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Hard NOP Life posted:In what context? I think he's talking about this: http://nickknowlson.com/blog/2013/04/16/why-maybe-is-better-than-null/ (i didn't actually read it though) The idea is that having a type system that allows you to optionally tack on null as a valid value to any type is better than having to check against it all the time, which is pretty obviously right imo.
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Apr 19, 2013 20:12
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Condiv posted:i see this argument more and more recently, but is there anyone here except shaggar and maybe tbc who thinks null was not a huge mistake? i read hoare's "billion dollar mistake" paper and he says that tools like prefix are the solution, but microsoft doesn't run prefix until after they're code complete, something i know because i've been responsible for enabling it. if they ran it all the time it would kill their dev momentum
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Apr 19, 2013 20:24
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nulls are just annoying because they often don't fail loudly also needs to be treated as a 3rd state sql_true_false_null_table.png
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Apr 19, 2013 20:46
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nulls fail loudly when you try to do something to a null
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Apr 19, 2013 20:52
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Shaggar posted:nulls fail loudly when you try to do something to a null failing p-lang style
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Apr 19, 2013 20:58
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Police Academy III posted:I think he's talking about this: http://nickknowlson.com/blog/2013/04/16/why-maybe-is-better-than-null/ (i didn't actually read it though) Cool article and I agree 100%, it's a shame that Scala had to keep nulls. I just ran into this when working with the 3rd assignment for the cousera class.
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Apr 19, 2013 21:58
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ultramiraculous posted:pretty sure he's the guy who brought "skeuomorphism" into the mainstream conversation, making all ios talk just awful. hi i'm john gruber - anthropomorphic brushed metal says something - yankess rule - republicans suck - weekly paul krugman link - i promise this negative news about apple isn't true
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Apr 19, 2013 23:23
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Shaggar posted:nulls fail loudly when you try to do something to a null imagine i've copy pasted something you said about checked exceptions, except i've removed the context so it looks like you're talking about nulls. anyway, whatever, it's a nice java troll thing where they'd rather have checked exceptions than proper typing for nulls 
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Apr 19, 2013 23:50
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Toady posted:hi i'm john gruber thats p. much yospos minus the programming thread
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Apr 19, 2013 23:54
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yeah im not attached to null or anything, but how would you handle uninitialized objects?
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Apr 19, 2013 23:59
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Shaggar posted:yeah im not attached to null or anything, but how would you handle uninitialized objects? just don't allow it? if an object doesn't need to exist then why give it a name
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Apr 20, 2013 00:25
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if feeling sensible: instead of nulls sprinkle null objects everywhere if feeling unreasonable: AbstractOptionalObjectHandleFactoryStrategyInjectionStrategyInjector
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Apr 20, 2013 00:36
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Shaggar posted:yeah im not attached to null or anything, but how would you handle uninitialized objects? what do you mean (i'm not too familiar with java and how object initialization works)
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Apr 20, 2013 01:11
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null is a dumb bullshit thing and used a lot in ruby, which pretty much explains that it's a dumb bullshit thing
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Apr 20, 2013 01:21
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 seriously
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Apr 20, 2013 01:24
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yaoi prophet posted:
they released a server jre for people that don't want auto-update, applets, and some other stuff. dunno if it's ask toolbar free too. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/server-jre7-downloads-1931105.html
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Apr 20, 2013 01:33
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Hard NOP Life posted:Cool article and I agree 100%, it's a shame that Scala had to keep nulls. I just ran into this when working with the 3rd assignment for the cousera class. i don't think there was any plausible way to retain java inter-op without null scala does, however, give you all the tools you need to avoid dealing with nulls (Option, Either, collect(), pattern matching)
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Apr 20, 2013 01:57
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Shaggar posted:yeah im not attached to null or anything, but how would you handle uninitialized objects? surely uninitialised objects would become Nothing using what that guy suggested?
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Apr 20, 2013 02:45
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Shaggar posted:yeah im not attached to null or anything, but how would you handle uninitialized objects? to deal with uninitialized objects you would have to make accessing them a compile time error in all cases, not just some like it is now.
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Apr 20, 2013 02:52
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i didn't read the article. i guess its basically like Nullable<?> in c#? re: initialization i guess you could just require all fields to be initialized in each constructor and any that shouldn't have default values should be Nullables
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Apr 20, 2013 02:55
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Nullable more like Gullible
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Apr 20, 2013 02:58
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i don't think there was any plausible way to retain java inter-op without null Option is a really good argument for functional constructs imo
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Apr 20, 2013 05:07
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i was thinking this gif might cause a few chuckles around here cheers~
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Apr 20, 2013 06:57
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im offended personally
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Apr 20, 2013 07:13
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Shaggar posted:nulls fail loudly when you try to do something to a null not if it's objc and nil
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Apr 20, 2013 08:37
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Toady posted:i was thinking this gif might cause a few chuckles around here 
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Apr 20, 2013 08:37
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it's cool how this thread got taken over by noobs in the last 6 months
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Apr 20, 2013 08:38
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drat, bro, null is like,, what is null anyways? It's like nothing, and infinite, and like infinite nothingness, and how do we handle it? Omg...
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Apr 20, 2013 08:38
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what if WE'RE the null? dude
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Apr 20, 2013 08:44
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Toady posted:what if WE'RE the null? dude your brain is, at least
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Apr 20, 2013 08:45
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what me worry? i'm jsut 'positively challenged'
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Apr 20, 2013 09:52
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vapid cutlery posted:it's cool how this thread got taken over by noobs in the last 6 months no it's just new people asking the same old questions
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Apr 20, 2013 10:27
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this thread is almost a year old
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Apr 20, 2013 10:30
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tef posted:no it's just new people asking the same old questions hey what does everyone think about nesting in multiline comments?
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Apr 20, 2013 19:33
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tef posted:this thread is almost a year old this it guys, time to figure out the best PL and wrap it up
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Apr 20, 2013 21:34
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FORTH for people who think LISP is too pragmatic
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Apr 20, 2013 21:55
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its php
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Apr 20, 2013 21:58
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lisp obviously don't like it? change it to be how you like! at runtime why not! 
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Apr 20, 2013 22:59
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http://this-plt-life.tumblr.com
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Apr 21, 2013 00:07
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logically, the only choice is prolog
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Apr 21, 2013 00:12
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