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Cybernetic Vermin posted:as we all know the quality of games is all about the programming, programmers are the rulers and backbone of the game development process, with a court of loyal, but unfortunately stupid, artists, designers and writers This is yyou : hurrrrrrrr hurrrrrr gurrrrr hurrrrrrrr
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Apr 8, 2013 08:26
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that's uncanny
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Apr 8, 2013 08:38
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vapid cutlery posted:It was being used in games years before wow which brings it back to "less talented" developers and "business logic" "less talented" developers = hobbyist addon developers "business logic" = rules of the game i.e. what players are allowed to do using the wow UI
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Apr 8, 2013 10:08
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Win8 Hetro Experie posted:which brings it back to "less talented" developers and "business logic" sort of a mystery to me why tcl isn't used more for this type of stuff. lua is really not simpler than any other language, but with a tcl dsl it really is possible to toss something together that requires less sperging in manuals to sequence a couple of events/actions together if you want to give map designers a sane way to spawn a couple of entities and such with a minimum of fuss i mean every config file should be a tcl dsl script
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Apr 8, 2013 15:00
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tef posted:fwiw: carmack came out and said scripting languages were a mistake for games. nothing is improved by having more lovely code by lovely devs. i.e if you're 'dumbing down' so that people who aren't programmers can write game logic, devs spend more time fixing it. nerds are obsessed with making every non-programmer program, but then they aren't non-programmers anymore, they're just bad programmers
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Apr 8, 2013 16:34
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nah, only business types and web "developers" want non-programmers to "program". the former have a legit need (the ability to address customer demands in realtime), the later are terrible.
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Apr 8, 2013 16:39
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i read a thing on database stuff the other day and they were really gung ho about having the business logic be done by non-devs so devs could concentrate on the backend i just kept thinking that it would make my life harder if they did, cause theyd keep asking for dumb features in whatever interface they were given
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Apr 8, 2013 16:44
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Shaggar posted:nah, only business types and web "developers" want non-programmers to "program". the former have a legit need (the ability to address customer demands in realtime), the later are terrible. eh, depends on your definition of programming. people who clearly aren't programmers get a lot of tasks done with for example access in problem areas that would otherwise require general programming. really, when non-programmers are able to do it it tends to get reclassified as non-programming
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Apr 8, 2013 16:54
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sounds like you need a software architect to stand in-between you and the business types
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Apr 8, 2013 16:54
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Carthag posted:i read a thing on database stuff the other day and they were really gung ho about having the business logic be done by non-devs so devs could concentrate on the backend users will always ask for more features, that's part of life. the thing is, you have to give them some mechanism for changing the way the system works because its a requirement for their job. giving them access to drools or something is a horrible idea because its gonna be beyond most of them, but having a more limited control panel is critical. if I had to change poo poo constantly for them i'd never get any work done, so I try to find a middle ground between giving them access to change the way the system works and limiting the amount of change they can do so they don't break everything. they need to be aware of what the changes will do so they don't get surprised by their changes. this makes them accountable for the changes they make instead of you. alternatively you can try to set aside a block of your time each day to deal with system change requests but that will never work cause every change they'll want is critical and must be done now because they promised the client. its better to say here are the changes you can make, here is how to do them, and here is what they will change. you can change them at any time. anything outside of those changes cannot be done. if you want more things to be changeable, write up the business case for it and we'll add it to the system. (this doesn't always work irl, but its really the best you can do)
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Apr 8, 2013 16:55
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:eh, depends on your definition of programming. people who clearly aren't programmers get a lot of tasks done with for example access in problem areas that would otherwise require general programming. really, when non-programmers are able to do it it tends to get reclassified as non-programming doing things like creating forms in access is definitely programming, but filling out the form would definitely not be programming. most business types would probably not be able to write a form in access nor should they be expected to.
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Apr 8, 2013 16:57
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i loved working with users who were thoroughly competent with excel, since a trivial escape hatch for a lot of features was to provide a csv export of specific data when sufficiently specialized analysis was required. csv import was always a bit trickier, but at times that was an ok solution too the users still weren't programmers in any usual sense, but if they can take the raw data and make their computer mangle stuff out of it i think we are getting close enough e: Shaggar posted:doing things like creating forms in access is definitely programming, but filling out the form would definitely not be programming. most business types would probably not be able to write a form in access nor should they be expected to. the only point i wanted to make was that making forms in access is something many people on the business side can easily learn to do if it helps them, just serving as a contrast to tossing lua into a complex system and pretending that anyone will be able to make useful use of it
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Apr 8, 2013 16:59
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:i loved working with users who were thoroughly competent with excel, since a trivial escape hatch for a lot of features was to provide a csv export of specific data when sufficiently specialized analysis was required. csv import was always a bit trickier, but at times that was an ok solution too we've started backing our excel users up to a ssas 2012 data cube for most of this. works p well
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Apr 8, 2013 19:49
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PHP 5.5 removes the easter egg GUID urls. Ironically this will make it easier to scan for unpatched PHP installs since you know that if http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?=PHPE9568F34-D428-11d2-A769-00AA001ACF42 works then the site has < 5.5 Of course if you're looking for an exploit in the PHP interpreter then you're trying too hard.
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Apr 8, 2013 22:43
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author mduigou Mon Apr 08 15:57:12 2013 -0700 (52 minutes ago) changeset 8071 a195f50617fa parent 7815 973a4c9b9935 parent 8070 7b4721e4edb4 child 8072 cc55bc49dda8 retain only vestigal randomSeed.  welp
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Apr 9, 2013 00:55
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thikn they meant to return a 4 sided dice
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Apr 9, 2013 03:24
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oh it's a diff
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Apr 9, 2013 03:44
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:as we all know the quality of games is all about the programming, programmers are the rulers and backbone of the game development process, with a court of loyal, but unfortunately stupid, artists, designers and writers
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Apr 9, 2013 04:17
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Win8 Hetro Experie posted:which brings it back to "less talented" developers and "business logic" lua wasn't really exposed to developers before the wow or garry's mod dude. what are you talking about
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Apr 9, 2013 04:18
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:really, when non-programmers are able to do it it tends to get reclassified as non-programming yes, this is because then you don't have to pay people as much. Hence the popularity of poo poo like salesforce.com
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Apr 9, 2013 04:21
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uG posted:thikn they meant to return a 4 sided dice it's an old xkcd joke in real life ! !!!! new LaffFactory().buildLaffs().create() right here, lemme tell ya
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Apr 9, 2013 04:29
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vapid cutlery posted:lua wasn't really exposed to developers before the wow or garry's mod dude. what are you talking about which developers are you referring to? the game developers who used lua "in games years before wow"? or the new lua people who got introduced to lua as hobbyist addon developers in wow and are now pushing for lua's adoption in other businesses because lua worked so well in blizzard's game (except it didn't really)?
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Apr 9, 2013 05:09
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sorry in my post i meant to say "users"
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Apr 9, 2013 05:18
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which just brings me back to my original point
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Apr 9, 2013 05:18
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Zaxxon posted:salesforce.com Kill me.
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Apr 9, 2013 09:10
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No hardware. No software. No boundaries.
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Apr 9, 2013 09:10
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trex eaterofcadrs posted:we've started backing our excel users up to a ssas 2012 data cube for most of this. works p well Excel on top of MATLAB and Oracle is God's own operating system if you number for a living
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Apr 9, 2013 12:23
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vapid cutlery posted:which just brings me back to my original point so you're just fine with WoW players making their first lua addon advocating lua and writing addons in lua as how they should be developing software in their day jobs? hey, while we're at it, let's reward these lua people with meaningless achievements and points too. if WoW sometimes feels like work then work should also feel like WoW, for balance you see or what if you need a manager to herd your World of Business Forms addon modders? just look for someone with 80 levels worth of leadership experience in a WoW raiding guild, easiest hire ever no. change lua's syntax until you can't smell the taint of WoW anymore or burn the whole thing to the ground
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Apr 9, 2013 13:50
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what about second life extensions
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Apr 9, 2013 14:37
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it's not kosher if it's not open sauce
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Apr 9, 2013 17:25
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Use guile
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Apr 9, 2013 18:10
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Nomnom Cookie posted:Use guile I'm as big a lisp dork as anyone, but if you're seriously considering sticking a scripting language into your system to let non-programmers try to program then you should probably go with javascript which at least has a large amount of documentation targeted towards idiots.
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Apr 9, 2013 18:15
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ultramiraculous posted:No hardware. No software. No boundaries. no stored procedures, no joins, no debugger.
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Apr 9, 2013 18:28
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Police Academy III posted:I'm as big a lisp dork as anyone, but if you're seriously considering sticking a scripting language into your system to let non-programmers try to program then you should probably go with javascript which at least has a large amount of documentation targeted towards idiots. can we put a scripting language in and only let programmers use it?
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Apr 9, 2013 18:30
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i already told you tcl is the right answer here. god.
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Apr 9, 2013 18:34
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Zaxxon posted:can we put a scripting language in and only let programmers use it? Introducing Wow⋆APL - The Power of APL In World Of Warcraft
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Apr 9, 2013 18:35
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i love array programming above all other models, if it wasn't for the best designed, bets implemented, and most used array programming language of today costing ridiculous amounts of money. apl will rise again.
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Apr 9, 2013 18:37
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Zaxxon posted:can we put a scripting language in and only let programmers use it? I guess, but then you should probably just use whatever is going to interface best with your underlying system and give you decent performance which may very well be LUA unfortunately.
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Apr 9, 2013 18:38
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use squirrel instead
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Apr 9, 2013 20:40
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wow, i think that is the first language in the thread i have genuinely never heard of, and it looks entirely uninteresting
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Apr 9, 2013 21:32
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