for each by the hours for each, and the better deal is going to be pretty drat obvious.
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Apr 6, 2013 23:44
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Mush Mushi posted:It seems to me that big 4 has always been about either: This is pretty much it. It's not a secret that Big 4 life is hard - a ton of working hours stuck in a tight cube with six other people of varying social skill while surrounded by people who hate you because the company is paying you 10x more than them to do their job. Anyone who gets into this field expecting to save lives or bring smiles to children's faces is an idiot. All Big 4 does is allow you to sacrifice your life for the next 2-3 years in order to sex up your resume. I got into accounting so I could make a stable, steady paycheck - I'll do whatever brings me joy and meaning after work. I probably have a much less angry/jaded view of public than most because of my career path. I was in industry for five years, THEN decided jumped into Big 4 to fast-track things a little bit after seeing "Big 4 Experience required/preferred" on every Manager and higher level position. By that point, I wasn't some staffer that got assigned to grunt work (which you then get stuck with for the rest of your Big 4 career), I was a senior smart enough to volunteer and network my way into the cool stuff I hadn't touched before. Personally - I'm a tax guy that refuses to do tax returns, so I worked my way into a group that handles specialized tax software and working with CFOs on process restructuring. Why? Because no one else knows how to do this stuff, and I'd get amazing high-level contacts with other companies. Big 4 is definitely a shithole, but if you're smart enough to at least wear boots while walking around in it you'll come out looking much better when it's over with. Treat it for what it is, get your experience/resume straight and don't be afraid to make demands once you get sick of doing something - it's cheaper for the Firm to retain you than having to recruit and re-train. As much as I HATE not having a life right now, I do get some comfort in the vast number of recruiter calls/messages I get every other day with very well-paying job offers. The real money from Big 4 isn't what the firm is paying you, it's what your next job will pay you. Patientology fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 00:09
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The real question is, how long do you stay in Big 4?
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Apr 7, 2013 01:53
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At this point I would kill for a Big Four job. I just graduated from Texas State - San Marcos with a Masters of Science in Accounting and Information Technology. The goal of the degree was to get me CPA qualified as well as prepare me for a potential career in IT Audit, but Texas State didn't really give much direction for candidates in the program, so for better or worse I focused on the financial audit career. I interviewed for regular audit for two of the Big Four and Grant Thornton, and by the time I got to the third Big Four audit firm (EY), they told me about the IT audit internship which took me away from the normal interview process. I received an internship offer from EY, but there was only a short window of acceptance before the internship started and the HR rep didn't respond. The HR rep sat on my stuff for over a week and I ended up having the offer withdrawn. I ended up doing an audit internship in San Antonio with a very small firm. It was a great experience but looked like a dead end job market, so I declined the job offer. Fast forward to now, and I haven't been able to get my foot back in the door with the Big Four firms in Dallas or Houston. I'm currently working as an A/R specialist (collections) in Austin, but I am beating down doors looking for a way in to the Big Four with no luck. I have several friends who are staff auditors with the Big Four, some friends and family that know people that used to work for the firms, but no one is able to get me an interview. I've done some small tax work on the side for a licensed CPA, but that is mostly a hobby. I'm exceptionally qualified to do audit: I graduated top of my class, have 5 months audit experience from my internship, tons of leadership and volunteer work with Beta Alpha Psi, tons of spreadsheet accounting experience, over a decade of work experience, and I just started studying for my CPA exam. I feel like if the Big Four internship period passes you by, there isn't a way to get in. Does anyone have any advice for me? What other steps can I take to find a job with the Big Four? CountingWizard fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 04:32
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I'd pressure your friends to really try to get you in touch with someone at the firm. I actually talked to a recruiter from PWC on the phone because of a friend when I wasn't even cpa eligible. It obviously went nowhere, but I'm surprised you're having that hard of a time.
Harry fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 05:24
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I'm doing internship interviews at my school and have five more to go out of like 10 or so. One firm contacted me back and I guess the rest don't want me. I even sent a post interview email out to one of the people I interviewed with but never got a response back. Anyway, I'm shying away from Big 4 and looking at the mid-sized and local guys. Any interview advice? These interviews have mostly been really laid back where the interviewer mostly just talks about their firm and just requires a general introduction out of you so I'm not exactly sure how to make a positive impression.
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Apr 7, 2013 16:23
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Spartan421 posted:I'm doing internship interviews at my school and have five more to go out of like 10 or so. One firm contacted me back and I guess the rest don't want me. I even sent a post interview email out to one of the people I interviewed with but never got a response back. Anyway, I'm shying away from Big 4 and looking at the mid-sized and local guys. Any interview advice? These interviews have mostly been really laid back where the interviewer mostly just talks about their firm and just requires a general introduction out of you so I'm not exactly sure how to make a positive impression. My interview prep process when I was looking for internships went something like this: -Go through my resume and make sure I can talk about each item for a couple minutes. -Google "behavioral interview questions," and compile a list of experiences that I can use to answer a variety of those questions. Take a moment to memorize them if you can, so if you are asked a question, all you have to do is take a moment to decide what story answers the question best. -Have a great answer about why you want to be in accounting/audit/tax/etc. -Try to learn a little bit about the interviewing firm. If there is a certain group that is unique to that firm, mention how interesting that is! (even if it isn't) -Memorize a few questions to ask the interviewer. No questions = a lack of interest in the interviewer's mind. This might sound horrible, but I would always ask a question or two that I already knew the answer to just for the sake of asking a question at the end of my interview. Just be confident, enthusiastic and don't sound like a robot. Even if you don't use any of that stuff, you will be more comfortable because you feel prepared for anything. Don't worry about it too much. I know several people who struck out during on campus interviews. All of them now have jobs after taking the CPA exam and some minimal networking.
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Apr 7, 2013 18:47
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Mush Mushi posted:My interview prep process when I was looking for internships went something like this: I think this is generally solid advice. I only interviewed once a number of years ago (for the firm I'm with now) but it was largely just a conversation, the majority of which had little to do with the position or accounting but seemed more like the Partner was trying to get a sense of my personality. I asked questions about his career and his particular group which I think he liked, and now I've been working in his group for four years. These days he stops by my desk to make fun of my beard...
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Apr 7, 2013 19:20
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Hoops posted:Big 4 Forensics or internal operational research consultant for an international airline? As other posters have said, the big 4 job might not be as attractive as the other job, but you should consider your future. Many companies will not hire accountants for higher level positions if they do not have at least 2 years big 4 experience. It is really good to have on your resume. chupacabraTERROR posted:The real question is, how long do you stay in Big 4? It depends on how high you want your next move to be. I would suggest 2 years at a minimum. The longer you stay and higher up the big 4 ladder you go the better. Pug fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Apr 8, 2013 |
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Apr 8, 2013 17:43
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Cool, thanks for the advice guys.
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Apr 8, 2013 20:28
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Been in audit for about 3 years now, senior level with CPA license (not big four), and these videos are basically my life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Yry3ZXaB0 through episode 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdXWgQsbeHQ&list=PL5846557DCEF377B9 through episode 4 as well These videos are sadly accurate. The work hours and stress are crazy. You have to deal with tons of different clients who simultaneously don't give a poo poo about what you need to finish and bitch about you not being finished, all while the managers/partners/whoever is down your throat about budgets and deadlines while kissing the rear end of whatever client you're on. That being said, you learn a ton (faster than you care to), and get really good at just getting poo poo done and off of your desk. You really learn to be productive fast. For those of you having trouble getting into public accounting: Get your license. Or at least pass the exam, so a firm knows you'll have your license once you hit the experience requirement. If you can put that on your resume it'll move you to the top of the stack. CPA firms need CPAs to put on their RFPs and bids and whatnot, and basically hire kids out of college that are CPA eligible in the hopes that maybe 1 out of 3 to 4 will last a few years and get licensed, so if you're already one of those 1 in 3 to 4 its a lot easier to get in. edit: fixed link vaginite fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Apr 9, 2013 |
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Apr 9, 2013 06:13
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Your first link seems broken.
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Apr 9, 2013 07:14
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Question: what is "public sector internal audit"? I'm in my final year of uni, looking at applying to the big four, but I've left it late and there's not many options left, one of which is the above. From reading the description it doesn't sound too bad, but because it's so late in the application cycle I'm a little leery of the positions which are left. Is there something about this position that's undesirable?
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Apr 9, 2013 14:10
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Teddles posted:Question: what is "public sector internal audit"? I'm in my final year of uni, looking at applying to the big four, but I've left it late and there's not many options left, one of which is the above. From reading the description it doesn't sound too bad, but because it's so late in the application cycle I'm a little leery of the positions which are left. Is there something about this position that's undesirable? You should post the description because that title is so vague it's impossible to give you much of an answer. It sounds like internal audit related to some governmental entity.
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Apr 9, 2013 22:17
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I'm guessing it's internal audit/compliance job of a government agency. Could be anything really.
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Apr 9, 2013 22:19
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gmilo posted:You should post the description because that title is so vague it's impossible to give you much of an answer. It sounds like internal audit related to some governmental entity. This is the job description. TBH fraud investigation sounds pretty interesting, but again I'm pretty leery of anything that's left this late in the cycle.
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Apr 10, 2013 09:26
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Teddles posted:This is the job description. TBH fraud investigation sounds pretty interesting, but again I'm pretty leery of anything that's left this late in the cycle. Looks like basic outsourced internal audit... there isn't anything specifically undesireable about it (my firm has a similar practice) and if you really want some Big4 experience on your resume I say give it a shot. I think it might be left "late in the cycle" because audit and tax are usually the ones everyone knows about that fill up first. Also consulting type stuff like that job typically hire at different times compared to audit/tax.
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May 2, 2013 06:04
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Hi, I am sorry if this is the wrong place and is long-winded, but I just need some career path advice. I graduated from college with a BS in Accounting in May 2011, and got my first "real job" not even 2 months after. I do not have my CPA, and I am not considering trying to get it (probably a big mistake on my part, I know). Before this job I worked at a Kroger for 6 years, and did a few summer internships at the CPA firm where my mom works. The company I work for now is a a small company (5 people in the accounting department) that do the work for a chain of convenience stores, a Papa John's restaurant, a lumber mill, and a spattering of a couple of other companies. All the work I do is focused on the 16 convenience stores. I do the bi-weekly payroll for 80 employees, pay all the payroll taxes and do the returns, help the AR and AP clerks with any problems they might come across and check their work before posting, and to prepare the financial statements before being presented to the owner. One of the partners from the accounting firm my mom works at forwarded my resume to another small company that is one of his clients. They just fired the lady who did all their bookkeeping when they found out she had embezzled about $200,000 from them. He set up an interview, and I went in and interviewed with this company, he also came along on sat in on the interview. They need a ton of help, and it sounds like it is a nightmare. I would be the only accounting person, but I would have the resources to talk to the CPA firm and they would have people there to help me work and get everything cleaned up and in some working order. Also it is a small type company like I am at now where the owner owns about 6 different businesses and I would be keeping the books for all 6 of those companies. My problem is that I do not know if I really want to go to another small company, and I really am not too thrilled about being the only accountant on staff. I do not think I have the experience to do everything from AP, to AR, to preparing the financials, paying all the bills, it just seems like too much, and in the short-term I do not think I would be able to help that much. My parents both say that I am selling myself short and Ted, the partner from where my mom works, would have never set up this interview if he didn't think I would be able to do it. They also said that I would never know what I am capable of and what I want to do unless I take a chance and step out of my comfort zone. So, I guess I just am looking for some advice and any input from someone if they were ever in a similar situation about what I should do. I know I would be making more money if I took this other job, but I just don't know if it is a good fit for me.
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May 23, 2013 01:00
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You'll probably make some mistakes, but you'll probably also have a mentor at the CPA firm who you can call/email with dumb questions, right? If you want to be promoted, I suspect that more responsibility will help, but if you don't even like where you work now... e: there is a career path thread http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3533210
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May 23, 2013 01:35
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I probably just need to figure out what I want to do before I go doing more of the same.
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May 23, 2013 01:45
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coreycoryecorey posted:They need a ton of help, and it sounds like it is a nightmare. I would be the only accounting person Ugh this job sounds absolutely terrible. I can't imagine taking it unless its a super large pay bump
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May 23, 2013 02:41
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coreycoryecorey posted:I would be the only accounting person So they didn't learn their lesson, or they consider a little embezzlement from time to time worth it to only have to pay one accountant.
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May 23, 2013 08:26
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Lemmi Caution posted:So they didn't learn their lesson, or they consider a little embezzlement from time to time worth it to only have to pay one accountant. Sounds like you'll need to inform them as to why 'Seperation of Duties' is more than a cool name for a band.
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May 23, 2013 08:31
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Separation of duties isn't entirely realistic in the business he's describing. Which is why you hire an auditor, and spend maybe 10 minutes looking through the books a week.
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May 23, 2013 16:37
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Harry posted:Separation of duties isn't entirely realistic in the business he's describing. Which is why you hire an auditor, and spend maybe 10 minutes looking through the books a week. Yea, it just isn't possible in the way that company is set up and ran. Right now the CPA firm is doing all their bookkeeping, and trying to clean up the mess the old bookkeeper made. I just don't know if I am up for stepping into that position. My gut is really telling me no, and my position at my current job isn't terrible; I am nearing my two year mark at this company, my only real problem is I am not making as much money as I think I should be. Plus this job offer is in an even more rural area than my current job, and I eventually would like to move out of my parent's house. However, both jobs are in the same area, and the commute from my parent's house is negligible, but I would not want to move to this area.
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May 23, 2013 17:03
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coreycoryecorey posted:Yea, it just isn't possible in the way that company is set up and ran. Right now the CPA firm is doing all their bookkeeping, and trying to clean up the mess the old bookkeeper made. What I took from your previous post is that you already work for a holding company or accounting firm of some sort and part of the company's work is payroll and compilations. I took a job at a small accounting firm with my CPA passed. It's incredibly useful. In four months I landed $15k in pay raises despite my inability to grasp basic concepts like "showing up on time" and "blacula is not an actual word". Your current employers are dumping you on these fuckheads because presumably you've indicated that you're not interested in getting your credential and they don't want to throw you out without some sort of stable salary. The new job you're discussing is absolutely loving terrible unless you're talking about doubling or tripling your wages. A company owner that lets $200k get embezzled is probably not going to listen to a single thing you say because he is an idiot who doesn't like numbers and only responds to loud noises. One of my coworkers has failed her CPA exams repeatedly and it's been detrimental to her. She's been at accounting firms for some 8 years and my employers think she is a joke because she hasn't passed her exams. She has been "laid off" repeatedly." I am an actual joke, and I have not had that issue, and I know I won't - those three stupid letters next to your last name have a powerful psychological impact on clients. Despite whatever misgivings you have, take the exams and pass them. CPA exams are the Sword of Damocles for accountants and the sooner you get out from under it, the better. Stay at your current job and pass the exams. Worry about changing jobs later.
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May 27, 2013 12:15
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Vote Republican posted:In four months I landed $15k in pay raises despite my inability to grasp basic concepts like "showing up on time" and "blacula is not an actual word". It's not a word?????
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May 27, 2013 18:42
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chupacabraTERROR posted:It's not a word????? We go through ough life trusting our teachers, our parents, the media, our friends, the government, the local knights of columbus club, our mailboxes, Barack Obama, the Dodgers, Pharaoh Reagan I, Phil Jackson, the Dalai Lama, our "black friends". WE WERE SOLD A LIE. "BLACULA" IS IN FACT RACIST. OUR BLACK FRIENDS WERE NEITHER BLACK NOR FRIENDS. Accounting is pretty good though. At a small firm you can get away with anything apart from acting like a human being or smoking crack with your boss.
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May 28, 2013 04:20
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Vote Republican posted:What I took from your previous post is that you already work for a holding company or accounting firm of some sort and part of the company's work is payroll and compilations. God dammit I need to concentrate on studying. Got my expensive as hell Becker course back in February. Two months later and I've done two lectures, and one set of multiple choice. I think it's because it's available for 15ish more months and I haven't scheduled a test yet- haven't put the pressure of time constraints on myself. I'm temping for $13/hr right now- I really should get this test over with.
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May 28, 2013 23:44
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I'm looking at going back to school, basically a career change since I can't get into the field I want to. I'm looking at accounting, in part because I have a good head for numbers, and I've got about a year of experience doing bookkeeping/auditing for a small ag bank. I've just got a few questions. One of the local schools offers a one year bookkeeping certification which counts towards a two year "CPA degree" (the program is described as being everything I need to get a CPA short of the experience requirement). Is a two year worth it, or are firms looking for 4/6 year degrees? Who are the 'Big 4'? How viable is a career as a forensic accountant? At my time with the bank I did some work alongside a forensic accountant and it seemed pretty interesting.
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May 29, 2013 00:55
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Forensic accounting is a real job, but it sounds like you need a general overview of the industry. I suggest checking out the Vault Guide to Accounting from a library or career center.
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May 29, 2013 01:04
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YF19pilot posted:One of the local schools offers a one year bookkeeping certification which counts towards a two year "CPA degree" (the program is described as being everything I need to get a CPA short of the experience requirement). Is a two year worth it, or are firms looking for 4/6 year degrees? Doing a two year degree is OK so long as you can meet the 150 credit hour requirement that many (most?) states now require - if this will be in effect an MS degree, they should be cool with it (since they'll understand if you didn't do the accounting degree as a BS degree). quote:Who are the 'Big 4'? They're the four largest accounting firms in the world: PwC (formerly Pricewaterhouse Coopers), Deloitte, Ernst & Young and KPMG. Pretty much, if you get 18-24 months experience at one of those four (at least, although some may say getting to Senior or above is the necessary threshold), you tend to become golden for controllership or higher roles in private industry; alternatively, you can try to become a partner in one of the firms, although it is rather difficult and stressful for the decade plus that you'll be stuck climbing the mountain in the hope of doing so. quote:
It's a viable industry as there are different areas within forensics: divorce accounting, fraud accounting, legal accounting, bankruptcy accounting, some valuation work, etc. Here is the Wikipedia entry on it.
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May 29, 2013 01:52
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Moneyball posted:God dammit I need to concentrate on studying. Got my expensive as hell Becker course back in February. Two months later and I've done two lectures, and one set of multiple choice. I think it's because it's available for 15ish more months and I haven't scheduled a test yet- haven't put the pressure of time constraints on myself. You realize that passing one or two of those sections instantly puts you into employable category with a lot of firms, right? Something that should pay close to 2x what you're making currently.
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May 29, 2013 02:18
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Goddamnit One issue with Forensic accountancy is that you'll get calls at stupid times by the local Police Force to give testimony on Fraud cases at the stupidest dates. Had to release five statements to the courts today. Bloody headache is what it is.
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May 29, 2013 02:20
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