The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread.

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grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

roomforthetuna posted:

Or rather, people will just pay it because people are terrible at acting upon deferred costs, so the peak price will just keep on going up, and the electric companies will laugh all the way to the bank because no way are they spending all that lovely money on actually improving their infrastructure. The cap on this rising price will be when the apparent running cost of EVs become sufficiently impractical that nobody buys them any more.

Not that I'm a pessimist or anything.

Transformers are expensive, and normally last many decades. Rather than pre-emptively replace them to avoid unplanned customer outages, it's much cheaper to just wait until they fail to probably eke a few more years of service out of them, and then replace them only after they blow up. Sure, customers may be without power for a couple days, but a couple days of power bill is negligible in the scheme of things, so it's no big deal. For the pocos, at least. Would suck to be you and your neighbors stuck with electric cars you can't charge, though.

# ? Apr 13, 2013 22:36

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# ? May 15, 2024 07:46

InterceptorV8: Mar 9, 2004; Loaded up and trucking.We gonna do what they say cant be done.

Godholio posted:

If you live out of gas stations on a road trip you're throwing money away. I hit at least one grocery store every day when I'm on the road.

The only thing cheaper at the stop and robs I stop at are those energy drinks.

Best thing for a road trip is those AZ ice teas 12 packs. God drat I love me some ice tea and lemonade.

# ? Apr 13, 2013 22:42

Suqit: Apr 25, 2005; Stars Stripes Freedom Jozy
(Jozy not pictured here)

Ford has an app already that you can use to have your car charge during off peak hours. And with PHEV you still have gas as a backup.

It's not as difficult as y'all are making it out to be.

# ? Apr 13, 2013 22:55

InterceptorV8: Mar 9, 2004; Loaded up and trucking.We gonna do what they say cant be done.

Suqit posted:

Ford has an app already that you can use to have your car charge during off peak hours. And with PHEV you still have gas as a backup.

It's not as difficult as y'all are making it out to be.

Did you get your car yet? Or have you prewired your home yet? How did that go?

# ? Apr 13, 2013 23:07

Suqit: Apr 25, 2005; Stars Stripes Freedom Jozy
(Jozy not pictured here)

InterceptorV8 posted:

Did you get your car yet? Or have you prewired your home yet? How did that go?

I still don't have a build date or a VIN.

Haven't wired the house up yet. Our utility has a 50% rebate on wiring and a charger but the funds are depleted right now. I'm gonna try to hold out for when that program is back up.

# ? Apr 13, 2013 23:17

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

Suqit posted:

Ford has an app already that you can use to have your car charge during off peak hours. And with PHEV you still have gas as a backup.

It's not as difficult as y'all are making it out to be.

Nissan too, well their app just has a one off timer, you have to use the in-car to set up a regular schedual.

# ? Apr 14, 2013 00:08

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

Interesting, if it goes through: possible change of the federal incentive from a $7500 tax credit to a $10k rebate at time of sale.

This would definitely swing me over heavily into the Volt, Focus Electric, or RAV4 Electric since those are the only ones I'd be willing to own longer-term. Though with another $2500 off the capitalized cost, a leased Leaf would be ridiculously cheap...

# ? Apr 14, 2013 01:59

Blooot: Mar 19, 2001

grover posted:

Even invoice is $47800 on those so something was definitely up; someone took an $18k loss on that, and I'm guessing most of it was the california taxpayer.

Shame the economics just doesn't work out yet. A normal Rav4 costs literally half what Rav4 EV does ($23k vs $48); at 12000 miles per year, the break-even point is like 15 years but even that's not really true because you'd need to replace the Rav4's batteries.

The point was that no one is paying $48K for these he just walked into a dealer and bought one this way, so the payback is way faster (if that's what you're after). They were compliance cars and Toyota needs to get rid of them somehow. My co-worker mentioned that the price dropped $500 more two weeks after he bought.

# ? Apr 14, 2013 03:38

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Elephanthead posted:

So you buy gas in gallon jugs and pour them in? Do you have a veggie burner? This is about "fueling the car" not your goon gut.

That's funny, you said it was useless to have charging stations at stores. gently caress off.

# ? Apr 14, 2013 04:28

angryrobots: Mar 31, 2005

grover posted:

I've been saying that for years. I ran detailed calculations in a D&D thread a few years ago and concluded that although the impact on US power production is a rather small % (occurring mostly post-peak), the real issue will be impact to the residential grid, which will see loads more than double when EV cars become ubiquitous. The worst time will be the late afternoon/early evening when everyone gets home and immediately plugs their cars in so they can drive somewhere else.

The only real cure is investing in our power infrastructure NOW because the pocos aren't going to be able to replace it all in the handful of years after EV reaches a tipping point. Sadly, what will probably happen instead is "smart" meters will be installed that charge people such astronomical costs for "peak" usage that it essentially extorts everyone to put their car chargers on a timer. And if you need to drive to the store or go out to eat or pick up little jimmy from soccer practice? Sorry, you're poo poo out of luck with a depleted car because it hasn't started charging yet.

No, the real cure is getting people to think about their usage. If you were living in BFE and only had a generator for power, you couldn't run every appliance in your home at the same time. Doing that is a luxury, and if that's what you want to do, it costs the POCO. Most utilities do not generate the power that they sell, so they have a power bill too, and they definitely do have to pay a demand surcharge.

roomforthetuna posted:

Or rather, people will just pay it because people are terrible at acting upon deferred costs, so the peak price will just keep on going up, and the electric companies will laugh all the way to the bank because no way are they spending all that lovely money on actually improving their infrastructure. The cap on this rising price will be when the apparent running cost of EVs become sufficiently impractical that nobody buys them any more.

Not that I'm a pessimist or anything.

People are terrible about acting on deferred cost, especially as regards electricity, because the average consumer already doesn't understand the correlation between what appliances they use and how often, and how expensive their power bill is. How many people have I talked to who think that we just estimate their bill every month! You can try to educate people, but if they refuse to learn, then you have to hit them in the wallet. See my above comment about demand surcharges - the profit margin for utilities is not a diagonal line.

grover posted:

Transformers are expensive, and normally last many decades. Rather than pre-emptively replace them to avoid unplanned customer outages, it's much cheaper to just wait until they fail to probably eke a few more years of service out of them, and then replace them only after they blow up. Sure, customers may be without power for a couple days, but a couple days of power bill is negligible in the scheme of things, so it's no big deal. For the pocos, at least. Would suck to be you and your neighbors stuck with electric cars you can't charge, though.

It's not just transformers, it is service wire (which may be direct buried, and under god knows what), distribution circuits (which in some areas are as big as you can reasonably go - I know a guy in texas who has 795 AAC leaving the substation and they still have to put in planned rolling outages), and substation reclosers/regulators, not to mention MW transformers that are hahahahahaha expensive.

Why should the utility subsidize what is essentially inefficient bad behavior? If consumers want to go full bore for two hours a day and expect the POCO to keep up, well fine but it is going to cost you.

# ? Apr 14, 2013 13:22

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

angryrobots posted:

No, the real cure is getting people to think about their usage. If you were living in BFE and only had a generator for power, you couldn't run every appliance in your home at the same time. Doing that is a luxury, and if that's what you want to do, it costs the POCO. Most utilities do not generate the power that they sell, so they have a power bill too, and they definitely do have to pay a demand surcharge.

People are terrible about acting on deferred cost, especially as regards electricity, because the average consumer already doesn't understand the correlation between what appliances they use and how often, and how expensive their power bill is. How many people have I talked to who think that we just estimate their bill every month! You can try to educate people, but if they refuse to learn, then you have to hit them in the wallet. See my above comment about demand surcharges - the profit margin for utilities is not a diagonal line.

It's not just transformers, it is service wire (which may be direct buried, and under god knows what), distribution circuits (which in some areas are as big as you can reasonably go - I know a guy in texas who has 795 AAC leaving the substation and they still have to put in planned rolling outages), and substation reclosers/regulators, not to mention MW transformers that are hahahahahaha expensive.

Why should the utility subsidize what is essentially inefficient bad behavior? If consumers want to go full bore for two hours a day and expect the POCO to keep up, well fine but it is going to cost you.

NEC requires most houses to have a 150A or 200A panel in order to prevent overloads from lighting the house on fire. My local power company, however, thought it was just fine to sell multiple 200A services to me and my neighbors fed from a single 25kVA (104A) transformer. And undersized the neighborhood feeder to the point where had had disco lights on hot days from the recloser opening every 5 minutes when all the AC units kicked back on. We see this over and over and over again. I think we've got a right to bitch about undersized infrastructure.

And the estimated bill thing comes because that's how a lot of pocos work- they bill in advance. They don't bill customers for electricity used, they bill electricity for what they estimate the consumer will use in the next month, adjusted by the measured consumption from the previous month. Ends up wildly over/under estimating for some people and leading others to make horrible false assumptions about their electrical use.

grover fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Apr 14, 2013

# ? Apr 14, 2013 13:52

angryrobots: Mar 31, 2005

Some utilities may undersize more than they should (we don't) and that's not right.

But either way, it is economically impossible to build a system that is capable for all (or even most) of its consumers to pull the full rated load of their service at the same time. Even if you somehow built a system this way, you'd probably be in the red just on line losses from the massive underutilized transformers. And the problem isn't EV coming online, it's electric water heaters, clothes dryers, HVAC, plasma TVs, etc. People are just going to have to be more aware about HOW and WHEN they use electricity.

That is a separate issue from an undersized service and/or transformer that can cause interruption of regular service in normal conditions.

edit: I know some utilities estimate. We don't, never have, never will. Yet I still hear about it, not because the consumer had service at some point with another POCO, but because they genuinely do not understand how they are billed for electricity usage. They honestly believe that we pull a number out of thin air and then bill them for it.

angryrobots fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Apr 14, 2013

# ? Apr 14, 2013 14:16

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

angryrobots posted:

But either way, it is economically impossible to build a system that is capable for all (or even most) of its consumers to pull the full rated load of their service at the same time. Even if you somehow built a system this way, you'd probably be in the red just on line losses from the massive underutilized transformers. And the problem isn't EV coming online, it's electric water heaters, clothes dryers, HVAC, plasma TVs, etc. People are just going to have to be more aware about HOW and WHEN they use electricity.

Yeah, you gotta play the % game and draw the line at a certain point where the chance of all that stuff turning on simultanously is insignificant. But fast chargers simultaneously charging are going to put all those other loads to shame. It's going to roughly double total domestic demand, which is going to horribly stress the residential grid.

the EIA's electricity numbers:

code:

Category	Appliance		Fraction
-----------     --------------------    --------
HVAC		Air Conditioning	16.1%
		Electric Heating	10.2%
		Fans, Circulators	3.3%
		Other HVAC		1.7%
Kitchen		Refrigerators		13.7%
		Freezers		3.4%
		Dishwashers		2.5%
		Range Tops		2.8%
		Ovens, Coffee Makers	4.2%
Electronics	TVs			2.9%
		PCs, Printers		2.0%
		TV Peripherals		1.4%
		Other Electronics	0.9%
Water		Water Heating		8.8%
Light		Lighting		8.9%
Clothes		Washer			0.9%
		Dryer			5.8%
Other		Other Equipment		2.5%
		Other End Uses		7.7%

A typical EV/PHEV driver is going to get home and plug it in and recharge about 20kWh (83A for 1hr or 21A for 4hrs). But that load demand isn't spread out, it's concentrated in the early evening; the same time AC units are on near peak loads, lights & TVs & computers are on, and people are cooking dinner, doing laundry, taking showers, etc. And so are all their neighbors which share the same grid with them. When you've got 5 houses sharing a 50kVA (208A) transformer sized to just-barely-not-blow-up at previous peak loads, and add two cars recharging in each house, that's a problem, even at slower charging rates. Pocos can't just tell people not to use power in the evening and hand-wave it away as a customer problem, because it's going to be an actual real problem when pole pigs start popping like fireworks and reclosers lock out.

And yes, you're right- lines, breakers and switchgear are going to need to be upgraded, too. Which is why it's so frustrating to see so little concern coming from within the utility industry. When you do, please bury the lines this time so we don't lose power for a week+ every time a big storm hits. TIA!

grover fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Apr 14, 2013

# ? Apr 14, 2013 14:48

angryrobots: Mar 31, 2005

Overhead lines are a lot easier to upgrade! Not to mention quite reliable until people plant trees all around them and then bitch when you try to cut right of way....but I digress. I think they (the ones who make the decisions) are concerned about it, it's just a question of how much/when to make changes. Pile a bunch of money into upgrades that look good on paper, and if you don't hit it on the head (under or over upgraded) and the utility can lose its rear end. How much of a blanket rate hike do you really think people will accept? The 'smart meter' is really the only way to make it fair for everyone. Of course everyone uses energy when they get home from work and that is unavoidable....but you could wait to dry clothes, install a digital programmable thermostat (EVERYONE needs one of these), not leave every light in the house on, and think about energy use when buying new appliances.....and when buying a house. Two adults and two children don't need a 3500 sq foot McMansion with 2+ low SEER HVAC units, but if that is what you must have, then it is going to cost you dearly for energy.

The problem is people who are incredibly wasteful without even realizing it. That is where all the existing power capacity is going. I'm a big proponent of gas for the high demand appliances (if we're ignoring the political minefield of fracking and just talking about what is efficient).

Do you suspect that everyone, or most, will have fast chargers installed?

# ? Apr 14, 2013 16:29

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

angryrobots posted:

Do you suspect that everyone, or most, will have fast chargers installed?

Define fast. If we're talking about level 2 equipment, which will charge an EV in under 8 hours, yes most buyers will have one - but it's roughly equivalent to the electrical draw of a stove. If you mean the fast level 3 chargers that will recharge a car in under an hour, those aren't even compatible with any home service yet.

# ? Apr 14, 2013 17:21

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

IOwnCalculus posted:

Define fast. If we're talking about level 2 equipment, which will charge an EV in under 8 hours, yes most buyers will have one - but it's roughly equivalent to the electrical draw of a stove. If you mean the fast level 3 chargers that will recharge a car in under an hour, those aren't even compatible with any home service yet.

Stoves are on thermostats, though; they may be "on" for several hours, but it's at low duty factor like a mig welder; the actual stove/range heating element is rarely actually on after it reaches temperature. Car charges, on the other hand, will be always-on the whole time during charging.

As EV batteries get higher in capacity, chargers will have to charge faster as well. You might be able to charge a PHEV Prius with a few miles EV range overnight with a 15A plug, but it would take 28 hours to charge a RAV4 EV with a 1500W charger, and I suspect capacities will soon get to the point where a 30A/240V is as slow a charger as you can get away with and a good % people going through the effort of having a new charger circuit installed will go with as big a charger as they can get away with. Get home at 5 and little jimmy has to be at soccer practice by 6, you know!

grover fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Apr 14, 2013

# ? Apr 14, 2013 17:35

angryrobots: Mar 31, 2005

Maybe the technology will increase such that you could have two batteries, and somehow swap them daily, letting the used one have 24 hrs to recharge. Or have a charging station with built in storage capacity that could discharge into your mobile car battery?

If the demand is for higher capacity batteries, then somehow the charging needs to be spread out over time and not continually compressed into the static amount of time between daily commutes.

angryrobots fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Apr 14, 2013

# ? Apr 14, 2013 17:43

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Or... the power companies can upgrade residential power distribution infrastructure to meet the demands of their customers.

# ? Apr 14, 2013 17:49

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

grover posted:

Or... the power companies can upgrade residential power distribution infrastructure.

And the oil companies can cut their profit margins in half and we'll get cheap gas again. And Congress will pass a balanced budget without putting thousands on the streets, and Israel will make peace with the Muslim world and treat Palestinians like human beings and the F-35B will be cut to pay for the resumption of F-22 construction and Teraflex will give me a $5000 gift card.

# ? Apr 14, 2013 17:52

Suqit: Apr 25, 2005; Stars Stripes Freedom Jozy
(Jozy not pictured here)

A lot of people with PHEV already charge during off peak hours. I don't know why y'all keep ignoring this. Besides, we aren't going to have mass adoption of them overnight. It will happen gradually, and the supply will rise to meet the demand. I'm sure there will be some bumps but its not going to be the end of the world either.

# ? Apr 14, 2013 17:56

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

Absolutely agreed. I also think that the average EV buyer tends to be far more in tune with their electricity costs than the average person, especially when charging off peak can be 30 to 50 percent cheaper. If/when I get my EV I would never charge on peak unless absolutely necessary.

# ? Apr 14, 2013 23:38

angryrobots: Mar 31, 2005

If battery tech continues on the current trend, I think that is a perfectly reasonable way to look at it. Plotting new EV usage against more efficient appliances sold and smaller houses being built/old houses being remodeled as more efficient would probably net something around zero.

The only hitch would be a sudden bump in technology, or automaker building a more usable and/or cost effective EV that appeals to the unwashed masses. So I guess we'll see!

# ? Apr 14, 2013 23:50

Mortanis: Dec 28, 2005; It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.; College Slice

I'm seriously considering a Nissan Leaf, and have a few questions I'm hoping some people - hopefully existing owners - can help me with. Forgive a heavy dose of ignorance here.

The car comes with no charg station at all, correct? I'm not an electrician, and don't know any, so I'd want the $2k pro installation one and hope my landlords don't freak out. Unless installing new 240 isn't too hard and hiring a local contractor is cheaper - though the service might be worth it. My garage won't support a car (was renovated into a room before I moved in), and there's no place to stick an outlet, so I'm really not sure how to get a charging station anywhere near my driveway.

This is so bloody first world, but... how are the cupholders? I can't see them in the 360 interior view. My Mazda Protege had them recessed under the dash, so you can't fit anything but a can. Since this would be my commuter car it's a concern. Not a big one.

Would I need the SV to take advantage of public charging stations? I guess I'm not sure if the faster stations can also trickle down into the slower (3.3 I think - the SV is 6.6) charger.

# ? May 5, 2013 20:06

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

Mortanis posted:

The car comes with no charg station at all, correct? I'm not an electrician, and don't know any, so I'd want the $2k pro installation one and hope my landlords don't freak out. Unless installing new 240 isn't too hard and hiring a local contractor is cheaper - though the service might be worth it. My garage won't support a car (was renovated into a room before I moved in), and there's no place to stick an outlet, so I'm really not sure how to get a charging station anywhere near my driveway.

It comes with a normal three prong outlet plug and ten or so feet of cable. That's the level one trickle charge that does about five miles an hour. The one you need an electrician for is the level two and does fifteen miles an hour. I never bothered with the level two since I just rent the house.

Mortanis posted:

This is so bloody first world, but... how are the cupholders? I can't see them in the 360 interior view. My Mazda Protege had them recessed under the dash, so you can't fit anything but a can. Since this would be my commuter car it's a concern. Not a big one.

As you can see from this photo of a can I found in the trash, there's a decent amount of room. There is a bit of overhang, but you have to have a drink about 2-2.5 cans tall to hit it.

Mortanis posted:

Would I need the SV to take advantage of public charging stations? I guess I'm not sure if the faster stations can also trickle down into the slower (3.3 I think - the SV is 6.6) charger.

Most charging stations are going to be level two chargers which all models support just fine. The level three thirty minute quick charge is the one that only the higher models have, but the chargers also arn't available everywhere.

# ? May 5, 2013 21:57

Mortanis: Dec 28, 2005; It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.; College Slice

Beautiful, you're a life saver. That makes a lot more sense now. I do a 40 mile commute each day without errands, so I can probably just about get by with the trickle charge. There's a few actual stations near my home and work as well.

Thank you!

# ? May 5, 2013 22:14

Elephanthead: Sep 11, 2008; Toilet Rascal

The one benefit of the L2 is the charging timer is a lot more accurate. At least with a 2012. I don't know if the 2013 is any better with its L1 estimates. If you get the upgraded charger then it is a no brainier to get a L2 installed.

# ? May 6, 2013 16:36

Sinestro: Oct 31, 2010; The perfect day needs the perfect set of wheels.

coolskillrex remix posted:

\
http://www.gasbuddy.com/map_gas_prices.aspx?z=1&lat=37.382813&long=-119.281250&ft=A&tl=48

How does Fresno get a dot but not Sacramento. We have 2 times more people.

edit: gently caress should have read thread first

# ? May 11, 2013 23:14

eeenmachine: Feb 2, 2004; BUY MORE CRABS

I thought I'd venture into AI today and see if there was any electric discussion and was happy to see a dedicated thread! I've been driving pure electrics for about 3 years and around 40k miles or so. I own a 2010 Tesla Roadster 2.5, a 2012 Nissan Leaf and a 2012 Tesla Model S 85kw. Let me know if you have any questions about my experiences!

Edit: I also drove from San Diego to San Francisco and back last month in the Model S with very little inconvenience!

# ? May 12, 2013 22:06

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

Does it ever get old smoking just about everything from the lights in near-complete silence?

# ? May 13, 2013 10:35

eeenmachine: Feb 2, 2004; BUY MORE CRABS

KozmoNaut posted:

Does it ever get old smoking just about everything from the lights in near-complete silence?

It certainly does not.

# ? May 13, 2013 11:50

Elephanthead: Sep 11, 2008; Toilet Rascal

KozmoNaut posted:

Does it ever get old smoking just about everything from the lights in near-complete silence?

Even a leaf can do this in normal driving condition, i.e. not trying to go to jail. I can't imagine how much faster a non econo electric is. Best part is how silent it is like you aren't even trying. Embarrassing a manual transmission 3 series is the best by making them use the shoulder in a lane that ends. They never slow down or admit defeat to a leaf. Fixed gears are the best gears.

# ? May 13, 2013 14:31

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

Elephanthead posted:

Even a leaf can do this in normal driving condition, i.e. not trying to go to jail. I can't imagine how much faster a non econo electric is. Best part is how silent it is like you aren't even trying. Embarrassing a manual transmission 3 series is the best by making them use the shoulder in a lane that ends. They never slow down or admit defeat to a leaf. Fixed gears are the best gears.

I've only ever driven low-power electric vehicles myself, but even a Citro�n C-Zero (which has even less power than a Leaf) surprises people away from the lights.

However, I have been a passenger in a Tesla Roadster on a number of occasions. Trust me on this, you have no idea what it's like before you experience it for yourself, it's absolutely ridiculous.

From a passenger's point of view, I had to go all the way to an Audi R8 V10 to get the same sensation, although the Ariel Atom got pretty drat close.

# ? May 13, 2013 14:56

eeenmachine: Feb 2, 2004; BUY MORE CRABS

KozmoNaut posted:

I've only ever driven low-power electric vehicles myself, but even a Citro�n C-Zero (which has even less power than a Leaf) surprises people away from the lights.

However, I have been a passenger in a Tesla Roadster on a number of occasions. Trust me on this, you have no idea what it's like before you experience it for yourself, it's absolutely ridiculous.

From a passenger's point of view, I had to go all the way to an Audi R8 V10 to get the same sensation, although the Ariel Atom got pretty drat close.

I think the sensation of speed is multiplied when there is no warning and the car seems to be expending no effort. When you hear a load roaring engine and the jerking of a transmission you almost always expect more speed than you get.

# ? May 13, 2013 15:05

Suqit: Apr 25, 2005; Stars Stripes Freedom Jozy
(Jozy not pictured here)

Finally got notice that our Fusion Energi was built on May 8th and is on its way to us. We should have it by the end of the month at the latest.

Got a VIN and a window sticker too. I'm officially getting excited.

Also was happy to see that Bosch has come out with a Level 2 charger for only $450, a good $400 bucks cheaper than most.

# ? May 13, 2013 17:58

Coredump: Dec 1, 2002

eeenmachine posted:

I thought I'd venture into AI today and see if there was any electric discussion and was happy to see a dedicated thread! I've been driving pure electrics for about 3 years and around 40k miles or so. I own a 2010 Tesla Roadster 2.5, a 2012 Nissan Leaf and a 2012 Tesla Model S 85kw. Let me know if you have any questions about my experiences!

Edit: I also drove from San Diego to San Francisco and back last month in the Model S with very little inconvenience!

What would you say to all the naysayers that say electric vehicles don't make sense, aren't ready yet, too little range, etc?

# ? May 13, 2013 18:06

Elephanthead: Sep 11, 2008; Toilet Rascal

Coredump posted:

What would you say to all the naysayers that say electric vehicles don't make sense, aren't ready yet, too little range, etc?

I tell them they are right because the only car argument worth pursuing is Mustang or Camaro.

# ? May 13, 2013 18:51

eeenmachine: Feb 2, 2004; BUY MORE CRABS

Coredump posted:

What would you say to all the naysayers that say electric vehicles don't make sense, aren't ready yet, too little range, etc?

They are usually converts after their first ride in the Model S.

# ? May 13, 2013 18:53

ExecuDork: Feb 25, 2007; We might be fucked, sir.; Fallen Rib

Does this mean you are evangelical with your electric vehicles?

If you're grabbing people, stuffing them into your car, then launching hard from every red light on a long street, then I am intrigued by your ideas and interested in your newsletter.

# ? May 13, 2013 20:30

eeenmachine: Feb 2, 2004; BUY MORE CRABS

ExecuDork posted:

Does this mean you are evangelical with your electric vehicles?

If you're grabbing people, stuffing them into your car, then launching hard from every red light on a long street, then I am intrigued by your ideas and interested in your newsletter.

I'm always spitting out facts to random people who ask everywhere I go. The rides are mostly friends and family.

# ? May 13, 2013 23:20

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# ? May 15, 2024 07:46

Madurai: Jun 26, 2012

eeenmachine posted:

I'm always spitting out facts to random people who ask everywhere I go. The rides are mostly friends and family.

I've begun to sound a little like a sales rep, too--even when I'm not wearing my Tesla shirt. It's easy to do.

# ? May 14, 2013 01:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread.

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